DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum We need New Linebackers..atleast 3 new starters!

Look folks..I think we have 1 of the "worst" LB crews in the Entire NFL...absolutely abysmal...

Our DL is set..with Williams, Rodgers, S.Smith, R.Smith, and Lenoard(and anyone else I missed) our 3-4 DL personnel is in place...were golden there.

but our LB just stink!

over the last 19 games...the only LB on this team that still deserves to keep his job after this season is Dqwell Jackson...he has a nose for the ball and the only 1 who plays bigger than he is and isn't scared to put a hit on a ball carrier!

Andra Davis needs to go
Wimbely it just hasn't worked out
Willie your too old

Yes thats right I said Wimbely...that kid is God Awful against the Run..I watch the Giants OL McKenzie "Blow" Wimbely off the ball a few times in the running game last night. Jacobs had a hole the size of a bus to run through while Wimbely was "Knocked completely out of the picture"

Wimbely also overruns running plays and is way out of position to do anything but watch from behind.

we gave up 181 yards rushing last night...had the Giants stuck to the run and not even bothered passing last night, they may have beaten us...it was obviosuly our awful LB could not stop them.

but our LB just stink...they are not good run stoppers and they are below average pass rushers..they are a big reason we don't get enough pressure on QB and we cna't stop the run.

Im so sick of watching teams run for 150 yards a game against us...this is why we haven't made the playoffs and why we can't win close games...because we can't stop the run.

To fix this problem

1. Leon Hall Takes Wimbely's place as the full-time Starting OLB
2. Keep Jackson
3. Use our 2nd rd Draft pick on a ILB..a "starting" quality guy...we need another ILB
4. Leon Willaims should see more time at ILB and OLB..especailly on passing downs

5. sign a veteran FA mid-tier LB...a guy who can start.
6. Beau Bell should be fighting for the starting line up next year.

But wimbely..My biggest beef is with him..he just isn't panning out here...he is a one-trick poney...he has only 1 move, he is not getting pressure on the QB, he is "God Awful" against the run...still hasn't learned to seal his side...even Old Man Mcginest(whos pass rush skills have tailed off) is still a very good run stopper only because he seals his side and plays smart...wimbely just gets blown out of the play.

its time to admit the mistake..Wimbely was a mistake...we need to go in another direction

our LB core will be our undoing if we don't fix it...Wimbely will never be a "good" OLB..he will never be more than average...he looks like Ben Taylor out there....he just don't have it...I don't know what most see in him...he got close to Manning once all game...Rogers hit him multiple times..not to mention Rodgers fighting through 2-3 guys to get to Manning...Rogers and Williams are the only ones on this team that get pressure on the QB consistently...along with Hall when he gets a chance

we need to fix our LB and soon if we ever want to win this division

Wow man ... what a buzzkill. Wanted to enjoy the win a little while longer.

BTW, doesn't Leon Hall play CB for the Bengals? Don't think we want him playing LB for us. *L*

Im with Rishuz, let me enjoy this until Thursday then you can blah, blah blah. 35-17 Browns. WOOF WOOF.

Alex Hall was a GREAT find. 3 sacks in the last three games.

I think LB has to be something we address early and often. I also wouldn't say that we are "set" at DE. I'd like to have at least one more solid guy to move in to the rotation.

IMO our biggest needs at this point are as follows.

1. LB
2. S
3. DE
4. RB
5. OL (I think to maintain a successful OL for more than a couple years you really have to address the position at some point each and every year).

I'm with ya. I didn't want Wimbley I wanted Ngata, Haven't liked Andra in I couldn't tell you how many years and McGinest is older than dirt.

Andra isn't a 3-4 mlb and he isn't even a good 4-3 lb. When he was "good" his stats were inflated because he was making tackles 10 yards down the field. I have alwasy talked about it with my friends that if the opposing team's rb needs 3 yards for a first down and it's him and Andra man to man that rb is going to get that first down, point blank period. Andra is worthless.

DAmn,your right. 14. How dare I.

Quote:

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Andra Davis needs to go
Wimbely it just hasn't worked out
Willie your too old

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Great...First u identify that...Then this is you fix???

