|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Bingo. You nailed it, and that's something that I think is unfortunate here. The reasons why I feel it's unfortunate have allready been hashed out, which speaks to why I think he's nearing the end of his term. If it isn't his call to make, there's no shame in saying it was a group decision, so he shouldn't be so adamant that he's the one calling the shots. Afterall, plenty of GM's talk with their coaches and make group decisions. So why is it a problem here? Is the team trying to make RAC look more in control than he really is? Are they trying to NOT make it look as though Savage is involved in the process?
The entire thing stinks, and it stands a real chance of blowing up in their combined faces. Here's to hoping Quinn can remain under center as the team wins the game, because the alternative...........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807 |
Quote:
I expect that behavior from Pit .. he's the king of over reaction and the Vice President or President (him and Peenie keep switching positions in that one ..... and Toad is going to run for office in this election
Coming from a guy who makes a season prediction thread but refuses to commit in it?
Oh, that's rich.
Yeah, tossing a coin to see who you're going to start is a very professional way of making a decision on your starter. And a great PR move.
The excuse machine keeps on rolling.......................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Quote:
It was a joke. He said he can't go in at QB if Brady fails.
Didn't sound like a joke to me Hel, he sounded exasperated...there was no mirth in his comment at all.
Just watched the latest version of Sportscentre and the the little montage of Quinn and the draft....it showed Romeo's comment again (and the beat Denver one.) the 2 presenters kinda took the mick of him saying sarcastically that it was a "great vote of confidence in Quinn".
He sounded like a buffoon.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
We'll never know for sure who or how the decision was made.
How should it have been made? - Remember, Phil made statements in the off season as to how DA WAS THE STARTER.
1) Romeo decides and tells Phil then the team.
2) Romeo, Phil and whoever discuss it and it's ultimately left to Romeo to decide.
That's about it.
- THE COIN FLIP.
Much has been made over this. And I'm one of them. BUT THAT WAS BECAUSE I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IT WAS TO DETERMINE WHO WOULD BE THE OPENNING DAY STARTER.
People are NOW saying that it was to determine the starter of the first preseason game. That is not how I remember it being presented way back when. Of course it's not an issue if it was a camp coin flip.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
How should it have been made? - Remember, Phil made statements in the off season as to how DA WAS THE STARTER.
And now, it's Crennel who's saying his benching was his own decision.
There-in lies the problem......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,406
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,406 |
I guess we can narrow it down to everyone but Kellen.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,044 |
the coin flip was who gets the start for the first PRESEASON game. no way for the regular season. here's some proof: Quote:
Coin flip will determine starting QB
Jeff Walcoff, Staff Writer
08.09.2007
Earlier in the week when asked who would start at quarterback in the team's preseason opener vs. Kansas City Saturday -- Charlie Frye or Derek Anderson -- Browns head coach Romeo Crennel said he was going to flip a coin to decide.
At first it didn't appear as if he was serious. Rather, it was simply a way of saying it didn't matter who the starter was in terms of indicating who's ahead in the battle for the starting job.
But if he isn't serious, Crennel certainly isn't relenting.
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=7063
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807 |
It was a coaching decision by a multi million dollar NFL franchise HC.
And a quarter determind it rather than the HC.
He has improved on that sort of thing. He learned a lesson from it and grew from it.
That's the bottom line.
I can get a six year old on a playground to flip a coin.
I'm quite sure RAC gets paid to make tough decisions, not flip coins to make them. Excuses and BS be damned on that one.
But he's gotten better at making deciseive calls. And that's what really counts.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
And now, it's Crennel who's saying his benching was his own decision.
There-in lies the problem......
If he does have final say who plays and who sits then there is no problem.
Savage said in his last presser, some weeks ago, that he has weekly meetings with RAC and with RAC and the coaching staff. That only makes a ton of sense. He needs to know what's going on in the eyes of the football people.
In addition, we all have to believe that they have other sit-downs for various reasons. I believe they've been discussing this QB issue all along. How could they not? They've got an incumbant who's up and down and a 1st round pick on the bench. I'd be both surprised and disappointed if they didn't discuss this, among other things, after every game.
