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It is pretty evident that the Browns offense runs alot more smoothly with Heiden at tight end, and I don't see how we can bench him with the way our offense has played with him in his two starts. However, Winslow is returning this week, and we can't bench him either.
IMO the Browns should start playing Winslow in the slot alot like we used Joe Jurevicius last year. JJ was a big part of our offense last year, and we are hurting this year without him, and honestly, I don't see him coming back this year at all. Playing Winslow in that role would not only help our offense, but it would add years onto Winslow's career. He takes a pounding at tight end, and he has got bad knees already, playing him at wide receiver might add 2 years onto his career.
What do you all think? I think it would be best for Winslow, and for the Browns...the only questions is...would Winslow be willing to do it?
Last edited by OgDawg; 10/26/08 10:49 PM.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Works by me. Get winslow away from the tight end position and let Heiden play it. He knows how to catch AND block. Put winslow split out. Tough for a d back to cover, and he wouldn't hurt our running game out there.
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This has been talked about quite a bit here. I think it's a great idea, but others don't for various reasons....like he's not quick enough to get separation, doesn't run accurate routes, difficulty lining up correctly etc.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
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Joe ran perfect routes and was always exactly where he was supposed to be every time. He became a master in finding the soft spot in the coverage. That's why he got so many catches for 1st downs. DA knew he would be there.
K2 ain't that kind of player. But the kind of player his is works just fine. I think too much emphisis is put on the "we do better without K2 playing TE" and "Heiden is a better TE than Winslow" talk. Sure Heiden has good hands and is a very good blocker, but no TE in the league is anywhere near the talent and athleticisim K2 is. Better blockers, yeah. But his athlecticisim is far beyone any of the others, his hands are superior to even most WR's and he does it on a bad knee to boot.
Do we need him? No. We have a team. No team needs any one player. But we're a better team with him on the field. The silly notion that we're 2-0 without him and 1-4 with him is crazy talk. That's like blaming him for the losses and giving him no credit for doing anything at all in the win.
Sometimes he's the reason we're offensivly in a game. Especially toward the end when he is depended on to make the tough catch.
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The silly notion that we're 2-0 without him and 1-4 with him is crazy talk.
So reality is crazy talk? 
I think that there is something to the fact that Anderson plays better when Kellen is not on the field. Maybe Anderson is forcing it to him, maybe Kellen is too demanding for the ball, I do not know.
I do know that if we used him as a 3rd WR and then traded him in the offseason, I think I would be happy.
you had a good run Hank.
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Heiden is a better tight end, he is the whole package, hands, blocking, and smart. However, Winslow is a playmaker, and we need to get him on the field. It is just a matter of where.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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We do run some two TE sets. And Heiden plays whenever Winslow is off the field which in some games is oftern. Heiden gets quite a bit of playing time. Maybe some are just now noticing him since he's been in the role of the playmaker more than usual.
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Winslow wants a new contract ..... and tells that to everyone who will listen. Think that he'd accept a 3rd down role?  I honestly believe that our best play is to play the year out with Winslow, then see if we can get anything for him in the off-season.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
Winslow wants a new contract ..... and tells that to everyone who will listen.
Think that he'd accept a 3rd down role?
I honestly believe that our best play is to play the year out with Winslow, then see if we can get anything for him in the off-season.
We don't have to limit him to a 3rd down role, we just need to get him out of the tight end position.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I think that there is something to the fact that Anderson plays better when Kellen is not on the field. Maybe Anderson is forcing it to him, maybe Kellen is too demanding for the ball, I do not know.
My cousin and I were talking throughout the game, and he seems to believe that Anderson doesn't have the mental capacity to deal with both Edwards and Winslow in the huddle i.e., they are both running their mouths demanding the ball. It throws him off and he tries too hard to please them.
Maybe there is some truth to that, maybe not. But I didn't think anyone but the quarterback talked in the huddle. And if others are talking, then they need to be told to shut up by the QB. Maybe there is some of this going on in the huddle and DA is not handling it well.
Just a thought.
I do believe that this wouldn't be a problem with Quinn. By all accounts, the guy is a natural leader. I believe he'd put these guys in their place.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
Quote:
I think that there is something to the fact that Anderson plays better when Kellen is not on the field. Maybe Anderson is forcing it to him, maybe Kellen is too demanding for the ball, I do not know.
