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Joined: May 2007
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Undeniably I was complaining last year about Lerner. Yay!
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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Trouble is if your an owner like Jerry or AL than your a trouble maker who sticks his nose where it dosent belong, if your an owner like Randy than you dont care becuase your not sticking your nose in the NFL part, if your doing both than your causing problems and walking away leaving others to clean it up.
Only one owner per year does a great job and that the Super bowl winner all the rest dont care or are trouble makers.
boy, ain't that the truth.
3 different pictures- two of them bad.
and the only common denominator:
fans.
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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A good owner would step in. Lead. Talk to the public. And outline a plan to move forward. And that would be that. Instead we get what we have....
Oh......you mean meddle........got it! 
How do you know Lerner doesn't have a plan? I'm pretty sure he has a plan. 
The owner hires the GM to manage the team. That means it's up to Savage right now. That's the right plan. If you want a meddling owner, you want an organizational cluster-fudge like what's going on with the Raiders and the Cowboys.
Simply put, you think Savage should be gone, so you're critical of Lerner because he hasn't done it yet. Ok. That's your opinion. I don't agree with it, and I think it's a little iffy, truth be told.
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We are not at the cap and we have more than 8M in cap room. But we are at the imposed cap as far as cash flow per Lerner...and that has been stated many times by Savage when names such as Ty Law were brought up.
Really? I'd be interested in seeing some of those comments.........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Nov 2008
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Rookie
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OP
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I'll give you one. I could find you ten. But it's one of those time effort equations that doesn't pencil out for me. Cleveland Browns GM Phil Savage to seek cornerback help Thursday, May 22, 2008 Tony Grossi Plain Dealer Reporter Two weeks into voluntary off-season practices, the Browns have lost two players they were counting on heavily. Last week it was right guard Ryan Tucker who went down with a hip fracture. He had surgery and will be out at least until August. This week the news is grimmer. Daven Holly, who was at worst the team's third cornerback and more likely a starter, probably was lost for the season after blowing out his left knee during practice Tuesday. Already shorthanded at the position, the Browns now must scramble to bring in one or two cor nerbacks with experience. General Manager Phil Savage all but ruled out unsigned, 14-year veteran Ty Law and Philadelphia's Lito Sheppard, who has been offered in trade and wants a new contract. Savage previously inquired about them and concluded each was too expensive to fit into the team's internal budget based on what the team already has paid out in cash bonuses to players signed and re-signed in free agency. "We've got the cap space," Savage said. "The issue for the 'big-name player' would be the actual cash out the door, budgetwise. We're pretty much pressed up against our budget internally, so that's going to eliminate certain players, unless they have a change of heart. You don't really expect that at this point. It's only May 20. Maybe that changes by the time we get to training camp." On Law, who played under Romeo Crennel at New England, Savage said, "Based on what he places his value at, as far as coming in and playing, it's not close to what we'd be able to pay. So I don't think it's something we'll pursue very hard." On Sheppard, who became expendable after the Eagles signed Asante Samuel in free agency, Savage said, "Moneywise, I don't think it's something we'd be able to fit in our budget, unless there's a complete 180 from where [his contract price] was before the draft." Savage said he prefers to find a veteran cornerback who is good enough to be among the team's top three. Experienced cornerbacks still unsigned for 2008 include Chad Scott, Andre Dyson, Kelly Herndon, Fred Thomas, Terry Cousin and Tory James. Savage said he would have some players in for visits soon and also has "put some feeler calls" to other teams about a trade.... _______________________________________________ Onto your other topic. I'm curious as to what you would do when the person running your company continues to make a mockery of your company in multiple ways and sends his football coach to press conferences to answer questions pertaining to your penchant for telling the customers to have intercourse with themselves. In my world either there is 1. An owner of the company that has to get involved in a strong or meaningful way. 2. A Board of Directors that calls a meeting with the GM (or Pres) and then decides a course of action based on his tenure. In Cleveland...there is a disinterested owner, spending his time in New York or England in a hot tub while a city's most beloved franchise swirls down the old white porcelin goddess.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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sidearm:I'd never presume to speak for 'Toad... he seems to be quite able to do that just fine on his own (nudge, nudge...wink, wink...)- but I'd like to take a shot at this one.... Quote:
"I'm curious as to what you would do..."
