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"We'll just have to keep harping on that. Knowing where your help is can also make a difference, because some of the missed tackles are results of over-pursuing. If the guy is running this way and now you're chasing him, if you know that you have a defender already outside of you, then you don't have to go as far. You can use your defender. We don't always do that."


It's called being aware..also having good instincts and vision and people talkign to each other...you have to talk while you're playing..
They're always getting out of position..they're not moving their feet to get into position..which is a lack of discipline..meaning they are doing what they know they should be..you don't just dive at a runner..you hit your base and make him commit to make a move, then you explode into him.

I'm sorry but our strength and depth is really in the interior of our defensive line... I think if we have Rogers and Williams (Corey, remember he dominated at DT in GB last year) on the insid with Shaun Smith coming in for depth, move Kam to DE (since OLB is not working well at all), and come up with a good DE opposite him, we could have a top 10, maybe even top 5 defensive line. We have more quality players on the line, so logically I want to see us to go a 4-3. I don't know, there's just a lot of holes, I'm not too pumped about it, but we have potential there if we work on that.

I do not think that Kam would do well as a 4-3 end. I mean, look at him now when he puts his hand down almost every play against the LT.

KAM IS NO 34 DE...
U realized he'd have to eat about 50 Donatoes pizza's per week to get up to about 300-320pds???


And in a 43 he'd still need to add weight..and strength..he's not a force rushing the passer so once more putting him on the edge really isn't going to do a whole lot.

J/C

Moving to a 4-3 from a 3-4 is COMPLICATED. Look at the Texans during the Capers era. They had a 3-4 and converted back into a 4-3. Look at what they had to do:


2006 Draft
LDE (Mario Williams)
MLB (Demeco Ryans)

2006 Free Agency
UT/DE ND Kalu
DT Anthony Weaver

2007 Free Agency
DT Jeff Zgonina

2007 Draft
DT Amobi Okoye
MLB Zach Diles

2008 Free Agency
OLB Kevin Bentley
OLB Chaun Thompson

2008 Draft
OLB Xavier Adibi

From those 3-4 teams, they only really kept DT Travis Johnson and OLB Morlon Greenwood. They got of ILB Kailee Wong, ILB Jay Foreman, ILB Jamie Sharper, OLB Charlie Anderson, OLB Jason Babin, OLB Antwan Peek, OLB Shantee Orr, DE Robaire Smith, and loads of other guys.

Moving to a 4-3 would be a huge overhaul of our defense that could take years.

I'm not in favor of it..what needs to happen is simple..
Phil needs to filter in some quality LB's..no need to change the scheme..change the quality of backers you have.

It's a veteran linebacker defense. There's a reason why Belichick took so long to get a guy like Mayo in there. In Pittsburgh, LB's sit for a few years. So I'd agree with you...get some vets in here.

Not only get some vets, he's got to do better and be more shrewd when he drafts linebackers.

"DQ...he just got used all game...out of position...backing up on his own...I have no idea what he is doing half the game. But at least I noticed him."

Heldawg...this is tough cause we AS A TEAM sucked so bad at tackling it would be almost insane to defend one - cause Everyone (I do give the 3 DLmen a sort of pass cause we don't depend on them in pursuit and for the most part they did their job) but everyone ELSE played like CRAPOLA

However - DQ had some good plays...they weren't open tackles but he made a lot where he came flying in and took out the feet inside a muck. You didn't notice it that well but I would be - hmmm who was that came flying in...and most times it was DQ when I would watch the replay.

He also made a play or two in the passing game, He's getting better in his coverages.

AD - I don't care if he made that pick...wow a ball got thrown right at him woo hoo!
And early on AD did explode into a hole to actually tackle a RB.

But I can't wait till he's gone. He is the barometer of this defense. Yes, a slower ILB can exist in the 3-4 Holmes of Steeler/Browns fame did who AD reminded me of physically. But AD plain old Sucks!

You know that movie that for some reason I've seen a thousand times Apocolypto - well AD should be named "ALMOST" He's just out of position a little to a lot to not make the plays.

DQ is exactly who he is...a Will ILB. We need that enforcer...If we had a Ray Lewis/ Urlacher type I guarantee you DQ would be mentioned as a PRO-BOWLER.

But he cannot take a game over. If we are going to run this 3-4...We got to commit to it. And that means if no top 10 studs (Willis, Mayo, Rivers) then we got to get A LOT OF TWEENERS and groom them for the ILB.

And honestly, I know this won't happen but if Willie McG stays another season. Man I hope he would take that ILB spot! But thats who we need to get. Who was it - VirgTech guy Tapp??? I know I wanted us to draft him for ILB. Guys like him...260-270 guys with OK speed but not good enough for edge rushers in the NFL but known for their TACKLING and Run Stuffing abilities at the DE spot but too light to play that role in the NFL. Those guys! They are available after the 2nd round every year!!! Make the commitment and draft them!

