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Nice post. You're learning  It's almost laughable that Randy Lerner, a BILLIONAIRE that has many businesses needs to hire a businessman to oversee Savage. Isn't that what LERNER is doing? Man, sometimes you read things on here and your IQ drops 10 points and you get a headache. 
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Thanks for your input "B." Always appreciated.
All I know is, if I was an impressionable 8-10 year old again and was able to digest and interpret with the same ability we can at 50+, I'd be looking for a new team. Heartbreaking to say so.
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Quote:
Nice post. You're learning It's almost laughable that Randy Lerner, a BILLIONAIRE that has many businesses needs to hire a businessman to oversee Savage. Isn't that what LERNER is doing? Man, sometimes you read things on here and your IQ drops 10 points and you get a headache.
I learned that much back in '04 when Butch was fired.
Funny how we want to go back to what DIDN'T work before.
As for his Steelers example, he needs to keep in mind it's NOT business decisions that make them good at what they do, it's their director of football operations (Kevin Colbert...basically a way of being a GM without the title). If we hired Cowher and could lure Colbert away from Pittsburgh, I'd tell Savage he has 15 minutes to collect his personal belongings and get on the next jet out of Berea (and I like Savage...plus I'm exaggerating but I think you get where I'm coming from).
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I said it before, Savage is over his head. We need a real Coporate CEO here to handle the business of this franchise full time.
At what point is this Winslow mess attributable to Savage's business handling of things? And, does Savage even control the business side of things?
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Savage is in way over his head, and him being mad over this is just another thing that shows me the Browns are simply falling apart. Savage should have just ignored it, and said "Kellen was just mad I talked to him" and been done with it.
What? Winslow was mad that Savage didn't call him, which is so freakin' petty it makes me laugh.
Oh, and Winslow speaking out doesn't show you the Browns are falling apart? He's not to blame at all in this?
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1. He drafted a receiver who has the drops and only 1 good season since he has been here, and he will never do that again - Edwards
Who was, by just about all accounts, the best player in that draft at the time the draft happened. Who should he have drafted?
Also, how many good season has Winslow had? You seem to be all over his junk, tell me how Winslow is that much more of an asset than Edwards.
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2. He drafted a Bust in Wimbely, trading with our hated rival Baltimore..ya never give your division rival the player they want, you trade with someone else, even if ya get less, just to screw your division opponent out of the guy they want. you weaken a rival that way.
So you're ok with us not getting the player we want as long as our opponents don't get the player they want? At what point do we stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and start concentrating on making us a team that everyone else worries what WE'RE doing?
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5. commited to Anderson being the starter, after he single handily cost us a playoff berth last year against the hapless Bengals..a game he has yet to recover from and never will.
So Savage is pulling an Al Davis and calling down to the field on game day and telling RAC not to pull him?
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4. Botched on the Perkins and Wilson picks.
And really screwed up picking up Cribbs, and Alex Hall, and Joe Thomas, and screwed up getting Shaun Rogers in here. Man, what a horrible GM.
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7. Shipped Antonio Bryant out of here after a 1,000 yard campaign, he was the best route runner on this team and second best hands to Winslow, Edwards has more drops in 5 games then Bryant had that entire freaking year!
Would you suggest shipping Edwards out because of his drops, even though he had an amazing season last season? And, by God, when did we move Bryant out of here and you're still worked up about it? Should we start whining now about Kosar being shipped out, too?
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8. Got rid of our best safety since the Return in Brian Russel, who want to stay for a reasonable price, the only guy we have had back there that will lay the wood on someone...see Chad Johnson's busted face.
So you're saying Jones and Pool are dog food back there?
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isn't it funny...When Tucker is hurt, we struggle.
When Heiden is hurt, we struggle
Couldn't it be said that when Heiden is hurt, the reason we struggle is that Winslow is in there more?
And are you saying that Butch Davis was a better evaluator of talent than Savage is?
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take it for what you wil...Savage has done nothing great here, and his handling of the Winslow situation should get him canned...he is personifying a franchise in disarayy not only in the lockeroom, but in the front office which is bad for business...we look like were falling apart.
I guess I'll close by saying: are you freakin' serious? Savage should be fired because he punished Winslow?
You say Savage has done "nothing great", yet he brought in Joe Thomas and Shaun Rogers, guys who are true beasts. He's brought in Eric Steinbach, who is one tough Guard.