So they have their discussions and the staff weighs in as well and in the end, the head coach takes everything into account and decides to sit DA and play Quinn starting tonight.
If it doesn't work that way in every organization I'd be real surprised.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Quote:
The excuse machine keeps on rolling.......................
as does the over reacting and the witch hunt ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
NRTU Diam (though I'm sure you'll be weighing in  ).......
Well, well, well. Let's see what we have here.............
Offense plays well enough to win: CHECK.
QB plays well enough to win up until the last drive of the game: CHECK.
Defense turns out to be the culprit: CHECK.
Unfortunately for RAC, when Quinn, who did the job they asked him to do, was forced to try and win the game on the last drive, he froze up like a 1st-time starter almost always will.
So where do we sit now? Nobody can blame Quinn for not winning the game. The PROBLEM, as I laid out at various points during all this, is that this move put a TOTALLY GREEN QB under center tonight who had not an ounce of experience.
So when the totally green QB freezes up on the last drive of the game, who should take the blame?
How about the guy who put him in that position to begin with:
ROMEO A. CRENNEL
Hey, I can't say that Anderson would have been able to lead the Browns back on that last drive. What I CAN say is that Quinn probably rolled out on 1st down when he didn't have to. What I CAN say is that Quinn threw a ball into the dirt on 3rd down. What I CAN say is that he fired a fastball at Winslow who was WAY WAY too close to be trying to react to a pass that fast. And what I CAN say is that Crennel's decision to start Quinn, a decision born out of the desperate belief that Quinn would be able to do what Anderson couldn't, which is win the game in the clutch, has FAILED.
And RAC should pay the price for that decision.
This move failed. It didn't fail in regard to how Quinn played most of the game, but then again, that wasn't why Anderson was benched. The move failed because we put a rookie QB in a position to have to act like an experienced QB, and he couldn't. It's not his fault. It's RAC's.
Throw dirt on Crennel. This is the nail in the coffin. We're out of the playoffs, and Quinn won't get to play such a powderpuff defense the rest of the way in. He'll get the valuable experience he needs, but he better not get used to Crennel on the sideline. RAC made the call, he'll pay the price.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 94
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 94 |
So you're saying that Anderson was benched because he couldn't win games, not because he played poorly? You don't see the latter kind of influencing the former? Because typically, when DA had a bad game, it was an entire game of ugliness. BQ had a bad final series, you're right about that (although Winslow should have caught that pass). But I personally feel like BQ does bring a lot of things into the equation that DA does not. Avoiding a pass rush is one of the biggest and was showcased well tonight. We'll win with Brady.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,517 |
What you can do,and maybe should do,is ask yourself why on 3rd and 1 and then 4th and 1,did the browns not try and get a 1st down.
Chud is one helluva play designer,but the guy don't know ... about football.
Get the 1st down,then move on.
I hate like hell to say this,but it's time to clean house.Both coordinators,HC,and GM.Time for them to move on.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I'll weigh in to laugh at U and thats about it .... I mean we may have been up by 14 or down by 14 if DA played .. WHO KNOWS ... so your scenario about WHAT IF is rendered mute ..
*LOL* .. I said I would laugh at U ... so there it is ...
I mean if u wanna PLAY WHAT IF ... maybe if we played BQ after the bye last year LIKE I WANTED TO ... we would be 6 - 3 now ... WHO KNOWS .. I know that is stupid ... but how much dumber is it than u wanting to play WHAT IF on the LAST SERIES ...
nice try ... you have officially taken Peenie and Pit's place as the president of the lynch mob ...
Hel your the new VP .. cause it will be funny watching U say RAC should be fired for not putting BQ in earlier ....
my boy played OK ... he didn't play near as good as most are going to say he did ... he played OK ...
and this is for U my four legged friend .. one thing he was for sure ... he was WAY MORE CONSISTENT THAN the one U would have played ....
thats the last shot I will take at DA .. hes a good guy and deserves better .. just had to do it one time for U ...
