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This team isn't better off without Winslow, at least on the field
But you then said:
We aren't strapped against the cap, and we won't be hurting if we move him.
O.k..got it..IMO, we'll be hurt in the passing game..but Rucker was drafted for a reason..and it wasn't just because he has talent..he's a similar player to KW..and healthier..and Phil knew at the time the future of Winslow is cloudy..
I do agree there's no way they should do anything to his contract.
Make the guy play under it...
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/13/08 03:25 PM.
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I agree with everything U said .... Great analysis ..... The good .. 1. he is a great recieveing te ... more than likely the best in the game .. man are his hands HUGE ... The Bad ... 1. BAD KNEE .... 2. Can't block ... 3. Grand canyon sized ego ... 4. Wants new contract that he is not worth DUE TO KNEE ... and I agree that there won't be much demand for him because the KNEE combined with the new contract will drive teams away ... so he will end up here due to a lack of suitors and he damm well better be playing under this contract .. if Opie gives him a new one i will be sorely dissapointed in him .... with that said ... Quote:
everyone is going to understand that Quinn needs Winslow far more than Anderson or other QB's might.
*LOL* ......
Quote:
Quinn needs him, and Savage knows it,
and just to drive the point home ... U said again ...
now why in the world does BQ need him more than DA or other QB's would??? ..
man am I looking forward to the spin on this one .. *LOL* ...
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Sorry, mum's the word 
Of course you allready know why. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I asked a question so your not technically breaking your word .. and if u still think u are ... spin in to a BQ thing instead of a KW thing and then U are not breaking your word .. and we all know how gifted U are at spin ... *L* .. there I gave U your out to answer me ... if that still don't work ... PM me ... and I can tell u why your wrong in there instead of here .. cause I really have no clue why U feel my boy needs the ego more than DA or most other QB's do ...
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Quote:
and I agree that there won't be much demand for him because the KNEE combined with the new contract will drive teams away ...
But then again? There was Jeromy Shockey..............
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Oh, if you're letting me off on a technicality............ 
Quinn is essentially a rookie QB, and who's the QB's best friend? The Tight End.
When you factor in his inexperience and the questions about his accuracy past the shorter routes it stands to reason that Quinn needs Winslow more than someone like Anderson might.  We saw just how the gameplan changed to the shorter passes on a short week, which clearly shows that his inexperience needs someone to work the shorter throws and middle such as Winslow.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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So how is that relivant to next season?
ANY young QB needs a TE with good hands until the point the playbook can be openned up.
He had FOUR DAYS to prepare as our starter. How can you equate that, or even suggest that the same will be valid going into next year?
Which IS what the entire KW issue is about, is it not?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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theres some TRUTH to that ... BUT ... no QB especially a young, SMART one needs a TE that is going to cost us time outs on a weekly basis because he does not know where to line up ... and the QB reallyhas no clue where KW will end up on any certain route ... I forgot to add FOOTBALL DUMB to the negatives .... and Opie and RAC were in agreement with me in my boys ACCURACY as opposed to U and your FEW PUNDITS and there questions .. because U see ... if Opie/RAC agreed with your SILLY PUNDITS and U that my boy had accuracy issues .... I highly doubt we would have given up as much as we did to get him ... I mean really Toad ... your way smarter than that ... your synopsis according to that post is: Opie/RAC/Chud have accuracy questions about my boy because in his first start on a short week they went with alot of short stuff .. now according to U that FAR OUTWEIGHS what they gave up to get him .....  *LOL* .... U usually don't open the door that far ..
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I just want to say that scouts aren't always right. There is no deyning that Quinn went through a free fall. Some of it had to do with teams not needing QBS. Some of it had to do with risk and reward factor. Buffallo and Miami both had 2nd round picks targeted. Looks like Buffallo deciding to wait and get Edwards might work out. Not sure where Beck fits in Miami's future plans.
I have not seen nearly enough of Quinn to say if he has accuracy problems. I remember stats from certain games in college but I don't trust those stats without seeing those games. I do remember him having to run for his life during some of Notre Dame's games. These were lower tier teams that he was playing against.
