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Good thoughts my man....you did lose me with the mention of Florida St....but i admit that is probably more my problem than anything else.  I do agree...if you are really going to make a change, it has to be real and sustainable...all the other is rinky dink window dressing that works for a few years.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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And not to mention the thousands of people that have money that go to other states to waste their money, why not keep it right here in our state instead of helping others?
That would provide negligable upside.. it's still money staying within the community (which is better than it leaving the community) but it isn't growing the community. In order to grow a community, you need more money coming in than going out.. it's pretty simple really, moving the money WITHIN the community doesn't really grow anything, it only stabilizes...
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So what buisnesses that bring in good wages should we bring in? Give me an example.
This is the question Cleveland should have been asking itself 20 years ago instead of voting for politicians whose big promise was to save the manufacturing jobs... not that there is anything wrong with manufacturing jobs... but when the Triangle was developing a reputation for Pharmaceuticals and bio meds and Rockville/Gaithersburg in MD were building the technology corridor and other areas were actively courting whole industries, Cleveland was focused on saving manufacturing jobs.. their focus was far too narrow and shortsighted.
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It better be a high end buisness that doesn't rely on in store sales because after all there is no job's and like you say people can't afford to pay their own bills let alone spend it in stores.
Nope, successful retail sales is byproduct of a good economy, much like gambling..
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But then again if you bring in Buisnesses that require degrees or some sort of college education to work at then who's going to work there? People that already have a descent job and have some money to throw around? It's the low/middle clas people struggling in Ohio that need job's.
So you get started bringing in an industry and the educated people that come with it... those people needs homes and offices built, roads need expanded, they go out to eat and they shop and that is how the low/middle class benefits from high paying jobs.. not to mention, it gives the kids of low/middle class families the incentive to go to college and become the sought after employee.
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If there is no money to be spent in Cleveland then what buisnesses are going to come to Cleveland to provide those job's for these struggling folks?
Businesses that don't rely on local sales. Businesses that export their products and their ideas... this is where Cleveland has missed the boat, they have focused solely on shipping out products when the real money, is in ideas.... invent something, don't just build things others have invented. Do you think the biomed companies in the Triangle worry about selling their product IN the Triangle? No, they ship it all over the world to sell it.. they provide the R&D that goes into the products that then might be made in India or China..
yebat' Putin
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That would provide negligable upside.. it's still money staying within the community (which is better than it leaving the community) but it isn't growing the community. In order to grow a community, you need more money coming in than going out.. it's pretty simple really, moving the money WITHIN the community doesn't really grow anything, it only stabilizes...
But money coming in from the 'burbs and from the surrounding counties WOULD be a boon to the city coffers.
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This is the question Cleveland should have been asking itself 20 years ago instead of voting for politicians whose big promise was to save the manufacturing jobs... not that there is anything wrong with manufacturing jobs... but when the Triangle was developing a reputation for Pharmaceuticals and bio meds and Rockville/Gaithersburg in MD were building the technology corridor and other areas were actively courting whole industries, Cleveland was focused on saving manufacturing jobs.. their focus was far too narrow and shortsighted.
Absolutely... far too much short-sightedness in this town.
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So you get started bringing in an industry and the educated people that come with it... those people needs homes and offices built, roads need expanded, they go out to eat and they shop and that is how the low/middle class benefits from high paying jobs.. not to mention, it gives the kids of low/middle class families the incentive to go to college and become the sought after employee.
Agreed. If you add a bunch of industries that have a lot of high-wage positions... if nothing else, you are collecting plenty of taxes from the business, then also from the employees income... and finally from all of the other businesses that will spring up around them.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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But money coming in from the 'burbs and from the surrounding counties WOULD be a boon to the city coffers.
No doubt, but it does little to lift up the whole region... which is what is needed.
yebat' Putin
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That is the problem most of the Norther cities have...they have become landlocked by other incorporated cities.
Most of the cities in the south and west don't have that problem and have taken steps to prevent that from happens....they annex, and have the right of first refusal if some other community wants to take the step of incorporating.
Chattanooga can run from county line to state line if it chooses....so what are the burbs are actually in city limits
Cities like Lakewood, Rockey River, Bay Village to the weat...Shaker,Euclid,Bratenal to the east, Parma, Middleburgh Hgts to the south....good tax base households would be residents of Cleveland...paying Cleveland taxes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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ok, ill play along with the BIG ideas notion.
Lake Erie is the 11th largest freshwater body on earth.
What about Lake Erie? How de we sustainably develop lake Erie and benefit NE Ohio's economy?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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Quote:
ok, ill play along with the BIG ideas notion.
Lake Erie is the 11th largest freshwater body on earth.
What about Lake Erie? How de we sustainably develop lake Erie and benefit NE Ohio's economy?
