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Then Peen is the most football intelligent poster on this board.
What's your problem??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Dawg Talker
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Moving to a 4-3 would be a huge overhaul of our defense that could take years.
If Wimbley could move to a 4-3 DE, contribute and be solid. Then I dont think it would take that long to make the switch. Either way, the Browns need 2 new LBs next year. I think it would be easier to replace 2 LBs in a 4-3 rather then a 3-4. Most of the Browns current d-line has the experiance to make the switch back to a 4-3 and it would be harder to put double teams on Shaun Rogers. Because now the Browns dont use anyone to take pressure off of Rogers. Hes pretty much out there making plays on his own, even with 2 blockers on him.
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Dawg Talker
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What's your problem??
The same thing that's been wrong with this board almost since it's inception. If you're not part of the "club", your opinion isn't valued. You're just white noise. C'mon, Peen, you know that.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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LOL....there are a few who seem to think football knowledge is something important....and the funny thing....well....nevermind
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Dawg Talker
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Oh, go ahead, say it......You'll feel so much better....... 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Legend
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Chaun Thompson = Kevin Bentley
Both can make a 55 man roster, but other than that... They are sub par...
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Hall of Famer
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Neither here nor there cause we aren't going into a 4-3 D so why argue over it...
Since Savage mentioned he could be looking at making a switch, I think it's worthwhile to discuss.  Afterall, it won't be up to RAC, since he won't be with the organization any longer. 
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But the patting on back naming names means all others were WRONG on their assessments on AD.
Only those that thought he was really good when he really wasn't. Yes.
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I know for one when we had other alternatives I stuck by AD but never was satisfied with his play.
Then you shouldn't be feeling defensive, should you.
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I just find it sometimes wreckless to dump somebody that the coaching staff has yet to give up on and we don't have much to help.
While it would be wreckless to do just that, it's your opinion that we don't have someone just as good. It's also your opinion that the coaching staff has yet to give up on him.
It seems to me that as iffy as Leon Williams has been, he's been taking playing time from Davis. Furthermore, the coaching staff doesn't make personnel decisions in the offseason. That responsibility falls on Savage. To that end, Savage gave Davis a "take a paycut or GET cut" ultimatum. Quite clearly, the organization is giving up on Davis, and they are the one's who write the contracts and cut the checks.
Remember, Davis is a free agent at year's end. Think they aren't giving up on him? Sure looks that way to me.
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Similar in the way I stick up with Wimbley although I have a little more hope for him than AD.
As do I. However, "sticking up" for a player means...........what exactly? You're championing his cause? To what end? If a player isn't playing well and is trending towards even worse play, he needs to go. There's nothing to stick up for. You're not his big brother and he doesn't need you protecting him  If you "stick up" for Wimbley because you retain hope that he can turn the corner (yes....pun intended  ) that's fine, but meaningless when it comes to reality. If you want to say you hope a player can become something, good, we get it. That's just the optimist in you talking. I get it, just as you should get the realist in me says the odds are unlikely, but that we're stuck with him one way or another because we have so many other holes.
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But since the Staff/FO has confirmed our fears by re-negotiating his contract and making this his Show ME season - then I see no hope in his future.
I've been saying as much for 16 games or so. If you go by your pat on the back.
See? There's nothing inheritently evil about patting yourself on the back  It's certainly not the first time you've done it, nor will it be the last
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Its the little things you take and run with it...
No, Eo, more precisely, it's the little things I take and run with which you don't like or agree with that's the stickin' point here. That's what these forums are for. We're not likely to change anyone's mind about much of anything. You won't change mine, I won't change yours, Diam won't change 'Peen's, and Michelle won't change Jules' ( ). The real kicker here is that you don't like what I run with, so it sticks under your skin and causes this that we have going here.
You said I made a good post, then decided to take exception to my self-congratulation. Then you didn't agree with my opinion on where Jackson may possible play if we were to change defenses, and got a little testy, when a simple disagreement would have sufficed. So, as a result, we sit here and banter in this fashion.
