DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why can't the spread option work in the NFL?

Maybe not the whole offense, but more elements of it than what we're seeing now. We're already starting to see it creep its way into the NFL game.

I was thinking about this today as I was re-watching highlights of the Browns game and saw us in the Wildcat formation (or the "Flash package" as we call it).

Ronnie Brown and the Dolphins are having phenomenal success with this package and he's not even a QB! I saw us run that "read" play on the Cribbs keeper...I realize NFL defenses are faster and cover more ground...but the DE still bit on the fake and Cribbs was able to get 10+ yards.

I also understand the risk of running a high priced QB out there taking hits, but then again, these guys in college are used to it because they're in that sort of system.

Just throwing it out there, I'm not taking it as gospel but it's something to ponder.

I'm not putting a guy that I'm paying $10 million a year, in the situation to get blasted every play. And I'm sure that's what NFL owners are thinking. The NFL coaches are probably thinking "If I do that and get our QB killed, I don't have a job".

QBs in the spread are going to be crushed by LBs with the same speed.

Contracts are guaranteed for the most part; I care LESS if these guys get hurt. I don't WANT them to get hurt, but they are MILLIONAIRES and are paid to perform. The chances of injury are miniscule compared to the reward. See the page on "Marine in Iraq,..." what does THAT kid get paid for taking a chance ??

Run the GDSOB until the defense stops it; that's exactly what they do in college ball,...hello.

Besides, NFL players are not easily confused and/or tricked by those plays on any consistant basis. They read, recognize and react much faster than the college game. Everyone on a good NFL defense is as good or better than the best couple of players on a college defense. I just don't think it would fool them after having been burned a time or two.

The current "Wildcat" formation is working to a degree early on for some teams. But once defenses have faced that a couple of times they'll sniff it out quickly and put an end to it. Its a trend and as with all trends it will be short lived.

That's my take.

Of course it could work and they'll be a lot of spread option QBs coming into the NFL. I would be surprised if we don't see at least one team go exclusively to that offense in the next 5 years. I'd almost guarantee it.

Yes you'll have more QB injuries but if you have enough guys on the roster to make it work it'll work...and the fact that you're one of the few offenses to run it will give you a remarkable advantage on game day.

I think this is about as close as we will get. Like people mentioned there are two issues:

1. Your QB will get killed
2. Team speed defense

Plus the a big part of that would be the corners...you have to play the run as an NFL CB. In college if you just send the WR's deep the corners usually follow them, but in the NFL that won't work.

One other issue is that to run that kind of offense, you are going to be breaking a lot of fundamental habits that RB's have. Most of them are used to be 7 yards deep in the I or Singleback, and getting them out in the spread really changes their approach to the game.

Plus the OL has to be exclusively zone blockers.

I think it's a cute package, but easier to defend than we realized.

Heres a crazy thought. I think the titans would be the first team to run the spread once Jeff Fisher retires. Vince young plus chris johnson could make it work.

Vince Young could obviously run it. You have Tim Tebow coming out and plenty others that will not be top draft picks. It'll be here soon enough and it's going to cause problems for teams with depth issues at DB.

The speed of the game is much different, the physical nature is different but the scheme is so different that someone will try it.....if the Run & Shoot was implemented in the NFL in the 80s...there's no doubt in my mind the Spread Option will find a home in the NFL soon enough.

The only question I have is...imagine that offense vs. the Steelers or the Ravens. I can't see it working but who knows!

When I was a kid,.....we always talked about how successful Oklahoma ran the 'Bone,...and why didn't they run it in the NFL.

The answer is athletics,..it's different "up there."

The wildcat hasn't been used in a while, but eventually teams will catch on. Its still nice to use a gadget play every now and then. I'd like to see us use more of Cribbs taking the snap and the QB linign up at WR.

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Why can't the spread option work in the NFL?

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It can't even work against the Toledo Rockets!

The formations and the passing elements of it do work in the NFL, and are already being run by the Patriots. The problem is the option and QB scramble plays.

