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I've been on DQ's case for years now. His angles, his tackling, the way he gets sealed so easily but....

I went through a game where I only even saw Andra Davis twice. The entire game. Not just seeing him in piles or seeing him running around. I didn't even see that. I did see Leon Williams play like a safety backpeddling but where was AD?

DQ...he just got used all game...out of position...backing up on his own...I have no idea what he is doing half the game. But at least I noticed him.

What the hell happened to AD. Does he have some sort of cloak on where I can't see him?

People.....

We need two ILBs or we need to switch to a 43. DQ would be a fine WLB. I think he has trade value as a 43 WLB but come on. How many games do we want to watch the interior of our defense implode. And the Jills OL SUX!

I pray...just like I prayed for Joe Thomas...that we get a physical ILB on this team that make his presence felt. Not what we see...playing patty cake with the Guards and Centers of our opponents.

I'm tired of this game after game after game.

There were a few times tonight where Jackson showed up at ILB. He is definitely limited by his size, but it really hurts him that he doesn't have a more commanding ILB sitting right next to him...one who can stuff the run and draws more blocking in the run game.

I haven't been as adamant about Davis sucking as some on this board have, but tonight he was simply horrific. On the few plays where he was in place, Marshawn Lynch simply bounced right off of him.

Romeo, you said there were going to be changes, which there really weren't besides BQ, and maybe a tad more Harrison and Hall. Honestly, how much worse could it be by sitting Davis a few plays and letting Bell come in!? I mean, come on! Davis won't even be here next year as per his contract being shortened.

Bell is supposed to be a sure-tackling, slobberknocker...which is exactly what we need in the middle of this D behind Rogers. Let's see if he can live up to that rep for just a play or two here and there.

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What the hell happened to AD. Does he have some sort of cloak on where I can't see him?

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Did you see the interception?

I actually have a question about that play.

My DVR didn't get the first part of the first quarter, which apparently was awesome for us. Did he actually make a good play on the ball or just get lucky. I'm not being cynical, I just really want to know.

He made a better catch (dead run out on his fingertips stretched out) than Braylon Edwards has all season.

Granted, our tackling and D were God AWFUL all game but that one was a really nice grab and play by AD.

Davis made two memorable plays...

1) INT
2) Tackle for a loss.

D'Q.... I can only remember that deflection he had in the 4th... Only cuz the QB threw the ball late, but none the less, he made a play.

Yes I saw the interception. And it was a very nice finger tip grab.

And the play behind the LOS he called the play before it happened. It was audible on the TV...he called "pull" and beat the G to the spot and stopped Lynch real early. Nice play.

And that was it...two plays like I said in the first post.

Both our ILBers regularly are being run over by blockers. It's awful. I have no idea why Buffalo just didn't run the ball all game. Actually I have no idea why more teams don't stick with the run longer. I think we're giving up more than 4ypc every game. Why not just run it down our throats?

Teams like the Giants outsmarted themselves. They could have had 200+ yards on the ground had they stuck with it coming out of halftime.

I'm much more comfortable with our CBs, DEs, OLBs, Ss than I am with our ILBs

The problem was the fact that the defenders wanted to play flag football, instead of TACKLE.
AD had a good INT..I've not really criticized his coverage skills..he actually does that ten times better than he plays the run.
But as usual, he whiffed big time on tackles after that..and he had the whole D-unit to assist on that.

Last night poor angles and NO TACKLING hurt everybody out there.

We need 1 ILB, DQ will be fine...We need 2 OLB's as well. Our LB's werent invisible to me...I saw AD out of position MOST OF THE TIME. And Kam getting destroyed most plays. I saw a whole lot of linebacker play last night!

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What the hell happened to AD. Does he have some sort of cloak on where I can't see him?

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I usually would agree with you, however last night I saw him missing tackles numberous times. I looked at it as marked improvement. At least he was in the picture! Our defesnse is laughable.

Both of these guys were dog ... yesterday, save a few plays.

When you sit back and just let your ILB's play zone in the middle of the field and try to rob crossing patterns and quick ins, and they can't stop those plays, you're boned. Lynch's first TD he ran past both ILB's!

I like Andra Davis, but he's been invisible this year. Same with DJ.

Bring on Maualuga, put him on the WILB and then let Bell & Leon play SILB.

Sign me up for that!

Do whatever it takes to get that guy. He can move AND he's a monster sized tackler. He would be a team changing pick. A prototype 34 ILB.

Do whatever it takes!

I never saw any will in any of them to want to absolutely hammer anyone..they just threw themselves at the backs and hoped they would fall down.

They were all arm tackling..Davis whiffed seveal times..DQ also did..

