|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I wouldnt say defensive either, He does short talk alot of questions and doesnt let the Media lead him on a conversation he dosent wanna go, he stops it right there and changes the tone or direction.
Given the general medias propensity for blowing things out of proportion,, can you blame him? I certainly can't.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
Quote:
WE WERE DEVOID OF TALENT
Agreed. I actually looked recently at our last 4 drafts compared to Pittsburghs (because they are our rival AND because they are considered one of the best drafting teams around) and it's not that bad... throw in free agency (gains and losses) and we have been much more effective over that period.. the fact that we are still where we are and they are where they are speaks volumes to where both teams were 4 years ago.
The one thing Opie hasn't done, which is going to be the difference maker, assuming he gets another year or so... is to bring in a couple impact defensive players... that is the biggest thing this team is missing.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,845 |
Toad,
I do not want him to turn into J.Jones or D.Snydor(sp) but I think by now he should be able to ask intelligent questions of Savage and Rac on why things are or are not happening. By now, if he has been meeting with RAC and Savage, he should be able to tell why his team is not performing. If the problem is RAC, then RAC has to go. If the problem is Savage, then Savage has to go. But stating that he does not know why the team does not have a identity or a QB makes you wonder if he actually knows what is going on in his team.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
He should be taking what he hears from Savage, what he hears from RAC, then using other folks, like a Kosar.. (remember, Savage and RAC will tell him the truth up to the point where it might hurt THEIR career).. so he needs an independent voice to help him gauge what he's hearing...
This team doesn't have an identity because for years it floundered around drafting skill players and acquiring aging veterans through FA with no focus on any single element of the team ..... and drafting no OL and the DL we took didn't work out .... and it changed coaches every couple years... that's not how you build an identity...
It doesn't have a proven QB for much the same reason, we are just now getting a good OL in place to support a QB and since Couch, we haven't gone after one... every QB in between was either a reach or a stop gap... All he has to do is look at last year to see how well even a decent QB can look when given time...
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
OMG, Diam...we agree for the most part...
Honestly, I did not read your post before I posted mine. I just read this post by you and was shocked to find that we do agree for the most part.
I hope Randy is not listening to the stupid Cleveland media, like that big fat idiot at WTAM, Triv.
Stick to the plan...keep what is good...fix what is not good.
What is good is Savage and the people he hired to run the offense....
What is bad is obvious to everyone...."the defense", that can't protect a 14 point lead, can't sack a QB, can't stop the run, can't stop the pass.
It has been a tough year and I expected it to be. I knew if the team played well and we ended up with a record of 7-9 or better, Crennel would likely stay.
But the team has not played well and it became obvious to me over the last few weeks, Crennel has lost the respect of his players and it shows with their play on the field...especially on the defensive side of the ball.
Randy Lerner has not been a "knee jerk" kind of owner and I'm hopeful that he will analyze the moves he and Collins made in 2005, realizing they got it half right.
I don't want Randy Lerner doing any more hiring. Randy hired Savage to run his team and it would be best if he allowed Phil to do the job of finding the right head coach for this team.
I believe we can all agree, a one or two year program is much better than another 5 year program.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
He knows. He just doesn't want to do like the typical fanbase, which is to knee-jerk his way through things.
Lerner doesn't run a great company because he's prone to rash decisions. Running an NFL team is no different.
We also need to keep in mind that playing the media represents a huge part of this. If he points the finger at Savage or RAC right now, it forces his hand to make a move if it's Savage, or forces Savage's hand if it's RAC. Since it can easily be argued that there isn't a viable interim HC candidate on the staff, yanking RAC now does nothing for us, and could make things much worse.
Lerner is doing what I think should be done, which is to say little. Remember, with the media, they twist everything you say.........and most of what you don't. By giving them so little to work with, he's keeping them at bay, which is why they don't like him. Poor, poor babies  
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
Daman..i persoanlly feel Cowher is allready a done deal for us...just the Browns and Lerner and Cowher will keep it quiet until around the end of January
Here's the updated read to the Grossi article from Tuesday:
web page
I hope that you and the other folk that continue to blather on about Cowher read it....and I would hope that you read and obtain the knowledge that they CANNOT do what you are suggesting. If the process is not followed, the team will lose draft picks at the least.
DAMANSHOT- What skills does Bernie Kosar have to be a GM? What experience does he have to be successful if given this position. Here, I will save you the trouble:
NONE NADA ZIP ZILCH ZERO SQUAT
The Browns have NOT contacted Bill Cowher about being the coach.
Bernie Kosar will NOT become our GM or OC or HC.
