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Thanks Jules,, that is a much better read.. Normally, I just laugh off anything coming out of Grossi.. But this one seems to have been written with care.. seems to anyway.
WOW, prior to reading this, you couldn't have convinced me that Lerner would dump both guys.. now, I honestly don't know. I think we could be looking for a new GM and HC...
I think if he dumps Savage, his next GM will be Kosar,, Just a gut feeling there to be honest..
As for HC,,, wow, ,that would be interesting.. who would Kosar tab for that I wonder.. With Savage gone, you can toss out Kirk Ferentz..
Who would Kosar pick as HC? Hmm.. I wonder.
Cowher? I suppose it could happen, but didn't we once hear that Cowher wants to be HC and GM? And as recently as yesterdsay, Cowher was saying that he doesn't see himself going back to coaching.
Jimmy Johnson? I don't think you could get JJ off his boat in Miami...
Marty Shottenheimer? We could do a hell of a lot worse that Marty..
Those are the only ones that pop into my head...
But for the first time, I'm getting the feeling that both could go...
Daman..i persoanlly feel Cowher is allready a done deal for us...just the Browns and Lerner and Cowher will keep it quiet until around the end of January
As for Savage, he is gone..that outburst email to a fan tells the the Cowher "rumor" was more than a rumor...that is the sign of a man under "pressure" and the look in RAC's eyes in his post game presser looked like a man "ready to cry" the man knew he was fired.
listening to Cowher sunday and Boomers comments all but told me Cowher is our man...Boomer only works with him im sure he knows when Cower said:
"They are a few plays away from being a good team"- Bill Cowher
"Maybe just a good coach away"- Bommer Esiason(his reply back to Cowher) which on National Tv just gave a big smile and No rebuttal!
IMo its a done deal...this is the job Cowher always wanted anyways...he wanted the HC job here badly after we fired Marty...this is the job he has always wanted...this is living his lifelong dream
As for our Next GM? thats easy,
It will either be Kevin Colbert from the Steelers, or Omar Khan from the Steelers...both whom Cowher has worked with before..1 of those 2 guys will be our New GM
so next year looks like this
GM Kevin Colbert or Omar Khan
HC: Bill Cowher
remember I said it!
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I think if he dumps Savage, his next GM will be Kosar,, Just a gut feeling there to be honest..
We all know about "gut feelings" around here, but that one I like. Kosar is just so darn intelligent. I'd like to see how he'd work even as a QB coach if interested. He wasn't mobile, didn't have the greatest arm or the best stats, but he could read defenses and was a genius at audibles. (Until he was told not to call them!)
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Marty Shottenheimer? We could do a hell of a lot worse that Marty..
All we have to do is look at the sidelines on Sunday! My biggest question about a Marty/Kosar tandem is this: Didn't the two of them have some issues about how the offense should be run a few times when Kosar played for him? I know after the '85 season, Bernie said (rightfully so) that the offense needed to be opened up. I also thought there was a time after Lindy Infante left that there were issues about OC, play calling, etc. In fact, didn't Marty leave in part because he was told to hire an OC, and insisted he'd call the plays?
I know that was a long time ago, but I wonder if there'd be an issue.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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OK....I am not going to bicker over the odds...call it 50/50 or whatever you want.....the point on a personal basis is I have taken a lot of flak for suggesting more than a few weeks ago....even months ago.. Savage might be tied a lot closer to Romeo than was believed by many.
No....back slaps aren't what i am looking for.....but there have been a few slaps in the face that need to be retracted.
Sorry, I am just a person with feelings like anybody else.
I never agreed or disagreed with those takes, but I'll say you got awfully lucky that Savage is a basket case ... even though your predictions were prior to him melting down ... 
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quite frankly, I could understand it, especially if I were Jewish
I guess I don't understand that comment,, did Savage say something negative about Jews? Did I miss it?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Phil/Rac are released, it by no means ties one to the pther , only in the fact they were both here at the same time..
