DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns should be cautiously optimistic about Quinn

I also have to add one more thing bro ... BQ got a CRAP LOAD of practice at ND throwing while be converged on, hit. forced to run and on his sway down to the ground ... his frosh and sophs he was 50% QB ... 50% tackling dummy ... *L* ...

after his first start freshman year u knew he was one tough ombre ... he must have been hit 15 times and DRILLED over a half a dozen and he contiously stood there knowing he was going to get blasted and still got the passes off ... I must have cringed 8 or 9 times that day .. and said ... Oh My .. is he gonna get up ... and not only did he do it again ... he'd get whapped again the next play .... me and bro questioned his brains that day ... *L* ...

and the rest of that year and the next year were pretty much replays ..

I swear to U ... when they said he started working out like a mad man.... I immediately thought of the beating he took his first two years and wanted to be better prepared for it should he ever be in that situation again ....

You are correct Toad.

The hit that broke the bone was in the first quarter. He played the entire game with it basically.

I'm told its a TINY TINY fracture. That it might cause Quinn some pain, but as for suffering an injury that would put him on the sidelines he's at no more risk than any other QB who is starting in the league sunday, as it would take another hit of similar proportion to knock him out, and any QB who takes a similar hit has that much of a chance of being knocked out.

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The hit that broke the bone was in the first quarter.

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Yeah, that's what BQ stated.

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He played the entire game with it basically.

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Yeah, we watched the game.

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I'm told its a TINY TINY fracture.

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Wow! Me too!

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That it might cause Quinn some pain, but as for suffering an injury that would put him on the sidelines he's at no more risk than any other QB who is starting in the league sunday, as it would take another hit of similar proportion to knock him out, and any QB who takes a similar hit has that much of a chance of being knocked out.

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Yep, that's what they said.

"sorry bro didn't pick up the play he may have broke his thumb on"

thats ok - btw its his index finger not the thumb...I don't think he would play if its the thumb.

Thought initially they stated it was the 4th qtr but I guess if BQ stated 1st then thats when it happened. Its his finger.

Just one thing on the jump pass. Its all arm/shoulder and you can get excellent mustard on it upto 20 Yards regardless if jumping up sideways, back - as long as you relax from the shoulder to the hand. And the throw to relatively be in front of you...but a corner fade can be done. BQ on that TD pass wasn't going back enough to endanger the pass possible a milimeter...lol note momentum had him going back with his drop. As long as he jumped off his right/back foot he was fine. There is no tranfer...its all shouler/arm.

BTW - it turned out to be a very accurate throw that got to its target not in a soft floating fashion...it had some zip...its obvious to me that BQ has practice, practice and then practiced some more and can throw that pass within 10 yards better than some with no rush and proper transfer.

JMHO...his momentum can be going back, forward, sideways on the jump pass as long as his shoulder/arm is a different entity, relaxed and flowing towards the target.

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I'm told its a TINY TINY fracture.

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I am told that too ... by the newspaper.

Browns Insider: Brady Quinn to visit orthopedic specialist
by Mary Kay Cabot/Plain Dealer Reporter
Tuesday November 25, 2008, 12:15 AM

Joshua Gunter/The Plain Dealer
Brady Quinn will seek a second opinion his broken right index finger.
• Browns coach Romeo Crennel and General Manager Phil Savage are on the hot seat

Browns quarterback Brady Quinn will visit orthopedic specialist Dr. James Andrews on Tuesday in Birmingham, Ala., for a second opinion on his fractured right index finger, a source confirmed Monday night.

Before news of the visit to Andrews broke Monday night on ESPN, coach Romeo Crennel reiterated in his afternoon press conference Quinn would start Sunday against the Colts. Now, it appears that's up in the air pending the exam.

Crennel also confirmed Monday that Quinn has a damaged tendon in the finger in addition to the fracture at the top of the it.

"Yes, that small fracture is where the tendon is attached," said Crennel. "It's right at the tip, and it makes it tough for him to spin [the ball] the way he wants to spin it."

After telling local reporters after the game that his injury wasn't a factor in his performance, Quinn revealed to SI.com's Peter King in a phone interview later Sunday night that the damaged tendon impacted his release. King wrote in his Monday Morning Quarterback column that Quinn told him the injury "makes it doubly difficult to spin the ball with the kind of rotation he usually has coming out of his right hand."