McGinest tries to grab a guy then push him down..grabbing air..the corners were grabbing jerseys like little sissys..
I never saw any sit down and drive into the runners..how many bad angles can defenders take??
If their bodies hurt, it's because they were hitting the turf more than a actual body.

I don't see Shaun expose himself that much..Smith does it more..
But last week and last night it happened a few times..
I have seen the line hold up the blockers and the backers fail to come up and make the stop.
There isn't going to be that many times that all 5linemen and the TE are going to be stacked at the line and a backer never get touched ..
The fact that they aren't quick/instinctive and can actually shed a freaking block is what the problem is..
If you see Davis come up and make a stop ..why the heck can't he do that more?

I should have also said that I am still in complete agreement with the majority that our Linebackers stink. I think once our existing Dline gets the hang of the 3-4, the production of our LB crew will slightly improve. But I really don't even want them around next year to be honest. I really would like to see us get a stud MLB and another Outside Backer who can actually play the 3-4.

Otherwise I say scrap the 3-4 and move to a 4-3. If we move to a 4-3, then Sean Rogers will dominate even more than he does now.

No I like the 34..it's flexable enough to run the 43 out of it..we do that a lot anyway.
What we lack is two fold:
Solid explosive tacklers
Instinctive fast backers
Get those type of guys playing and that defense improves tremendously.

speakin' of backers, whats the status of bell?

does he have the skills to become a solid starter?

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What the hell happened to AD

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He's where he always was, are you just beginning to notice how bad he really is? AD consantly runs up and engages blockers instead of filling gaps, misses key tackles, etc. At least he had a pick last night. Same with Wimbley who seems lost for lack of a better word. At least DQ gets into a play and makes tackles. Willie McG is too damn old and slow to play as much as Crennel plays him. Alex Hall should be seeing the field alot more to be better prepared for next year. I know this is nothing new to most of you guys!

Plain and simple, we have the worst LB core in the NFL. I think it's also safe to say we have the worst LB Coach also, whomever he is.

not just ilbs, outside as well. So many times Marshall hit the hole and there were no linebackers at all !!...AD misreading the hole..DQ outta place, KW...I doan even wanna go there...it seemed like we had no backers at all. Once Marshall hit the hole, he was through to the poor tackling secondary. Next thing ya know...20 yards......wow...thank you the MVP of this team...Phil Dawson


And BTW JL.............quit auditioning for "dances with the stars"

All I have ever heard about Davis is that he's one of the highest character players on this team. I love players like that. But unfortunately his game right now is woeful. There's no other word for it.

I was watching the ball more than usual so I didn't key on players and I don't have the tape like normal. Actually I'm in Ohio now!

But the new leaders need to emerge. Players like Thomas, Quinn, Wright and Pool. Along with entrenched guys like Fraley, Winslow, Dawson and Cribbs.

Folks...we have a team of players...we just need to fill a few holes. But we're not far.

The speed of the pro game is huge. When Davis was 22, he was slow, but was a hard enough worker and smart enough player he survived. Now, he 's lost 1/4 step, and he may as well be a million times slower. He's just maxed out his ability and he's done now. Buffalo last year was probably his last great game, unless we play another one in driving snow so that the whole field is slowed down.

I see the same thing now with Lewis, unfortunately. He's missing a step. He's still a strong runner, a smart runner, and a good leader, but you can see immediately with harrison or cribbs running in the backfield, how much he has lost. I'd love it if RAC had the guts to start harrison and use lewis like bettis was used near the end of his career.

No one stays as fast once they hit late twenties. the players who keep playing do so despite losing their speed. but they lose it.

If we can get a guy that can lead the defense like Davis, but has more athletic ability, and more pop....

I'd be a happy camper.

I find it interesting that you say DQ is a "chase-and-tackle 'backer" and can do well here, but you called Chaun Thompson the same thing on every occassion you could, yet you couldn't wait for him to leave town because there was no place for that in a 3-4, he was much better suited for a 4-3 because of the very fact that he was a "chase-and-tackle backer".

I dub thee: Prince Homer!



On the topic... I don't think that even DQ can work here; he's just the one ILB that least needs IMMEDIATE replacement.
You seem to want two OLB's and one ILB... I tend to lean the opposite direction with the thinking that Alex Hall can do well enough at one OLB spot, so I say give me two ILB's and one OLB.


Either way, we seem to agree that we're at LEAST three quality LBers away from having a 3-4 defense.

D'Q can work here... but there is no way he should be starting like he does... We need a monster to start.

I'll speak my mind about DQ...I'm not impressed..I don't care how many tackles he makes..it's tackles for losses or at least 2-3 yards that would impress me..
A lot of those are coming after good gains are made or over on Davis's side..

I said the other day if I had my way I'd replace all 4 ..DQ and the rest would be backups..but I know thats only wishful thinking..