Install a heating system so it can be used year round?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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I thought this article would be some good discussion. I mean everyone still here and everyone that was once here would love nothing better than to improve the city and area b/c it really is a great place. However, like most people have noted it seems like those in charge drag their feet on everything and blame everything but the obvious for the city's problems. The biggest problem with the city of Cleveland itself is it's population decline. The damn city needs to get it's head out of it's ass and get rid of these boarded up houses. Once enough of them are demolished you can start building better housing to draw people in. Look at the area around University Circle and the Euclid Corridor project for example. If you stray away from that area you enter the twilight zone almost. All you see are boarded up houses. If the city gets rid of those and maybe builds some upscale housing that replaces depression/WWII era housing, maybe it can start to draw some of the professionals that work at Case, Cleveland Clinic, University, etc. Start small and expand in that way. People stable in their career/job would always love to save time and fuel plus headaches that come with driving to work. Thats kind of how these older houses came to be to house people that worked for the factories. Now that manufacturing is going away they need to change the layout of the city to adapt to that change. Thats the biggest thing, adapting to change. You bring people BACK to the city, you bring back the taxes to help improve the schools, police, fire, services, etc. You keep the money in the city instead of places like Mentor, Rocky River, Strongsville. Quote:
I hear all this talk about neighboring states that have gambling and how great they're doing. I will say one thing: Detroit.
Casino's are not all they are cracked up to be.
I agree. I am a big supporter of a casino in the city too, but it's not the end all cure all. What I see when I go to Niagara Falls/Windsor, Detroit, New York, and even Vegas is a ton of people from Ohio that are there to gamble. But the whole point of bringing a casino here is to keep that money HERE and possibly tie it into this new convention center to attract companies as a nice/fun event planning. Plus I wouldn't want to do what Detroit tried as a "Vegas of the Midwest" type of attitude (well, they do have Windsor right across the border so they had to try something to compete) but more of another place to check out.
I really think a hotel/convention center/casino will work here and it would be perfect to draw big trade shows, business conventions, and so on. With the sports teams, the rock hall, and the night life that's starting to come back to downtown it makes it an attractive place for things to happen. Cleveland was in the running for a lot of big events but never had that extra something to land it (plus never enough hotel rooms, with by adding a convention center/hotel/casino you solve that plus add a bunch of spinoff hotels and businesses in the direct area)
Plus for the people who live in the area and State, it keeps the money right here and thats whats important.
One last thing too, I also agree that Burke is a waste of space. Sure for corporate people downtown that fly in people it is convenient, but Hopkins and even Cuyahoga County Airport isn't too far from downtown. I know there is an ODOT plan to move the expressway back and pen up access to the lake, so that could tie in nicely if Burke was turned into an area of nice luxury lakefront condos and highrise suites, parks, maybe a marina so people can keep their boat basically in their backyard, stuff like that. That would be nice, but I doubt Burke will be going anywhere.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Again, cleveland is not a destination city like vegas. Nor will it ever be - not for gambling purposes, anyway. If people can't make the rent, are they going to gamble?
If a casino is built, and no one shows up, do the dealers make $50 g a year?
Well I do not think a casino is the cure all for Clevelands woes but I will say this. My wife used to work for Lakefront Lines. A charter bus company that does most of the transportation for all the sports teams, local and visiting. You know what their biggest money maker was though? Sending thousands of people to Windsor/Detroit,Niagara Falls, Erie PA, Wheeling WV, and other points outside of Ohio where people could spend their money in a casino like they wanted to.
A think a casino built on the Cleveland Lkefront could be a major boost to Clevelands economy.There would have to be other things to go along with it too though.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I mean everyone still here and everyone that was once here would love nothing better than to improve the city and area b/c it really is a great place.
I lived in Cleveland and can say I really don't care what happens in that city and never plan on going back to live. I used to adore the place but got over it once I seen how other cities were ran and my views quickly changed. Cleveland is dead and has been for years even though they might have made some cosmetic changes, Cleveland as a whole is way beyond the times and help in my own opinion. I hope I am wrong and Cleveland could be a place considered a good place to raise a family but other then sports, I as a native could care less what happens, and the way the city has been for years I don't ever expect change.
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Install a heating system so it can be used year round
are you talking below the freeze line? I cant see how that would work with lake Erie, are you talking about running pipes along the edge of the bedrock to provide temperate air?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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I as a native could care less what happens, and the way the city has been for years I don't ever expect change.
Im sorry to hear you could care less what happens to Cleveland. People on this board have a vested interest in this city.
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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A lot of people I talk to that have left all say the same thing, Cleveland is always "home". But then again I also hear people say that once they left and saw how people in other areas live they will never come back like you said.
For me, I love Cleveland b/c that's where I am from, but I will also do whats best for my family. Your right though the city is dead in the water and has been for some time, so if I get an offer to up and move to make a nice living I will go ahead and do it. The only thing stopping me is I like it here for the most part and my family is all here. With my 2 little girls right now we rely a lot on family to help us out while I am in school and working as much as we do. But once I am done I am open to moving anywhere unless things start to improve here. I know that's part of the problem with the area (getting a degree in Ohio and splitting), but again I have to do whats best for us.
