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The reason Quinn struggled in big games was because he had no talent around him at all....how many NFL players from his teams are around? Ryan Harris? I think hes the only one..
JMHO.
That depends, are we counting MLB players? 
yebat' Putin
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How has ND faired since Quinn has left? 
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how is it that we "educated fans" on these forums blast the "other fans" for being so impatient on our qbs but when we (read: I) try to give each of our qb time and we (read: I) emphasize patience and recognition of improvement, you (read: you) try to blast me for it? I'm not a "DA lover" nor was I a "Frye lover" or am I a "Quinn hater." the sooner you get that through your thick skull, the sooner you can stop labeling me. i don't know how much clearer i can put this. just because i dont' share your rainbow and lollipop views doesn't mean i'm AGAINST your viewpoint, so you don't need to defend it against me. i could care less about being wrong about qbs as long as we have one. just because it was my opinion that i saw the improvement in DA does not mean i need to nit pick at whoever's starting just to make myself feel better now that he's been benched.
there are plenty of us on this board who have been saying the exact thing as jaws since the end of the broncos game and from the get-go, we're labeled the quinn haters and the DA backers yet when someone like jaws comes out and says it, all of you have to swallow your words, say that you like jaws, and say "yea, well we know quinn'll have his rough patches but it was a solid start" ...WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT THE REST OF US HAVE BEEN SAYING ANYWAYS! the simple fact is the start was solid but nothing spectacular. you can point at that stupid rating all you want be he didn't do anythign special. aside from the one throw to stallworth that was an almost-TD, he hit people that were rediculously open. he didn't really need to do anything special because people were not near his receivers all night! and now that jaws says that quinn didn't really anticipate people getting open, it's ok because he's not a hater and i am? wow. convenient.
and lastly, that quote that i emphasized? there were posters here who noted AND supplied scoutting reports that said that quinn would sometimes blatantly miss the open targets. those posters were blasted as quinn haters, DA lover, and many of the main posters here put their reps on the line when they said that they watched quinn throughout college and never saw him do that. well now, we have this unbiased, great qb person who says that quinn did exactly that. on the final drive. that drive where everyone blamed winslow for costing us that first down. well now we know that more of that blame goes on quinn too. are you ready to admit it? or are you still salivating over that 104 rating?
get a grip. it was a solid start. it wasn't amazing. he put up a 104 but it's exactly like his first game in the rookie preseason against the lions 3rd string defense. underneath was open all night and that's all he had to do.
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Quinn will get plenty of time.
Frustrations run high, so that could be a factor, but you're right in the sense that, besides being the home town boy, there is no other choice.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I dont think we really learn anything major at all watching Quinn this year...only some general things like arm strength and accuracy...but the mental part of the game..we wont know until 2009.
I disagree, especially given the remaining schedule. The Bills, Texans, Colts, Philly & Steelers will give us plenty of opportunity to see quite a bit, especially how he handles pressure, reads blitzes, moves in the pocket, makes decisions and finds the open man. We should also see how his mobility is a factor. There's plenty to find out over the next several weeks.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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IF he fails to read blitzes, and handle pressue this season it really doesnt mean much. That is why I said..you cant put to much stock either way into this season.
Reading the field, learning what throws he can and cant make will all be learned this year....reading blitzs and such takes time.
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Back at ya!
Z has you pegged.
Any first time starter you use caution with. One game is not a career.
There is great cause for optimism. We all saw it. But what we saw were tangible things that can be built on. Something we didn't see in DA.
There's no magic bullet than can say one way or the other about the future. But there is certainly things to be cautiously optimistic about.
And that's a refreshing change of pace IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quinn will get plenty of time.
Frustrations run high, so that could be a factor, but you're right in the sense that, besides being the home town boy, there is no other choice.
Depending on how the season plays out, BQ could benefit from the same things DA benefitted from this season.. deflected blame. If the defense continues to struggle and we continue to struggle running the ball, etc, a lot of whatever blame BQ should get, will be deflected elsewhere, just like it was for DA...
yebat' Putin
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I'm not saying this season is the end all be all of who this QB is, just that we will learn quite a bit about how he does things. And I'm not saying that it won't be a learning process, but he's been in the system a year and a half, utter failure is not an option at this point... He's going to have to show that he at least gets it, and has the talent to retain the starter spot. We can't afford to wait until TC to find out if he's improving.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I see what your saying...I think he looked like he atleast "gets it"...I think some are saying he has the "it" factor. I think we'll see some of "it".