I'd sit him down in private, and have a nice (or maybe not-so-nice) chat with him. Maybe have a "come to Jesus" moment or two. Operative word here: PRIVATE. That means: no press, no outsiders, no anybody else. Just him and me. The way it ought to be. Furthermore, how do you know that hasn't happened with Randy and Phil? If it's private, YOU and I won't be knowing about it... and that's just fine by me.
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" In my world either there is
1. An owner of the company that has to get involved in a strong or meaningful way.
2. A Board of Directors that calls a meeting with the GM (or Pres) and then decides a course of action based on his tenure."
Once again... IN PRIVATE. And again... how do you know this hasn't happened (or won't happen)? Quiet leadership is leadership all the same. Just because Randy Lerner doesn't throw a public hissy every other week, get lots of TV time in the owner's box (like Art Modell) or go to the press after every game, doesn't mean that he's not engaged in the workings of his company. There are many different types of leadership styles... and each can be just as effective as the next. Randy's style may not appeal to you, but that doesn't mean that his leadership is non-existent.
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"In Cleveland...there is a disinterested owner, spending his time in New York or England in a hot tub while a city's most beloved franchise swirls down the old white porcelin goddess."
Total speculation... and based solely on perception- and nothing else. I know that for some folks, perception is reality... but let's be really honest here: neither you nor I (-nor even 'Toad, for that matter...) works in and around 76 Groza, so we don't really know how this thing's being handled behind closed doors. To make assumptions is one thing, but to make general statements like yours and present them as fact is simply irresponsible... and will probably be challenged every time on this board. That's how many Dawgs roll in here... and it's kinda cool, if you ask me. It keeps everyone honest. If I get too big for my own boots, I actually want to be called on it (... and that's why we have Dawgs like Jules here...) 
First rule of 'in-print credibility': only emphatically state as fact that which is verifiable. If it's an opinion, state it as such.
(BrownsfanZ- you listenin'? You'd get a lot less grief in here if you'd just adhere to this simple rule of posting... )
Opinion? Fine. I Welcome it every time- all the time. But pleeeez don't tell us that Randy is for-sure disinterested in the Browns, just because it seems that way to you...
[posting police rant/ off],
Clemdawg
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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I'll give you one. I could find you ten. But it's one of those time effort equations that doesn't pencil out for me.
One is enough. Well, I"d like one or two more, but if I really feel the need for'em, I can find'em.
It's an interesting theory. On the surface, that's sure what the quotes look like.
The reason I don't honestly believe it is based on nothing more than one quote from Lerner just this past week. He was asked how much the financial ramifications would play into his decision to fire RAC or Savage at years end. His answer was "zero."
I'm inclined to believe that once Savage had signed all the "big name" players he felt were necessary, there may not have been frivelous money available for borderline guys like Law who wanted guaranteed years and a hefty signing bonus above and beyond veteran minimum salary. Lerner has shown he'll spend the big bucks, but not for players who run a risk of being "dead money" towards the cap next year or the year after.
See, considering how much money we've thrown around at guys like Anderson, Rogers, and Stallworth just this year, I simply can't see Savage going hog-wild with all that up-front money, then not being allowed to spend minimum dollars on street free-agents. It just doesn't add up to me.
I read the quotes, but I don't believe it. It makes no sense.
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I'm curious as to what you would do when the person running your company continues to make a mockery of your company in multiple ways and sends his football coach to press conferences to answer questions pertaining to your penchant for telling the customers to have intercourse with themselves.