But what you keep ignoring is that Randy/Collins hired Rac and Phil stamped it.
Rac was never Phil's hire..his choice..but he worked with him..
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Lerner is Jewish. Phil made comments regarding wanting "Christian" athletes. Get it?
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Lerner is Jewish. Phil made comments regarding wanting "Christian" athletes. Get it?
I doubt that Lerner is looking at that as anymore than what Phil actually meant and that is he wants players that have a higher belief structure and have a higher moral fiber.
If anyone takes that as a slam against Jews, then they are just reaching... Just trying to find something wrong.
I don't think,, at least I hope, that Lerner isn't that petty.
Last edited by Damanshot; 11/26/08 12:20 PM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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If Phil/Rac are released, it by no means ties one to the pther , only in the fact they were both here at the same time..
But what you keep ignoring is that Randy/Collins hired Rac and Phil stamped it.
Rac was never Phil's hire..his choice..but he worked with him..
tacker...YEP..Savage did not hire Crennel and has never gave any indication he would have. The two have appeared to work well together but let us not forget, Phil did have a hand in bringing in a new offensive coaching staff after Romeo's OC, Carthon, was fired in mid season, in 2006.
Savage brought in Chud and likely had a hand in hiring the rest of the offensive coaching staff.
When Grantham, who was Crennel's first choice as the Browns defensive coordinator was fired after last season, I believe that was likely Crennel's call, given that Romeo's experience is on the defensive side of the ball.
But again, it looks like hiring of Mel Tucker, was not such a good call. So Crennel's judgement in coaching hires, can legitimately be questioned.
Lerner can stand back and look at the overall picture and make his assessments based on results.
1...Crennel hired Carthon and was forced to fire him in mid season in 2006.
2...Crennel hired Gratham and fired him last season obviously not happy with his performance.
3...Crennel hired or promoted Mel Tucker to DC and the results are obvious.
Savage, who did not hire Crennel, stepped in and helped to put together an offensive coaching staff that produced instant results last season.
This season, I don't know how many games where the offense handed the defense the lead, only to watch the defense lose the lead and the games ended in another loss for the Browns.
If the Browns record was just two or three more Ws and the team was say 6-5 or 7-4, I doubt you would hear anyone complaining, given our tough schedule.
Lerner can look at this team and say, were are not that far from being where we need to be, if we get good decisions and leadership from those in charge..the head coach.
Savage has done his job well..not perfectly, but not as bad as many want claim.
I hope that Lerner is not influenced by the crazy talking heads around Cleveland and looks at what is right with the organization and builds on it. I don't want to see a complete cleaning house again.
Another 5 year plan is not what is needed in Cleveland. We need a head coach that is willing to accept what is right with the team and fix what is wrong witht he team.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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If I'm Lerner..than he has to evaluate things outside of the talking heads in Cleveland. Meaning whatever inner circle of advisers he has..I'd be rounding them up and seeing what the next best moves are. Pretty much looking for a new coach..who has the X and O's down pat and knows how to get the max production out of talent.. Next you look at Phil..has he passed the test? Or does he need just to focus on certain areas and I bring in someone to be over him...like a Bernie K??? Actually I'd love Bernie to be the personnel dept and QB coach... 
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Actually I'd love Bernie to be the personnel dept and QB coach...
Saddly With in two years, Bernies reputation as a Browns legend would be so tarnished he wouldnt even wanna attend home games. People around here would be ripping him for the players he picks or the moves he makes,
Folks havent we lost enough, we have very little to hold onto anymore, lets keep one of our legands a legand lets not tarnish Bernies past because we fans will destroy his future.
Bernie should stay a symbole of what were fighting to get back to, something that connects the past with the present. If the Browns hire Bernie as a GM or coach of any sorts, he will never be able to live up to the hype fans will create, We will lose another legand.
Last edited by ClayM57; 11/26/08 11:23 AM.
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J/C.