My cousin and I were talking throughout the game, and he seems to believe that Anderson doesn't have the mental capacity to deal with both Edwards and Winslow in the huddle i.e., they are both running their mouths demanding the ball. It throws him off and he tries too hard to please them.
Maybe there is some truth to that, maybe not. But I didn't think anyone but the quarterback talked in the huddle. And if others are talking, then they need to be told to shut up by the QB. Maybe there is some of this going on in the huddle and DA is not handling it well.
Just a thought.
I do believe that this wouldn't be a problem with Quinn. By all accounts, the guy is a natural leader. I believe he'd put these guys in their place.
Anderson's leadership has come under fire as of late. I think it's valid as many in the media have questioned if he can still command the huddle.
There may be something to that, there may not.
you had a good run Hank.
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K2 ain't that kind of player
I'm sorry, but I am a KW2 Fan! He is a Receiving TE! I'll take him anyday over Steptoe in the slot, or Heiden at TE (Dinkins ain't even in the equation). There is a reason that Kellen is the Starter! Did you ever think that Heiden gets so open because (just maybe) he doesn't draw the double coverage that Kellen does? Team have to gameplan for Winslow, not Heiden. As far as "Shotgun" Anderson is concerned, maybe if he were more accurate, then the receivers might end up where the ball is supposed to be (not the other way around).  So all of our "Trade Winslow" fans need to take a step back, stop drinking the Opie kool-aid, and think before trading one of the best "Pro-bowl" TEs in the league!!! JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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Winslow already lines up all over the place when he plays.. maybe we'll put him in the slot a little more now, who knows. But it's not as if he's always lined up at the conventional TE spot just because that's what he's listed as.
I think if we can get this offense really rolling, Winslow can have a big impact. When Stallworth was out and Edwards was doing nothing, teams would just deck him at the line and smother him over top with a DB or athletic linebacker.. there really wasn't much he could do. And don't even get me started with blocking.. even Cribbs is 10x the blocker that Winslow is.
But open the O up a bit and get Winslow in space, and he'll be very productive again in the passing game.
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Quote:
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K2 ain't that kind of player
I'm sorry, but I am a KW2 Fan! He is a Receiving TE! I'll take him anyday over Steptoe in the slot, or Heiden at TE (Dinkins ain't even in the equation). There is a reason that Kellen is the Starter! Did you ever think that Heiden gets so open because (just maybe) he doesn't draw the double coverage that Kellen does? Team have to gameplan for Winslow, not Heiden. As far as "Shotgun" Anderson is concerned, maybe if he were more accurate, then the receivers might end up where the ball is supposed to be (not the other way around). So all of our "Trade Winslow" fans need to take a step back, stop drinking the Opie kool-aid, and think before trading one of the best "Pro-bowl" TEs in the league!!! JMHO Go Brownies!!!
What ddubia is saying is that Winslow isn't a 3rd down reciever, His routes are not percise enough. He is a great weapon and should be used as much as possible, I'm sure ddubia agrees with me on that.
Winslow is not a complete TE. He chooses not to block, something a TE can't do. He is the biggest recieving thrat we have in this league at his position, and he can continue to be as long as his knees hold out. There are other things to be considered. If he is disruptive on and off the field, that cannot be tolerated.
The offense has looked much better with him not playing. I don't think at this point that is because of him. I think that DA has looked much better those two games has more to do with his accuracy (or lack of in the other games).
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Not responding to anyone in particular, but their was no Winslow bashing or people pointing out negatives in his game, in the first 2 weeks of the season. At the time, he was the only bright spot on offense. He has no choice but to play out the year on the Browns, and should continue to contribute to this offense.
IMO, the playcalling has used more trickery on the past 2 wins, than in the ga,es Winslow has played. Maybe Chud, a huge Winslow supporter, feels he needs to use those plays when Winslow is playing, and needs trickery when hes not playing.
I would be more critical of Winslow if he was the only player on offense who hasnt played up to last years expectations. That list includes the other "Big Three" at key skill positions, #1 WR Edwards, QB Anderson, and starting RB Lewis. Heidon has also dropped some passes and made a couple of penalties.