In my world either there is
1. An owner of the company that has to get involved in a strong or meaningful way.
2. A Board of Directors that calls a meeting with the GM (or Pres) and then decides a course of action based on his tenure.
In my world, there isn't a question of what to do, but rather when to do it.
I'm not enamoured with everything Savage does. I feel as though I've been very fair in not only my praise of Savage, but my criticisms as well. For every time I stand up and applaud for a signing such as Steinbach, there's an equally demonstrative time when I spit at Opie's feet for his remarks about "Christian players." A high-five for the trade for Droughns, a kick in the gonads for the Crennel extension. The list goes on and on.
To be blunt, I felt there was zero chance Savage would get the ax this year prior to Email-gate. Now I think there's a possibility, even if I still feel as though the odds are against it.
Hell, it may even be time for Lerner to demote Savage to doing what he does best. I wouldn't be opposed to such a move, though said move would clearly force Lerner to keep Savage's contract intact.
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In Cleveland...there is a disinterested owner, spending his time in New York or England in a hot tub while a city's most beloved franchise swirls down the old white porcelin goddess.
Such is your opinion. I don't share it.
Don't confuse a reticent owner for a dispassionate one.
Some men love the camera. Others don't. Considering how the president of his company has been doing when thrust into the spotlight, I'd be less inclined to speak or comment for all to dissect and spin as well.
Remember, an active owner isn't necessarily a good owner.
I like Lerner just the way he is; not out in front of the camera, yet very willing to make changes and spend money, but in no huge, stoopid rush to do either.
If a person wants to hammer Lerner because he isn't a die-hard Brownie, that'd be their choice, but it'd be short-sighted. Those kinds of people are prone to knee-jerk reactions and poor decisions. If said people want to hammer him for some of his football decisions, they could at least make a case, even if many don't agree. He chose poorly with Davis and Policy, with Collins and Crennel. However, he had no template from which to draw his conclusions, so he's had to learn as he goes along. I think we're closer than many believe, even if it isn't showing on the field this year.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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To be blunt, I felt there was zero chance Savage would get the ax this year prior to Email-gate. Now I think there's a possibility,
One has to look at "Email-gate" and decide was it a action of frustration simply because of losing, or was it frustration because of a deeper worry?
We have lost before and had bad games before where E-mails weren't sent off in frustration.
Granted, the frustrations of losing are deeper this season....one that held high hopes.....but my friend, I think the frustration is tied to a deeper worry...the worry one has when they see things sinking and they have no life raft.
Savage isn't going to lose his job(if he does) because of some text message.
He hasn't even been placed on notice, which he has by the comments made public this week, because of a text message.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
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We have:
1. An owner, not from Cleveland, who did not buy the team, who does not choose to live here, but who chooses to purchase a soccer team in Europe.
Wrong, he was raised right here in Shaker Heights, Ohio,,, you need to do some research... If instead of a purchasing a soccer team in Europe, he decided to buy shoe factory in Korea.. would that make you feel better. These are businesses.. He's a business man,, I fail to see the big deal.
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2. A General Manager that seems to despise managing anything, other than his hands on scouting trips all over the country. A guy who might rather go to the dentist than end up in a press conference. And a guy who has an ego more fragile than a Ming vase.
These are your opinions but I just don't agree with any of it. I'm betting you can't point to any incident that proves your assertions,, but like I said, they are your opinions.
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3. A Head Coach who wants to "try" and give his team a "chance" at the end of games to win. A publicly stoic gentleman, a first time head coach at any level, a guy that is indefensibly awful at in game management be it clock or personnel, and a guy that rightly should be very worried about his job
Publically stoic! Yeah, he's a gentleman.. he's not the type to go off on his team or players in public and you think that's a bad thing. Ok,, so that's not your cup of tea..
But why are we talking about the GM and Coach,, your opening thread said you didn't want to talk about them.. Make up your mind will ya!
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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