Oh and by the way .. I have watched the NFL network and NFL lives post game and NOT ONE OF THEM HAS MENTIONED THE PASS BEING THROWN TO HARD ... EVERYONEOF THEM IS ALL OVER KW ...
guess your RAC hating glasses maade it look harder than it was ..
continue with your witch hunt ... I'm done ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
How you can say this is on RAC because he made the move to Brady is beyond me. Brady looked great tonight and proved why everyone has been saying he should be the starter. Was he nervous on the last drive? Yes. Would DA have been any less nervous with all of his years of experience? Please see last game in similar situation and it was a pick six. Could Kellen have come up with that last pass even though it was a heater? I say he catches that 9 times out of 10. If Brady wins the game, as he should have with any number of plays made defensively, then he has a warm-up game under his belt with 10 days to get ready for his next game.
Brady is clearly a better player than Anderson and the move came too late, not too early.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
Please see last game in similar situation and it was a pick six.
Ouch! 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
I know you dont care....but you are losing alot of respect here on your rant.  Winslow drops a easy one for a first and the drive goes on. Plain and simple.....Who knows from there. Your rant is reaching dude....let it go. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I mean if u wanna PLAY WHAT IF ...
You're so far off base it's not even funny.
I'm in the OPPOSITE of "what if." I'm in the HERE AND NOW.
We switched QB's so that when we could win a game, the quarterback would be the spark that Anderson wasn't.
The rookie played well until the last drive, then he played LIKE A ROOKIE.
That decision in on RAC, and he pays the price.
You're wrong. Dead wrong.
Quote:
nice try ... you have officially taken Peenie and Pit's place as the president of the lynch mob ...
I've been there for two years. Now I'm just going to be more vocal about it 
Quote:
Oh and by the way .. I have watched the NFL network and NFL lives post game and NOT ONE OF THEM HAS MENTIONED THE PASS BEING THROWN TO HARD ... EVERYONEOF THEM IS ALL OVER KW ...
Then blame it on the drop, blame it on the line, blame it on anything you like, but the FACT remains:
Putting in Quinn failed to do what RAC wanted it to do. *shrug* Nobody has to like it. They do have to accept it.
By the way, what caused him to throw that pass right into the ground? Think it was nerves from a rookie QB? No?
Quinn did what they asked him to do against a PUTRID defense, one that can only be outshined (or outstunk) by our own. He dinked and dunked his way down the field without making monumental, boneheaded plays, and handed the ball off when necessary. But asking him to WIN the game on the last drive is too much, and THAT'S where Crennel's gamble petered out.
PS: If you think this is about saying Anderson would have done what Quinn couldn't, you're being blinded by the tone of my prose. When it was time to win the game, Quinn couldn't because he got a little squirmish. That's what I'd expect a rookie to be, which is why I was afraid of putting him in there to begin with.
Quote:
continue with your witch hunt ... I'm done ...
No, your not. I know you well enough by now my friend  All the hammering on RAC will eventually make you crack, especially when I'm going to be doing much of the hammering. I'm giving you a free pass.
*POOF!!!!!!*
There, you never said it. When you decide to vent, it's ok, go for it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
Quote:
The rookie played well until the last drive, then he played LIKE A ROOKIE.
Dead wrong my friend. He put the ball in position for a catch and the catch wasn't made.
I have been reading you for many years and i will have to say with all respect.....your acting like a rookie on this subject. The evidence is not there...matter of a fact...the evidence shows he made the play...KW2 didn't.
Your reaching brother......
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
RAC put the QB in that gave us the best chance to succeed. DA would not have done any better. Quinn's short pass on 3rd down looked like every other one of DA's passes with no pressure.
I think once you are done choking on the crow you are trying to swallow, you will admit that you are happy that the Quinn era is here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Did he roll out when he didn't have to on 1st down?
Did he or did he not fire one right into the ground on 3rd down? (I'm going off of memory inside a sports-bar, so I may have the down mixed up).
Winslow bailed him out on two great catches that were low earlier in the game, but not even Winslow could bail that low throw out.
And while Diam and others may disagree, Winslow's hands got up a little late on that last pass which looked far too fast to me. A more veteran QB will take just enough off that ball to make it easier to catch. That's why people torched Anderson. Besides, what's Winslow going to say?
"Brady needs to learn to take something off a throw that short."