Quinn was unavailable for comment Monday.

Crennel, who yanked Quinn after his second interception of the game and an 8-for-18 performance for a 21.3 rating, reiterated that the injury was a factor in Quinn's benching.

"The combination of some misreads, a couple of turnovers, my knowledge of the finger situation during the week and the way things were going in the game, I thought that I needed to make the change," Crennel said.

Despite the injury -- and Quinn's own admission that his throwing was affected -- Crennel is getting hammered locally and nationally for benching Quinn in only his third start.

"The big story is about the quarterback and my decision to try to get the team a spark with a different quarterback," Crennel said. "Brady is a good quarterback, and he's going to be a good quarterback. . . . When this team doesn't get a spark, it struggles, particularly at home."

Crennel said he told Quinn on Sunday night that he hadn't lost his job, but somehow that information was misinterpreted "because of the frustration" of getting benched.

Crennel also stressed that Quinn is not on short leash, which Quinn said he was Sunday night.

"If he were on a short leash, I would've told him before the game that 'if you throw two interceptions, I'm going to take you out,' " said Crennel. "But I didn't do that because it was not my intention. Every game in the NFL is different. You've got to play the circumstances as they come up."

Crennel said he would've been happy if Anderson pulled out a victory, but "Brady would still have been the quarterback."

He said the coaches "like the things he's shown us since he's taken over the starting job. His composure, his leadership and he doesn't get rattled. We like all of that. So that's why he's going to continue to be the starter and see if we can help him more. That becomes the thing, that we need to help him more going down the stretch here. And if we can do that, we might be able to win a game."

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Crennel also confirmed Monday that Quinn has a damaged tendon in the finger in addition to the fracture at the top of the it.

"Yes, that small fracture is where the tendon is attached," said Crennel. "It's right at the tip, and it makes it tough for him to spin [the ball] the way he wants to spin it."

After telling local reporters after the game that his injury wasn't a factor in his performance, Quinn revealed to SI.com's Peter King in a phone interview later Sunday night that the damaged tendon impacted his release. King wrote in his Monday Morning Quarterback column that Quinn told him the injury "makes it doubly difficult to spin the ball with the kind of rotation he usually has coming out of his right hand."

Quinn was unavailable for comment Monday.

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I wonder how many Browns fans will now reconsider Crennel's decision to take Quinn out of the game?

Obviously, Crennel knew a heckuva lot more about Quinn's situation than the Browns fans. A friend of mine who had been a QB a long time ago, questioned if Quinn's finger was not affecting the ball rotation.

The way my QB friend tried to explain it...he said you end up palming the ball more and it does affect you accuracy, especially on the long throws. I'm not sure I understand what he was trying to say, never being a QB but it sounds reasonable to me.

Knowing that Quinn's injury was more extensive than first known, how many still believe Crennel did the wrong thing in pulling Quinn in the 3rd Qtr?

Well I could make the argument that he shouldn't have started him with the fracture.
Thats where I would go..sit him down..who cares what the fans think..your future QB can't risk further injury since the middle of the line is allowing Prison Break to play before our eyes.

RAC made a horrible decision...still.

If Edwards doesn't have his head so far up his butt, BQ would have been 11-15 approx 130 yards and 1 int. No way he should have been pulled...and on many levels.

RAC is a bad head coach...but a great guy. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can get back to business.

Mac, it just doesn't matter what the facts are. Most that have been babbling about what happened have repeated their lies so many times that they now believe them as fact. They aren't going to let a little thing like the truth get in the way.

Do you think it is possible BQ mislead the staff on exactly how much impact the injury really had on his ability to throw??

Not only possible, but very likely. That is not a knock on BQ. He finally fulfilled his dream. He didn't want to sit. It is very much like Kosar hiding his finger from the coaching staff in the playoffs. He even came out and played with a rubber band contraption on it if you remember. BQ also could have gotten shot up and it had worn off as the game progressed (pure speculation as I haven't asked anyone about that)

I don't fault BQ for wanting to play through pain and I definately don't fault RAC for puling him when he determined the injury was effecting his play.