With all of the speculation about GMs and coaches, I'm surprised that Scott Pioli's name has not been mentioned on this board. Perhaps, everyone expects him to go to Detroit or the NFC (out of respect to Belichick and the Krafts in New England). Or, everyone expects New England to find a way to keep him from leaving? But for my money, Pioli is the only can't-miss hire on the market.
I hope Lerner learned his lesson from the last management turnover - by hiring Savage and RAC at the same time to work alongside Collins, he created a three-headed monster. Now, it is a two-headed monster and Lerner is unable to discern who is truly responsible for the team's current situation. What Lerner needs to do is hire a GM to run the entire football operations and lead the organization (something that Savage is not capable of). The HC is the least of his worries now - he needs to get his front office and leadership structure in place.
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What?
GMAB..the dude has a good football mind..you put him in situation that doesn't give him exclusive power..but working in tandem with someone else..like Phil..but if I had my choice he'd be QB coach..
I ain't worried about his rep being destroyed .
Spiderdog ... I hope Lerner learned his lesson from the last management turnover - by hiring Savage and RAC at the same time to work alongside Collins, he created a three-headed monster. Now, it is a two-headed monster and Lerner is unable to discern who is truly responsible for the team's current situation. What Lerner needs to do is hire a GM to run the entire football operations and lead the organization (something that Savage is not capable of). The HC is the least of his worries now - he needs to get his front office and leadership structure in place.
Did I miss something?
Collins/Lerner wanted Rac first , then they hired Phil..and after that Phil signed or officially hired Rac..so there was no 3-headed monster..
Phil never had a chance to hire who he might have wanted , the decision was ALREADY made on the coach.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/26/08 12:03 PM.
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Lerner is Jewish. Phil made comments regarding wanting "Christian" athletes. Get it?
I doubt that Lerner is looking at that as anymore than what Phil actually meant and that is he wants players that have a higher belief structure and have a higher moral fiber.
If anyone takes that as a slam against Jews, then they are just reaching... Just trying to find something wrong.
I don't think,, at least I hope, that Lerner is that petty.
It's not a slam against Jews.
It's a stOOpid comment that told the entire world that Savage favors Christian players.
Besides the fact it makes players roll their eyes, it also can polarize the organization and/or lockerroom. If you don't believe it, look no further than the former QB for the Lions who was a big Christian guy. He was very vocal with everything and it rubbed the players the wrong way. I can't think of his name off the top of my head. He went on to flame-out for the Cards. Blonde kid.  Players also didn't dig the antics of Kitna at times.
I can tell you this: If I owned the hotel I work in, and if I were Jewish, and my GM came out and said he favors employees who have strong Christian beliefs, I wouldn't simply ignore the comment.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I'm not one who scours the league for coaches/GMs like I do players..but if Lerner does make a change further than Rac..lets say he keeps Phil but puts him in a diminished role..the Browns need to stop trying to mimic other organizations..it hasn't worked..they need their own identity..one that speaks or lends to the Browns history..we tried cloning San Fran..and Carmen destroyed that...we had Botch who wanted Bizzaro World..and now this era which is supposed to combine Bellyache and Ozzies colors..  Not working...
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Hmmm.........Ok.
Savage was a big name before we hired him. I understood the decision to get him.
My problem with our current situation revolves around RAC. Lerner and Collins, two NON-football men, decided that Crennel was the best head coach for the team.  Lerner decided to give all the power to Butch Davis. He made those mistakes. Since then, he's fired Collins and kept the football man in Savage. He's kept one guy from having all the power.
I think Lerner is learning. He tried doing it his way, and it failed. His way led to Crennel, who chose terrible coaches to work under him, which helped put us in the position we're in right now. When we fire RAC, we'll have the chance to let football people choose the right guys. That's a start.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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If I'm Lerner..than he has to evaluate things outside of the talking heads in Cleveland.
Meaning whatever inner circle of advisers he has..I'd be rounding them up and seeing what the next best moves are.