I just hope BQ does something that none of our prior QB's have done...learn from thier mistakes...and improve.
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And the tendency is to put it all on his shoulders... lest we forget, we need solid play by the line, a good run game, good blocking by the TE's and backs, the receivers to catch the freakin' ball and some D in the 4th quarter. Without these things, he'll look like crap no matter how much "it" he has, he'll just be one more "it" stain, ala DA.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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"Tonight should be interesting."
And it too won't a career make. As long as it gets compared with Apples to Apples.
You know if its gusting winds then compare it to the DA Bengal game. Or snow + winds compared with last years Bills game.
One should have an inkling of what kind of QB BQ is after his 8 games this season.
Which doesn't mean that is exactly what he will be...just an Inkling. Just like I have an inkling Flacco will make it - Just like I had an Inkling that Young (Titans) won't.
Not many 1st or 2nd year players had a debut as well as BQ...but if he does it 2 times in a row that will be something special.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Our favorite Toad has not said anything deragotory about BQ in this thread and has been very fair in 99% os what he has said ... and as usual Z has some comprehension issues .... thats who he is .... however the Toad man LIED about BQ in another thread .... just thought U should know that .... 
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But you just lied about that, so if you lied, then I'm not lying
Well? What did we see from Quinn?
Clearly, that wasn't the Donks defense out there. They came hard and heavy against Quinn. He made some good throws (Winslow and Harrison come to mind) and some bad ones (Stallworth and most of his deep balls) he stood in the face of pressure and delivered, then got greedy and nearly got picked.
All in all, that was about what I was expecting out of him in that weather, on the road, against that defense. He should have had a couple of INT's, but he'll also have some TD's dropped on him this year. That's how the NFL works.
On a positive note, he stood in there pretty well against pressure and didn't seem to get rattled. The throw to Harrison was a smart read and very clutch. The throw to Stallworth that should have been picked is one he'll learn not to make in the future. I was pleased to see how much mustard and how well he spun the ball in the cold on deeper throws. The negative was that the throws were either off the mark or shouldn't have been heaved at all. The one that I thought was the best one was where Edwards was trippin' around with McGee, where there could have been a flag. Edwards didn't do Quinn any favors by not continuing to hussle towards the corner of the end-zone.
On a side note, there was a thought earlier this year making it's way around that Quinn threw a "more catchable ball" that may help Edwards. BS. Edwards dropped what I counted to be 3 passes tonight. He's always going to be this guy. That will not change. We either accept him for what he is, or we don't. End of story.
I saw some things he needs to work on, I saw some good decisions, I saw some poor ones. Just another step in his progression, and one that shouldn't surprise anyone.
The one theme I'm starting to pick up on here revolves around his desire to always win the game for his team. That's something I saw in college, something I saw last week, something I heard when Kornholer quoted him (who has his nose so far up Brady's ass he can taste what Quinn had for Dinner) and something I saw tonight. He needs to learn that this isn't Notre Dame, and that he's going to win or lose because of his teammates. If he continues to press, he's going to cause more problems than he solves. It's something I wouldn't expect him to have a hard time overcoming.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Well said. I thought his long blls were awful but he may have been trying to compensate for any wind by not throwing the ball with more arc. His longer intermediate passes looked very good and they are harder to throw.
His stupidity (hard nosed football) showed on his first run where he chose to put his head down and hit the defender with his shoulder. Love his heart but he needs to learn a couple of yards isn't worth a shoulder injury.
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His stupidity (hard nosed football) showed on his first run where he chose to put his head down and hit the defender with his shoulder. Love his heart but he needs to learn a couple of yards isn't worth a shoulder injury.
Think a coach might have pulled him aside? The second time he ran the boot he got the first down and stepped out of bounds. 