The question is, how long will those that were inventing reasons why BQ was pulled ignore the facts? Actually, I'm willing to bet that once they actually acknowledge them, they will then blame RAC for playing BQ in the first place....that way they can still say RAC is an idiot and needs to be fired now. Cover all the bases, you know?

"Crennel's move makes more since now, knowing the full story concerning the extent of Quinn's injury, IMO"

It would be damned hard to argue against that statement,unless someone where to think about it real hard.
I would have to wonder why the qb coach,or the OC,didn't discover this problem during practice or even during warm-ups.
Did anyone expect this 2nd year 1st time starter to admit he was too injuried to play.
Mon.mourning he's named the starter for the following game.That is an amazing recovery.Within 12 hours he goes from too hurt to throw to ready to go?

Rex doesn't suck. He can hold Ryan's jock. ( I hope he gives it back before next season however. But he can't play as well as Ryan.

Browns are being very hush hush about Quinn's injury. Hopefully he can continue to play but knowing the way things go for this organization I fear the worst.

It was a combination of things, OT. The thought, and consensus, was that a healthy DA was a better option for THAT GAME than an injured BQ. BQ was pressing and was making poor decisions, in part, due to the injury and limitations the injury caused.

Rex is a solid BACKUP. But not a solid starter, it makes a big difference in Hanks, and Kevins play VS having Ryan in there. Eric has toughed it out all year, but you don't play as well when hurt as you do when healthy. IMO the blitzes up the middle have been more a fault of the scheme than the players however. Also a few of those blitzes have worked because the RB was slow getting into position to make the block.

Does it really matter which one Crennel wants to start?
Friday, November 28, 2008
Mary Kay Cabot
Plain Dealer Reporter

Now that Romeo Crennel has declared quarterback Brady Quinn the starter for 2009, what does this mean for Derek Anderson, who led the Browns to a 10-6 record and made the Pro Bowl last season?

Are these final five games an audition for the eight to 10 NFL teams looking for a new quarterback?

Perhaps. But he might not want to put the house on the market just yet.

Why? Because Crennel might not be the guy making the decision on next season's starting quarterback.

If Crennel is fired -- and signs are pointing that way -- the new coach will want his say on Quinn vs. Anderson. Or -- perish the thought -- he may not be enamored with either.

If they land a strong-minded Super Bowl-winning coach like Bill Cowher, you can bet he'll make the call -- even though the organization has settled upon Quinn as its quarterback of the future.

On Tuesday, Browns owner Randy Lerner admitted he's weary of the quarterback carousel and instructed the team to pick one guy and run with him. "I have said just that," said Lerner.

So when Crennel came out Wednesday and unequivocally named Quinn his man no matter what Anderson does in the final five games, it appeared he had that edict firmly in mind.

And how did Anderson feel about hearing Quinn was the starter regardless of how this season ends?

"I'll worry about it when the situation arises," said Anderson.

If the Browns hire a college coach or an NFL assistant with no head coaching experience, he might be less likely to challenge the organization's commitment to Quinn. After all, the Browns surrendered their first-round pick in 2008 to acquire him.

Even then, the new coach might recognize that Quinn is coming off a finger injury and has only one healthy NFL start under his belt. In that case, keeping Anderson might be wise - even though he's due a guaranteed $5 million roster bonus in March and has a $1.45 million base salary for 2009. Crennel acknowledged Wednesday having both back is a possibility.

"I'm giving it everything I've got," said Anderson, who has a 13-13 record as a starter, including 3-5 this year. "If I'm here, I'm here. If I'm somewhere else, I'm somewhere, else. I'll deal with it when that time comes."

If the Browns decide that keeping Anderson would be divisive for a locker room shocked by his benching, they'll trade him. But will a team be willing to trade for him before his bonus is due in March? Because it's guaranteed, the new team would have to pick up the tab. If the Browns can't trade him before then, they'd have to pay it and then trade him.

A team willing to pay the bonus might surrender less in a trade. If the Browns foot the bill, they'd probably get more in return.

Teams needing quarterbacks next season include Minnesota, San Francisco, Detroit, Kansas City and Tampa Bay. There's also uncertainty in places like Philadelphia and St. Louis.

