DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Frye, Head to Head with opposing QB's

Sure Frye needs more time as a starter. Just enough time to get a new QB use to the system and not get beat on too bad their first year in the league.

To tell the truth....I think that's the reason we're starting a 3rd round, second year QB right now. A local boy, living out a dream and taking a beating for the team keeps the fans in their seats while the team is rebuilding. When the team is ready to make a playoff run, we'll have a different QB. Until more pieces are in place on the Browns, Savage and Crennel will let Frye continue to live his dream....

Yeah, that's what the Browns are doing. <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]"I'll say again, all I want to see is progress as a passer. Right now, his rating is exactly one point higher than last season, hehehe."

[color:"orange"]1. Passer Rating is not the best evaluation to see if he is progressing...not when we have the opportunity to actually see him play. He is actually progressing nicely enough for us not to panic as a need...even you state this unless I'm mistaken in my draft thread.

2. I wish you would be more accurate. There are many who view you as highly credible...unfortunately that puts a burden on you to actually be accurate...
[color:"red"]"Right now, his rating is exactly one point higher than last season, hehehe."

[color:"orange"]Just to be Factual:
2005 [color:"white"]
Charlie Frye 165 98 1002 59.4 6.1 4 2.4 6 3.6 45 21/129 69.8

[color:"orange"]2006 [color:"white"]
Charlie Frye CLE 1959 316 198 9 12 75 73.8

[color:"orange"]That would be 69.8 rating in 05 and a 73.8 rating in 06 - I make that to be a 4point increase not 1 as stated by you as a fact.

As irrelevant a stat as I think it - still no reason not to be accurate about it.

JMHO <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Better recheck your facts:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/552508

2005 Cleveland Browns 7 5 164 98 59.8 1002 6.11 45 4 5 22/135 12 1 [color:"orange"]72.8[/color][color:"white"]

2006 Cleveland Browns 10 10 316 198 62.7 1959 6.20 75 9 12 39/220 19 5 [color:"orange"]73.8[/color][color:"white"]


Seriously, why did you even go there? See what you made me do? <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />[/color]

[color:"white"]Having been forced to go there, I guess I'll again say that I'm seeing strides, even though they are baby steps.

I've pasted it all over the board. I'm not going to go through it all yet again. [/color]

There now.... Isn't sarcasm much more fun than name calling.... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]I just did the first half write up of the Falcons game, and in the middle, I realized what happened with your stats, or to be more accurate, I think I know what happened to them.

Your stats are just for his starts. I'd bet on it. The ones I pulled from NFL.com include every snap he's taken.

Both are accurate, but mine's complete <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

*Hands Toad some used toilet paper to post beside those QB ratings* <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]*uses the paper.......and politely gives it back to GM* <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"orange"]see now...if you noticed I didn't want to make a big stink about it and make people think I'm discrediting you...while that is your purpose...why the need for the <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> as if to call me an idiot. did you see the <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> from me as to discredit you and call you an idiot <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Now wipe that smug smile off you face

again:
[color:"white"]Charlie Frye 165 98 1002 59.4 6.1 4 2.4 6 3.6 45 21/129 69.8
[color:"orange"]that is a 69.8 - of which I did not make up. and here is the link:
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/CLE/2005/regular

You are so full of yourself and then you wonder why I have little respect left for you <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> You can't even apologize to me for your misdeeds but lay blame on others <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I was trying to play nice. Just get the facts straight! but I know your tadpoles will now torch me and tell me how I now have little respect from them cause I can't play nice. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

You were not supposed to blow your nose in it <img src="/images/graemlins/saywhat.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> The stats you two linked to don't match up <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Who said anything about the nose <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/color]

[color:"orange"]Funny thing is both stats are from the same basic source NFL. com

I went through the Browns team stat source and when you click it for 2005 it comes to this page noted in my link.

basically all the stats are the same. My link shows one more attempt and coincidentally one more INT (6) compared with (5) which probably is where the QB rating is different. Now what happened which is it? Did CF have 5 or 6 INTs and why the discrepency?

I don't know and I don't care. Toad was using QB rating as his motem apparendi to show that CF has shown no improvement <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

When all you have to do is look at CF play from 05 to 06 and see the progress.

The debate shouldn't really be is he progressing or not...cause I don't even think thats debateable honestly. It should be is his Progress good enough.

But if one is using stats as a tool it should be accurate. But the stats whatever they are aren't necessary for my eyes to tell me he is progressing.

JMHO

Which is why I brought up the used toilet paper comment <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The QB rating don't tell the whole story. They don't even tell half the story. He brought up the point that QB ratings were the best tool to use, and I disagreed and said the best tool to use was your own eyes. Watch the game, tape it and watch it over again in slow mo. where you can see if Charlie is holding the ball to long, how his footwork is, if he looks off the D, or locks in on his reciever, if he forces the ball in, or misses a wide open reciever, if he has time to throw or is forced to get rid of the ball because of bad O-line play. IMO the only way to learn and judge is to study the game film <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]"tape it and watch it over again in slow mo. where you can see if Charlie is holding the ball to long"

[color:"orange"]Got news for you if you watch it over again in SLOOOOO MOOOOO
of course Charlie will be holding the ball toooooo Looong <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

sorry couldn't resist. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes but the O-line gives him plenty of time to throw the damn ball <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"]Despite it all, you can go through and read where I've said he's taken baby steps.

I ignored this for a few posts, but I feel forced to say that you took a joking comment and twisted into "Toad says Chuck isn't developing." You're wrong. Go read it again. I wanted to leave it alone but you wouldn't let it go.