From what little I have seen from him in Cleveland, he seems to be plenty accurate, at least on his shorter throws. I have no idea how accurate he is on the longer throws because he simply hasn't thrown that many. Is that by design because the Browns think he plays better in the short game? Could it just be because of the situations we have seen him in it has just been more practical?
These are a couple of questions I have. I don't think we will know for a while how much difference the offense will be. I don't know how many points we can score or how fast we can score them.
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He did go into a freefall....but as everyone will remember...it was due to him playing Russell in the sugar bowl.
It wasnt so much Quinn was dropping, as it was Jamarcus was rising and there were not alot of teams outside of us and Miami that were possible landing spots. Oakland was sold of Jamarcus...
Miami was stupid taking Ginn...its not a slam on BQ because the idiots in Miami wanted Ginn.
As everyone will note...Russell was the sweetheart of the scouts, and aced his workouts...and everyone was awed by his monster arm and again, how he beat Quinn head to head.
Nobody was taking into accout surrounding talent..or BRAINS...and sorry Jamarcus is nowhere near the WORKER Quinn is. And he is not even in the same ballpark in terms of intelligence and football savy.
Quinn dropped because Russell...because late in the year scouts and teams throw out what happened over a players career based on the bowl games and workouts...which usually bites a few teams in the butt.
Quinn was the best prospect going into the sugarbowl and was the best bet before the workouts started. Quinn will better in the long run *ecause he is a hardworker and is a smart kid.
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not only the talent Russell had on the offensive side of the ball, but Russell got to play ND's defense in that game while Quinn had to play LSU's defense.
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Russell hardly aced his workouts ... on his pro day he was throwing the ball all over the place ..... at one point the reporter who was talking about his pro day from behind the benches had a pass skid by him .. *LOL* ...
Ruseell has the things U can't teach ... ROCKET ARM .... height ... stength ... he's the prototypical QB that all GM's drool over because of his physical skills .... .
now I have never been a Russell fan and think he will be a VERY WELL BELOW AVERAGE NFL QB ... but that remains to be determined ... we can talk in about 3 or 4 years about that one ...
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Quote:
now I have never been a Russell fan and think he will be a VERY WELL BELOW AVERAGE NFL QB
You're being generous.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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You're being generous.......
Me????? .... U sure about that .... 
Can U make that your signature for those that missed it ... cause they will never believe it ... Me being generous ... 
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The coach does his job but the players want to be super stars. They should give a superstar effort at all times.Don't blame the coach for your own failures,play the game the way you were taught for the peewee's to the college level. If you say you're the best play like it.Give a hundred and fifty percent effort all the time,leave it all on the field.Don't blame the coach.
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Russell is a guy that I wouldn't have taken in the 1st round of last year's draft, let alone the first pick.
I think the very fact that Montgomery Burns would take him #1 is indictment enough
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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play the game the way you were taught (from) the peewee's to the college level
Welcome member 1234.
Exactly right. Sometimes people make it seem like young players never played the game before they got on our team. These QB's have been slinging the ball since theyz babies. And the runners running, the receivers catching, etc., etc.
Yeah, the NFL speed is a little different, because EVERYBODY'S fast and good (or REALLY good). But with a little playing time with the starters they'll get it down (or else they won't and will be pizza makers - the world needs pizza makers too).
On a different note: I was wondering how long it was going to take Romeo to come out against Ray Lewis and Josh Cribbs. Obviously, them saying that guys quit was not a good reflection on Romeo. And now, after talking to Romeo, the players wish they'd handled it differently. (Of course, you got talked to by the coach!) - But if someone like JL said it, he must be seeing it somewhere. And back to what campb said - play the game the way you were taught. 100+%
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Kinda cool that you noticed he was member 1234.
Some people are questioning BQ's accuracy because of all the short throws. Maybe RAC and Chud learned a little something from the Patriots. When Cassel took over this year the game plan was simple and filled with short passes. Then they started some more aggressive throws come his game 3 and advanced the playbook after that. A very similar strategy that they used a few years ago when Tom Brady took over for Bledsoe.