Who is in his inner circle? I'm concerned that he does not have a strong inner-circle, if he has one at all. And, while I'm on the topic, are these advisers "football experts", "sports experts", or simply "management experts"? I am very interested to learn who Randy Lerner is asking for advice. As a billionaire, he is in a position to call anyone in the world to get advice.
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Not saying to scrap Savage..I'm saying the effort to mimick other organizations isn't working and Lerner has to help the Browns have their own.
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It's a stOOpid comment that told the entire world that Savage favors Christian players.
It's probably just me, but I don't find it to be all that stupid of a comment when taken in context. Only when you take it out of context does it evem remotely take on a negative overtone.
Clearly, he wants players that have that better moral compass. Be they Christian, Jewish, Muslim.. whatever.. It's the attitude he wants,, not the religion.
I'll go back to my original thought,, I don't believe Lerner is that Petty to conclude that Savage doesn't want Jewish players or that he is in any way slamming the jewish faith.
Now, that certainly doesn't mean Lerner won't fire Savage at the end of the season. I mean, you can say that Savage has brought in a higher degree of talent but the question is, how much higher?
And I think of bigger concern is the Savage outburst towards a fan last week that caused such a stir. To me it showed a level of immaturity and insensitivity towards a fan that was, being a bit of an A hole, but clearly frustrated as well. It would have been better judgement for Savage to have ignored that particular fan.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I think Lerner is learning. He tried doing it his way, and it failed. His way led to Crennel, who chose terrible coaches to work under him, which helped put us in the position we're in right now. When we fire RAC, we'll have the chance to let football people choose the right guys. That's a start.
I think his way also led to a front office that does not have clear leadership. Maybe Savage can be that leader/football person to choose the HC, but we are not able to know if he can do it because he had no part in hiring RAC. I expect Lerner is making this an important part of the decision to keep Savage - if Savage has a clear plan for replacing the HC, then maybe he survives. Regardless, I feel confident that we will finally make a thoughtful selection of a head coach. 
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And I didn't say you said to scrap Savage 
I was doing nothing more than discussing the situation.
Emulation only works if the people you hire are competent. RAC has proven not to be. Savage was doing a pretty good job, right up until he decided to send a profanity-email to a fan 
I think it's more about personnel than it is about the structure.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I go back to Lerner's comment that the Browns don't have a identity..thats a organizational thing as well as a player thing..
We say we want to be this pound the ball ram it down your throat but we don't even do that when we play suck defenses..we want to efficiently run a 34 but have made bad decisions day 1 on personnel and coaches..
So if we're trying to emulate another organization then you use that model and branch off of it..
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It's a stOOpid comment that told the entire world that Savage favors Christian players.
Besides the fact it makes players roll their eyes, it also can polarize the organization and/or lockerroom.
I'm with Daman.
One of the most respected players in the league was Reggie White, a minister who led prayer services at midfield, and he had the least polarizing affect in the locker room. We can cherry-pick Bible-thumpers who are positive role models and those who are negative role models in all walks of life. What matters is mutual respect (and the almighty dollar, even if it does say "In God We Trust"...).
Given that Savage has been able to sign the players he has wanted, I don't think his religious persuasion has deterred players. And any schisms in the locker room are due to lack of respect or immaturity - NOT his desire to have players who are Christian.
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Religion won't dissuade or pursuade any player to sign. If you offer the biggest contract, you get the player. It rarely plays out any other way.
While I agree that Savage's beliefs haven't played a role which would cause dissention in our lockerroom, that doesn't mean the players don't It also doesn't mean it absolutely isn't something that can create a problem.
We're kinda splitting hairs here, so I'll move on and say I believe Savage's statement about Christian players was dumb when he made them, and was vehement about it. That statement now becomes relevent again because he made a decidedly NON-Christian move by sending that dumb email. Now he looks like a hypocrite, not only for the email, but for stating Winslow put himself and his actions above the organization.