What the Browns must decide is, are they positive Quinn is the guy after one healthy start? It certainly wasn't a unanimous decision to start him in the first place.

The Browns had hoped to have a much better evaluation of Quinn by season's end, but now have just 11 quarters to look at - and only four before he broke the finger in the first quarter of the Buffalo game. In those 11 quarters, he threw two touchdowns, two interceptions and went 1-2. In his lone victory, he had the benefit of four defensive takeaways and a 56-yard field goal by Phil Dawson. His 66.6 rating is only slightly ahead of Anderson's 66.0.

Quinn's rating dropped dramatically with each start - from 104.3 to 55.9 to 21.3 - but he was probably never the same after breaking the finger. Therefore, the Browns have only one start on which to grade him - a promising outing against a subpar Broncos defense.

If Anderson returns to his 2007 form in these last five games - and if playmakers, such as Braylon Edwards, can catch the ball - his trade value will increase or, he'll have made a case to stick around next season. Even Colts coach Tony Dungy acknowledged this week the Browns will do more Sunday with Anderson under center.

"We all have to play better for D.A.," said center Hank Fraley. "We didn't play well when he was in there before. As an offense, if we're playing well, he looks great. If not, he looks bad."

Another possibility, albeit remote, is the Browns trade Quinn if the new guy likes Anderson better.

So as of today, the Browns' growing off-season to-do list includes: deciding on the head coach, deciding on the general manager and deciding on the starting quarterback.

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670

That is what I was thinking.....it's kind of like President Bush telling us what kind of foreign policy positions we are going to follow next year.

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On Tuesday, Browns owner Randy Lerner admitted he's weary of the quarterback carousel and instructed the team to pick one guy and run with him. "I have said just that," said Lerner.

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That is very very very very disheartening ... this is exactly what he should not be doing ... leave football decisions to the football people ... PERIOD!!! ....

this has been one atricious year in many many ways .... but this is the biggest one of them all ... folks were in a heap of trouble until he learns to keep his DUMB ASS nose where it belongs ...

and I'll say one more thing .. I'm getting awful sick of Hank Fraley ... in the Jills game he handled the middle blitzes horribly and twice helped out our gaurds and let LBers run free to BQ ... I have not watched the Texans game as of yet but have heard he was not much better in that game at it ...

Ya, the floodgate in the middle was horribly left open in the Texans game as it was the Bills game.....

I said it after the Jills game .... they picked up on Sumptin in our blocking schemes in the middle ... the floodgates opened 3 times in the Jills game ...

1 time they sent one more than we could block .. they left Hank with 2 guys to block and he picked the "outside" one (witch your NEVER suppose to do ..) ... on that one Stieny went and helped with Joe .. thats what left Hank with two ... and he picked the guy to Stieny's side (thats what i meant by outside) .. so that one was not Hanks fault even though if he called the blocking scheme he should have known his best chance to get help was blocking the guy on Hadnots side ..

the other 2 times ... Hank on the snap went and helped Hadnot and the LBer came at the snap untouched .. Hank has to be AWARE of that and pick it up .. HE NEVER EVEN GAVE IT A NANOO SECOND ....

like i said .. the jills obviously picked sumptin up about our middle blocking schemes or bad habits some of our interior lineman have ... and from what I've heard the Texans did the same thing ...

I won't point fingers as to why the floodgates opened until I;ve seen the game ... unlike most on here .. talking out my ass is not an option ..

Well can anyone say that was really happening before when DA was the starter??
And yes Diam it was happening in the Texan game ..until late..and I observed that , and keep wondering about it.

I would guess that some of the overload in the middle was due to a first time starter at QB. (and I should add that I did not re-watch the game .... because frankly, it made me puke the 1st time through, and I didn;t want that sensation again)

It appeared to me to be similar to what we saw when Frye was in there. Defenses typically come hard and relentlessly after a young QB until they prove that it is too costly to the defense to do so.

Last year teams couldn't come all out against DA, because he (and the offense and receivers) would burn them extra crispy if they did. Defenses adjusted, and the Browns (and DA, and the offense and receivers) never adjusted back.