Hey, we all know you like it, otherwise you wouldn't do it I embrace my sarcastic and self-congratulatory nature instead of denying that it exists. You should try it sometime *L*
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But I think its funny when you say you eat crow...lol I've seen you disappear for like ever...but not eat crow...If so just not as often as its needed
I'm not going to insert all the smiley's. It's enough that we both know they are there
The last real thing I've been wrong about was Anderson, but not specifically the stuff as it pertains to Quinn. Sure, I thought they'd wait one more week before benching him, and even the national media thought the timing was screwy. No, I was emphatic that Anderson was a complete bum before we cut Frye loose, then manned up when he went on that tear last year. Of course I DID also say that his "worm would turn" at some point, and unfortunately for us Browns fans, it did in the last month of the year. However, that didn't mean I wasn't wrong about him being a complete bum. He's going to net us a draft pick or player when we picked him up off the waiver-wire for nothing. I believe I was quite adamant with how many times I said I was wrong. In fact, I recall putting a picture of someone eating crow as my sig
Other than Anderson, we can talk about the one's I got wrong versus the one's I got right if you REALLY want to go there Frye, Davis, Thompson, Couch, William Green being a bum, the acquisition of Droughns, Lewis NOT being washed up in Baltimore, our debate about Shaffer going to right tackle instead of right guard, my statements that Edwards was only worthwhile when he was in the flow of an offense, my desire a couple of years ago to acquire Shaun Rogers, my staunch belief that we'd take Thomas over Quinn......the list goes on and on. No, I'm not always right. Unfortunately for you, I'm wrong far less often than most, which means there's little crow for me to eat Shoot, didn't we just have a discussion about the zone-blocking scheme that Lewis was in during his best days in Baltimore? I proved I knew what I was talking about. That isn't a slap, just an example 
When I'm wrong, I take my lumps. Problem is, I'm not very often wrong *L* I'm just a little more abbrasive than others, but hey, let's be honest, it's fun hating someone from time to time, and in that role, I give the board plenty of relief in that regard, hehehe. I'm willing to take it in the sense of fun. You should try it sometime
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Even the words you use are condescending as if you are right. "It's possible Jackson could be moved"
That's actually just a personal malfunction on your part, born from some sense or type of paranoia which baffles me.  I'm clearly speaking from the perspective of a possible switch from the 3-4 to the 4-3, in which case Jackson would no longer be the MLB, but instead moved to WLB. It's that very paranoia that causes you to get into trouble with other posters. I have no answer for that one.
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But you are good and because you are smart that is what irks me sometimes cause you know full well HOW you say things and WHY. Don't get me wrong.
Sometimes I do say things that don't come out as I intend. We all do. Sometimes I hide meanings within my words. Sometimes I don't. You shouldn't always see hidden meaning in all the things I say. If I'm trying to be snarky, odds are I'm going to be pretty transparent about it
However, setting all that aside, if you think Jackson would become the WLB, that's fine. If RAC has said it, then maybe that's how he views Jackson. That's also fine. However, that isn't me. I view Jackson as a MLB if we were to switch to the 4-3. Still, I can say that if we made the case he should play OLB, I'd be able to see the logic in it. That's identical to our debates about Shaffer. You said he's most likely a guard, while I said he was most likely our RT, but I also remember telling you that if he were moved to guard, I could see the logic behind it. Same thing.
Eo, sometimes you're a little too sensitive I don't know if it's because you take yourself too seriously, or if you feel as though by disagreeing with you it's somehow a slight, but sometimes, you just get on people for no good reason *L* See, I could understand it if I make a statement which is formed from my opinion, then you replied by saying it's rediculous, then laid out your reasonings. I'd debate it out. However, when it comes to a comment such as yours that chastised me for patting myself on the back, when it's something you've done just as much (well, not just as much, because you aren't as right as often as I am  ) then keep on by saying I talked in a condecending manner to you when I didn't........it's all a little much to take.
Just relax buddy. It's just football. Have fun with it.
So, here's something to right down: I think RAC will be fired at seasons end. I've been emphatic about it. I don't think we'll re-sign Davis. I'm emphatic about that. Those are two things I've given you that you can throw back in my face at year's end, but ONLY if you promise to just have fun with it
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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I finally give you a compliment...and you want to fight...lol
According to Toad - being the first out there in claiming a player a bust makes him more football intelligent. And in the history of you posting I don't think there is anyone claiming "Bust" earlier than you have - its a character of your posting. No dissing on you being right or wrong (unfortunately you've been right which means we've had nothing but bust after bust) but not from this new regime and the players brought in.
But by the standard that Toad set up...You would be the most football intelligent poster on the board. Cause none call them sooner than you have.
