DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Thought about Savage...

"GM takes the time to reply to a fan with [censored for masked profanity] and you dont have a problem with that."

In a "PRIVATE" email? No, not one bit. for some weird reason, I would think that an email is private communication. You are trying to make it as if as Savage was coming into Berea and a fan started yelling that he sucked and he responded PUBLICLY with cameras and everything around [censored for masked profanity]!

You don't see the difference? Hmmm odd the NFL did. Ya think if he did it in public there would be "NO ACTION" from the NFL office?

Come Mourgrym...mole hill.

JMHO

I think Phil's email is pretty obvious..if you see the beat writers email..all ya gotta do is switch the name.
Now since the response was explicid, it was made known..the fan went to others to talk about it then it got leaked to ProFootball.com..
They guy works at WXDX in Pukesburgh ..of all places..
Then somehow Deadspin got a hold of it..then it took off..

Then the fan went on WKNR yesterday to talk about it.

The NFL just wants the story to die, by punishing Savage the story will float around for awhile. Not saying anything was the right move, the same move savage should have made.


K2 situations everyone began to question if savage was to sensitive to make sound decisions. Now he gets his panties in a bind over a fan. More questions about just how sensitive Opie really is. This is the end.

"to sensitive to make sound decisions."

Sorry KW2 situation was KW2 driving us under a bus...ya really think if KW2 wasn't a complete jerk in the process he'd Shut up about it...lol now who is being naive.

And the NFL doing it to have it dye down...and the only thing that will make this into something that it is not is a bored Media.

Now tell me the truth...are you this fan?

You would think after the text message came back to bite Phil in the ass that he would understand an email might have a similar effect.

Bottom line when u are 4-6 everyone is looking for a reason to hang you anyway. DONT GIVE THEM ONE!!

I mean the fans are the only reason Phil is GM of the Browns. Their support saved him from the firing squad. To do this was just ignorant on so many levels.

New coach may want more control and these are the kind of decisions that make it easier to give the new coach that control. In the next 2 months Phil better be making one heck of a game plan.

I agree with Eo. Although unprofessional, is it really that bad? You know anybody else in his shoes including himself is thinking it, he just reacted. He didn't make a racist remark, he didn't threaten anyone, he didn't do anything wrong but swear at a guy in an e-mail.

Like I said, it's unprofessional, but certainly nothing to lose a job over.

It just looks really, really bad...

Especially combined with all the other issues, and things that have gone on since hes been here. I guess the only persons opinion on this that counts is Randy's.

We dont need anymore bad press...and this just look like a GM on the brink to most people, agin when everything that has happened is considered.

I dont think thats what this is at all but....

Remember...its all about perception.

j/c
My two cents.

Per the fan himself and Phil, they have emailed back and forth many times over the past several months. I think Phil never expected it to be leaked, of course, and he thought their relationship was one in which he could get away with saying what he said the same as if one of us said it to a friend. With some seriousness and some jest. Both participants have said they apologized prior to this being leaked, which tells me that they both stepped over a line and knew it and regretted it and thus the apologies.

This does not forgive Phil for sending it (it was idiotic), he should always be aware of his responsibilities when sending emails from the official email addy. Had this been his yahoo or some other address then it wouldn't be so bad, but still not smart or professional.

We all make mistakes in our interpersonal relationships at work from time to time, either with co-workers or the public. It's unfortunate when it happens and usually doesn't cost us our jobs. At least not the first time. Phil's job has a lot of dealing with the media and public, so he has a lot more opportunities to make mistakes and really this is the first major gaff. The Winslow incident I think was mutual, he couldn't release the info without Winslow's permission, and he didn't know about the text messages (from what we have officially heard).

I do not think this should cost him his job. I keep thinking continuity; Jeff Fisher with the Titans, Shanahan and Denver, even Cowher when in Pitt. These organizations kept key people in place and have maintained good integrity throughout and their teams have usually been on the winning side of the ledger more than they weren't. Yes they have had turnover in the coordinators, and even a Player personnel position here and there, but overall they have had a constant that has kept them winning. With the occasional down season as well.

From where we started with Phil and RAC we had very little, almost no real NFL players, we still have seven from 2004; Winslow, Jones, Heiden, Tucker, Davis, Pontbriand, and Dawson. That is over 50 new faces we have brought in and although we are not serious contenders this year, we are much much more competitive than we were prior to their arrival. We are in year four of an initial five year plan. To scrap it and start again with a new regime is not what will build a successful team. We cannot keep doing that every three to five years, no continuity means no progress, which means no championships. This is not to say that a change cannot be made in the head coach (just because I used them as the example above), but it is not a fire RAC thing either, nor a fire Phil issue.

My belief is that each man should get one more year to show us the team has made progress, and really it must make the playoffs to do that, or else we do start looking for their replacements.