So, are you saying bringing those guys in weren't good moves? If they were good moves, then you're contradicting yourself.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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But a few on here feel they have all the answers and think they know it all when in fact, they know very little.
Life has taught me that the ones who come in talking the loudest, calling people names, are usually the ones who know the least.
and thats why i think so little of U ... cause u MAKE STUFF UP AND BASICALLY LIE ... thats the stuff that makes u or anyone else for that matter classless in my book ...
I said twice .. I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THIS WENT DOWN .... NO CLUE ... but thats not good enough for U ...
yet u just make crap up ... thats what losers do ...
go hop back on your horse .... U and KW are peas in a pod ... classless ...
and it depends on whos in the hospital ... If your in it and the phone rings U can rest assured its not gonna be my voice on the other end ...
and as usual u can't follow the bouncing ball .. this has nuttin to with him disclosing why he was in the hopsital and EVERYTHING to do with $$$$ ..
but that never mattered to U before so why should I think it would now .. *L* ..
Diam, Diam...you really are a piece of work.
If you were in the hospital, I would send you flowers, and wouldn't even be trying to irritate you...though I know it would, so please instruct me on what direction I should take.
Really man...you need to get a grip.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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POST DELETED
Last edited by Referee1; 10/23/08 07:12 AM.
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lmao...i've been to ALOT of microsoft seminars...they all act like that..you should have seen the MOSS 2007 launch..lol, but steve is WAY over the top...i'd love to see his offseason press conferences as president..lol
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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I've got six words for you.....
THE NAME ON THE DOOR IS CLEVELAND!!!! YEAH!!!!!!!
That's seven,unless your counting the YEAH,then I think that would be eight
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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1. He drafted a receiver who has the drops and only 1 good season since he has been here, and he will never do that again - Edwards
Who was, by just about all accounts, the best player in that draft at the time the draft happened. Who should he have drafted?
the list is stellar, my friend.
how about alex smith,mike williams, troy williamson, or cedric benson?
ooh, how about pacman jones?
lolz. i still like the edwards pick. yes he has dropped a ton of balls, but he's still a young guy, and i firmly believe the light will one day go on in his head.
edwards is the least of our problems.
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edwards is the least of our problems.
Oh, I dinno bout that.. the drops are bad. Very baaaad. He leads the NFL in dropped passes. DA's qb rating would be a darn sight better than it is if BE would stop dropping passes.
webbage
NFL Leaders: Pass Dropped (Thru Oct. 20, 2008)
Rank Player Team Stats
1 Braylon Edwards Cle 10
2t Anthony Gonzalez Ind 7
2t Calvin Johnson Det 7
4t Dwayne Bowe KC 5
4t Steve Smith Car 5
6t Bernard Berrian Min 4
6t Laveranues Coles NYJ 4
6t Vernon Davis SF 4
6t Brandon Marshall Den 4
6t Santana Moss Was 4
6t Terrell Owens Dal 4
6t L.J. Smith Phi 4
6t Ben Utecht Cin 4
6t Hines Ward Pit 4
6t Jason Witten Dal 4
16t Patrick Crayton Dal 3
16t Ronald Curry Oak 3
16t Rashied Davis Chi 3
16t Warrick Dunn TB 3
16t Justin Gage Ten 3
16t Earnest Graham TB 3
16t Todd Heap Bal 3
16t Brandon Jackson GB 3
16t DeSean Jackson Phi 3
16t Brandon Jacobs NYG 3
16t Greg Jennings GB 3
16t Marcedes Lewis Jac 3
16t Josh Morgan SF 3
16t Chris Perry Cin 3
16t Adrian Peterson Min 3
16t Antwaan Randle El Was 3
16t Tony Scheffler Den 3
16t Amani Toomer NYG 3
16t Jerheme Urban Ari 3
16t Bobby Wade Min 3
16t Wes Welker NE 3
16t Roddy White Atl 3
16t Roy Williams Dal 3
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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I meant where did it occur this time..in the knee or in a cut..
I am assuming it was a tattoo or a piercing.
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hate to break it to you both, but if you count'em up,
6 words = "The name on the door is...."
Kinda fitting, since this entire team is still a "work in progress".... don'tcha think?
jmh .02
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Of course we need LEADERSHIP. It's nowhere to be found in the Front Office.