Quote:

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To fix this problem

1. Alex Hall Takes Wimbely's place as the full-time Starting OLB
2. Keep Jackson
3. Use our 2nd rd Draft pick on a ILB..a "starting" quality guy...we need another ILB
4. Leon Willaims should see more time at ILB and OLB..especailly on passing downs

5. sign a veteran FA mid-tier LB...a guy who can start.
6. Beau Bell should be fighting for the starting line up next year.

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#5 is the ???...

LB's are debateably the most important part of the 3-4 and u want to replace the ILB (Davis) with a cheap mid tier FA Vet???...That's exactly what Davis is...It's the single weakest point of the LB core here...Davis does need to go...But it needs to be a BIG SPLASH...And I'm not so sure it's Bell making that splash...

If u want immediate impact to toughen up the middle of this D...It MUST come from a TOP TIER FA or our #1 pick in the draft...And every bit of this will depend on exactly how high we are on Bell entering camp...If we like Bell enuff to be inserted from day one as Davis's replacement...Look for us to go OLB with that splash in FA...

The changes have started...Bell and Hall inserted...MGinest and Davis gone...And Peek is a wild card...Just don't know if we will cut our losses with him or not...This will be interesting...But we can't go wrong as of right now with 2 FA's and our 1st 2 picks being in any of these areas...

OLB
ILB
DL
CB
RB

BTW...NOONE stops that 265lb HORSE in Jacobs...The Giants have the best running game in the league...And if they woulda went to the AIR exclusively in the 4th like they shoulda...The yards wouldn't have piled up...87 4th quarter yards when they're gettin' their asses whipped...They shoulda been throwing...And most came from Ward...

The browns should draft rey malaluga. The guy is very strong and fast. He also loves to give out punishing hits.

To me, that means he won't last very long. Get Matthews instead, more savvy, smarter. Good genes.

Anyway, I'm happy with what happened Monday Night. Enjoying that for a while.

So, the problem is run defense, and your plan is to

Get rid of Andra Davis - the team's best run defender
Get rid of Willie McGinest - Old, but still a good run defender
Start D'Qwell Jackson - Who is a ragdoll against power running teams, like the Giants
Start Alex Hall - Who for his upside and pass rushing thus far, still is really limited versus the run.

And no mention made of Beau Bell, who if not for his knee injury would have pushed for playing time? What about Leon Williams?

I don't deny Wimbley sucks against the run, but financially they can't get rid of him yet. Too bad, too sad.

I don't disagree with your overall theme, but really your plan is flawed.

I can't beleive either of these statements came out of your mouth ( or finger tips

:Get rid of Andra Davis - the team's best run defender
Get rid of Willie McGinest - Old, but still a good run defender
ofl: )

I like our personnel at LB, but they need to be a little better against the run.

We need hard hitters... not guys that give driven back, more specifically, I think D'Qwell is a target. I wouldn't mind running his way cuz he lacks the size to make hard hits head to head.

This was the thread I was going to start, but now I can reply to it..

So, the problem is run defense, and your plan is to
Get rid of Andra Davis - the team's best run defender
Oh you musta said that to draw me out, because there's nothing I see out of his play that convinces me of that.
I actually think McGinest is a better run defender than Davis, and he has very little left in the tank...

Start D'Qwell Jackson - Who is a ragdoll against power running teams, like the Giants
That I would agree with..he just doesn't have the size to handle the punishment..but he is our starter.

Now lets look at for what it is..
Jackson starts..the formula for him to be successful is to have a WOLB up front who is ALSO the run stuffer that Wimbley is not.
If U or anyone else has noticed, starting with the Cowboys, teams are hammering the left side..WHY?
Wimbley is geting sealed off inside and it's allowing the OT/TE on that side to get to Jackson and simply push him backward.

First try at a quick fix..get Wimbley off that left side..
Move him to the strongside..he doesn't have enough moves to pressure the QB when facing LT's..
Pit him against a RT and see if he can't use his speed to get by..
Doubt it works but it might for a while.