I'm digressing from my earlier point, so I'll leave it at that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Respect your opinions even when I think your totally wrong  , (which as you and I are usually on the same page ) , Is vary rare  .. Just don't see all the love for Savage and his Talent evaluations
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That statement now becomes relevant again because he made a decidedly NON-Christian move by sending that dumb email. Now he looks like a hypocrite, not only for the email, but for stating Winslow put himself and his actions above the organization.
I'm digressing from my earlier point, so I'll leave it at that.
In some ways we are splitting hairs, but I disagree that these are related events.
Stupid is as stupid does. Whether he made the statement about being Christian or not - the email was still a dumb move, in and of itself. The Christian statement only has relevance, in and of itself. You think it was wrong for him to say it back when he was hired, which is fair. But to say that the statement is worse now, in light of his other actions, is not valid. Each of these "dumb moves" are just items in the list of actions that point to whether he can be the leader of the organization.
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More specifically, I'm so-so on his talent evaluations at the college level. That's different than his ability to acquire talent, because free agency plays a role.
Two different animals.
Yes, we can say any idiot would know you have to spend the money to fix the offensive line first, but the reality is that there are a bunch of teams in the NFL that haven't done it, hehe. To that end, Savage recognized the problem, and went after players named Bentley, Steinbach, Shaffer, and Hadnot.
Savage brought in defenders like Robaire Smith, who played well last year, and Shaun Smith, who's play is only appreciated when we see how poorly his replacements play, hehe.
Getting Lewis was a really good move, and though he's a debatable starter, there's no debate that stealing him when the Rats tried to sneak him through waivers was a HUGE deal for the Browns. We know who I"m talkin' about
Then there are the trades Savage has made. Droughns paid dividends. Fraley, while unspectacular, does his job. Bringing Rogers in was a big feather in his cap. Corey Williams has played well IMHO because he's been doing it with one shoulder.
To be fair, that isn't to say all of his signings have worked out. Stallworth has been a dismal bust. Ore? Peek? Pfftt.
Savage has only been so-so with his draft picks, but his choices in free agents and trades are excellent. So when I combine all of the above, I think he deserves a passing grade.
Having said that, don't ask me about his time in front of the camera, or his work behind his computer
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Free agent / trade arena I will give the guy a C+ / B - ..... In the Draft area ( which is where he was suppose to be so great ) I give a C/C- .... Nothing to brag about ... I'm a bottom line kinda guy
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--Comment about players who are Christians.
--The numerous times he's gotten defensive in press conferences without being provoked revealing an insecure personality.
GMAFB Lets tar and feather him, or boil him in oil, he prefers christian players 
As for his press conferences, some of you people really crack me up with your "Romeo doesn't show enough emotion so fire him. Phil shows to much emotion fire him crap"
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Toad,
IT seems like he can evaluate free agent talent but his draft picks have alot to be desired. Savage record shows about 1 good pic per draft and usually 2 more fillers. 2006 and 2007 were decent drafts but as you look at the Talent on the Defense, especially on the front 7, other than Rogers, there is nothing there!
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Out of all the bad things that have happend this year ... this has the look and feel of being the worst .... Randy is NOT A FAN and can not act like one ... I pray to god he realizes this ...
I do not expect U folks to understand this and thats OK ... cause we all know how i feel about the football intelligence of most of U .. but in this case even some of the people I respect as far as knowing the game goes are ON BOARD with what Randy is selling ...
its been a TOUGH ASS YEAR ... even for guys like me that had alot lower expectations than most and can see hos this has been a RUN AWAY FREIGHT TRAIN as far as things go ... this year was Murhpy's law at its finest ... and it was all encompassing ...
HE CAN NOT MAKE WHOLE SALE CHANGES ... IF HE DOES WERE IN TROUBLE ... and like i said ... I know most u frustrated and knee jerk know nothings wonlt see it that way at all ... but it doesn't make it the right thing to do ..