If it had been done right..only 2 would need replacing right now.
But the only part I agree with Toad is that DQ is safe for another year.
Oh and probably Wimbley..
Hall needs to take over for Willie..

McGinest is having easily his best season in the past five years and he shoudl be benched? Hall's not as good as McG right now.

Huh?
When I said replace I mean after the season.
Willie can' play another full season..but soomething Eo said intrigues me..make the guy play inside ..
I know Hall isn't there..but if WM retires who's going to replace him?
Antwan Peek is too injury prone and he's not stout against the run..but I wouldn't be surprised if they had him compete for that outside spot.

I think this could get its own thread, but its good enough here. If you ask me, the less Romeo talks to the media, the better . . .

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2008/11/browns_costly_missed_tackles_c.html

Browns' costly missed tackles a concern for defensive-minded Romeo Crennel
by Mary Kay Cabot/Plain Dealer Reporter Tuesday November 18, 2008, 9:45 PM

If the Browns hope to wrap up the season with more victories, the defense must wrap up the guy with the ball more.

In their 29-27 victory over the Buffalo Bills, Browns defenders were grasping at air on far too many plays, and it nearly cost the Browns a victory for the third straight week.

Only Phil Dawson's 56-yard field goal and Rian Lindell's 47-yard miss prevented the Browns from becoming the first team in NFL history to lose three straight by blowing leads of at least 13 points in each game.

"We missed a lot of tackles in this game," said defensive-minded Browns coach Romeo Crennel. "I'm not sure how many yet [because of the night game], but it wasn't very good. We emphasized it last week, and we'll emphasize it more this week. We'll see if that can help us."

The whiff-fest reared its ugly head on a second-quarter drive on which running back Fred Jackson ripped off runs of 19 and 17 yards into the Browns' red zone. Then, running back Marshawn Lynch caught a short out at the Browns' 17, cut back inside and dodged five defenders for an 18-yard TD. The score pulled the Bills to within 13-7.

"You don't like it," said Crennel. "You like to think that your defense can tackle, because that's one of the foundations of defense."

The misses continued on the Bills' next drive when Jackson took a direct snap on third down and bustled past Andra Davis and Mike Adams for 5 yards and a first down. Two plays later, Lynch hit the ground after a short flat pass, got up and eluded Leon Williams' high tackle attempt for a 10-yard gain to the 12. Four plays later, Lindell pulled Buffalo to within 13-10 on a 26-yard field goal.

"It's probably more technique [than fatigue] because we tried to change up by rotating guys a little bit," said Crennel. "The previous two weeks, I thought [fatigue] was it, but evidently I was wrong."

The most costly misses came on a 28-yard romp by Lynch to the Browns' 1 late in the fourth quarter. On that play, Shaun Rogers nearly got him in the backfield, and then three other defenders failed to wrap up on the right side. Quarterback Trent Edwards scored on a 1-yard run to put the Bills up, 27-26, with 2:25 remaining.

"As important as the missed tackles are the extra yardage they get from the those missed tackles," said Crennel.

Crennel said it's late in the season to practice live tackling -- especially with all the Browns' bumps and bruises -- but "we put emphasis on it, we talk to them about getting in position. We do drills where you get in position to tackle without tackling the guy live.

"We'll just have to keep harping on that. Knowing where your help is can also make a difference, because some of the missed tackles are results of over-pursuing. If the guy is running this way and now you're chasing him, if you know that you have a defender already outside of you, then you don't have to go as far. You can use your defender. We don't always do that."
Because the Browns are already rotating at most of the defensive spots, there's not much more they can do, personnel-wise, to shake things up. What's more, they have some new injuries at key positions, including a calf injury to defensive lineman Shaun Smith and an ankle injury to Sean Jones that may force more backups into the lineup. "We can just try to keep mixing it up and letting guys know there's competition at every position and that they have to be ready to go and have to do the best they can all the time," he said.

One trend is that the Browns struggle with big gains when they're in their sub-defenses instead of the base 3-4. But with teams using spread formations, it's just something they have to adjust to. They're currently 26th in total defense and 28th against the run. They've surrendered more than 180 yards rushing in two of the past three games and are yielding 4.7 yards per rush, seventh-worst in the league. The Bills rushed for 4.9 per play. Yards-after-catch are also a concern.

On the bright side for the Browns, what the defense is giving up in missed tackles, they've been getting back on takeaways, including four against the Bills. The Browns are tied for fifth in the NFL with 18 takeaways and are third with 13 interceptions, including three against Buffalo. The thefts have hiked the Browns to No. 3 in the NFL with a plus-8 turnover differential.

"The turnovers proved to be the biggest difference in the game," said Crennel.