JMHO

Who was it - VirgTech guy Tapp??? I know I wanted us to draft him for ILB. Guys like him...260-270 guys with OK speed but not good enough for edge rushers in the NFL but known for their TACKLING and Run Stuffing abilities at the DE spot but too light to play that role in the NFL
BAM! ..Mourg and I kept putting out taking Tapp and Dumervil and putting one on the edge and one inside..
What was funny was that Phil projected BOTH to be inside guys..we had no inside hammer at the time so why wouldn't you take either?
They were both good pass rushers ..
Thats o.k..this is another draft where there are 5 inside guys who fit the mold we need..and 1 definate guy that can play both positions.

Do we only have 4 draft picks in the next draft?

1st? 2nd? 4th? and 6th?

Look in the IF I'M PHIL SAVAGE thread...

I will lose my lunch and probably destroy my televsion is we take Lauranitis.....we dont need another soft LB who cant shed blocks.

You want to know about a Buckeye..ask me..I not biased because I like OSU..

I'm not impressed with him..he makes some plays..but he's not a force IMO.
I d say he'd be a minor upgrade but I don't think he's a impact type of backer..
I don't see the explosiveness I want nor the speed.

The only thing I would like that Laurainitis would bring is an ability to blitz from ILB. Other than that, I'll pass.

A safe way of looking at things is that your NCAA OLB's will move to ILB in the NFL for a 3-4. Your OLB's will be undersized DE's from 4-3 teams. You want to avoid speed and finesse backers (Freeman, Laurainitis, anyone from Clemson), and look for guys who played over the TE in college (Aaron Curry). NCAA MLB's are always the wildcard...just depends on the style of defense they played.

I agree..this is where I think [Phil has to improve..
I don't think there's any chance he can get Manua..
I would snatch Curry in a heartbeat(Outside) then come back and grab Brinkley of South Carolina..he plays the SAM..and is 270..I watch him every time they're on TV..

Not replying to anyone in general, but after watching so many games with missed tackle, bad angles and defenders out of position. I have come to a conclusion, that if I was a coach, I would give the LBs some RB drills that would teach them to 'run down hill' and to build on the muscles in the lower legs. It seems like the Browns defenders are caught to many times (when the ball carrier gets pass Shaun Rogers) on thier heels. This shouldnt happen when you have 11 on 11. Take the opposing QB out of the equation and the 2 guys that are assigned to Rogers, then you have 8 on 10. If the Browns RBs would play like they are running downhill more, I feel it would be more beneficial to the defense.

Don't get too critical Attack...I think Laurenitis is every bit as good as Pulznulski was from Penn State - he's turning out to be a good pro.

Look what has to be looked at more than anything is can the kid make the proper transition to the NFL game. 90% of that will be SPEED! If Laurenitis is Fast and does have good fundementals...the rest will come. Just like whats his name from Iowa...LB I think in Wimbley's class that went to the Vikings. I thought that kid would turn out to be nothing. As it turns out - he has been able to transition into the NFL...primarily cause he had SPEED and good fundamentals. Size in that combo helps also.

But right now there aren't too many BIG ILB in colleges 230 is like the giant.

I still say we have to concentrate more on TWEENERS...but if there is a FAST ILB with good fundementals around 230...by all means go for it.

JMHO

I'll give that for Pulznulski ..man I did not like him in college..I don't think baby Animal is all that fast...just after watching him for several years, I'm just not that impressed..
I'd rather have Brinkley who I've seen explode into holes and drop down in coverage for a guy as big as he is..he sure wouldn't have to add any weight..

I don't know...not saying to take him...just stating the #1 priority for NFL transition...Speed and I'm not saying take a speed guy with no skills (see LEON) - I'm saying you got two...One like DQ or one like Mayo...I'll take Mayo, a slower guy with good skills early 2nd is fine enough.

As I said - I hope we target some DE tweeners down the road...3-5 rounds. First two rounds...of course the best STUD that falls to us. RB, LB, TWeener, Safety, RT - I don't care as long as he's a stud!

It's not that Posloszny or Laurainitis is a bad prospect, just not for this defense.

One thing I like about Laurainitis is the passion. He pushes himself to get better and he's a competitor. I think the passion matters.

Jasper is a beast...he has looked better in the past few weeks, but his knee worries me.

We need somone next to DQ that can get through blocks and be a physical presence against the run.

Laurainitis is a 4-3 backer...good sideline to sideline player...but isnt effective when he has to get by blocks...and he isnt a a great instinctive player. He relys on his speed quite abit.

I thought the USC game was really telling about him, when he couldnt rely on his speed..he was out of the game.

While hes fast, hes not that fast...and to make up for that, youd better have a nose for the ball. Not sure he has that...combined with his issues against blockers...this is not thep layer we need here if we stay with the 3-4.

I'll take Rey Maualuga, or get Jasper Brinkley in round 2...IMO Lurnanitis just isnt a worth our first.

Brownsfanz - I was just listing the Lb's that look like they will taken in the 1st round this year. I think Laurenitis is a mid to late 1st round pick but suspect someone will take him higher.

Attack - I'll check out that thread. Also any comment on Orakpo. He is listed a lot lighter than I thought. Looks like he cannot play DE at the current wt that I saw - 255#. He looks like a great conversion to a 3-4 OLB or he will have to add some wt and play DE in a 4-3.