What are you a Lions fan? Because if by "we" you mean the Browns your more off course than most of DA's passes were last week.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I would also have to say it isn't lack of leadership in the FO.
We may not like the course we are on with the qb or the coach, but I wouldn't say that is because of a leadership problem.
I think Savage has a clear vision of where he wants to go. Lerner hasn't done anything to tell me he doesn't care, so his seeming lack of voice in public shouldn't be viewed as a lack of leadership...it tells me he trusts the vision of his football guys and agrees with the direction.
As fans we look at wins and losses, and kind of judge everything on that, but leadership isn't always reflected in the win loss column. It may not be reflected in that way at all.
Lerner doesn't have to be like a Jerry Jones who roams the sidelines and takes a direct say so in the nuts and bolts of the football operations.
I also agree with B in that he doesn't need to hire someone else to act as president or whatever title it may be to oversee Savage, as he can do that. No matter how many layers above Savage the team may have, it simply boils down to one thing....is Savage doing the job or not?? I see no reason why Lerner couldn't make that decision, and in the end, would probably be the one to make that call anyway.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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I am assuming it was a tattoo or a piercing. So do we have a Captain Ahab in Berea?  Harpoons..whales..ships.."OH MY.." Phil didn't like the 'new' contract demand from him after giving him his money back the first time. Phil knows he is damaged goods, Phil isn't giving the kind of money KW wants for the position especially for damaged goods that was self-imposed. KW was also pissed about Rucker and knows he isn't getting his money, that flew out the window then and after the trade deadline. Watching them win against the Giants without him was no doubt added fuel. RAC said KW agreed (mutual agreement was the term)to shut his trap and he didn't. He also kicked RAC in the groin while doing it. Don't think Rac isn't ticked cuze he is.. KW is all about KW first and formost .. INTERESTING that no team gave the Browns what they wanted for him..because every team knows he's damaged.. Oh I'm sure he'll be dealt, probably for a 3rd..but right now it's not pretty.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/23/08 09:23 AM.
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Coach - all that those of us on the outside have to go on is what we've heard out of the mouths of Savage and Winslow. Personally, as I've said, I think they're both at fault here, but my judgment will probably be made final after we hear back from the league about the appeal, since they'll have all the information.
I appreciate the hint at the insider knowledge, but it doesn't really help unless it's elaborated on and sourced, as either the source or the information may be questionable. Making a claim that Winslow lied about the organization is pretty bold, especially if he and Rosenhaus believe he has grounds to win an appeal. Are you able to say what you've heard and who you've heard it from or have you been sworn to secrecy on it. I'd really like to know who is at fault here and why in specifics so I don't misdirect any frustration.
We're... we're good?
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All Pro
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Rish, I think there's a confidentiality with his sources that needs to be kept there. If Coach was telling us who his sources were they'd find out. I'm sure they have feelers out on all these boards.
As far as your post goes, I don't think Winslow has a chance in hell to win that appeal. Honestly, he should just take the suspension come back and work harder. Knowing his past I doubt he does, he's gonna be whining the rest of the year, and I honestly don't expect him back next year.
To those who think Winslow was right...I've worked 3 different retail jobs and I don't know of any boss who has called an employers who called to check in. Usually the department head or someone close would get up a collection for a card and possibly flowers to send to the person.
I think this boils down to his contract situation plain and simple. I also don't think a slightly above average TE (Great reciever, horrid at everything else) deserves the money he's probably expecting.
"I don't remember any of my catches. I remember the drops." - Kellen Winslow II
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JMO, but I think we can get more than a 3rd for KW. More like a 2nd and a 3rd. Some team that needs a TE to fill in that last piece of the puzzle will take a chance. He will be what, 26 next year? How damaged is he really? He can prolly play another 5-6 years.
Will the Browns be better with or without him? IMO the answer depends on what we get in return. And I think it's better to get something in the offseason than nothing when he walks.
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Lemme say something..I don't need Coach to verify anything..I know whether he's legid or not..people just need to respect his stand, that he can't give out info..
This whole situation is nothing more than a grandstand..
If you take one thing away remember this..