I wouldnt mind seeing Winslow in the slot. Maybe run a couple double TE plays with Heidon and Winslow in, then the defense will more likely keep a LB in to cover Winslow. Then motion him out to the slot, forcing an LB to cover him in space and/or forcing a safety to come over and help.
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We've proved we don't need him, Hieden has done a fine job, and he BLOCKS!
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We've proved we don't need him, Hieden has done a fine job, and he BLOCKS!
No they dont "need" Winslow. But if you ask any coach or player on this team and I bet you wont find one person saying they are a better team without Winslow. He can still compete and contribute this season,like he did last year. A season when he broke the Browns Receiving Yards by a TE record. Didnt he also tie the HOFer Ozzie newsons team TD record by a TE? He also wasnt far off from making the Pro Bowl the year before. L
ike I said, nobody was saying this about Winslow in the 1st 2 weeks of the season. Against Dallas, he is the only player who did anything offensivley.
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I don't know what the rest of the responses are, so if I'm repeating something someone has said, you'll understand.......
You're assuming that Winslow can run routes like a WR. He can't. Even though Joe is slower, he's a better route runner than Winslow. Though they both "catch passes" the two positions are much different, especially when it comes to receiving and route running.
As far as stating Winslow takes more of a pounding as a TE, you're assuming that he blocks
Winslow is and always will be a TE. Though I've said for years that Heiden is a better all-around TE, that doesn't mean we aren't a better team with Winslow on the bench or at a different position. I've lobbied for a two-TE set for years.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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but their was no Winslow bashing or people pointing out negatives in his game, in the first 2 weeks of the season.
I beg to differ.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I didn't see Ozzie getting retarded offencive interference penalties because he thinks he is allowed to run over DB's 10 yards down field. didnt' see him killing drives with stupid offencive holding calls when another WR makes a first down catch. I also remember Ozzie consistantly blocking to help the running game.
We are better without him. J. Lewis' top two rushing yardage games have been without K2 btw. Heiden Has good hands and makes good catches that move the chains when needed. Your analogy might work better if you said, would u rather have shannon sharp or mark bavaro?
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I have no problem at all with your recommendation.
Actually I second it.
While Winslow does not have the speed or the skills of a WR, he does have the size and the body position to front a slot defender.
Add that to a blocker that as a TE is weak is strong as a slot kid.
I hope RAC and his kids really digests this. I'm positive they've mulled it over more than 10,000 times. Time to implement Chud.
Winslow > Stubtoe
Especially on running plays with down blocks!!!! Hello! Read this!
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I didn't see Ozzie getting retarded offencive interference penalties
Maybe not, but when Ozzie played, it wasn't such a "Touchy-Feely, Mamby-Pamby, Mama'sBoy" league either. Bump & Run/ Snot-Bubble Football was the game. IMO, Winslow is in that mold of a TE.  JMHO Go Brownies!!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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he does have the size and the body position to front a slot defender.
His main assets include the Hands and Temperment for the position. KW2 fights to get On the field, not cry for 4 weeks about a self-inflicted strained quad. (sorry for getting off message).  JMHO Go Brownies!!!
Who Let Da Dawgs Out? Woof, Woof, Woof!!!!!
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IMO he should be used in a Herschel Walker type role.
i.e. get us a bunch of draft picks b/c he will not be around after his contract runs out. May as well get something of value in the offseason. and if he really is a superior"playmaker" as some suggest,then we should get something of high value in return.
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I agree, I want him gone at the end of the year too, but we have him this year so we might as well find some way to use him.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I still wish I could figure out why people are expressing such displeasure with Steptoe. If I remember correctly, he's made some pretty decent plays for us this season. Not bad for a 7th round pick...at all.
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Same here. Steptoe has done fine in the slot.
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Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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LOT better idea than say Rrucker in JJs role 
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protect the investment and bench him
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Run more double TE packages...motion him or Rucker out into the slot.... I wouldnt just throw him in the slot....use both him and Rucker...make the D think alittle bit.
When JJ gets back run some 4 WR sets with KW and DS in the slot...thats deadly.
I think Steptoe has some potential...but with DA...who just locks on to whoever his primary is....Steptoe is not gonna see more than a few throws per game.
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