I think the first one was just a young guy trying to prove to his teammates that he's willing to sell out to win the game if he has too...
yebat' Putin
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On a side note, there was a thought earlier this year making it's way around that Quinn threw a "more catchable ball" that may help Edwards. BS. Edwards dropped what I counted to be 3 passes tonight. He's always going to be this guy. That will not change. We either accept him for what he is, or we don't. End of story.
unfortunatly your probably dead right....edwards dropped some balls that even a caveman coulda caught.... 
quinn needs to throw the ball to a hard to catch spot on purpose so edwards can pull off some amazing circus catch....
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Been saying all along that the Browns needed more of a game manager, and Quinn did that. He converted some big third downs. He was also hamstrung by the same brick hands that had hurt Anderson at times. I think Edwards dropped 5 catchable balls in one game on Quinn. But that happens in 28 degrees and windy. What he didn't do was what Anderson did at Cincy last year. Give the INT's Palmer through right back, with interest.
I don't care about the stats. The kid has poise and he is either lucky or good enough to not make mistakes... I'll settle for either right now.
saw a guy whose highly rated that came out at the same time as Quinn, under absolutely no pressure throw three picks. I saw a kid in his second start under consistent pressure only take one sack and again he did not turn the ball over. I saw him throw a perfect over the shoulder pass to Jamal in the corner of the endzone with blanket coverage that Jamal dropped. I saw Braylon let that third and long go through his hands and hit him in the chest right before we punted and the Bills went on thrier final TD drive. I see a kid consistently making good split second decisions throwing to receivers who aren't getting a lot of separation.
When you look at the running game that both teams had to work with outside of Harrisons one long run and the difference in pressure that the two quarterbacks were under then you can see that Quinn was two strikes down and still came away with a W.
Both our lines got man handled and our kick coverage was as bad as I've ever seen it and some of you are going to come down on Quinn? He was one of the few bright spots. Anderson wouldn't have thrown a couple of almost picks under that pressure, he would have delivered the real thing, along with another notch in the loss column.
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I'm reading a book right now about the 1990s great Dallas Cowboy teams.
Troy Aikman was a great, talented QB. Early in his career he had many bad games statistically. Worse than Quinn had last night. TROY AIKMAN! They stuck with him and won 3 super bowls. We aren't that far away. People need to give into the fact that Quinn is the future of this franchise and realize it was his 2nd game. He won the game. It wasn't a perfect performance but he is far from a finished product. Look at some of the gamelogs early on in Elway's career. Or Roethlisberger. Any of the great ones.
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Did u just call me U (a Liar ... ) ... naaaa ... u know better ... *L* ... On Brey .... I will never stick up for him although this may be interpreted by some as I am ... but heres one thing I took from last nights game ... He will always drop some like almost all the big play recievers will now a days .... just an unfortunate fact in todays NFL ... and he has done this since U of M ... and has done it here ... but this year is different ... He is obviously fighting himself ... the last drop really drove that home ot me ... he literally looked like he was trying to throw a job at the football ... he looked like he had never caught a football in his life ... and the announcers said hes spending time after practice with the jugs machine and when he catches them he is double clutching everything ... This thing has obviously gotten into his head ... he has NO CONFIDENCE ... none what so ever .... and I highly doubt its going to change this year ... he needs to get away and relax and quit trying so damm hard and get his confidence back ... Until then he is useless to himself and us .. unfortunately we can't bench him because then he could really go into the tank ... we need to show we still have faith in him and just ride it the hell out ... he is really struggling with a lack of confiedence and that brings out the internal demons .. he will always drop some .. but he will not drop this many and he will make some SPECTACULAR CATCHES ... and we have seen maybe one or two of them this year ... another sign of his lack of confidence and that he is "fighting the ball" .. I hope U don't try and twist that into a Lie .. LIAR ..
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He has the yips.
yebat' Putin
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j/c
Let me see if I have this right. Quinn, 14-36, and he did good, according to most on this thread, because he had "poise".
BE: yea, he drops a lot of passes, but who cares?
It's amazing what a win will do for a pathetic showing by the team.
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j/c
Let me see if I have this right. Quinn, 14-36, and he did good, according to most on this thread, because he had "poise".
BE: yea, he drops a lot of passes, but who cares?
It's amazing what a win will do for a pathetic showing by the team.
Hey made some big throws. He didn't throw a pic.