"As to the reason for the hospitalization, Savage said that the team and Winslow had agreed that the information would be kept confidential. Though Savage didn’t address whether the reason given by Winslow is the real reason, the problem with the HIPAA law as applied to this specific case is that the player can say whatever he wants to say about the reason he was in the hospital, and the team can’t say anything to the contrary."
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 10/23/08 10:28 AM.
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"So he's a TE...we heard talk about how no team has ever been dominated by their TE.....yet we had such a team with Ozzie."
Peen, sometimes your football logic, simply defies that LOGIC.
What in hecks name does that have to do with the price of apples?
I never, never stated that good teams don't have good TEs. BTW...not that it matters but how many NFL Championships does Ozzie have? If you are going to quote me, do it properly...not lawyerese made up crapola.  I said Championship team...so take your "AND YET" and throw it out the Window 
Listen...point blank. Rucker, Heiden and Dinkins can provide the play needed from the TE position to Win, win any game that we execute.
KW2 is talented, very talented but this is not an individual sport and the TE position does not accentuate the individual as much as it does TEAM PLAY. KW2 does not present himself well in the Team concept.
He doesn't listen to instructions well.
He was instructed how to avoid staph infections...but he got one and then goes publicly blaming the team for it (as in I was considering asking for a trade).
He was instructed to "NEVER RIDE A MOTORCYLCLE" and yet there he was riding a jock rocket to shatter his knee.
He is not good in his film studies.
He does not know where to line up in different formations.
He does not run good patterns and improvises.
He is forever disrupting the huddle stating Get the ball to him.
I like his fire, I like his heart. I don't like his head and he isn't a TEAM PLAYER in the most TEAM sport there is.
JMHO - want him here? Sure if he becomes a true team player - not just on game day but in his preparation, etc. If he wants to be gone? I welcome it as long as we get decent compensation we will become a better team with no doubt in my mind. Not cause I HATE KW2...I don't hate him one bit. But with Rucker, Heiden and Dinkins I think our TE position actually could be better served in the team aspect of things. With the compensation I think we can add another stud on the D or the OL in a rookie that we didn't expect to.
The team would be better and thats all I care about.
Now, don't get mad at me. Just bow down and retract your position...lol  
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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How do you go from being a soilder to crying because your boss didn't show up with daisies?  Is it too late for a poem? Girls like poems. How bout Sending flowers, I rarely do Although I suppose I could try sumptin new You were our first draft pick I'm sorry your sick But you signed a contract now I own you. By Henry Gibson 
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FYI, 1460 The Fan, down here in C-Bus just reported the appeal won't happen til next week. Winslow may or may not get paid for Sunday , but he's definitely not playing.
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Are you able to say what you've heard and who you've heard it from or have you been sworn to secrecy on it.
If you want to end a source being a source, just run your mouth about what is told to you in private. Just like telling everybody what a friend, or spouse has told you in private. Friendships are far to important to damage just to prove to somebody that your correct.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I think I got the solution so all these goofs that think B should actually care what they think will be satisfied .... so heres what we do ... B ... send me PM with your contacts name and # .... tell him to make himself available at 9:30 tonight ... tell him to expect a call from ... hmmm ... i need a cool code name ... lets see .. Deep Throat ... Ollie ... Dumb Ass Dawg ... oh no wait i got it .... tell him he can expect a call from code name:dOLt ... ya .. thats it ... dOLt .. this way i can verify it for all the enquiring minds that need to know .. I'll expect your PM by 8 or so ... Your Welcome .... 
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... or better yet, keep it to yourself altogether. I know that, if I had inside sources, I wouldn't be splattering what they told me on public message boards out of respect for those friendships to begin with. But that's just me. ::shrug::
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I appreciate the hint at the insider knowledge, but it doesn't really help unless it's elaborated on and sourced, as either the source or the information may be questionable. Making a claim that Winslow lied about the organization is pretty bold, especially if he and Rosenhaus believe he has grounds to win an appeal. Are you able to say what you've heard and who you've heard it from or have you been sworn to secrecy on it. I'd really like to know who is at fault here and why in specifics so I don't misdirect any frustration.
While it is frustrating to hear bits and pieces from Coach, it has to be that way. With it about medical issues, his source has to be very careful. I assume it will come out eventually, and it sucks that we have to wonder. We at least know that there is more to the story then meets the eye.