Sorry I don't have a problem...just making an observation.
 relax.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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"While it would be wreckless to do just that, it's your opinion that we don't have someone just as good. It's also your opinion that the coaching staff has yet to give up on him."
Just a note I believe you have misinterpreted what I have posted...for almost mid-season in 07 I have totally given up on AD. Actually going on record fessing up with VERS in another world - where he confessed that he really hates BE...and I fessed up that I really hate AD.
But the fact that we re-did his contract taking the cap hit and this being his last year instead of 2-3 more is sort of proof the Organization has given up on him...most definitely.
The fact that we made Beau Bell our first pick this year in the draft...and moved up to get him is sort of proof the Org has given up on him.
The fact that Bell got injured and not known for his classroom prowess - has kept AD on the field cause surely his play hasn't.
AD can't get out of town soon enough for me.
As for analyzing me...relax. Its just Alpha Dawg syndrome and guess what you got it as bad as me...lol
CrazyOtto....yeah there's a club, Its called Add football Intelligent conversation in this forum as in the "PURE FOOTBALL" forum. And yeah by your own choice you have not even applied  The club is easy to join...just POST n Contribute with actual FOOTBALL...not in any advanced level...just common sense is good enough? You've chosen to utilize it as a "CHAT ROOM" and put in your one liner and insult those who contribute. Join the Club 
Leagalized...if there is an observation about Wimbley right now that he's just too light in the butt for his OLB duties - I really don't think he's a candidate for a bona-fide 4-3 DE...maybe a pass rush specialist but Freeney he isn't.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Legend
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Quote:
relax.
I am.....all is good here.
I see it like this, you you more a X's and O's guy and I am a talent evaluator. 
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Legend
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It kills me that we've had as many busts as we have had here...since 99, so you can understand how whenever you post I cringe and dislike your early contribution. I still have hope that this crop is good enough to stay.
BE, Pool, Wimbley, DQ, Thomas, BQ and EW - so far as a group they seem to be ok and on track to becoming studs. Maybe with Wimbley being the most disappointing. BE up n downs - BQ just starting, EW n Pool look to have a future. JoeT a stud - sorry any rookie making the Pro-Bowl has to be. DQ I think the most solid outside of JoeT...so there is hope.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I gotta disagree .... no way DQ is a MLber if we switch to a 4 - 3 ... NO WAY in hell for two simple reasons ... well OK .. make it 3 or 4 ... and also make it he wouldn't be any better at it than Dra was .... OK .. well maybe slightly better .... but he would be a BELOW AVERAGE MLber just like Dra was ... is that clear now????? ... *L* ... reasons he would be inaffective .... and in no particular order ... 1. he never stops RB's in there tracks .. they always either fall forward for another 2 yards or push him back 2 or 3 yards from the point of initial contact and then fall foward for an additional 4 or 5 yards .. 2. Very poor reader of plays ..... he has improved on this one this year but he is still not good at it ... he does the same thing Dra does and just takes himself out of plays by not being able to read a play ... he gets himself behind the pile and just gets driven backwords off the play as the pile continues to move back ... when he first got here all i heard about was his instincts ... and I got right on board sight unseen .. then last year when Vers came up we watched him .. and he showed NO INSINCTS what so ever ... this year he has shown some instincts but no wheres near what he needs to ... 3. Can't shed a block to save his life ... U said hes better than Dra .. well WIPPIE DOO .... and I agree he is SLIGHTLY better at it than Dra ... and slightly better than haveing ZERO ABILITY to do it is not very good .. U need to be way better at it ... 4. he is not a very good tackler .... he isn't a bad tackler but he is not good at it either ... your MLB needs to be a VERY GOOD TACKLER ... and that is not DQ ... those are 4 solid/sound football reasons as to why he will not be a very good MLBer .. and as we all know I am wrong even less than U are so there really is no need to debate here ... tabber ... ask Toad how his convo with Held went on the Shaff contract #'s ... I believe the Toad man turned aa invisible as our LBers so often do ...... ... PS. Why do u gotta stick me with Peenie .. can't U give me a wall or a brick ... there comprable in football knowledge but at least I would not have to listen to there innane dribble while I'm trying to change there minds ... 
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so you can understand how whenever you post I cringe and dislike your early contribution.
No, I don't understand....unless you just don't like to hear about guys flopping.