Go look at gamelogs of Kosar, Elway, Montana, Marino, Aikman, Steve Young, the Mannings, Tom Brady, Roethlisberger in their first 16 or so starts. They had statistical games that didn't look pretty but they won and made plays.
If you're expecting or asking for huge numbers game in and game out at this stage in Quinn's career you do not know NFL football. It doesn't happen like that. He is far from a finished product and there will be bad games along with good.
But if you have no bias and you watched that kid last night you will be saying the same thing most saw: the kid is the real deal.
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Uh-huh.
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But if you have no bias and you watched that kid last night you will be saying the same thing most saw: the kid is the real deal.
You speaking of having "no bias" is the epitome of irony.
To the poster who recently asked Diam why he was so critical of his boy Quinn, I present to you the above example of Homerism at it's finest. By attempting to increase the perception of a player after a sub-par game, the opposite becomes the effect.
Quinn will continue to learn and develop. He doesn't need Homers embarassing his cause along the way. It's far better to admit the flaws of a young QB's singular game than to ignore the growing pains and sell it as something it wasn't.
To you, I present your new moniker:
 "KING HOMER!"
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Uh-huh.
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But if you have no bias and you watched that kid last night you will be saying the same thing most saw: the kid is the real deal.
You speaking of having "no bias" is the epitome of irony.
To the poster who recently asked Diam why he was so critical of his boy Quinn, I present to you the above example of Homerism at it's finest. By attempting to increase the perception of a player after a sub-par game, the opposite becomes the effect.
Quinn will continue to learn and develop. He doesn't need Homers embarassing his cause along the way. It's far better to admit the flaws of a young QB's singular game than to ignore the growing pains and sell it as something it wasn't.
To you, I present your new moniker:
"KING HOMER!"
Whatever my moniker becomes, I can tell you after reading your posts for years before I ever signed up here; I don't feel you're fit to make any type of judgements about football related issues.
I mean what side of the fence do you sit? You don't really seem to commit. You're not suggesting we bring Anderson back, are you? This kid is the guy now. It was his 2nd career start. I'm not sure what point you're trying to drive home. I'm not a homer other then the fact I know what we have in Quinn, I think he's going to be the best player at the position since Kosar (which you probably have few memories of--you're probably still coming out of an adolescent age).
To refute whatever point you're trying to make, I'd have to know what point you were trying to make. You're not being clear enough. If its just that I'm a homer, you're wrong.
The trend I notice in your posts is you tend to just play devils advocate. You're abrasive and contentious on arguments. Don't be that way--you are overmatched this time.
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That little toad at the end of your posts makes me want to jump off a cliff; also. 
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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We can win a Super bowl with Quinn at QB. That is the bottom line. Remember I said it.
No need for monday morning QB's to nitpick his second start. But you thought Anderson was the guy for a while. Shows how far off base you can get.
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No need for monday morning QB's to nitpick his second start.
"All rise.................KING HOMER SPEAKS!"
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Remember I said it.
I remember you said Lawson would start based on you "knowing someone, actually several people" on the Browns. How's that workin' out for you?
Ok........I'm done pickin' on you tonight.........but just for tonight
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Basically here's how I think Quinn played...
He did some good things, he did some bad things.
I think he played better than his stats indicated. He didn't get rattled despite being under more pressure than I've seen our OL give up in over a year.
The good plays that stick out in my mind are the play actions where he immediately saw his read and got the throw. The lob to Harrison is a throw I've ever, ever seen DA make (for comparisons sake).
Despite being under intense pressure, he didn't take sacks aside from that one where he had no chance to even make a read. I feel he's earning the trust of his offensive line by getting the ball off quickly, that was a way DA won their trust.
I didn't realize his stat line was 14-36 until after the game. It was a game where his stats truly were not indicative of his play, I felt he played better.
BUT...it was clear to me he wasn't used to the speed of the Bills' D. He made some poor throws and some awful decisions (those two near picks).
It was his poise that was most impressive on top of a few throws that stood out in my mind. Otherwise, he clearly has some work to do. We didn't see enough from the Skycam to tell just how much Quinn left on the field last night.
I'm looking forward to seeing how he progresses as the year finishes.