Maybe our coaches do know a thing or two about bringing a young Qb along. Then again maybe BQ just hit the open man and didn't force anything (by the way DA would still have his job if he could have figured out how to hit the open receiver even if short and not force anything).
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Quote:
On a different note: I was wondering how long it was going to take Romeo to come out against [Jamal] Lewis and Josh Cribbs. Obviously, them saying that guys quit was not a good reflection on Romeo. And now, after talking to Romeo, the players wish they'd handled it differently. (Of course, you got talked to by the coach!) - But if someone like JL said it, he must be seeing it somewhere.
web page
ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski chimes in on Browns
by Mary Kay Cabot, Plain Dealer Reporter
Thursday November 13, 2008, 7:11 AM
ESPN analyst Ron Jaworski studied coaches' films of the Browns' 34-30 loss to Denver last Thursday and agreed with Jamal Lewis and Josh Cribbs that some Browns quit.
Asked specifically if he saw anyone quit, he said: "Yes. If you want to get players' attention, mention the word quit. I saw it mentioned by some of the Browns players, so I looked at it very carefully. I don't ever use the word. I just say 'lack of enthusiasm to play the game.'
"I kind of soften it a little bit, but some of the Browns players -- they didn't mess around. There were some situations -- and I'm not going to name names, because it's not my place to do
that -- but there were some guys that I would say lacked enthusiasm play-in and play-out."
He said he'll have an eye on those players during Monday night's game at Buffalo and will point it out during the broadcast if he sees it again.
"That's my job," he said. "It's not my job now to call guys out, but I think the Browns players did a real good job of making it clear. They look at the same tape that I look at. When I see it, they see it."
To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:
mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Jaws is the first one I've heard that agreed that some quit..
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RAC and Phil arent gonna agree....if they do...guess who gets the finger pointed at them.
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I listened to Grossi's podcast just now, and he's clearly had enough with Crennel. He didn't out-and-out blast him, but about the only good thing he had to say was that at least he isn't Mike Singletary
When asked about Harrison, Grossi said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that he's heard Crennel say before that Harrison gets touches then dissapears, and that he'll work him into the game plan the next week..........only to see it happen again. His tone of phrase was in the mode of "Yeah, sure, heard it before, whatever."
Of course I don't believe Grossi to be as smart as he thinks of himself, but I think everyone has just-about thrown in the towell with Crennel. He's on life-support.
As for Grossi, well, he was forced to admit his record this year on picking the winner of Browns games is........... 1-8 Jezuz........a monkey pickin' out of a hat couldn't do worse
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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As for Grossi, well, he was forced to admit his record this year on picking the winner of Browns games is........... 1-8
...geez,..and I thought I was doing bad with 3-6.
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Really my friend....I don't see why we are even keeping the guy around""
Is there any real chance the guy makes it much past the Super Bowl as our head coach??
I would have canned him a long time ago....but in light of everything that has happened....players claiming and agreeing that other players have packed it in.....that is a clear sign he's lost the players...or a portion of them, and Cribbs and Lewis are a pretty big portion..players don't say that sort of stuff unless they are pretty sure the coach isn't going to be around next year to cut them on the last day after a hard camp.
Just get rid of him...I honestly believe Romeo would be relieved.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Really my friend....I don't see why we are even keeping the guy around
If we can him now, we have to offer up an interim head coach...most likely a sacrificial one. I imagine if we are entertaining any thought of keeping Chud around it would be Tucker...and the team would tank. Miserably.
I do think a lot of these guys trust and have faith in Crennel...for awhile we thought he made men out of Winslow and Edwards. That's no reason to keep him, but firing him at this point just lowers the sails and drifts us into five wins...if we getting this team to 7-9 and or 8-8 is important...I know you're a Super-Bowl-or-Failure guy, and I respect that ideology...but I think 5-11 would send our team into a morale funk...that's one more problem for the new HC.
Of course...there's the fear that if RAC hits 7-9 he'll still be around...which in the long run may be worse than muffing the rest of the year.