Move Willie over to DQ's side..since he's better against the run than Wimbley is it might help DQ more.

Now we haven't seen Bell and even when we do he'll be rusty and we really won't get a good guage until next season..but we do know he's built a reputation in college for being a hammer..he should push for time next offseason.

Alex Hall has to be developed to be that McGinest replacement and I'm sure they're looking at him to be that..
What Phil is going to have to do is look the top FA ILB's and try to get one..BUT HE'S HAD problems since 06 trying to secure just one..
Every top name LB Phil has tried to sign has spurned him..so he might have to draft one.
What I would do if I was him..look in the draft ..find a tweener runstuffing DE and place his butt on the inside..thats right ..the inside..

LOL

A situational pass rusher in which no situations are condusive to him rushing the passer.

Irony much. I do tend to agree though. Where is the 2nd move we heard so much about over the last 2 offseasons?

That quick fix is a good idea,and about the only thing that canbe done this year.
I watched Wimbley the 1st half,and he spent most of that on his backside.The TE,FB,guards,and on one play a WR knocked him down.I've never seen a LB'er get knocked down that much.
My thoughts were to keep him out on running plays,and use him only on passing downs,but he doesn't even do that well anymore.The Giants did nothing special in pass-pro,simple one on one Wimbley against Diehl,and Diehl did an outstanding job on him.

There is more to this thread than meets the eye.

It is very difficult for a 250lb guy like Wimbley to make a living at beating NFL left tackles. Wimbley should be moved around and used in combination with surrounding players to utilize his speed and quickness.

Jackson often gets good angles and wraps up pretty good. What we seem to miss the most is a beast guy in the middle. Davis is very average. He has average speed at best and does not stand runners up.

Maybe Beau Bell will help. Have not heard a word about him coming back and playing this year. He was a second day pick and I have no clue of how he will turn out.

I listened to Savage on the radio. He was at USC. They are loaded with players. He made reference to looking at defensive players.

We need a stud LB. Hall could develop into one on the outside. But what I would like to see is a animal on the inside. A signature player. A guy with the will, power, and speed to crush the run. And at the same time skilled enough to drop back into zone coverage.

Of course guys like that don't grow on trees. Hopefully Savage will spot someone in FA or in the draft. The defense is better with the new guys. The corners are playing well. Getting Sean Jones back will be big. But the defense is a work in progress. During this off season I'm sure progress will be made.

But for today and the rest of this season all I'm hoping for is to get back into the mix. Put together a string of w's and hope Pittsburgh drops back to the pack.

Sign Terrell Suggs, draft Malaluga or whatever his name is...Problem Solved.

Not trying to bate you at all. We disagree on Davis, and that's okay.

Just in general, it amazes me (not related to your comment) that no one ever critizes Jackson, yet he's been terrible against the run for two seasons. He's a decent linebacker, but he's replaceable.

My problem with Wimbley is that he HAS to line up on the weakside of the formation. He can't be trusted to even feign being put in coverage on the left side.

Maybe you haven't seen the comments on Jackson, because Eo, Diam myself and a few others have been on him ..
I keep saying he's undersized and is getting plowed over on that side.
If you leave KW on that side teams are just going to continue to run to the weakside..
Right now I doubt if Phil would replace Jackson..I doubt it..

You left me off that list.

DQ is pushed around way too often.

It is never a good sign when you have backers with grass stains on their butts.

Can't think of everyone ...sure there's a few more.
Just thinking about something I read before the draft started.
The remark was that the FO was not satisfied with the LB's..and they wanted to upgrade this season..

Bell/Hall were the first influx of the new group.
I can't help but feel that Phil will look at upgrading Dra and then McGinest before he touches Wimbley/Jackson.

I saw a few....just as a general commentary every Browns fan rips on Davis for everything, while a smaller portion don't talk about Jackson's mistakes.

It just pisses me that the Browns were going to draft Demeco Ryans in that round but Houston beat them to it. It's always a huge mistake to overdraft a guy based on a run at the position.