The best thing that Randy has donw since hes taken over is go out and study a couple of the most succesful francises int he league and saw how they did it .. and they did it with STABILITLY ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE ... they took chances on YOUNGER PERSONAL GUYS and on HC's with plenty left in the tank and LET THEM MATURE AND GROW AND LEARN TOGETHER ...
thats not debatable ... it is a FACT ... I pray to God Randy in his desire to show he wants to win and act like a dolt fan does not blow this thing up .. If he does we'll feel the affects for another 4 or 5 years ...
if he wants to dump RAC I can understnad and get on board with that one .. he has lost the team ... its time for him to go for that reason ...
Opie NEEDS TO STAY ... he has not done a bad job at all in how he has built this team ... he has some hits and some misses .. LIKE ALL GM;S ... i sometimes wonder if most of U even pay attention to how other GM'd do in the draft and FA ... cause if U did .. U would know that Opie is not near as bad at it as most suggest ...
he has made some mistakes and done some dumb ass things this year ... but I see no reason why he should not be here and allowed the ooprtunity to learn and grow from those mistakes ...
and quite frankly if he kept RAC (and he won't) .. that wouldn't be near as horrible a move as some will make it out to be ...
he gave these guys an EXTENSION FOR A REASON ... and one year like this does not erase all the good they have done ...
If he gets rid of Opie and RAC ;... it will tell me that Randy didn't learn from his studies of the succesful ones and we will always be floundering until he does ..
RANDY IS NOT A FAN AND CAN'T ACT LIKE ONE ....
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Diam.
You are right that Randy does not need to act like a fan. If anyone thinks so, just ask any Washington Redskin fan about that. But Randy needs to attend some practices and see the situation on the field. The quote about picking a QB tells me that Randy does not know or does not see what was going on. Anyone who saw the Browns play or practice could tell that Quinn did not beat out DA this summer. So in knowing that, what did he think was going to happen?? Also, why didn't he question Savage about this defense?? Especially the front 7?? Again, its nice that he wants to win, but try showing up once in awhile.
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If I'm Lerner..than he has to evaluate things outside of the talking heads in Cleveland.
Meaning whatever inner circle of advisers he has..I'd be rounding them up and seeing what the next best moves are.
Who is in his inner circle? I'm concerned that he does not have a strong inner-circle, if he has one at all. And, while I'm on the topic, are these advisers "football experts", "sports experts", or simply "management experts"? I am very interested to learn who Randy Lerner is asking for advice. As a billionaire, he is in a position to call anyone in the world to get advice.
Randy Lerner is smart enough to know what he does not know...
Randy Lerner has stated that he is not the guy that has the "football" expertise to run this franchise. He has stated that he needed and wanted someone to run this franchise for him and he would be comfortable staying in the background and letting others handle things for him.
That is exactly what Lerner has done, too. We rarely hear a word from Lerner and for the most part, we fans are clueless about how much involvement Randy has in the day to day or week to week management of the Browns...AND THAT IS EXACTLY THE WAY RANDY LERNER WANTS IT.
Many of the stupid talking heads in the Cleveland area don't like it because Lerner is not giving them the stories they want and their access to Randy is so limited, it really peeves them off.
I was listening to the idiot on WTAM on the drive home yesterday and I could not believe the crap this guy was making up, just to try to make a story out of Lerner's rare interview yesterday.
Lerner said he would assess the situation after the season...that was about it. He did not rant and rave about the crap the media is attempting to make stories out of and would say nothing to confirm nor deny their opinions, theories and claims.
In other words, Randy Lerner gave the Cleveland media very little to make a story out of.
Randy Lerner's right hand man is Phil Savage and he is running this franchise for Randy Lerner. Until someone else enters the picture to replace Phil Savage, it will be Phil who does the hiring and firing with Randy Lerner's ok.
Crennel has had a seat at the table too, as it should be. When Romeo wanted to make a change, it was with the blessing of Savage and most likely with the final stamp of approval by Lerner. Honestly, I believe Crennel, Savage and Lerner have had a good working relationship, even if the results on the field have not been what they wanted.