Continuity is good, but as Einstein said 'doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results is insanity'. Well that can work from both ends of the spectrum; changing head coaches and GM's every three or four years or staying with them too long.

What next?
For those of you that see nothing wrong with this,get on your company e-mail and try it,see what happens.
Starnge behavior for a man of such strong moral fiber.

Got change for a nickle?

My train of thought didn't stop at the first station, rather just kept on going.




BC - Of course many would get fired if they jsut went on their company email and sent something like that. Many might not however, they would be given a severe warning of course. If they were provoked they would probably be given that warning. I am not forgiving Savage of his sending such a stupid response; however I am willing to give him another chance to learn from this and become a better person and GM. Which I would hope in the long term helps the organization to become an elite organization; with the bumps, bruises and scars that show growth and learning from mistakes but still surviving to be the best it can be. The best we as fans want it to be.

"I mean the fans are the only reason Phil is GM of the Browns. Their support saved him from the firing squad."

Again...I have to wonder about those words calling me Naive...lol

ummm, I think RAC had just a tad more to do with it than all the fans.

But if you ask the "FANS" I think the majority want him here and don't feel that - Savage calling one Jerk "FU" that we take it as an afront to all fans.

D17...the whole unprofessional outlook is absurd...he wasn't carrying out any professional duties he reacted to somebody acting like a jerk. If he was on a podium carrying out his professional duties and reacted to a fan there and said "FU"...very unprofessional...but on an email after being razzed by the guy. Fine with me. And that fan as heck didn't represent me.

JMHO

my thoughts...

i have no idea what was sent, but i think we can all safely assume it was probably pretty bad. enough to irk someone.

and i'm not condoning that in any way. but phil savage has got to be bigger then that. you open pandora's box by taking the bait from this guy.

i don't think this really hurts the organization at all, really, it just adds insult to the injury that is this season

also, i'm surprised i haven't heard from anyone on how maybe the quinn move was fan-induced (i still don't buy it) that is definitely fodder for that theory) based on how this guy seems to listen to fans, and take things to heart. i'm actually quite surprised that the media/blogs/message boards haven't made more out of that aspect of this whole thing.

as far as phil's status with this team goes, i'm sure there is some question to it, having nothing to do with email-gate, and more with why some of these draft picks aren't panning out.

i will give him this. each year he has upgraded the most obvious weakness of our team. a few years ago, it was the offensive line, one of the worst in the nfl, he goes out and drafts thomas, signs steinbach, not to mention signing shaffer the year before, mckinney has been serviceable. we have some depth there.

last year, it was obvious that we had no pressure from the line. we had spare parts with our front 3. savage went out and made a very smart trade for shaun rogers, and also the move for corey williams. he hasn't been great, but he's been ok. the defensive line has been good in my eyes.

but some of these draft picks... wimbley, jackson, wilson (who's gone), frye, pool, etc...

signing josh cribbs was a fantastic move, finding derek anderson off of a practice squad was smart. alex hall looks promising, b-mac came out of nowhere. eric wright looks like a keeper. jerome harrison's play shows that may have been a smart pick.

seems like he's right around 50/50, give or take.

but definitely not good enough. especially with some of these swings and misses with early picks.

one other thing that irks me is, why in the hell do we send romeo out to explain things everytime there is an internal problem?

i know he's very good with the media, he never loses his cool, not matter what the situation, he handles everything with a smile. he's a classy guy, and i get that.

but phil needs to stand up, be a man, and handle these things himself.

I will openly admit that I can't fathom how much pressure he must be feeling from the preseason build up and expectations, to the slow start, through all that's happened with Winslow and Quinn etc... I can't even begin to comprehend.

Pressure?
Give me a break.Ask someone who doesn't know how they're going to feed thier family about pressure.
His wounds are for the most part are self inflicted.He is the one who said we had enough talent to be competative this year.
There is an old rule he didn't follow;never post anything on the internet,or say over the telephone that you don't want the whole to know about.
That's not pressure,that's just not thinking.

Mourg, I agree with you. This is embarrassing.
I'm not saying Savage deserves to be fired by this action alone, but when you're the GM of an NFL franchise, you don't exchange nasty emails with fans for God's sake.
Very unprofessional. Of course, the person who brought this public is an attention-seeker but that doesn't excuse Savage.

Im I the only one who thinks that Phil Savage is a keeper? The GM that the fans credit themselves for keeping over the loss of Todd Collins? One season, where they take a step backwards from the season before? A season that they overachieved against an easy schedual?

I dont blame Phil at all for this downward year. How can fans be mad at the guy who gave the Browns their first o-line since 99'? Hes finally brought in a dominate defender to build around. The previouse 2 regimes didnt do either of those. Hes brought in Pro Bowlers. Hes kept a playmaker after a motorcycle accident that alot of you wanted to see gone. Some of you still want to see him gone, but he did come back and bring us fans some joy by tying or breaking Ozzie Newsoms record or 2.