It works right now because defenses arent gaming for it. If the spread with all the gadget stuff like wilcat are used with any regularity by teams, defenses will adjust, start gaming for it and the results will boken QB's. You can get away with just about any formation if you're only pulling it every now and again. In my opinion, spread option works best against slower defenses with LB's who are known not to read well. There aren't many of those in the NFL.

It can...and will.

The spread is here to stay in college and HS.

In 10 years, the NFL will IMO be almost exclusively a spread league as well for a simple reason...few kids are going to come up being trained as drop-back QBs. The NFL isn't going to have any real choice because they won't be able to find any.

So unless the NFL starts some sort of minor league system and starts drafting kids out of HS to train, they will spread it out as well.

Right now, Josh Cribbs could be a spread QB for the Browns. He isn't going to get hit any harder doing that than he does returning kicks..

The qbs of today are changing..they aren't the skinny guy like they once were. They can take hits...and IMO taking hits while running and protecting yourself as much as you can is better than standing there with a arm up over your head to be hit by someone who has all the momentum.

You might actually see fewer qb injuries...though you might not see qbs hanging around the league until they are 42.

It wont work because of the flat out talent difference between an NFL team and a college team.

college is talent diluted by 114+ teams, scholorship limits, and a 3-4 year window to use a players.

NFL talent is divided up by 32 teams. And you retain the players as long as you/they want to them to stay. You have free angency. Defenses are too talented to sucumb to the the zone read/spread.

There is not one college that faces anything close to an NFL defense every week. They may play some talented individuals, but not as a unit.

Aspects are in the game today, the run- pass option on the roll out, but you dont see to many qbs run, because the run not there.

Its really not hard to defend...with the speed in the NFL it will get defended by the defenses.

Btw we have had this in our playbook well before the Dolphins started using it. Cribbs was hurt so we haven't been able to utilize it. But we saw some of it last year on a 2 point conversion and Cribbs running a couple of times. So we are not being copycats and if the Experts on ESPN actually knew their football they would have known this. Instead they kept suggesting we were copying the newest craze brought on by the Dolphins!

As for running it as a norm basic O...Defending it is easy. Discipline on the gaps and you got it covered. As for the air part...the Slash/RB guy (in our case Cribbs) will make mistakes cause there is a reason they are not QBs. 2 - they will get KILLED like most Option QBs but this time its with Bigger, Faster, more Destructive NFL players!

Surprise is of the essence. We want marginal success. Pick our spots. Force teams to spend 33% of their game planning for it and it will serve its purpose.

JMHO

I see what Peen is saying though... college football is diverging into 2 camps, the spread and the traditional.. this is my thought, it used to be the option and the traditional... and the option faded away except for a couple holdouts primarily because defenses got faster and smarter and the option is too limiting... but the traditional lives on... I think the traditional will always live on, not that some team might not make the spread work in the NFL at some point, but I doubt it will spell the end of the more traditional offense.... I can see the NFL going to a "more" spread offense but I don't see it ever going to an offense where the QB running is one of the top 2 or 3 options available...

The problem is too many NFL teams still a QB excessively scrambling as a sign of indecision and not being patient. Teaching a guy to have designed runs, along with having to bring in the option will be a nightmare.

I think you'll see teams running a shotgun based offense more, but not running the SO. The NFL has really become an Air Coryell league, after the WCO dominated the 90's.

My point on the spread option is the first team that implements it as a base offense in the NFL is going to have 3 or maybe 4 guys who were immensely talented in college running it.

Yes you may go through 3 QBs a year playing it but you'll have 4 very good spread option QBs on your team.

As you know running the spread option allows teams to run 11-11. The spread part lets that happen with fewer players at the LOS. That's why the option doesn't work in the NFL...but this has a chance to. You're basically running 7 on 6/7 in the box.

You know someone's going to do it. It's a matter of when not if...and that when is within 5 years IMO.

Here's another thought. Why does your franchise QB need to be running the spread anyway?