He isn't Edwards, afterall.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
Quote:
Winslow's hands got up a little late on that last pass which looked far too fast to me.
Nope. His hands were right where they should have been. The ball went right through his hands. I think Winslow would tell you he can make that catch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 786 |
Point well taken...but you can fine tooth comb all 32 qbs in the league on all there throws too and say some were short and to hard or not with enough touch and all 32 dont put together last minute drives without some outstanding help from the team. KW2 lost this one. If you rewatch it on the replay....KW2 had plenty of time to make the catch. He just didn't make the play(i watched it several times) The throw in the ground looked alot like DA on most all his dump passes but in the end a good last minute drive is not allways perfect...it is accomplished my all 11 making the plays when called upon. KW2 didn't........he makes the catch and its 1st down and we have no idea how Quinn might have played after that. It comes down to Quinn doing his part with the play called and from all 11 men doing there jobs. Quinn made the right read and put the ball accurate and on time....KW2 just wasnt. Plain as can be when you watch the replay Toad. 
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520 |
Toad your right.. but your also WRONG. Quinn couldn't win it in the end just like DA didn't but he DID make a comeback and except for a missed catch by Winslow they may still have won. Was Quinn perfect ? Heck no. But he looked better in his FIRST start than DA has most of the year. What we are saying is we THINK we may have found a natural QB that makes plays most of the time that SHOULD be made and we feel better with him back there than the "Pro Bowler"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
Winslow's hands got up a little late on that last pass which looked far too fast to me.
Nope. His hands were right where they should have been. The ball went right through his hands. I think Winslow would tell you he can make that catch.
I think he did say that, and it's possible he should have after watching it again on ESPN. Of course I wouldn't expect him to say anything else.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
I'm not going to pick on Winslow anymore. It was a very tough catch, that he usually makes. Brady played a great game and showed a lot of good things. He wasn't perfect in the end, but I would much rather him in there trying than DA. The defense lost this game, plain and simple. Besides all of the obvious McDonald miscues, the plays that bugged me the most were not stopping their fullback when he got hit in the backfield and willed himself to a first down. He wanted it more than the defense. I also didn't like seeing Wimbley dragged for ten yards on one play. The defense's effort made me sick.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Don't make this out to be something it isn't AABA.
This isn't about Anderson versus Quinn. This is about RAC's decision to bench one guy for another in the hopes that the new guy could do what the old one couldn't. It didn't work, and Crennel must answer for it.
AGAIN, I'm not sitting here saying Anderson could have won the game when Quinn couldn't (that's up to the guy on ESPN to say, which is what he's doing) because that'd be an assinine statement. What I AM saying is that the move didn't work. Hey, maybe Winslow should have caught that ball. But maybe the pressure of it being 4th down combined with the fact they haven't worked much together threw the timing off. We know that before the 4th down pass Quinn fired the 3rd and 1 pass right into the ground at an open Wright's feet. I also believe that he panicked when he went rolling out, which limited his throw.
Regardless of all of it, the move simply didn't work. Now we can discuss Quinn versus Anderson all day and all night, but when it's time to look at the very bottom line, the QB at the end of the game didn't get it done just like the QB before him. Whether or not it's the QB's fault in either case is irrelevent. The move was made because Crennel felt Quinn could do what Anderson couldn't. It didn't happen. Now Crennel will have to answer for it, which is allready happening on ESPN.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
What Crennel has done is solved one problem, while seeing he has another HUGE problem. Starting Quinn was the right move.
If the defense made any number of plays it should have (broken coverages, missed tackles, dropped interceptions) and Brady wins the game, do you still think it was a bad move to start him? Everyone including Brady made mistakes, but the game was lost by the defense.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
If the defense made any number of plays it should have (broken coverages, missed tackles, dropped interceptions) and Brady wins the game, do you still think it was a bad move to start him? Everyone including Brady made mistakes, but the game was lost by the defense.
Which is exactly what happened over the last few weeks.
So the coach changed QB's. Why? Because he wanted Quinn to win the game when he felt Anderson couldn't. The move failed.
This move wasn't about determining if Quinn was the guy for the future.