Next year's challenge, should Quinn be the starter, is to handle the blitzes, and get the ball out immediately in the face of an all out blitz. Recognition and responsibilities of all players on offense must be the first matter of attention .... because if it isn't .... we'll be looking for yet another "savior" at QB in a couple more years .......

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"We all have to play better for D.A.," said center Hank Fraley. "We didn't play well when he was in there before. As an offense, if we're playing well, he looks great. If not, he looks bad."

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diam...your upset over the comments above?

Your homerism is overtaking your gray matter again.

Fraley is admitting something their line coaches probably told them...that their pass protection has sucked and the Oline needs to do better.

diam...the oline pass protection sucked for Anderson and Quinn. I hope your not suggesting that the Oline laid down for Quinn because they like Anderson better or that they are going to block better in the remaining games because they like Anderson better than Quinn. The Oline played poorly for both QBs and they do need to do better even if it's Dorsey behind Fraley.

With Quinn being named the 2009 starter, you should be happy...I know I am. I agree with Lerner, the coaching staff needed to make a commitment to one of the two and go with it. The other guy needs to be traded and if it's Anderson who leaves Cleveland, doing well in the last 5 games might bring the Browns better compensation in a trade, this off season.

See Daim, its all good, not all bad...

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I would guess that some of the overload in the middle was due to a first time starter at QB.

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there is alot of truth in that ... that is what exposed the blocking scheme weakness ... when the jills ran it the first time .. they said .. hey .. there schemes stunk ... lets try it again ... hey ... they stunk again and this time it was cause Hank went and helped and NEVER EVEN GLANCED (that one they could have picked up through film pre-game) ... lets do it again .... and BINGO .. Hank did the same damm thing ...

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(and I should add that I did not re-watch the game .... because frankly, it made me puke the 1st time through, and I didn;t want that sensation again)

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the first time i re-watched it I coated my tummy with milk .. didn't work so good ... the 2nd time I used Pepto Bismol .. worked much better .. *LOL* ...

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It appeared to me to be similar to what we saw when Frye was in there. Defenses typically come hard and relentlessly after a young QB until they prove that it is too costly to the defense to do so.

Last year teams couldn't come all out against DA, because he (and the offense and receivers) would burn them extra crispy if they did.

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your right .. they came after the young QB .. no doubt .. its in the handbook ... difference is that last year we PICKED THE BLITZES UP ... we were AMAZING at blitz pick up last year .. this gave DA the time to make them pay ...

this year ... even before BQ started .. the OL has STUNK at blitz pick up ... they've been HORRIBLE compared to last year ... they went from possibly the best blitz pick up OL in football to one of the worst in one year ..

but this up the middle stuff ... they exposed a weakness ... that had nuttin to do with BQ or being a rookie .. when the MLbers run unabated in a straight line to the QB .. YOUR DEAD ... no time to make them pay ...

I will be interested to see how we did against the Texans and what the causes were ... and then will be interested to see what adjustments we make to fix it ..

I'll wait till I watch it and make my own judgements .. then I'll get back to U ... on the middle blitzes

as is the case more often than not lately U just don't get it ..

Randy's job is to hire FOOTBALL PEOPLE to run his football team .. then get the HELL OUT OF THE WAY AND LET THEM DO THERE JOBS ..

if he is not happy with the job they do its his RIGHT to GET RID OF THEM ... thats alot different than telling them HOW TO DO THERE JOBS .. witch is what he is doing when he says .. pick a QB cuase I am to impatient and can't put up with this no more ..

just because it is his right to tell them how to do there jobs does not mean its SMART ...

hes a FAN that OWNS A TEAM ... that does not make him qualified to TELL HIS FOOTBAL PEOPLE WHAT TO DO WHEN IT COMES TO FOOTBALL STUFF ...

I'll bet my bottom dollar that the two franchises he studied .... the Stilers and Iggles have NEVER HAD there owners go and tell there football people what to do .. EVEN WHEN UNDER COWHER THE STILERS WERE NOT VERY GOOD ... ie: the Stewart years ...

a GOOD OWNER follows my formula .. NOT YOURS ... see Jerry Jones ... its no coincidence when LETS FOOTBALL RUN his team .. they do good .. when he GETS INVOLVED .. not so good ..