FWIW I betcha if RAC gets canned Old Man McGinest goes down for the career.
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j/c Ya know, all this talk by us and the media of The End Of Romeo is truly sad. I mean, it's not like getting rid of Butch Davis. Romeo is a nice guy. He's real. He's loyal. He's trustworthy. He's a man of character...and I wish he didn't have to be going through this. Having said that, I'm not a big fan of his 'in game' decision making and other decisions that I do not feel like getting into. What happens after he's gone (if it happens)? We ring out the old and bring in the new. Perhaps the new guy wants to go back to a 4-3 D.  (retooling) Will he be a weasel like Shannahan? A loonie like Ditka? A wimp like Pete Carroll (the players ruled that Pats team...and they stunk)? It's scary...even though it might be needed.
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Romeo is a nice guy. He's real. He's loyal. He's trustworthy. He's a man of character...
I wouldn't disagree with a word you said...but those things will not win you football games.
I feel for the guy...I do. I think I probably gave him a longer leash because of those attributes...but I think he may have laid his last card.
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I mean, it's not like getting rid of Butch Davis.
You are right....Butch was a better coach...as hard as that is to say.
I suppose Phil is right....might as well keep the negative talk pointed at the guy already standing on the end of the plank.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You all are forgetting about our 7-0 finish this season. 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You're right, we've forgotten that. And I started a thread regarding that. Ballpeen - I don't know that BD was a better coach. He jumped in at draft time and insisted on making bad picks, he played to not lose games (which we lost most times) instead of playing to win. He was a liar, etc., etc. I didn't like him at all.
AL 29 76 14 R_K
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I didn't like him either...he's still a better coach IMO.
I doubt RAC is going to head up some other team after he leaves here....
EO...I guess he could stay if we win out and then win a playoff game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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He will stay if we go 7-9..........to the bemoans of most of you guys....lol.
No way he gets fired if we finish around .500 against this schedule after getting an extension.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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"EO...I guess he could stay if we win out and then win a playoff game."
But he'll still be the same coach that you are 100% sure of not being able to coach.
So it has nothing to do with coaching prowess, organization, etc....its all about the wims of a fan influenced by the current record.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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You're right, Butch is a better coach. The only way we see the playoffs with Romeo coaching is on TV, I'm afraid. As far as winning the last 7 games........eo, I want what you're taking or smoking. I know you're the eternal optimist, but man, you must have missed the first 9 games....... I said when DA was starting that I thought 5 wins might be our destiny. With Quinn playing I might revise that to 6 games but no more than that. Not with the famous "Sieve Defense" backing up the length of the field 5 times every week.
Last edited by Referee1; 11/16/08 08:30 AM.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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But he'll still be the same coach that you are 100% sure of not being able to coach.
So it has nothing to do with coaching prowess, organization, etc....its all about the wims of a fan influenced by the current record.
You misunderstood my comment.
When I said "I guess" he could stay....it was as in "is possible".
Me...I would have canned him before last year.
That feeling hasn't changed.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Just clicking...
Bring in JIM FASSEL!!!
"The Browns are a club contenders probably don't want to face right now. Their physicality cannot be questioned."
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Just clicking...
Bring in JIM FASSEL!!!
Hell no.
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Quote:
Quote:
Just clicking...
Bring in JIM FASSEL!!!
Hell no.
^ Coming from the guy who wants Brian Billick 
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Billick has the Superbowl ring that Fassel doesn't have.
I also want Cowher more than anyone to coach this team. I don't "want Billick," I just think he's a better option than Fassel or anyone else among the "former coaches not named Cowher"
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OK....Here is my .02.....
IF (i know, i know), we are to win out...may people would be back on the RAC bandwagon. Including the ownership, GM, media, and "some" fans.
However, I feel that if we can AT LEAST make this season respectable, we STILL GET RID of RAC! People will say, "look what they did against this schedule, and how we turned in the 2nd half."
I say, look at the talent we have, look at the schedule, and despite ... poor coaching, look what we were able to do.
Get rid of him no matter what! He is NOT an NFL coach.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The End of Romeo Crennel
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