Due to Crennel's record as a defensive coordinator with 5 super bowl rings, I feel that Crennel has been in charge of the defense from day one. Crennel wanted Gratham hired and Crennel wanted Grantham fired and it was done. Crennel wanted Mel Tucker promoted to DC, and it was done.
When Randy Lerner assess the performances of those he has hired to manage and coach his team, he will have a clear record to assess both Crennel and Savage on. Lerner knows more about the inner workings of his team than anyone, including the fans and especially the media.
Randy Lerner takes more than his share of shots from both the fans and the media for his management style but no one can say he is influenced by outward forces such as fan and media pressure.
Depending on how the next 5 games go, Crennel's future is in the hands of his players.
Savage's job is likely safe unless a high profile head coaching candidate would demand full control of the Browns GM/head coaching responsibilities.
Personally, I'm tired of 5 yr programs. I feel that this team is half way to the goal of being a playoff team. If we had a good defense, we would have at least two more wins so far, this season. If we leave this offense intact and concentrate on fixing our defense, we may be closer to the playoffs next season, IMO.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Keep in mind what you're asking:
You're asking for the owner of the team........an owner who isn't a football man.......to make football decisions.
That is a very, VERY slippery slope.
We truly don't know what Lerner thinks because he's so private (and I think that's a GOOD thing so that people, such as the media, can't pick him apart) but he does know what's happening. He just isn't qualified to make football decisions. having said that, his common business sense will tell him whether or not RAC has been waffling on his decisions, if RAC has been bumbling during in-game management, if Savage has been sending dirty pictures to his sister-in-law, or if coordinators are screwin' up when they go for a fullback-dive on 3rd and 15.
Lerner doesn't need to micromanage. He needs to do exactly what he's doing, which is to say NOTHING to the media (may the burn in Hell ) take a wait-and-see approach, and make no snap decisions.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Who is in his inner circle? I'm concerned that he does not have a strong inner-circle, if he has one at all. And, while I'm on the topic, are these advisers "football experts", "sports experts", or simply "management experts"? These are guys who know how to run a football team, he's mentioned it before. I do feel it's more likely Rac is gone..and usually when a new coach is brought in they want their own hires..I think thats more of a probablity than Phil being tossed out.. I think Phil is safe..to a degree..I cannot say about his total role though.. But we won't know till the offseason. I said the other day I don't want to see another blowup..that would set this team back again.. Diam..I don't know or think Randy is selling anything right now..the only part I wonder is his response to the Winslow mess..and if it happened the way the rumors have described it , I don't get it..unless he wanted all of that kept silent.. On Kellen Winslow’s situation: “There were two specific comments that caused flags. The staph infection is a terrible thing and scary. Supposedly, the organization didn’t care about the player concerning the illness. That flies in the face of our organization and we addressed it.
As far as telling him to keep it quiet fell through the cracks regarding an injury or illness as we deal with illnesses different than injuries.
I'm not sure what to make of that sentence. But it seems like he's embarrased by several things and wants to evalute everything.. He seems more disappointed about the teams performance than anything else. As far as Phil's draft goes, he's made some mistakes..some things he did I didn't like even though I understood the reasoning behind the move.. U know as well as most I watch how teams draft..not every team but the successful teams I watch..especially those who get the freaking players I want 
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/26/08 04:10 PM.
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Quote:
Opie NEEDS TO STAY ... he has not done a bad job at all in how he has built this team ... he has some hits and some misses .. LIKE ALL GM;S ... i sometimes wonder if most of U even pay attention to how other GM'd do in the draft and FA ... cause if U did .. U would know that Opie is not near as bad at it as most suggest ...