Every team can have a designated "spread QB" like Cribbs, Randle El, Ronnie Brown, et cetera. As more QB's come up from college from spread systems, NFL teams will have more true spread QB's to choose from. The trick is finding guys with the return or receiving skills to validate their spot on the roster before it takes hold.

If that QB gets hurt, then you simply remove his plays from the playbook until he is healthy or use someone else on your roster in his place (Harrison in our case perhaps). Rinse and repeat.

In that sense, it would be hard for a NFL defense to ever completely figure it out because it would not be the only offense they are seeing on a given Sunday and there are enough wrinkles from it to be continually successful.

When a team tries to go exclusively to the spread (I believe one will at least try), the problem will not just be injuries to the QB, but also the the WRs and RBs. Remember, the spread is all about getting your players out in space, which means that there will be more full-speed collisions happening with all the players that tote the rock, which is a tough task to ask your team to do for every play of an entire game.

Sorry the Wishbone was a tremendous - undefensible College formation.

But again...what works in college does not work in the pro's.

They can have all the wide open Zook offenses they want in the college ranks.

Let one of them come into the NFL and try to use it. Hmmmm...wonder if Spurrier comes to anyones mind. It worked in college but it won't work in the NFL. You'll always have a Matt Ryan, Flacco, NFL style QB that will become the next great NFL QB. Not these NEW Style Run n shoot formation QBs. Some will make it some won't. But thats cause they got the NFL game...or they don't.

JMHO

Hence, I also find it comical that a lot of folks believe you HAVE to go to the spread to succeed in college football. I happen to disagree. You might have to stop the spread, but you do not have to run it.

Georgia Tech does seem to be doing just fine this year without the spread. What offense are they running down there anyway?

I get you and Peens point and you're right . Who knows what 5 or 25 years will bring. They are running the spread some right now but not the option. QBs will have to get a lot cheaper before anyone trys that in the NFL. I heard an ex coach talking on the radio about Tyrell Pryor. He said Pryor will be a great college QB but no one willwant him in the Pros. I'm not sure I agree with that because Pryor has a long way to go before his draft. He has agreat arm and hopefully will learn to give the ball up more often.

Sure, the traditional tailbacks were the same, Johnny Russo wasn't, along with the others.

The "bone" isn't a good comparison. It was a run based option. The spread is a pass/run based option.

Totally different.

"The NFL has been morphing to faster, utility backs for a while now. The spread just morphs the qb.
Trying to use the wishbone as proof the spread won't work doesn't pan IMO"

Actually its a perfect example cause it is an Offense that when ran proficiently in college it was unstoppable but couldn't be utilized in the NFL.

Same with the college spread...heck Mich can't even run it in the Big Ten...lol

Same with Spurriers Spread offense, little different than what we see now. Great College Offense. Couldn't be ran in the NFL.

Sorry Peen Defenses are just too good in the NFL to utilize that as a Basic/standard Offensive formation and here is why...Same reason the Run n Shoot didn't make it by the way.

THE QB WILL GET KILLED!

No chip blockers. Its actually not hard to defend - Not when you have the Athletes to do so. And every NFL team has the ATHLETES.

I'm not saying we shouldn't utilize it as a package. Actually I've been a proponent of the Cribbs Razzle Dazzle series (as I had been calling it) from the get go.

But to think that the Wildcat (whatever you want to call it) will make it in the NFL as a Standard package is REDICULOUS...Here is another thing. What makes the NFL Spreads so dangerous? DBs can't hit them after 5 yards.

Well Got news for you....if a QB rolls out of the pocket in a Run/throw Option. The DBs can PUMMEL the WRs all they want.

But they better have 3 viable Run/Throw option QBs on the roster ready to play cause thats how many they would need in the NFL and that would be for the first half of the season!

JMHO

You apparently have not seen a GTech game yet this year. They do not run the spread-option (ala West Virginia and Michigan).