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I pretty much agree with that assessment, though you might be a tad more optimistic about the performance than I am. About the only thing I think really didn't show up in the numbers were the iffy throws down the field. There were a few that he didn't have any business making. If he makes those throws in two years, I'll be heavy-handed with my comments, but it was his second start. It'd be a miracle to expect him to do otherwise.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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i've been really impressed by one thing quinn does, which i haven't really seen before on this team.
he makes a little move, in the pocket, and sets up to throw again.
at this point he hasn't always made the correct or accurate throw after that move, but he has that process down. being able to make a move in the pocket to buy that extra second to throw is a pretty big deal.
the other point i'd make is to counter the idea that quinn wants to win the game by himself.
i got the impression that this idea was inferred by quinn's comments about how if the team loses, it's his fault and he feels like he is good enough to get it done.
IMO these comments are made by a young guy trying to assume a leadership role in the offence. when he has a breakout game we will see him talking about how well the other players performed, and take a minimalist approach to taking credit.
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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No need for monday morning QB's to nitpick his second start.
"All rise.................KING HOMER SPEAKS!"
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Remember I said it.
I remember you said Lawson would start based on you "knowing someone, actually several people" on the Browns. How's that workin' out for you?
Ok........I'm done pickin' on you tonight.........but just for tonight
Keep an eye on my posts.
I am more then confident that I will have some information in the weeks to come that people like you will not.
And I was done picking on you. 
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Quinn will no doubt be the leader of this team after camp next season...you know this guy is gonna work his arse off this offseason.
I havent seen anything yet to make me think he wont be a great player....he made, and will continue to make some dumb throws and decision as all young guys do.
If he works at it, Quinn will be the man.
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The trend I notice in your posts is you tend to just play devils advocate. You're abrasive and contentious on arguments. Don't be that way--you are overmatched this time.
I hope you're right.
I want to be a witness!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,448
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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... " abrasive and contentious " ... He can't be talking about you ????
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
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The Bills, Texans, Colts, Philly & Steelers will give us plenty of opportunity to see quite a bit, especially how he handles pressure, reads blitzes, moves in the pocket, makes decisions and finds the open man. We should also see how his mobility is a factor. There's plenty to find out over the next several weeks.
Not to quote myself, but I will anyway... We saw some good things, even though it wasn't a great game by the new QB. I thought he handled pressure fairly well, moved well in the pocket, for the most part made good decisions, was usually able to find the open man, (though he did miss a couple wide open receivers,) showed that he's a threat to run and looks smooth on the rollout and throwing on the run.
It's only his second game and he certainly didn't burn down the house with his completion percentage or number of TDs, but he protected the ball fairly well and put together a critical long drive when we were buried deed and needed a TD. That was fairly impressive.
The D pressured him all night and he hung in there and took his licks... he should have a lot to take home and learn from in that game. I'm glad I got to see him throw down field some, and while it wasn't always pretty, he did make about three nice throws over 15 yards. Of course, once again, the QB was burned by Edwards more than once. Fortunately, it won't cost Quinn his job.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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I am more then confident that I will have some information in the weeks to come that people like you will not.
If you actually were of that ilk you wouldn't brag about it.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,440 |
Quote:
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I am more then confident that I will have some information in the weeks to come that people like you will not.
If you actually were of that ilk you wouldn't brag about it.
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Ok all, I haven't read through the whole thread, but Lawson is going to start tomorrow's game. Also expect Harrison to have an increased role. That is it for the changes. Shante Orr will get some time as well at end in place of Shaun Smith.
This is what his sources told him about last weeks game. None of it is correct and why would a LB start at DE for Smith 
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,877 |
If you actually were of that ilk you wouldn't brag about it.
While I think Nosebleed is blowing smoke here it's hardly accurate that none of the people who post "insider" info brag about. It's no secret that coachb and I don't get along but it's also no secret that he's always telling us about his inside contacts. And there are others that hardly try to hide the fact that they know someone in Berea or at least act like they do.
Do I think NB knows an insider? Nope. But to be honest I have my doubts about some of the other guys, too. Hey, it's the Internet, most of us have no clue if anyone is who or what they say they are. It's always best to have a healthy amount of skepticism in my opinion.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns should be cautiously
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