Leave the grassy knoll theory crap above alone because it is a bunch of garbage......that is not opinion, it is fact that cannot be realistically refuted.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
That big fat idiot Triv wants Rac and Phil gone..he was totally dejected  when Lerner didn't fire both immediately..which made me smile.. Lerner needs to think things through and not react like people want him to. Now I'm not backing Rac staying..but Lerner needs to get a quality coach in here... Phil ..well like I said I have a feeling there's going to be a adjustment to his role..maybe ..maybe not..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
AD,, Triv just wants to stir the pot. That's how he gets listeners.. well, in my case, that's how he lost me as a listener.. Remember when he said he had cancer and it turned out that he didn't,,, well, the day I found that he was just pulling a stunt,, I stopped listening to him. As for Knee Jerk reactions, I agree, now is not the time to be hasty. But I now think RAC has to go.. Phil may also, but then remember, when the Browns moved to Baltimore, the new HC at that time was Ted Marchabroda (sp).. They gathered all that talent and couldn't win anything.. enter Brian Billick... Then it just took off.. Maybe, that's all it will take.. well, that and some depth 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"The Browns have NOT contacted Bill Cowher about being the coach."
Sorry but I think that they have. And I believe I am allowed to still do so...Think that is.
I'm not calling you on the Rules or the Sanctions involved.
But Randy most definitely could have contacted Cowher and negotiated with him in the sense....IF, IF the BRowns job was available...Would This Offer pry you from your TV job???
That can and probably did happen and there is nothing wrong with that unless he is on another team...then it would be tampering.
Of course Cowher is going to deny up the Kazoo about an overture. If you're going to be the HC you don't want to start with Draft pick sanctions!
Randy is no dummy. I'm sure he cleared whatever he did with the NFL office before doing so. AS in I want to do this...how can I do it without breaking the rules.
But then again...its JMHO and not a bit of fact just a little Sherlock Holmes stuff.
1. Cowher never gave the Browns a compliment while at CBS...all of sudden he's telling all how this team is good and just a player or two away?
2. Boomer counters with...OR JUST A COACH AWAY....
Not concrete facts just Sherlock Holmes stuff. And I'm sure Randy did whatever he did within the boundaries of the RULES. But I'm sure some Dialog was made there.
Oh and HAPPY THANKSGIVING!
I'm out of here...see ya all in a couple of days
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
I know Lerner is 10 smarter than the bfi Triv, but with Randy's style of not saying much and the fact that the idiot has a platform to stir the pot, it's easy for Triv to develop a following for his opinions.
While some of us know Triv and most of the media in Cleveland are just itching to start something to gin up a story, most readers and listeners forget they have a brain to think with and spread the media's poop.
Another example is McManamon...he wrote something pitting Savage and Crennel against each other, then went out and got opinions from some players supportive of Crennel to make it look like Savage didn't know his butt from a hole in the ground. What a biased peace of journalistic crap from McManamom...
Members of the media are taking sides, pushing their biased opinions, trying bump their share of readers and listeners at the cost of accuracy and responsible reporting.
I guess the Cleveland media never claimed to be top shelf...or any where close...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Quote:
Out of all the bad things that have happend this year ... this has the look and feel of being the worst .... Randy is NOT A FAN and can not act like one ... I pray to god he realizes this ...
I do not expect U folks to understand this and thats OK ... cause we all know how i feel about the football intelligence of most of U .. but in this case even some of the people I respect as far as knowing the game goes are ON BOARD with what Randy is selling ...
its been a TOUGH ASS YEAR ... even for guys like me that had alot lower expectations than most and can see hos this has been a RUN AWAY FREIGHT TRAIN as far as things go ... this year was Murhpy's law at its finest ... and it was all encompassing ...
HE CAN NOT MAKE WHOLE SALE CHANGES ... IF HE DOES WERE IN TROUBLE ... and like i said ... I know most u frustrated and knee jerk know nothings wonlt see it that way at all ... but it doesn't make it the right thing to do ..
The best thing that Randy has donw since hes taken over is go out and study a couple of the most succesful francises int he league and saw how they did it .. and they did it with STABILITLY ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE ... they took chances on YOUNGER PERSONAL GUYS and on HC's with plenty left in the tank and LET THEM MATURE AND GROW AND LEARN TOGETHER ...
thats not debatable ... it is a FACT ... I pray to God Randy in his desire to show he wants to win and act like a dolt fan does not blow this thing up .. If he does we'll feel the affects for another 4 or 5 years ...
if he wants to dump RAC I can understnad and get on board with that one .. he has lost the team ... its time for him to go for that reason ...
Opie NEEDS TO STAY ... he has not done a bad job at all in how he has built this team ... he has some hits and some misses .. LIKE ALL GM;S ... i sometimes wonder if most of U even pay attention to how other GM'd do in the draft and FA ... cause if U did .. U would know that Opie is not near as bad at it as most suggest ...
he has made some mistakes and done some dumb ass things this year ... but I see no reason why he should not be here and allowed the ooprtunity to learn and grow from those mistakes ...
and quite frankly if he kept RAC (and he won't) .. that wouldn't be near as horrible a move as some will make it out to be ...
he gave these guys an EXTENSION FOR A REASON ... and one year like this does not erase all the good they have done ...