Is it Savages fault that he brought in the local OSU star free agent, the guy that was supposed come in and take on NTs like Caey Hampton and maul them one on one? Was it his fault that LeCarles Bentley came in a blew out his knee on the first day of practice with pads and contact? Is it his fault that he brought in a CB, Gary Baxter who was excellent in the red zone, blew out both his knees on one play? We cant blame the staph infections on Savage, they were already here.

I see that Savage has a vision for this team. He gets it. Hes building this team thru in thenches and is trying to bring in the FAs that are out there to plug in. Hey, I wanted Adrian Peterson, but he didnt bring in the sexy pick and took Joe Thomas, the LT for the next 10 years( not the LT I wanted- Tomlinson, the game breaking RB for the next 10 years), that many of you fans have been coveting for years.

Savage inherited a team that had given up half way thru the prior season, when Butch Davis left. A team where the only keepers were a couple specail teams players Dawson and Pointbriand. He also had to switch a defense from the 4-3 to the 3-4. Something that isnt easily done in one year. He couldnt get rid of everyone all at once. He had to put one of the previose playmakers from DE to LB in Kenard Lang. He had to bring in one of the only available d-lineman and plug him in at NT until an upgrade was available. An upgrade was found, sadly he was in his 40's. But thats what was out there.

Do I pit it on Savage that after one 10-6 year, that the players didnt come back focused and were demanding more money after one year that didnt even make the playoff? NOPE Thats on the cuddly players coach, pappa bears shoulders. Savage saw a rare talent in Josh Cribbs and signed him to a 7 year, $7 million dollar contract. I thought it was genius. Lock up a two way specail teams star/playmaker for only $1 million a year. Whats that, about 1/100th % of the teams payroll. Its not his fault that Chicago was dumb enough to move Hester from his role and put him into a key part of the offense. Its been blowing up in Chicagos face all year.

I was watching ESPN yesterday, and on the bottom of the screen I read "Lerner will not fire Crennel or Savage during the season and wait until after the season to further evaluate" All day I had on my mind that this team would take a step backwards if they lost Phil Savage. Savage was in the first regime where the team could actually let go a draft pick if that pick didnt pan out. Some of you might not realize this, but on other teams, not all the draft picks pan out. On some teams, a 3rd rounder is on the first cuts that season. Or like Baltimore, 2nd rounder Dan Cody was let go in his second season.

I wanted Savage to take Ngata a couple drafts back. I think Savage wanted to take Ngata. But Savage is a man who works with his fellow worker. He asked Crennel, "Do you want a run stuffer who can clog up the middle, or a pass rusher" We all know what happened next. The rookie breaks a team record for sacks by a rookie, then degresses.Savage working with his coach could bode well for the next coaching candidate and the owner should sell that when looking for a new coach. Everyone says, Bill Cowher wants total control. Where has he said that? He did have a controll power with Donahoe, but Donahoe left and Cowher had another GM to work with.I dont want to make this post about if Cowher has said that or not because we dont know what other teams would offer Cowher and the idiot ESPN media speculates (I hate idiot spoiled New Englander, Bob Ryan) that there would be better jobs out there for Cowher.

Like I said earlier. This isnt a post about getting rid of Phil Savage just to bring in Cowher. At this point, nobody knows what direction Cowher will be going and its againt NFL rules for teams to pursue him without going thru the proper channels. Its a post about how Savage has improved this team in almost every aspect over the previose two regimes. Better drafts, better FAs. I think that Savage is getting very frusterated that his coach hasnt taken this team over and bring out the best of his players and coaching staff. So, nobody here knows if the Browns have any chance at Cowher, so lets not want to see him fired because of that. Heck, Im hoping the two could work together.

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Im I the only one who thinks that Phil Savage is a keeper?

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Do you think your the only one, Please read other threads, many of us have been backing Phil since people started calling for his head.

Not getting down on you but please read before you post a comment such as that.

Phil may be a "keeper" but he's hardly the genius that some on here paint him to be.

If he was he'd keep his mouth shut and we'd be winning a few more games by now. In my opinion, the team's record gets laid directly on his doorstep at the same time it gets put on Romeo's.

Because GMs usually get a second coaching pick before being shown the door if the first one doesn't work out, I think Phil is as safe as a GM of a crappy team can be. But don't kid yourself......one more dumbass move like that email before the end of the year and Phil goes with Romeo.