#gmstrong
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J/C on you P.... Here is the link to Savage's morning radio show... Savage Radio Clip He is very passionate about the ordeal!
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... or better yet, keep it to yourself altogether. I know that, if I had inside sources, I wouldn't be splattering what they told me on public message boards out of respect for those friendships to begin with. But that's just me. ::shrug::
Good for you. Ignore it if you don't want to hear about it. Some people do want to see it, and will take from it what they wish.
We've always had a couple of guys with some pretty good inside info. People can decide what and who they believe as they wish.
It's almost like it's some kind of ego thing with some of you that someone else knows more than you do.
Get over it.
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Thanks for the link. Phil seemed pretty fired up about it!
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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I listened to that this morning....
I wonder what kind of pick we will get for Winslow because it sounds like it is now a personal matter....3rd maybe??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Yeah, I agree with you, 'Peen. Now, it would be great if both parties can be big enough to move past this, but I doubt it.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Well Saint, the stats indicate otherwise. Unless of course you expect a WR to "be perfect". So let's say BE did "really good" and had only dropped three balls instead of 10. Unless of course you expect 100% accuracy from DA as a yardstick? Didn't think so. So that would mean that DA would have completed seven more passes. Right now DA has 90 completions out of 183. Had BE caught seven out of those ten drops, he would be 97 out of 183. So as of now, he is completing 49.2 % of his passes.  With BE only dropping three instead of ten, DA would be throwing for a whopping 53%. So no, BE is not blameless. But are people actually trying to say that a 53% completion rate is such a vast difference from a 49.2% in completions? You see, even if BE had "pretty good hands", it wouldn't make DA all that and a bag of chips.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Good for you. Ignore it if you don't want to hear about it. Some people do want to see it, and will take from it what they wish.
We've always had a couple of guys with some pretty good inside info. People can decide what and who they believe as they wish.
It's almost like it's some kind of ego thing with some of you that someone else knows more than you do.
Get over it.
 Good Lord... all I was doing was piggy-backing off of the last line in GM's post and saying that, if you wanted to be CERTAIN you weren't going to compromise your inside source of information (and the relationship you had with that person), it would be best not to say anything about what you're told. It's simple logic really.
I don't have any issue with CoachB whatsoever. I enjoy his posts and the unique perspective he can bring to football conversations. Obviously, he takes great care to protect his sources. However, anytime you talk about something you've been told in private, you're taking a risk (however small). It wouldn't be for me, that's all. I'd be too paranoid that somebody would be able to figure it out.
Chill out already...
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Oh sure Diam, make him think it's me calling
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Posts: 27,306
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
Quote:
... or better yet, keep it to yourself altogether. I know that, if I had inside sources, I wouldn't be splattering what they told me on public message boards out of respect for those friendships to begin with. But that's just me. ::shrug::
Nor would Coach, as he is very careful about what he says, as am I.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Thank god I know nothing
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,306 |
OK Sargent Schultz
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
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Lemme say something..I don't need Coach to verify anything..I know whether he's legid or not..people just need to respect his stand, that he can't give out info..
This whole situation is nothing more than a grandstand..
If you take one thing away remember this..
"As to the reason for the hospitalization, Savage said that the team and Winslow had agreed that the information would be kept confidential. Though Savage didn’t address whether the reason given by Winslow is the real reason, the problem with the HIPAA law as applied to this specific case is that the player can say whatever he wants to say about the reason he was in the hospital, and the team can’t say anything to the contrary."
Furthermore, in reading some of the quotes from his radio-cast, is it just me, or does it seem as though Savage kinda hinted that there's more going on with Winslow than just Staph, as in that wasn't exactly why he was in the hospital?
I'm personally wondering if the rumors about his swollen boys wasn't a little closer to the mark than we may have initially believed.
In either case, as the facts of this come out, Winslow is clearly out of line, and it's not the first time he's gone this route.
There was talk about his value in a trade.......No way a team gives up a #1 for him, especially when they get a look at his medical chart. That knee will probably fail a few teams examinations.....
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
Oh it's personal allright.
I think it would have been much better had he not addressed that situation at all.
He spent too much time and energy trying to defend his action.It's over with,let's move on to Sunday's game.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
No it's not just you..the boy is grandstanding.. Phil did say it's non football related..
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Winslow thought about asking for a
trade/SUSPENDED FOR 1 GAME
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