Of everything in your post, this stands out the most to me. I've often thought about this. We see things as only Browns fans many times. How many have ever looked at and analyzed other teams draft picks and FA signings - and I don't just mean the ones that the Browns "should have taken". Every team has it's Andre Risons and Mike Junkins. It seems magnified here, because this is the only team most of us study. No GM will be perfect.
Look at the Steelers. They let Joey Porter go, and he's having a great season in Miami. They let Alan Faneca go, and their line is worse for it. The Browns are not the only team in the league to make mistakes in personnel. That being said, this team cannot afford to make as many mistakes as it has or it will never be a consistent winner like a Pittsburgh or New England.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do.
-Derek Jeter
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I agree with just about everything you have said. This is absolutely not a time for knee-jerk fan type reactions. However, with that said. There has to be a limit to how long you wait. Do we have the patience left to wait a Bill Cohwerian 14 years? Can we afford to wait that long? As a football follower(I won't say expert even as close as I may be ) I know that it takes time to instill a winning perception into a losing franchise. It takes time to replace all of the players with better talent responsibly. It takes time to install every facet of your Offensive and Defensive Schemes and to have your team not only understand it, but know it and know where everyone else is to be as well. I know that it is an up and down journey as the team learns that prior successes can't be rested upon. But as a fan I see teams like the Falcons and Miami, and the Saints a few years ago. I see these teams with new programs that develop FAR faster than we have even dreamed of...Teams that were terrible and looked over at one time but now are perrenial tough games. Some of these teams have had special circumstances, like Zorn and the Redskins...the team was largely built before Zorn got there(But Zorn I think is doing a fantastic job). But not all of these teams...So why do all these teams aside from Cincinnati seem to develop at Warp Speed and we can't keep any sort of momentum??? Personally I think Romeo is a great Coach for allot of reasons. But I also think he is a terrible coach for a bunch of reasons too...And given his good reasons...the bad ones don't make much sense....I can understand how the move to keep him next year as your post mentions would not be a bad idea...but I am not so sure you could convince me right now that it is a better option than losing him...Neither option sounds all that appetizing
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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The numerous times he's gotten defensive in press conferences without being provoked revealing an insecure personality.
I'm not sure I've ever heard him get defensive in any presser....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I'm not sure I've ever heard him get defensive in any presser....
I wouldnt say defensive either, He does short talk alot of questions and doesnt let the Media lead him on a conversation he dosent wanna go, he stops it right there and changes the tone or direction.
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But as a fan I see teams like the Falcons and Miami, and the Saints a few years ago.
Those are HORRIBLE EXAMPLES for many many different reasons ... the first one being ...
WE WERE DEVOID OF TALENT when these guys got here .. Opie/RAC GUTTED our team ... and RIGHTFULLY SO ... these other fellas did not have to do that .. these guys had SOME TALENT that was poorly utilized .....alot of folks say this is Opie/RAC's 4th year of re-building ... well its not ... that first year was a COMPLETE TEAR DOWN .. we picked up NO LEGITE FA'S ... not a one that was SOUGHT AFTER by anyone else cause of the cap hit ... and in year 2 they were limited in with what they could do in FA cause we still felt a good sized sting from the cap hits from the year before ...
U can't compare these situation just because of that ... and theres more ... I gotta run now ... so can't tell u the rest right this second ... *L* ...
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This peeing contest over who has final say in a string of bad decisions and trades is a dead end. A good choice ought to command a lot of support. But I am equally concerned about who we get, how much we give up, and ESPECIALLY IN HOW we use them. Stallworth has been almost worthless, esp for a part-time, short time proposition. DA is given horrible calls, and BE can't catch a cold in a phone booth. The Lerner spin statements are true, butnot true enuff to do anything at this time. Keep Savage and limit him; give the new HC about 80% say in personnel, and 100% gameday. No Crennel if he can't show something decent. If he has a scheme that shows some aggression and violent contention, blitzing etc. let's trot it out. If you won't compete, take a seat. Sit Edwards to start. If you won't play, then you won't stay. Period. We didn't draft, sign, and hire losers. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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