This move wasn't about getting Quinn experience.
This move was about switching QB's so that the new guy could do what the old guy supposedly couldn't: Finish the game. When it was crunch time, the rookie stopped playing loose, like most rookie's do. So the move didn't produce the end-effect that it was supposed to do.
So, AGAIN, I'm not saying Anderson could have. I'm saying Anderson was benched because RAC thought Quinn could do what Anderson couldn't. He didn't. The move failed.
If you want to discuss Quinn versus Anderson, we can, but the bottom line of this decision was another L when our QB couldn't finish a game he played well enough to win in.
By the way, here's another reason I HATED what Crennel did:
Quote:
"We're going to beat Denver."
Now RAC has to live this quote down as well. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,520 |
Your still missing the point.. The fact that Quinn failed has nothing to do with how they ( or most of us ) felt about DA. We felt better with Quinn back there and it THAT reguard it WAS the right decision. Sure.. we fell short again but maybe, just maybe.. we see a bright spot for the future which is more than most of us saw with DA back there. This is a entertainment business..and I think the "business" outlook will look better tomorrow with the Quinn performance even in a loss than it would have with DA stinking it up yet again.
The organization gave it's fans hope tonight..even IN a loss. That's a start.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
Quote:
This move was about switching QB's so that the new guy could do what the old guy supposedly couldn't: Finish the game. Anderson was benched because RAC thought Quinn could do what Anderson couldn't. He didn't. The move failed.
The move was made because the owner, front office, and hopefully the coach finally all realized that they have a better player than DA on the bench and most of the fans knew it. The end result was the same, but most fans tonight are not complaining about the QB play like we usually are. Quinn can not win games by himself, but he did not lose this one. We can only hope Quinn grows from this game. Next time, hopefully, he can overcome the horrid defense and lead the offense by playing flawlessly, as you expected him to.
If we started DA tonight, and the defense gives up 450 yards passing to Cutler and we lose, what good would that have done?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
I get the angle you're coming from, but Crennel didn't make the move to make people feel better about a loss or about the QB situation. He did it to win. Period.
Now, again, you're talking about a fans perspective. I'm talking about RAC's perspective, and why he did what he did.
If the goal was to make fans feel better about Quinn than Anderson, it was a success.
If the goal was to get Quinn experience moving forward, it was a success.
But if the goal was to change QB's so that Quinn could do something Anderson hasn't, then the move failed, and in the process, the playoff window, however small it was, has closed on the season.
Quote:
The organization gave it's fans hope tonight..even IN a loss. That's a start.
Hope for next year? Maybe. But we both know this move wasn't made for next year, and that's MY point.
Now, if you want to talk Quinn versus Anderson, I feel absolutely confident that Anderson could have done everything Quinn did tonight, with the exception of his movement outside the pocket. Quinn didn't throw anything past 15-yards tonight, which would have made Anderson's accuracy that much better. Winslow was open all day, and we've seen Anderson hit him.
See man, here's the problem. If this move ended up in a W, it's a brilliant move that not only saves the season, but legitimizes RAC's decision to bench Anderson. Yet with the L, our season is lost, and RAC is open to second guessing. That's allready happening on ESPN, and RAC needed to get a move right. I'll remind you again that the move was made to win the game, to show that Quinn could do what Anderson couldn't: Finish. It didn't work. If you want to say Quinn got a bad deal because Winslow dropped a pass, that's fine, but then anyone else can say Anderson got a bad deal because Edwards dropped a bomb last week, which means the switch should have never have been made to begin with.
I liked what I saw out of Quinn. He wasn't as great as many will claim him to have been, not only because he played a flag-football defense out there, but also because he was never asked to throw the ball farther than 15-yards down field. He was bailed out a couple of times by Winslow on throws that should have hit the ground, but he looked poised and showed the mobility that will help him in the future.
But, again, that isn't why Crennel made the move. He made it to win. We lost. So did RAC.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 560 |
Playoffs?!?! Playoffs?!?! (Jim Mora) Mathematically we still had a shot at the playoffs. Realistically, no way. RAC's decision made us feel good about the QB position. It gives us hope for the future. If Brady can win some games and beat Pittsburgh, we'll all be happy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Again, that wasn't why he made the switch.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
This move was about switching QB's so that the new guy could do what the old guy supposedly couldn't: Finish the game.