I'd also like to clear up what has been a fallacy on this board for a long time. Phil did pick Romeo as his coach. Phil was here a full month before Romeo was hired. Go back and read some of the stories. Lerner was in on the interviews along with Collins and Phil. Phil is quoted as being fully on board with the decision to hire Romeo. They all 3 "loved" Romeo's interviews. So to say Phil gets a pass on Romeo's tenure/hiring is wrong, IMO. Ask Randy who he thinks hired RAC. I'd bet he doesn't think it's all on him.

I look at the talent , make -up and chemistry of this team ... Don't see how folks thing Savage all that much ...

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The GM that the fans credit themselves for keeping over the loss of Todd Collins?

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It's John Collins not that it really matters all that much.

No, you aren't the only one that thinks Phil can still do a great job, but I think, based entirely on the Lerner Interview the other day, that Phil is on a much different hot seat than we might have thought..

I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure he'll be gone..

Phil buys the "groceries". It's up to RAC to produce with what he's given. IMO the grceries look pretty good:

Who hired the grocer?

That's some pretty good cherry picking.Let's take another look.

O-line=good job
Qb=Neither guy lights my fire
RB=OK,nothing special
TE=good unit,thanks to Butch
WR=1 guy,and then nothing,the worse in the league,possibly.
DL=Outside of Rogers,nothing to write home about
LB=Phil's boys,bad
CB=young and promising
S=Neither are good,both adequate
ST=very good,Dawson and Pontibriand wrer here,but he did add Cribs and DZ
Depth=doen't seem to be any

The cupboard isn't bare,but I'd hate to have to wait out a catastrophe with those provisions.
And this"best we've had since '99" isgetting old.We've been a crap team since '99,so let's stop making comparisons to a crap team,and start making comparisons to the rest of the league.

Nice , very nice ..

I like Phil. Think he's done a good job. Not a GREAT job.. just a good one.

I'd like to see him focus a little more on guys with great work ethic. Players that play 110% all the time and don't need to be "coached up" to play hard. Ones that work hard and concentrate in practice... not goof around with their buddies while the coaches are talking. I think he hasn't focused in on that particular attribute enough in the past and that's why we have players playing out of position, running lazy routes, and tackling soft (or not at all!).

Beyond that, I think Phil is alright.

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LB=Phil's boys,bad

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LB= Phil's boys?

With a defensive coach with 5 super bowl rings as the Browns head coach, is there anyone that believes that Crennel has "no" input as to which LBs are drafted?

I do believe that Phil gives his assessments to Crennel and with input from Romeo, the defensive coordinator, the LB coach and Savage...a decision is made as to whom "they" decide to draft.

How much input each has in the decision making process, we fans do not know...but I find it hard to believe that Phil and Romeo would not agree on which LBs the Browns draft....LBs=Romeo's/Phil's boys...yes!

Is it 60% Romeo/40% Phil?....Or 60% Phil/40% Romeo? = ?/unknown

The only way I think you give Phil the boot is if Cowher wants the gig and will bring Colbert over from Pitt. Outside of that, I think you defiantly give Phil another shot, with a HC of his choice this time.

Let him have another year to build up this defense.

QB: Quinn, IMO will be fine..need a backup to go with Dorsey.

RB: Jamal is almost done, but can be kept to take heat off Harrison. Jerome Harrison is going to make waves next season. Wright is also a good backup. We actually have a nice tandem here.

We dont need one superstud RB....history of recent superbowl winners will back that.

WR: Definatly a need a area, Stallworth will be cut, BE needs help, and we need to pray JJ gives us something. We need another #2 WR...like TJ Houz...or similar.

OL: One of the best in the league, they run and pass block well. No complaints, we need another RG possibly...and some depth not a need area.

DL: If we stay 3-4...we are good. Rogers, Williams, R. Smith, S. Smith...are do their jobs. Eating up blocks freeing up the LB's. Nuff said, Phil has got a good 3-4 DL in here.

LB: Worst LB Core in the NFL, slowest, softest...wow. We need 3 LB's...need. This is the spot where Phil needs to spend the money and draft picks.

This is the 3-4 backbone...we need plenty.

S: Pool has turned into a good player, especially when allowed to play SS. Jones is no good, but Mike Adams has played well at FS. We could use a FS, and a few decent ones should make it to FA. Not a major need area.

CB: Care to tell me the starting CB's of the last 5 superbowl winners? HOw many are probowlers?

Coverage is about pressure...we dont need an $80 million dollar man back here, give Wright and McD another camp and year...get another guy to help.



Phil gets it.....hes building from the trenches back...they way to success...give him another year. Randy, I know hes a moron, and has ego issues...but he knows football.

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With a defensive coach with 5 super bowl rings as the Browns head coach, is there anyone that believes that Crennel has "no" input as to which LBs are drafted?

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I think we all know that RAC was involved in drafting Wimbley and most probably DQ... Not sure he had any input on Hall.. But how often does a 7th rounder stick anyway..

I'll bet he had a lot to do with bringing in Willie McG however.