Attack - I found your post in the other thread. I am copying it to this thread in case anyone else is interested. That thread is getting long and the longer it gets the harder it will be to find.

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I 'll bring it..wish they would leave a draft forum up year long..

My choices for ILB:

Maualuga- USC ..big problem is where other teams have him ranked..

Aaron Curry Vandy-he can play inside and outside and is a hard hitter.
Same problem as Mau..where will teams have him ranked?

Brinkley - South Carolina - 6' 2 270..thats right 270pds..I've always wanted a big backer in the middle that is more like a DT..
Should be there in the seond or third round.
Dude is mobile and can drop in coverage..

DE- Tyson Jackson LSU or
Fili Moala USC 6' 5 295

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1st round: Aaron Curry - OLB - Wake Forest
2nd round: Brandon Spikes - ILB - Florida or Jasper Brinkley - ILB South Carolina

I'm a happy man.

I'm also checking out the d-linemen Dorell Scott of Clemson to add on Day 2....

Spikes is the guy whose name I couldn't come up with. Thanks been bugging me that I couldn't remember. I hate to disappoint you but I don't think he will last until round 2.

The past 5 years... the average for ILB's in the first fround has been 0.6 (excluding last years draft). Link

I know Rey and Lauranitius (sp?) are first round talents... but based on history... Normally the best ranked ILB's are there in the 2nd..

I was wondering what you were doing there toad.

I agree that DQ is an ok Lb. He will never be great but he is what he is and will be fine with better talent around him. (aka Maualuga )

Wimbley needs work. A great athlete but dare I say the worst tackler on this team? Now that's saying something. I agree he has one move that worked real well as a rookie. Now teams know he has only that one move. They take it away and they take him away.

Regarding Smith : Same as DQ. Solid not spectacular. He is not the problem. We do need more dline depth.

Since we are on the dline let's throw in Corey Williams . I think he is doing a fine job especially when you consider that he will need off season surgery on that shoulder injury. I also think he is out of position. As a 4-3 DT I think he could be pretty awesome (not Shaun Rogers spectacular but pretty darn good). I think the problem is that he is too slow to be a 3-4 DE. Now I may not be accurate in this upcoming assessment. I was thinking about staring a thread to try to get some technical input but figure this is as good a place as any to ask. What I see with Williams is that he is too slow to be a really good 3-4 DE. I often see him in the right spot to stop a run play but he is too slow to get out there and cut off the edge. It gets frustrating to me (and I am sure to him too) that he is there to make the play and the Rb just takes it wider and out runs him. I don't know if that is his responsibility as a 3-4 end or not. If it is then I would tend to think our dline might be better with Williams at nose and Rogers at end.

Spikes is still not a lock to declare...a lot of the Florida UC's are waiting till after the bowl game. They have a real shot this year at the BCS again, but if not next year they are a favorite.

One of your better posts...all though it would have been better without the patting on the back about AD, heck I think most have been sour on AD just some were hoping for a miracle to happen... lol

One thing as I won't nitpick but I found to be most likely incorrect.

"If we switch to the 4-3, well, we allready have our ILB in Jackson."

Not that we are making a switch but if we go to a 4-3 DQ most certainly would be our WILL LB not the Mike.

JMHO

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heck I think most have been sour on AD just some were hoping for a miracle to happen... lol

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It's not that I was hoping for a miracle.. but in past years, while he wasn't great, he also wasn't our biggest weakness. I think it is a testimony to some of the players we've brought in that those we were once able to live with, now need upgraded... that is a sign of improvement.

Actually its your refusal to eat crow for instance your insistance of saying DQ is a Mike...not a you know he probably would be a Will...lol besides the obvious for all the observations that you made of him...Why he is a Will LB - RAC over n over describes him as that...a WILL LB. Neither here nor there cause we aren't going into a 4-3 D so why argue over it...

But the patting on back naming names means all others were WRONG on their assessments on AD.

I know for one when we had other alternatives I stuck by AD but never was satisfied with his play. I just find it sometimes wreckless to dump somebody that the coaching staff has yet to give up on and we don't have much to help.

Similar in the way I stick up with Wimbley although I have a little more hope for him than AD. But since the Staff/FO has confirmed our fears by re-negotiating his contract and making this his Show ME season - then I see no hope in his future.

I've been saying as much for 16 games or so. If you go by your pat on the back.

Then Peen is the most football intelligent poster on this board.

Its the little things you take and run with it...DQ is a Mike vs a Will. We'll go through this till we are blue in the face....lol But I think its funny when you say you eat crow...lol I've seen you disappear for like ever...but not eat crow...If so just not as often as its needed

Even the words you use are condescending as if you are right. "It's possible Jackson could be moved"
Moved...from the MIKE like he's there already If anything he's playing WILL right now as it is - he would have to be MOVED from Will.

But you are good and because you are smart that is what irks me sometimes cause you know full well HOW you say things and WHY. Don't get me wrong.

If I got to form a debate team and we challenge all other Boards...I'm making sure you're on my side