Yes...we have some guys who still have hope.
I won't go in to Wimbley, you know how that is going to turn out.....since it already has.
Edwards...he was a good pick. I can't explain the drops this year either...but I don't think it is the norm....he was a good pick.
Jackson...he was a good pick. He isn't a anchor type backer....but put some other good players around him and he gets better.....Thomas...no need to discuss that...he is a anchor player...Quinn...so far he looks good, and in my quick, seven snaps evaluation....he has it....reminds me of Garcia in his style....he may never be the leagues best, but he is more than good enough to win with......but as with any qb....it takes a while to get a final evaluation.....but I don't see him flopping unless it is with us....you know, the expectation thing...if he doesn't do it here, he is a good enough QB he will start for somebody...as long as there are 32 teams in the league, he will remain in that top 32-34....and that isn't to say he won't be much better than that.....from what i have seen, his low end is going to be maybe around 20-25...which is good enough as far as I am concerned...you aren't going to have a top 5 qb that often...back in the days of Frank Ryan...he wasn't a elite qb...what were there....12 teams in those days....he was maybe 6-7....middle of the road.
Pool....just lukewarm with him.....I don't think it would be too hard to replace him. Both him and Jones are pretty average IMO...I wouldn't cut them until I got something better, but I wouldn't go out of my way to sign them to big deals either.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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tabber ... ask Toad how his convo with Held went on the Shaff contract #'s ... I believe the Toad man turned aa invisible as our LBers so often do ......
Hardy har har You're either joking, or you missed how that really went down. Hel was going by total reported contract value, not actual cap dollars, in a conversation where we were debating if Shaffer was being paid too much money to play right tackle. You know the difference.
Eo, ok if I mis-interpreted what you said, but shenanigans if I didn't *L*.
To both of you, it's just my opinion that I'd move Jackson to ILB if we changed schemes. Nowhere did I say he was a great player, but I happen to feel that's a more natural position for him, and where he'd be the most effective. A Jonathan Vilma-type guy who struggles in the 3-4 because of his size.
Time will tell.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I don't care if we go to a 43 ..I want every freaking LB changed..there I said it..don't care who agrees or tries to shoot it down..THEY ALL NEED TO GO...I'm sick of what I see..none of them including Jackson can come up and fill a hole consistantly, or pressure the QB..which is what LB's in a 34 are supposed to do.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/24/08 10:38 AM.
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I don't disagree with you......it is a pretty poor assortment of players we have there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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DANG..if they just would peer into this board..they'd have a excellent draft day plan  Thats about all the humor I have in me right now.
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It does make you wonder where some of these players come from....why some are passed to select who we select??
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Well when I look at the explanation of WHY the player was selected..it seems the GM is out thinking himself..
Case in point..DQ..he was the second rated ILB...played a similar spot at Maryland..BUT..lightweight..and you had no big run stuffers upfront and no stud next to him..so why move up?
First even though he asked Rac what he wanted and Rac said a pass rusher..he coulda still taken Ngata and given him a pass rusher later..Dumervil..
Gerris Wilkenson who is now starting for the Giants at the Will spot was there in the third round round..but thats where he grabbed Wilson to replace JJ..
I never like to move up..I think in most cases you can move down down or stay pat and get somebody you need.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/24/08 11:26 AM.
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I agree man...I don't like moving up either.....unless you are a well established team and you see one guy who you feel is the key in that draft of putting you over whatever hump you are trying to get around.
In our case..we have humps all over the place and it is impossible to say this is the thing.....just let the draft come to you. If you can't get somebody at a position you wanted to improve, someone else at another position will be there.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Every time you move up it puts pressure on the decision to be right. When you miss on those you miss twice...at least.
When you let the draft come to you or you move down...the decision, while still of import, is more manageable when you're wrong.
Which is the case many, many times for the best of GMs.
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If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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All Pro
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1st round: Aaron Curry - OLB - Wake Forest
2nd round: Brandon Spikes - ILB - Florida or Jasper Brinkley - ILB South Carolina
I'm a happy man.
I'm also checking out the d-linemen Dorell Scott of Clemson to add on Day 2....
Q- alabama has a good "D" this yr but i dont hear anybody talk about the LB's there. What's up with that?
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Legend
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They are playing great team football right now... They are clicking on all cylinders.... You can't stop teams that click like they are.
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