This move was about switching QB's so that the new guy could do what the old guy supposedly couldn't: provide some semblance of consistancy throughout an entire game.
How the hell can you confidently gameplan or even call a game in progress, when you never know when your QB is going to play well or play poorly from one week to the next; one drive to the next? It was time.
I think you're putting way too much emphisis on that last drive to make your point valid. So Quinn doesn't make a game winning drive in the final 1:30 to win the game. Neither did Anderson last week when he threw a pick six to "Finish the game."
What Quinn did do though was to play consistant throughout the entire game. So he ran a roll out he didn't need to in the last minute. He tossed one at Wrights feet on 3rd down. He throws one through Winslows hands. Game over.
What he didn't do was go through a string of 4 drives in a row of 3 and outs. He didn't have nearly the number of inaccurately thrown passes that has become an Anderson staple. He didn't throw a pick nor need his WR's to become defenders to protect him from one. Or two.
I don't thing the "switch" was anything of the sort about expecting a young QB with no experience in a short week and with virtually no practice with the ones' to put the team on his shoulders and march them into victory.
As RAC said about the timing, "It was time." 
At 3-5 it was time. At 3-5 with an inconsistant quarterback who's been playing that way since the end of last season it was time. Seeing so much of his playing well, playing bad, playing well, playing bad...it was time. To watch the inaccuracy of so many of his throws for extended periods during a game, well, it was time.
Had DA started and we lost the game, which is nowhere near out the realm of possibilities, that would have been RAC's decision as well and we could have second guessed that one into the ground correctly lamenting that our playoff hopes are over and his job is at stake.
If changing the QB for this one game (over say, the next one) is such a failure of monumental proportions I just don't see it. ::shrug::
And I've faithfully read all your posts.
Last edited by ddubia; 11/07/08 03:41 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
I think you're putting way too much emphisis on that last drive to make your point valid. So Quinn doesn't make a game winning drive in the final 1:30 to win the game. Neither did Anderson last week when he threw a pick six to "Finish the game."
You're right. Quinn couldn't do what Anderson didn't do.
Do we believe that Anderson could have been benched if our defense doesn't lose us the game last week? I don't, and I know you well-enough to say I don't think you believe that either You're too reasonable So the bottom line was that he was benched because he couldn't pull the game out on the last drive.
Since Quinn was inserted to do what Anderson couldn't, the standard is winning. Nothing else. I argued that I didn't like the move because putting a rookie under the microscope could be costly because of a lack of experience. He did great dinkin' most of the game......until that last drive. He rolled out prematurely, then fired what should have been a 1st down right into the ground at Wright's feet.
That inexperience made Quinn tight on that last drive. It showed. I didn't like the idea of a rookie going out there while we had the playoffs as a possibility, then the rook tightened up. So RAC has to answer for it.
Quote:
Had DA started and we lost the game, which is nowhere near out the realm of possibilities, that would have been RAC's decision as well and we could have second guessed that one into the ground correctly lamenting that our playoff hopes are over and his job is at stake.
But that didn't happen.
RAC made his decision. Quinn played well, all things considered, but we lost the game, when I thought the switch was made one week too early. He's now open to the second guessing, and it's allready happened on ESPN. One guy like the move, one guy said Anderson could have done it. Can I say Anderson would have won the game on that last drive? No, but I can say Quinn didn't, which is what he was put in to do.
Quote:
It didn't matter which QB started and played the game.
Respectfully, I disagree. I only wanted Anderson to start this game because I felt his experience could play a big role in the outcome. I don't know that we'd have been in the position that Quinn had us in, but I do know what I saw, which is that Quinn got tight on that last drive, and we didn't get a 1st down. I don't think Anderson would have locked up on that last drive, but that's just me. Hell, if all things are equal, and Anderson was a bum because he'd throw a ball too low or watch a receiver drop a big pass, we saw Quinn throw an easy toss to Wright 5 yards right into the ground, then Winslow have one go through his hands. The difference is that we benched a guy who was improving for an unproven one. In crunch time, when experience pays off, we had none.