[color:"white"]
That'll teach ya to trust just one source *L* You could have gone about it a different way instead of getting up on your high horse.

If you want things to calm down and stop being so tense between you and I, take the tone you USED to take. The way you used to handle that was to say something like "are you sure those stats are correct? Here's a link showing something different." The problem was that you took a comment the wrong way, and let fly with the "some posters believe you, so you need to be accurate when stating facts." Well, that backfired because you took a comment the wrong way and because you went at me as a father chiding his kid <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Now you're backpedaling when you shouldn't have had to.

I've said Frye is taking baby steps as a passer. It's posted all over this board and even in this thread. Go read it and be done with this.[/color]

[color:"white"] Yes but the O-line gives him plenty of time to throw the damn ball [/color]

i've always thought that he had time to find a receiver and have been blasted for saying that. watching other games and QB's, i notice all of the time that receivers have a CB on their elbow all of the time. the other QB's though just happen to place the ball where only the receiver can get it. the receiver doesn't need to be WIDE open for the QB to get them the ball. i just don't think charlies brain has adapted to nfl speed yet, and by not ever watching him in college, i often wonder if he EVER had it.

[color:"red"]""Toad says Chuck isn't developing." You're wrong. Go read it again."

[color:"orange"]My quotes are out there for you to quote...why must you LIE and make up your own quotes about what I say...and disgustingly put quotation marks around it <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> That is very low class <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What I said btw is that you shouldn't judge progress with the stat of QB rating but use your eyes instead.

[color:"red"]"That'll teach ya to trust just one source *L* You could have gone about it a different way instead of getting up on your high horse."

[color:"orange"]Another typical LOW CLASS response from you that unfortunately I'm starting to expect from you. Lay blame on me...MY HIGH HORSE...yet it was you that claimed were ERROR FREE and put a <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> to insinuate that I had no CREDIBILITY.

But in a LOW CLASS format your Motive is to place blame on the other...never taking any blame yourself. I know the TADPOLES will come down on me for actually being unreasonable <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> AS if I did anything wrong except wish that we use accurate STATs when claiming facts.

And the way you flim flam about how you never said he wasn't progressing is equally disgusting as well. Just what did you mean to say when you stated his QB rating was only 1 point different from 05 <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"]"take the tone you USED to take."
[color:"orange"]
I know how dare I take a "TONE" against you...why, I must Bow to you...lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Its never you Toad...its always somebody elses fault <img src="/images/graemlins/rolleyes1.gif" alt="" />

You don't get it. I don't have any respect for you whatsoever...your ill attempt to apologize and lay all the blame on Vers for your discretions didn't solve one thing.
I don't stay mad as mentioned more than a day or so. But I lost respect for you..and you coming back now and saying You lost respect for me well don't count cause I said it first... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> lol <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You LIE, you mis quote STATS you lay blame on all others but yourself.

How dare make up a quote that I said and put quotation marks around it. How low is that!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/plthumbsdown.gif" alt="" />

I have watched 2 Dallas games in the past week, and one thing that really impresses me about Tony Romo is that he makes FAST decisions with the ball. Parcells had him throwing off a one step drop at times. He's been pressured on 3-5 step drops ... but deals nicely with a lone free rusher most of the time, and evades and throws very nicely. He seems aware of where he is in the pocket, and where the rush is coming from, and still manages to keep his eyes downfield.

Many times in the NFL, the QB only gets a couple of seconds before he has to help himself by moving in the pocket or making a quick throw. Charlie does move ..... but often takes his eyes off the field when doing so.

I also heard something during the Dallas/Bucs game that reminded me of something I have seen all too often in Browns games. The Cowboys weren't worried about Gradkowski beating them, so they played 8 in the box and took their chances with the downfield receivers. Looks a lot like recent Browns games to me.

[color:"white"]*shrug* You and Vers can buy each other beers and curse my name *L* [/color]

[color:"orange"]yeah its all about you <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You are so full of yourself its pathetic. The fact Vers n I both have no respect for you should put up some flags...but no its can't be you right?

[color:"white"]Are you done yet? Get it all out of your system so the board doesn't have to see this anymore.....[/color]

[color:"red"]"Are you done yet? Get it all out of your system so the board doesn't have to see this anymore....."

[color:"orange"] <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Toad crap don't stink <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

would it be possible for you two to iron this out on PM's? this is getting old and very unlike both of you.

ytown.......

[color:"white"] one thing that really impresses me about Tony Romo is that he makes FAST decisions with the ball. [/color]

the only way we see that in cleveland is if dallas comes here to play. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] Parcells had him throwing off a one step drop at times. [/color]

chuck can do that if the corner plays 5 yds off of the receiver. i THINK.

[color:"white"] Charlie does move ..... but often takes his eyes off the field when doing so.
[/color]

you can also tell who the primary receiver is. he'll scan the field, but his eyes keep going back to the same receiver, then he locks on with those singletary eyes. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

[color:"white"] The Cowboys weren't worried about Gradkowski beating them, so they played 8 in the box and took their chances with the downfield receivers. Looks a lot like recent Browns games to me.

[/color]

it sure does. they know he can't make quick decisions, and the receiver needs to be three steps ahead of his cover man. i know we can game plan for incompetence. some call it weakness, but this is far bigger than that. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
i know the coaches see his problems and work on it during the week. for some reason he just isn't getting the thinking part down. i really think that his mobility has hindered the skill between his ears. i swear i hope he becomes the next otto. but i really have my doubts about him all together. it's getting to the point that i don't even want him as a backup.

<img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> When did you learn to count to three <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />