DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Chud - What's Happened?

I'm curious what everyone thinks here. Last year, this guy took us to a place we haven't been in a long time ... near the top of the NFL in offense. He was lauded for being a genius. His work ethic and the hours he puts in are well documented. I believe K2 called him the smartest coach he's ever known.

So we have a terrible execution problem this year ... we have players not playing to their abilities ... that's not Chud's fault ...but I think there is more to it. I was shaking my head in disbelief today at the third down play that resulted in Quinn's second INT when I saw them empty the backfield ... especially after Lewis was having his best game of the year and completely gashing the Texans D.

So what has gone wrong between last year and this year ... or was Chud possibly a beneficiary of playing weaker teams last year ... what is it ... how could we have fallen off so far ... how could Chud seem to turn to Mud in less than a year?

What are everyone's thoughts?

I look to the game he called against the Giants, and wonder why he hasn't called a game like that since.

The difference is teams have a year's worth of film to study his tendencies.

I think he's gotten too pass happy this year and is predictable on when he wants to run. If a 1st down pass fails, you can bet he's going to call a run play.

Just an example.

I dunno if Chud was ever that great last year, his play calling has never been crisp. He gets in one ditch or the other it, sometimes we are way to technical and chessy, just call what works. Other times, and most of the time, our offense is predictable and manilla.

Last year we played a plethora of bad defenses, so we could just beat them off talent and not coaching. That only goes so far in this league.

Plus last year teams had limited film on Chuds system and what his favorite plays were...the league no has that, Chud cant seem to do anything different. You cant do anthing in this league if the other team knows what your gonna do!

I still hold out that what happened was everyone saw this:

Chud > Mo

Chud = Good Offensive Coordinator

Much like most fans thought:

DA > CF

DA = Brett Favre

We are so used to seeing awful, horrific sad playing and coaching, mediocre looks good.

The different QB definitely plays a role. Still, he can call more packages utilizing Cribbs and Harrison, and certainly be more creative with the running game. My concerns with the passing game lean far more heavily towards the "will he catch it" side as opposed to the "can he make the throw" side.

1st place I'd look is at the #2 WR spot.

Last year we had JJ. He owned 3rd down. He contributed perfectly to the ego duo of Winslow and Edwards.

This year we have no #2. (at least not one who has stepped up) There is no one beating single coverages against the blitz. There is no one working the seams on 3rd down. There is a glaring lack of a receiver who catches every damn ball thrown his way.

Stallworth, for all of his superior speed, hasn't come anywhere close to JJ.

But, you say, it's only one part. Leave a spark plug out of your car's engine and see how well it performs.

My oh MY you're a sensitive one

I'll save my speech about what I used to do regarding the NFL, simply because everyone around here has heard it enough. If you've been a lurker on the boards for years, you'd know. I'll simply satisfy myself by taking perverse pleasure in watching you go all Banty-rooster here.

Now, having said that, I'm in a good mood tonight, having just finished a work project. As a result, I've decided to be nice to you for the moment

Simply put, you've missed the point. The plays which best fit Quinn aren't the one's that best fit Anderson, and vice-versa. If you choose not to believe that Quinn's play-selections are geared towards a shorter field, such is your perogative. If you choose not to believe that Anderson gives Chud more options right now on deeper routes, that's also your perogative. Said opinion is not an advocation for Anderson, but rather a simple observation. You're sensitivity towards Quinn is bordering on disturbing

If you choose not to agree with my opinions, such is your right. Unfortunately, you'd be wrong

All this isn't to say Quinn won't develop the ability to go further downfield, but at this point in time, well, he's young, he's struggling, and he hit a wall today. All of that is to be expected. He's got some accuracy issues that need to be worked out. I don't see him every day in practice, „Õ I can't say if it's mechanical or if it's simply a case of needing more reps as the starter. That doesn't preclude me from seeing the obvious.

I'm sorry said opinion doesn't agree with you

Here's a little friendly advice: You really need to check yourself. You've allready honked-off the mod's and you've attempted to get under my skin. Neither effort will have a happy ending, hehe. There are a select group of folks on here who've proven they really know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, your posts have given everyone the opposite effect. Simply put, you're trying WAY too damned hard *L* You aren't the first one to come charging on this forum, barking up my tree. None of them are around anymore, and for good reason . Until you're opinions are proven to have some merit, all you're really doing is diggin' a hole from which you won't be able to escape, hehe. Hard-heads like Diam, Eo, and CoachB have earned the right to chirp with/at me because of their knowledge (my apologies to the other 50 of you. I'd name names, but you know who you are ). We get in some good tiff's that are both informative and entertaining They remain because they've proven they know what they are talking about, even if we don't agree on the subject matter.

You aren't there yet. All you've done is proclaim insider info that ended up being a thick dud. It makes you look rather silly as you go on the offensive armed with misinformation, and the knowledgeable around here don't take kindly to that *L*

*shrug* The ball is in your court. Do with it what you will, but take heed of your actions. At this rate, your time on this forum is very short.........

Chud could call perfect plays every down, but if players dont block, catch & run it dosent matter., and that is what is happening, Chud calls a play designed for who....BE drops the ball, cant call his plays, JJ is hurt there goes plays designed for him, Stallworth is hurt again there goes those plays, Jamal well everybody is now looking at him, KW well he's hurt or whinning and if BE is dropping passes that means KW is covered.

Chud's not the problem, he's calling the same plays as last year and trying to pull this out this year, whats changed are
1. Attitudes of our PRO_BOWLERS
2. Desire

j/c

It just all seems like a perfect storm. I think that Chud's playcalling has left a lot to be desired. Last year, it seemed like it was so aggressive. This year, it seems like it's "boy, I hope we don't turn it over before we punt."

You combine that with our offense just plain underproducing (understatement of the year), and you have what we have now.

Is it all Chud's fault? Nothing is ever just ONE person's fault in this game. But he certainly has his healthy share of the pie.

Now that doesn't excuse Chud for giving Lewis the ball only 10 freakin' times against a sad run defense

This is something that continues to bother me..the playcalling..all year long Lewis has gotten very few carries ..why?
Are they trying to phase him out???
Are they trying to be too cute??
Week in and week out Rac says we need to give him the ball more..and week in and week out he gets less than 20 carries..
Yesterday 10 carries 58 yards..anyone see what could have happened had he got 20-25 carries?
WHAT THE heck is Chud doing calling nothing but pass plays in situations where we can run?
I swear it looks like he's calling plays against himself..

Much of our struggling on that side of the ball is Chud. How much of the "script" is Chud's and what the non-visionary RAC requires of the OC and the DC in the way of what is called (loosely, folks) a "gameplan" is something I want to know. Seems that no matter what coaches have hired, fired, released, replaced, promoted, I still see the same crappy ineffective "strategy" and "Scheme" in place; it does not change, it does not adjust (or only mutates in panic as we are down in the 4th qtr.
I am not going to over-romanticize last year on Chud's behalf. It is what it was: a better season with some success and horribly failed ending as we could not score enough points when we had to multiple times with the season on the line. He did NOT do some things at all that successful teams do, and did not do things often enough in hindsight. But he did go after people. And we won against teams we should have beaten.
Not happening. The Giants game showed where we should be, what we are capable of. We should set the bar there weekly. Chud has called the wrong game for Anderson, and it is hoppible judgment IMO. He can't throw short well, and he can't throw sideways well, has about no sense of touch. He can throw deep, he can win in spite of himself and he is only slightly more mobile than the gravel at the end of my drive. So we put him under center and try to pass laterally, using too few screens, predictable runs (few 100 yarders), run almost exclusively inside, that poorly, and expect to fool people. Draws? Center screens? Swing to JL? Nope, though it might keep D honest. We do not challenge deep; BE is horrible. Stallworth is part time at best and doesn't run hard or well. But we need to challenge deep. IMO, Chud didnt call same kind of game for BQ that he did for DA. That sucks. BQ was kept on a leash.
I believe RAC is the handcuff. Could care less whether he is liked or popular. They will not play any harder or better than this. BE's focus is only on forgetting last game, putting miserable performance behind himself. Then he stinks it up worse. I am glad Chud went to him a bunch back to back and often though the string of drops hurt us. SHws where his head is buried. You can't ignore boils; they need lanced or cut out. We had enough talent to beat the Giants, SB champs. And we insist at a coaching level that what guarantees losses against people we need to beat, division and upper third of NFL will be repeated. We are being coached out of nothing that I see week to week. Blitz improved? Tackle better? Coverage improved? Man to man better (improves zone too). I quit. We see it. Expect more of the same while RAC is allowed to mishandle it. Bench BE now.

The offense has looked equally sporadic under Quinn as well as Anderson.. the defense has looked somewhere between soft and awful....

My opinion is this team (offense and defense) has no confidence, they have no "swagger".. (If they did get it back after squeeking out a victory over the Bungles, it was short lived), they don't execute, they don't just make plays when plays need to be made, they don't handle adversity well, they don't close out games when they do get the chance...

This teams biggest problem is between the ears and they are playing WELL below their talent level on both sides of the ball.

I'm tired of hearing about 3 year plans and 5 year plans.. IT DOESN'T TAKE THAT LONG.. look at the Dolphins, look at the Falcons... Seriously, look at the Falcons, this is a team that got outscored by almost 160 points last season, they bring in some new personnel and start a rookie QB... they let the rookie play, they slip in and out of no-huddle packages just to change things up, they substitute in the no-huddle seamlessly... we get called for illegal formation after a freakin' timeout and I believe we are STILL the only team in the NFL that hasn't scored a TD in the final two minutes of either half because our 2 minute drill looks like it's being drawn up in the dirt in between plays...

Good answer...

Quote:

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And honestly what do you know.

You're no scout. Your insights are just your opinion.

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Well geez, I guess now that your here we can no longer offer up our opinions then right?

A question was asked by Rishuz,, Toad gave his opinion! what the hell is your beef with that..

Not sure what your problem is,, but I'm thinking an atomic enema might help get all of that out of your system

I believe it's BOTH

Something else that bugs me is the selections...I think it was during Andersons first series in the game, they lined up with 5 wide and I'm thinking.........has Quinn even seen that formation yet?

How are they doing that with DA and not Quinn??
Another example would be earlier in the game on third down (can't for the life of me remember what play or when it was), after the play they showed a view from above, It was a 2 wr 1 te I formation if I remember right and one player ran past the sticks. One. It was a third and 5ish.
Why ?
Are they handicapping Quinn when he can probably be fed more complex stuff?

I was thinking the same thing Attack...why the different formations for DA?

Its like this whole coaching staff has different rules for each QB, DA gets more favorable formations, more time to screw up.

Quinn is only allowed to throw slants out of the trips and ace formations, and get 2 qts of bad play? Give Quinn time, give him the full play book, let him learn and grow...end of story.

Its like this staff is somehow protesting Quinn playing.

Chud baffles me sometimes, hes either to risky, or curls up in ball. Hes too damn predictable to even casual fans, let alone opposing DC.

I don't know what it is about Chud.. sometimes he appears too vanilla, then other times he really seems to out-think himself and make things a lot more complicated than they have to be..

http://ee.dispatch.com/Daily/skins/Colum...W=1053630245578


Jamal Lewis, who ran only 10 times but averaged 5.8 yards, questioned offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski’s play-calling again.
He tried to be diplomatic but made it perfectly clear he’s at philosophical odds with Chudzinski.
“You see it for yourself,” Lewis said. “The worst thing about it is how you prepare. You prepare to come out here and do your job and be the best you can be. Then, the most disturbing thing is when you’re not really able to get out there and put that stuff to work on the field. You do all you can do, and then it’s just put to rest come game time.”
Lewis said the play-calling leaves him “confused, but I just try to make the best of a bad situation and not blow up.”
Will he try to talk to Chudzinski about it?
“Been there, done that,” Lewis said. “It’s his show. It’s not mine. My job is just to do what I’m asked to do.”

In Chuds defense...Jamal hasnt been anything special this season...we cant just give him the ball 20 times, let him get 70 yards and lose the game that way, wed still lose, and just have a happy Jamal.

Jamal is right tho on one thing...we need to run the ball MORE...just not with Lewis.

We need to run around 25-30 times again, and I'll stick with giving Harrison 15 carries and keeping Lewis around 10-15 as well.

But it doesnt matter because Chud doesn't run enough, and when we do, its the same 3 runs over and over, the 2 dive runs and the pitch. No off tackles, draws, counters..

Either way, once you players gettin pissed about not getting the ball....the ship has sailed.

Chud has been sitting in the booth with his playbook and laptop, and this website.

http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~ssanty/cgi-bin/eightball.cgi

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Now that doesn't excuse Chud for giving Lewis the ball only 10 freakin' times against a sad run defense

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That's what really ticked me off. We were also averaging IIRC over 5 ypc yesterday as well.

One of the sure-fire ways to NOT bring along someone who is essentially a rookie starting QB is to get rid of the run game.

sophmore slump?

who knows.

IMO it's pretty simple:

1) We played far inferior teams last year

2) Teams have had a year to study up

That's about it. Play better teams and your magic quickly disappears in the NFL.

edwards and stallworth being utterly ineffective has had the biggest negative impact overall. these guys were supposed to be pretty darn good. they aren't. this unit made tons of phenomenal plays last year to save innumerable drives.

besides that, i think it's all about adjustments. they either haven't been made or the wrong ones were made. when something works most guys would stick with it. this team generally doesn't.
when something is failing most teams usually try to adjust to what the defense is giving up. this team generally doesn't. all the head scratcher plays i've seen have been one or the other.

JMHO.

Football OFFENSE 101

Establish the run...then work Play Action pass. This has been and will be a staple in Football for a long time to come.

Sure there are occasions where sometimes Defenses...so wary of this Football 101 procedure will over play the run so that it doesn't get established. In those cases...sure pass, pass, pass and then open up the run and let them have it. If they persist to be stubborn...lol keep passing. I've seen Bellicheck like open up a game with 23 straight passes.

But I bring this up cause The Texans are one of the worst Run D's in the NFL. Even if statistically they look mediocre, they actually are VERY BAD.

We owned them in the run game. Literally Owned them and in a situation like that the OL gets stronger and the Defense gets the strength sapped out of them!

Chud sometimes to me gets too enamored with his play book. And not with the flow and recognitions of the games.

Give me an Offense that is executing...and I'll beat any team with 6 plays. You don't need an Encyclopedia.

We had the Texans PRIMED for Football Offense 101 and didn't pursue it one bit. Not only did we not pursue it but actually Abandoned it.

And when we didn't abandon it and drove via the run. On two occasions in the RedZone with 3rd and short do we utilize the fact that we have owned the Texans in the run game and put Vickers and Lewis in...with Double TE. Then we either run it with the notion that we will go for it on 4th down...cause what the hey what does a 4-6 team have to lose? Or GOSH forbid...we show RUN and they go short yardage and Run PLAY ACTION...we had them set up for Play Action the Offensive Dream situation. With Heiden, KW2, Vickers in there any one of them would be excellent Play action WRs for 2 yards. This is what I thought Chud was all about when he came here. Create Mismatches and then Utilize them...and we have SOOOOOO many weapons....almost always the FB would be wide open in a Play action play like that and we got one of the best Receiving FBs around. How many times do we see him???

But in this Texan game the most disappointing thing. We got their D on their heels exactly where an OC should be smiling ear to ear.

But we go EMPTY BACKFIELD!!! We tell the Texans we are going to Throw this ball. You don't have to worry about the run. We got lucky and succeeded once and then 3 plays later run the same exact play...wait, lets trick them and run it to the OTHER SIDE

Heck I would have taken a QB Draw play at least in that situation.

Yes, BE let the DB take inside position. Yes, BQ made the decision to throw it in blind faith his WR would do his job. But what a Stupid Play call. I'm sorry but Chud needs to get a grip on himself and get back to basics. In that entire game I don't remember play action at all.

JMHO - Just thinking lately about MO Carthon. I'd love to see what he could do with this OL. With this group of Weapons and believe me I'll tell you this. He would ran the ball up their throats till they surrendered with the running success we were showing. And I'll guarantee you this. He would have RAN PLAY ACTION. The majority of the fans think they know but sorry to say they don't...heck I don't even know everthing

But they judge Mo on some pitches on 3rd n short. At the time at least Mo recognized who was our most viable weapon...not the OL and surely not Rueben. But what I liked about Mo...he didn't sit on a lead. He threw when teams expected run...and he ran when teams expected pass. I liked that about him. The fact he had one of the worst offensive teams at the time made him a Scape Goat.

JMHO - I'd love to see what he would do with this Offense...Apples to Apples. Chud ain't impressing me much.

Well now EO,
Sometimes I think that I say some way out things but to bring up Carthon, even I had to smile on that one!! But what gets me is that the Browns said they wanted to be a power running/play action pass team but once Anderson started throwing 20 yard in patterns in tight windows, that was gone!!. After than, Chud has been pass first, establish the run later. He does NOT understand balance or using the weapons he has. Very little imagination or if people would really look at it, when does he create mismatches!!.. Crennel might get fired but CHUD has to go also!

Cleveland Browns' offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski discusses his offense
Saturday, November 29, 2008
Mary Kay Cabot
Plain Dealer Reporter

Browns offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski and Jamal Lewis cleared the air this week after Lewis questioned the play calling following Sunday's 16-6 loss to the Texans.

"I didn't see everything Jamal said but we sat down and we talked," said Chudzinski. "We're on the same page as far as those things go. I love having Jamal here and being a part of this team. I'm happy for him to be here and be our starting running back. I don't want it any other way."

Lewis declined to talk Friday, but after several conversations with Chudzinski throughout the week, the two are apparently on good terms.

"We're all Browns and we're all family and that's what a team is really, a family," said Chudzinski. "Anybody that comes from a big family knows that there's always going to be some disagreements along the way."

After the loss to Houston, a game in which Lewis carried the ball only 10 times but averaged 5.8 yards, Lewis said the most disturbing thing was to prepare to run a lot and then put it to rest come game time. He also said he was trying to make the best of a bad situation and not blow up, and that he just stood there cold, feeling the breeze.

It was the second time Lewis has been vocal about a lack of commitment to the run, including after the loss in Baltimore when he said it was pathetic he only got the ball 12 times. But when a player who is only 179 yards away from 10,000 for his career speaks up, it commands attention.

"I love the fact that [Lewis] wants to run the ball every play," said Chudzinski. "If we had a running back that didn't want to run the ball every play, I'd be a little bit concerned.

"By the same token, we have a bunch of other guys that want us throwing the ball every play."

Lewis' frustration undoubtedly stems from the fact the Browns won five of their final seven games last season thanks in no small part to Lewis' production. In those seven games, he averaged 112.7 yards and had four 100-yard outings. He also had two 92-yard games.

This season, his production is far off the pace of last year:
In 2007, he averaged 93 yards per game. In 2008, it's down to 65.

Last season, he gained 1,304 over 14 games (not counting the New England game in which he had only one carry before leaving with an ankle injury). Over 16 games, he would've had 1,490. This season, he's on pace for 1,041 yards.

In 2007, he had five 100-yard games, but four came in the last six games. In 2008, he has none.

Last season, he averaged 4.4 yards per carry. This season, 3.7.

In 2007, he averaged 21.2 carries per game. In 2008, 17.7.

Chudzinski, whose offense is passing 55 percent of the time, acknowledged he has to find the right balance for success.

"It's probably going to be somewhere in between, a mix," he said. "When you lose and when you're not doing well, the competitive nature of guys is going to come out. It's, 'Well if we would've done this more - what I do the best - we would've won more.' "

Chudzinski pointed out the run-pass ratio in the Texans game was equal through three quarters (18 to 18) and that he went to the air in the fourth quarter - 14 passes to two runs - because the Browns were trailing, 16-6.

"We felt like to try to win the game we needed two scores," he said. "The clock starts becoming an issue for you and you have to be able to get the ball downfield a little more. Until that point, on first-and-10s and on second-and-manageable down and distance, which for us means second-and-8 or less, we actually ran the ball 16 times and we threw it only seven times.

"I think the game situation dictates what you need to do. We've committed to being an attacking offense and being balanced. That doesn't mean we're running equally with throwing. If we just committed to running the ball 50 times a game or throwing it 50 times a game, I don't think that would give us our best chance of winning."

The other challenge for Chudzinski is to try to give Lewis the carries he needs to really get rolling, and still find plays for change-of-pace back Jerome Harrison.

"That's the tough thing," said Chudzinski. "If you cut down Jamal's reps and carries and give them to Jerome, you are cutting down on Jamal's effectiveness as well. That's the balance we have to work our way through."

To reach this Plain Dealer reporter:

mcabot@plaind.com, 216-999-4670