They run the triple-option that Navy has been running for a very long time. The Flexbone formation has OL at normal splits (not farther apart like in most spread-formations) and keeps either 9 or 10 players close to the ball in the formation (9 in normal...10 with a TE).

Also note that the QB never lines up in shotgun when running the triple-option (as opposed to most spread-option formations that have the QB there almost exclusively).





Here is how wikipedia defines these two offenses:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Option_offense

Flexbone Option Offense. A variant of the wishbone offense, the flexbone came to prominence in the 1990s. It was employed originally in midsized colleges, most notably, Georgia Southern, who won a record six Division I-Championship Subdivision National Titles and eight conference titles while using this offense. It was soon adapted by all three football division 1A military academies where it provided strong statistical results. The Navy Midshipmen continue to use this offense and perennially lead the Division I-Bowl Subdivision in rushing. The flexbone offense varies from the wishbone in a few fundamental ways. First, and most notably, the flexbone replaces the halfbacks that are aligned in the backfield of a wishbone with one or two “wingbacks” or “slot backs,” that align off-tackle or off-end. These “hybrid” players are typically very quick and must be adept at running, blocking (particularly cut blocking) and receiving. Due to their positioning, they can more easily facilitate the passing game in the flexbone and serve to stretch the defensive alignment laterally prior to the snap. Teams that employ this scheme tend to amass consistently high rushing averages. This offenses heavy reliance on quarterbacks that are primarily runners, tend to limit its potential in the passing game.

Spread Option Offense. The spread option offense is a variant of the more generic “spread offense.” It has found unprecedented success and widespread employment in college and high school football. Essentially a hybrid of the traditionally pass-oriented spread offense, the spread option is based on the concept of defensive isolation. The offense "spreads" the defense by aligning in three-to-five receiver sets, using two or fewer running backs in the backfield and often setting the quarterback in shotgun. This “spread” forces the defense to defend more of the field and isolates its players in “space”. To exploit this, the offense employs double or triple option plays which further mitigates the athleticism of the defense and forces it to play their assignments. When used in combination with a consistent passing game, the spread option offense can yield strong results. The means by which option plays are run from the spread option offense vary greatly. The most popular running play employed in the spread is the read option. This play is also known as a the zone-read, QB Choice, or QB Wrap. A type of double option, the read option is relatively simple play during which the quarterback makes a single read (usually of the backside defensive end or linebacker) and decides whether or not to hand the ball to a running back on a dive or slant track. Others have found even more innovative ways to run the option from spread formations. Creative use of motioning schemes have enabled wide receivers and even tight ends to become ballcarriers as evidenced by Wake Forest's version of the spread employed during the mid-2000s. Urban Meyer helped to innovate the option attack out of the shotgun formation. Other pioneers include University of Michigan coach Rich Rodriguez, Kansas State University Coach Bill Snyder and others.

Check back with me in 10 years to see where we stand.

Like I said...start projecting QBs more in the mold of a running back type, then they don't get killed anymore than does a rb.

Yes...DA or Favre running around would get killed.

Cribbs wouldn't.

I think it may be possible that teams start to adapt. Things evolve, the spread will work it's way into the NFL. Then defensive minds start to work in ways to defend it, the offense evolves...its just the cycle of the business.

Just like the Air Coryell offense was replaced by the WCO in the 80s/90s. Right now you see elements of both in the game today. Varying from team to team. We run more of the deeper Air Coryell type stuff, with some WCO worked in.

But back to the original topic; as the college game inevitably goes to more spread offenses, the NFL will have no choice. The players to run what we see now in the NFL simply wont be there. You'll see more Qb's like Young than like DA. Thus the spread will come to the NFL out of necessity if not choice.

JMHO

Like I said on another thread, there is already a shortage of dropback qbs....not every team has a decent qb.

Sooner or later someone is going to decide to take a guy like Tebow, and let him play his 8 year career, and win.

Then they will figure out they will save money to boot, changing the qb position into a somewhat expendable position, and it will be done...everybody will flock that way.