That's why I disagree.
Quote:
If changing the QB for this one game (over say, the next one) is such a failure of monumental proportions I just don't see it. ::shrug::
So be it. I just didn't see why benching the improving veteran against a sad team made sense for the here-and-now. Had we lost this game, Quinn gets his experience, no problem. But had we won, we might still be in the playoff hunt, and I think Anderson's experience would have helped.
Ok bro, I've got it out of my system  I'll let the board hammer on me for a while.......
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Quote:
So the bottom line was that he was benched because he couldn't pull the game out on the last drive.
But I don't believe that is why he was benched.
I believe he was benched because of his bad decision making, inconsistant, inaccruate play. When he improved he was good. Very good even. But he would too soon, sometimes within the same game, fall right back into inaccuracy and bad decisions.
It reminded me of Tim Couch. One good game followed by a bad one. Just when you were about to give up on him he'd have a great game. Then another couple bad ones.
That is why I think DA was replaced. Not because of his bone-headed pick six vs. the Rats.
And I respectively don't believe Quinn was put in to make that last drive to glory. How could anyone expect that out of an inexperienced young QB with no practice? He was simply brought in to hopefully have some semblance of consistancy.
It wasn't about this one game. It was about time.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,323 |
Quote:
Do we believe that Anderson could have been benched if our defense doesn't lose us the game last week? I don't, and I know you well-enough to say I don't think you believe that either You're too reasonable So the bottom line was that he was benched because he couldn't pull the game out on the last drive.
He was benched because he was not consistant enough Toad. I have not been a big fan of starting Brady before next season, however Brady does give us the best chance of winning now. If only for the fact they we can eat up more of the game clock with more time consuming drives, thus keeping our putrid defense off the field.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807 |
Quote:
Quote:
The excuse machine keeps on rolling.......................
as does the over reacting and the witch hunt ...
See, you don't read posts because you "think" you know it all. Sad, quite sad. If you wish to excuse high school highjinks on the part of our HC, then so be it.
But that is the only disagreement. For you see, if you actually would bother to read the thread, you would have seen that I am not on a witch hunt. That I have seen improvement there. That I have seen some signs of him maturing over the last year.
But you don't and you won't. For thou art King Diam. Quite sad actually..................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,807 |
Quote:
We switched QB's so that when we could win a game, the quarterback would be the spark that Anderson wasn't.
The rookie played well until the last drive, then he played LIKE A ROOKIE.
That decision in on RAC, and he pays the price.
Man, where to start...............
Would you agree that there are 11 guys on the O and 11 guys on the D?
Would you agree that if you have a possible upgrade at ANY of those positions, that you should attempt to play the best possible player at your disposal at each and every one of those 22 positions?
If you agree with those VERY basic points, then you're dead wrong.
BQ nor DA play D.. They only play on one side of the ball. Did BQ bat 1000? Of course not. Is he the "perfect QB"? There is no such creature.
But RAC made a move he felt would improve the QB position for the long haul. Nothing more and nothing less.
It was one man at one position.
I think he played pretty well. Not great, but pretty well. He had a handfull of errant throws. But overall, pretty accurate and consistant. Definatly a solid foundation that appears you can build on.
From a logical standpoint, you can't live in the moment. You have to look at everything long term. We needed more accuracy and consistancy at the QB position. RAC made a move that he felt would accomplish that. At first glance it appears he may very well have done that.
Just as with any first time anything, all you can ask for is growth and progress. They plan on BQ being the future. I feel it is an upgrade. But do you honestly believe that RAC and Phil do not understand that?
Do you really think this was a desperation move? If you do, well, you're entitled to your opinion. But I believe common sense dictates that they saw the time was right. The situation was right. I found it odd they did it in a short week.
But the proof is in the pudding. And all this has shown is that they are not afraid to make the tough choices. At the beginning of last year? That was something that I didn't see, but I'm seeing it now. That's growth and progress.
How you can twist that into what you have? I have no idea. But hopefully in the light of day, reflection will change your perception.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The decision, Savage, Randy? Good
or Bad.
|
|