Well now you're heading down the path I was at when this happened.
I thought he would stay pat and take Gerris Wilkerson..
His thinking (while he didn't let on that Wilkerson getting snagged botched his plan) was that he had to get the next top rated guy..which was Jackson..

He said he played a similar position at Maryland and had the instincts.
The comments on most of the draft sites were similar to what he said.
This is a comment from someone who is near the organization..

" To the best of my memory word was that Phil was fairly distraught when Ryans went off the board one pick ahead of where he could reasonable trade up. Then he traded up and got DQ, who he didn't have in Ryans class at all, but was 2nd best in a weak year for MLB's. "

this isn't even the off season yet !!!

Willie McGinest will probably retire at the end of the season
Beau Bell is an unknown
Alex Hall is doing decent so far,but so did Wimbley his first year
Davis should not be a starter,but fine as a back-up.
Peek can't stay healthy,but will prolly be back
Wimbley is a mystery
Williams is a back-up
Jackson is prolly not a front line starter.
Griffin is a special teams player.

JMO, but we have nine really fine back-up linebackers.

No, the Giants took Gerris in the third round in 06 .
Typo..Wilkinson..my bad..
Phil could have stayed at pick 43 and taken Darryl Tapp, the DE from VT..
He and Dumervil were the two OLB's I wanted
He then could have taken Wikinson instead of Travis Wilson..

I'm still under the impression that regardless of our talent, we're not going to see results without effective scheming.

You can't tell me that Wimbley is taking on the tackle every single time with his shoulder dip move after being told not to...if that werre the case I imagine he'd have been long benched, talent behind him or not. It seems to me that the coaching staff is content with this.

Against the run he is laughable, and against the pass he is predictable. I don't know if the first is something that can be remedied, but I'm not entirely convinced the latter is all his fault. Wimbley would cause HAVOC in Pittsburgh or Baltimore...and that's not even implying he's that good. Hell, Leon Williams could be scary on those squads. Good defensive gameplanning gets the most out of what you have...you can't produce miracles everytime, but you can get more out of less.

Wimbley does more than just try to go around the tackle with his dip move. I saw Monday night him use a bull rush a couple of times and I saw him string out a few plays to the sideline. Its not his fault the pursuit didnt make it there on time and when it did they got ran over. I do understand every single cleveland fan wants superman at every position and need them to be in the back field every play or they're absolute crap. Get a clue. Also, imagine that. A former DE taking bad angles to a ball carrier. Never would of guessed, of course he should be completely instinctive by his third year in the pros right...

I also saw him almost sack Manning and almost sack Fitzgerald in the Bengals game. His consistency isnt exactly the greatest but after a few more weeks of using different moves he should be able to trick a few tackles and we should see his numbers go up. Despite of what you think he is playing solid against both the pass and the run. Solid isnt good enough for you though is it...

Saying D'Qwell is garbage is absolutley ludacris. He is the single best tackler on this team. He meets the ball carrier in the hole when he's kept clean and he is highly instinctive. When we break up a screen who is usually there? number 52 thats who. All we need is another OLB and ILB. I was hoping to see Leon Williams progress to the point of taking Andras job but it doesnt seem like its happening. Its a shame since he's a beast of an athlete. Only see him on third down plays, which tells me he's not instinctive enough. Hoping Bell is some Ray Lewis isnt going to happen either. He dropped to the 4th round for a reason. He's going to be a harder hitting Andra if he develops. That man has tight hips.

I think I was the torch bearer for that one but yes DQ continues to get run over in the power running game. When he was drafted it was pretty obvious to some that the odds for success were stacked against him. It really was probably the worst knee jerk draft day decision that Savage has made here...going after DQ once Demeco Ryans was taken off the board.

Injury Report
2005: Bothered early in the season with a groin strain, seeing limited action vs. Idaho (9/10) and Nevada (9/17).



2006: Sat out the Utah, Texas Christian, San Diego State, Wyoming and Air Force games after suffering a left ankle sprain vs. Brigham Young (10/21


which one of these causes stiff hips through out a collegiate career? He's always had them. Not only that he isnt to fond of practices and he rarely if ever practiced through injuries.

analysis