DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Lost History and tradition since 1999

I was recently on a bengals message board undercover lol (as a bengals fan)and I mentioned teams that have tradition and history. I mentioned teams such as Browns Steelers Raiders Packers. I wanted to see how other teams percieved and replies tended to denounce browns while saying the others have a tradition of winning. I started to looking at the history of Browns records and found that prior 1999 the browns were pretty consistent yes there were some bad years and no championships since 1964 but play off were berths were pretty consistent. My question has the failure of success since the relaunch in 1999 affected our tradition

Well, there's a big problem with the whole thing. We're an expansion team with history. - That isn't the way it normally works. Usually, an expansion team (Carolina, Jacksonville, Houston) is only compared to other expansion teams. Stats, records, and things of that nature usually don't accompany expansion franchises.

Prior to 1999, we were one of the most storied franchises in the history of the game. 4 NFL Championships, 4 AAFC Championships, an undefeated season, the best running back in the history of the NFL, - we had it all. A tradition of winning, much like the one in Dallas, New England, etc.

When we came back, people expected the franchise that had the history of winning, but what they got was an expansion team. I think people understood at first that it would take a little time to get back to where they used to be, but, eventually, these people lost sight of the fact that this is simply an expansion team. The franchise that used to be here (Ravens) won a Superbowl in 2000 and is routinely in the playoffs.- Over 60 years of development to their advantage. -Like it or not, that's our team. The money that Browns fans spent on season tickets in the 1940's,50's,60's,70's,and 90's contributed to the development of that franchise that now plays in Baltimore, and therefore, we should have a share of that championship, heck, that's Cleveland's championship - 60 years in the making and WE PAID FOR IT!!!!!

In a way, being an expansion team with history is kind of troubling for us fans. We are always reminded that we aren't what we used to be, but, again, technically, we aren't what we used to be.

However, the blessing in all of this is that the history, colors, name, and tradition remained in their rightful place.

Nail on Head Muni,,, that about sums it up.

we may have kept the colors and the history, but we had to start it all over...

i think i brought this point up before...

and maybe it doesn't hold, maybe it does... you can really decide for yourself...

but think about teams like the bears, their current guys, have learned from guys, who learned from guys, who learned from guys, etc... who learned from guys like walter payton, dick butkus, gale sayers, bill george, mike singletary... etc...

there is a pedigree there..

we had that. we had groza, brown, kelly, motley, graham, warfield, kosar, etc...

while we kept our colors and records, that can't be replaced.

the front office did a horrible job of restarting things, rebuilding the foundation, and i think our current group is doing a much better job.

but no, even though we haven't won a championship since '64, they still have one of the best traditions in the nfl. people around cleveland, and around the world generally care about the browns, win or lose, you won't find that with many other teams who have years of struggling.

Nope to the original question, Brown and Orange forever!!!!!!!!!! The only tradition that goes on longer in my family is military service, which stems back before the Civil War.

Quote:

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We were, and we are the Cleveland Browns. We were blind sided and knocked down in the 90's But the Browns just like us fans are a tough bunch, and we are back on our feet and ready to fight. The Browns are still number 1 in our hearts.

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DARN RIGHT......To me its not about before 1999 or after.....Its about being a CLEVELAND BROWN.....I dont care if they put on the orange helment 20 years ago or last Sunday, you put on the helment you put on tradition you put on history....A player better realize he puts on that helments he's not only protecting his head, he's putting on centurys of history, he's respresenting every Browns fan alive or dead around the world. To me and I know to others it's not just a helment, it's not just a team it's part of us.it's something that for many is handed down from family member to family memmber...it flows in our vains it's a felling that unless you feel it you cant understand it. being a Cleveland Brown isnt a before or after thing, it isnt about prior to, those are excuses, I was still a Browns fan when we didnt have a team, so to me there is no before or after or new, I always was and always will be, to me there was no stop in the Cleveland Browns, We just didnt play games for a few years, But We where there....The Browns are more than players....more than an owner, it's about us fans and believe me as long as there was one Browns fan standing & screaming we were around, those sundays of no football, I wore Brown & Orange, I wore my Browns jersey, my Jacket, my Browns hat, & I know many of you did too...See with that we were never gone.....we just didnt play on Sunday...

Very true.

But, how long does it take an expansion team to get it's legs under it and running?

This is what? Our 9th season? We should be more stable than we are.

I just wish we would have followed the Carolina or Jacksonville expansion path, were as it looks more like we are following the Houston path, even though they came in after us.

If you remember, we couldn't follow the Carolina and Jacksonville path because the owners made it much more difficult on us and the Texans as expansion teams after they were embarrassed by the Panthers and Jaguars making their conference championship games in their 2nd years.

Plus, we were behind from the start when the wrong front office got picked to start our franchise. Hopefully, our current structure is the right one to build a consistent winner and provide us the stability we crave.

I will say this both Muni and GM hit the nails on the head..I will also say that you guys woulda been proud of the way the Browns fans in Jax represented Sunday..I was there and I left hoarse. A nailbiter that was, in a way, a continueing of the Browns tradition..

Agreed... the only thing I'd add is that the Browns weren't even given the time the Texans had to get themselves organized. I think it has been mentioned before, but if you want to get a good picture of the foundation of our struggles in coming back into the league, I highly suggest Terry Pluto's book "False Start." It's a real gem, IMO.

Beat me to it!

by 5 minutes I might add.

We're we given less time because they didn't know any better, or because, like many fans, people saw the Browns not as an expansion team, but as a rebuilding team, because of the history?

Kind of like a mental thing. Even today, I still have trouble thinking of '99 as an "expansion team", even though in every sense, they were.

What can I say... I'm a S-L-O-W typist.

There are alot of variables with what has happened between the end of the 95 season and the 99 season to date.

1. The game was changing at that time. Free agency was new, implemented in 1993, salary cap was new, implemented a year later in 1994, neither of which had a dramatic affect on the Browns prior to the move. When the Browns returned in 1999, both were in full swing. It changed the face of what of football was in our time with the Browns. Players now come and go like its cool, no longer (quality) players staying with the team for years and years.

2. Then the fans....
There are/were basically 3 kinds of Browns fans now.
2a - The Fans that are "new" fans, they have no memory of any of the tradition you speak of. They never witnessed a quality Browns team, all they know is mediocrity.
2b - The old school fans who became very bitter over the move and still won't let it go and feel these "new" Browns are not their Browns. They still "root" for the Browns, but have lost the love affair they once had. And since all they know is mediocrity.
2c - The old school fans who were bitter about the move, but got over it. They see these Browns as their Browns, but since the return all they know is mediocrity.

3. Atmosphere, some like it, some hate it, either way, different atmosphere at Cleveland Browns stadium that what we had at the old municipal stadium.

4. Lost rivalries. Sure, we have a rivalry against all the teams in our division, but the move made it different. We have a rivalry for obvious reasons against the Ravens. The Steelers however, its just not the same, that rivalry moved to Baltimore with the original team. That rivalry will not be rekindled fully until the Browns and Steelers split every year for a few years, with the Browns and Steelers fighting for the division title. Since the return we have been owned by the Steelers.