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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Don't be sorry, it is what it is. I left Cleveland at 18 thinking I would always go back, but after time found myself not caring. I am not dogging others because I wish Cleveland had something to offer but as a city they failed, and have for years and years and years so expecting change is very wishful thinking in my mind. Cleveland is my hometown always will be but that doesn't mean I can't move on and see better situations. The fact is Cleveland is a hellhole and I doubt it will change in my life but if it does, then I hope to be wrong.
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I am glad you understood my comments, I stick up for Cleveland all the time, I have a love for the city, but since the city limits me, I can't just accept it, I had a chance to see how other things were handled in other areas, and to me Cleveland just keeps shooting themselves in the foot, as a city. I had some great moments in Cleveland and will always remember them but that is what they are now memories. 
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The fact is Cleveland is a hellhole
A true Clevelander will never turn his back on his hometown.
Fearing this thread will turn to useless internet banter.
Lets turn back to productive conversation, someone said something about Lake Erie?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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LOL Quote:
A true Clevelander will never turn his back on his hometown.
So I am fake? Fine if the truth of my words hurt this thread in ways then I will move on after this comment, but your response is weak or just as weak as Cleveland economically. Dude I love my roots and that I grew up in Cleveland but since I have choices I won't go back because the area is dead financially. Being from Cleveland doesn't pay the bills and opportunities are available in other places, a Clevelander doesn't turn back, that is laughable since many Clevelanders leave for better opportunities that's why the nation has a market of Browns fans, due to transplanted Clevelanders. Sorry you feel the way you do, but it is extreme and one of the reasons Cleveland is the but of many jokes, it isn't all that, and many leave.
I'll move on though since I am not a true Clevelander.
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Install a heating system so it can be used year round
are you talking below the freeze line? I cant see how that would work with lake Erie, are you talking about running pipes along the edge of the bedrock to provide temperate air?
How about a half dozen nuclear power plants? We'll be the energy mecca of the country and at night the lake will glow like Vegas. 
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How about a half dozen nuclear power plants? We'll be the energy mecca of the country and at night the lake will glow like Vegas.
i can only assume Perry is still doing that? Lebron is doing the latter, again ctown has to show something other than sport. What will it be?
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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How about a half dozen nuclear power plants? We'll be the energy mecca of the country and at night the lake will glow like Vegas.
i can only assume Perry is still doing that? Lebron is doing the latter, again ctown has to show something other than sport. What will it be?
I thought it was the frugal folks at Davis Besse that almost turned us radioactive? Anyway,those two sites are old single reactor sites. We need a half dozen multiple reactor plants to really be big time. Oh and don't worry about the waste. I have an idea. What say we store it at one of John McCains houses.
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Legend
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ok, ill play along with the BIG ideas notion.
Lake Erie is the 11th largest freshwater body on earth.
What about Lake Erie? How de we sustainably develop lake Erie and benefit NE Ohio's economy?
I don't know....fishing has been developed...shipping has been developed....the islands have been developed....it's a little cold for nudist colony's. It would have to be something beyond the scope my mind can reach.
As to a later comment by Fletch...I don't disagree with him. I am a Clevelander and will always tell people that...and always talk up the town.....but it is a hell hole. It's a dirty place.
You go through the squares and are hit up by bum after bum...the sidewalks need some steam cleaning.The mission food wagons park on public square to feed the homeless....you have to get that out of there.
I would always stay at the Renaissance Hotel on the square, but quit doing that a few years ago because it didn't feel safe walking back to your hotel with people sleeping on the streets.
From a social standpoint, the city needs to set up a homeless "campus" a few blocks away where these people can eat and find shelter. You don't see that problem in Chicago because the homeless are run out of the tourist areas...Cleveland needs to do the same.
If you want people to come back and spend outside dollars, you can't expect that to happen if people have to step over some bag woman sleeping on the sidewalk.
That may be a sad commentary on how people feel about the homeless and what they want and don't want to see.....but I am just telling you like it is.
When I now come to town...I head for Westlake and check in to the Hampton or the Red Roof and spend my money out there. The only money I spend in Cleveland is for a parking spot for the game, maybe lunch before the game, and money at the stadium....I may run out to the West Side Market and brewery on Saturday for a hour or so. Cleveland is losing maybe $500 every time I come up...and that is 4-5 times a year
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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You are spot on with your commentary Peen.
Though I do think they have done what you were saying about moving the homeless off the square. I know they imposed a curfew on people loitering on the square and also outlawed the food wagons from feeding people there. They also have this program where they have people walking the streets downtown with brooms and garbage cans trying to keep it cleaned up. It is getting better but it has a long ways to go.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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As to a later comment by Fletch...I don't disagree with him. I am a Clevelander
Im not saying C town is shangrala, cleveland was ranked the poorest city a year or two ago, and I believe we were #2 this year, behind detroit. This I know and do not dispute.
This is a slap in the face. I could never comprehend this for a second, when talking about Cleveland
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I as a native could care less what happens
President - Fort Collins Browns Backers
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