If he gets rid of Opie and RAC ;... it will tell me that Randy didn't learn from his studies of the succesful ones and we will always be floundering until he does ..
RANDY IS NOT A FAN AND CAN'T ACT LIKE ONE ....
The Best thing Randy can do is Get rid of Savage and Crennell..both have mismanaged their respective positions and Phil Savage even embarrassed the franchise with that email tirade...he should have been fired on the spot for that outburst..any other company professional would have been canned for that one by the Board of directors.
Savage is NOT a GM..the man is in way over his head. That email should be the final nail in his coffin, not to mention the handling of the Winslow incident and everything else, Savage made this franchise look "bad" very bad..thats a public relations nightmare for Randy Lerner I feel so bad for him. Make no mistake Savage told that PR guy to send that text...it always comes from the top down....
Savage has not done anything "great" in the draft...the only good pick Savage has made was Joe Thomas and that was a no brainer
Dqwell Jackson, while our best LBer and I like him, in reality the guy was a reach, same for Brodney Poole. Tink about this for a moment our Best players on this team outside of Shaun Rogers are:
1. Kellen Winslow = Non Savage pick
2. Steve Heiden = Non Savage pick
3. Ryan Tucker = Non Savage pick(our OL stinks without him)
Now Savage has made some good Fa moves like Joe.J, Steinbach, and Rodgers/Williams...but he had made some awful ones too like:
Ted Washington
Willie McGinest
Donte Stallworth
these guys have done "nothing" to improve our team..we get run all over, passed all over...these guys werer paid money to improve us and they haven't..therefore you can't call them good investments...especailly Stallworth...that was the worst FA mov ein this hitory of this team...worse than Andre Rison
Savage needs to go...or be demoted to cheif scout maybe...but this team is in need of some wholesale changes..big ones
Braylon Edwards is a LOSER the guy quit on his team and quit on his fans...he needs to be FIRED get him out of here..he has no place being on this team....I don't care what he did last year, this guy "gave up" he quit on his team, he quit on his fans, and he quit on his family...this guy is a cancer with no class...I want him gone...I will take a receiver with half his talent that never quits(See Hines Ward) over a guy like him....Say what you want about K2 but he has NEVER quit on his team like Edwards has done...Edwards is the single biggest piece that needs to go period! if you can't see that, then your blind.....We can get a receiver via FA T.J Whosyourmama or maybe even trade with Indy and bring over Reggie Waybe(both true Number 1 wideouts) that are much better than Braylon"Im a quiiter" Edwards
Cleaing house with RAC and Savage will be the best move Randy Lerner can make....these guys haven't delivered on their promises...they had 4 years and still no playoffs thats enough for me...had they made the playoffs last year, maybe I cut then some slack, but they didn't..therefore it is what it is....and im sure Randy will weigh this matter accordingly
Savage has done nothing that he should stay...that outburst he made to a fan is reprehensible is not professional business behavior...that hurt this franchise more than you know...Fa will no see Savage as totally unprofessional...Kellen Winslow and other players in the lockeroom seems not to care for Savage but like RAC....Kellen Winslow saying he was treated like a "piece of meat" will be rining in the heads of FA contemplating coming here, your kidding yourself if they don't. Winslow was treated like a piece of meat
Shopping a guy when he is hurt in the hospital is just "low" atleast have the common "decency" to wait till the guy is healthy and then striahgt up tell him your trying to trade him...at least have a little bit of honor about yourself which obviously Savage doesn't have
See ya Phil and Romeo..I won't miss you when your gone
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
"The Browns have NOT contacted Bill Cowher about being the coach."
Sorry but I think that they have. And I believe I am allowed to still do so...Think that is.
I'm not calling you on the Rules or the Sanctions involved.
But Randy most definitely could have contacted Cowher and negotiated with him in the sense....IF, IF the BRowns job was available...Would This Offer pry you from your TV job???
No he couldn't have. I'm sorry that you fail to see the ramifications involved.
Quote:
Randy is no dummy. I'm sure he cleared whatever he did with the NFL office before doing so. AS in I want to do this...how can I do it without breaking the rules.
Not possible.
Quote:
Not concrete facts just Sherlock Holmes stuff. And I'm sure Randy did whatever he did within the boundaries of the RULES. But I'm sure some Dialog was made there.
And I'm sure there wasn't. *shrug*
If you and others wish to live in fantasy land with Mr Rourke waiting on the plane to land, have at it.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 147
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 147 |
Ok shep, I'm not saying it did or did not happen, but to act as if nobody ever breaks the rules to contact somebody they shouldn't is ridiculous.
Your attitude towards the whole thing is pretty revolting actually. eo make a bit of conjecture based on what he has read and seen, and your answer is "No, it's against the rules so it didn't happen. Stop living in a fantasy world"
It's so frustrating to read someone make a statement so polarizing, if you aren't Bill Cowher or Randy Lerner you shouldn't make statements like that. You can state why think it didn't happen to but to just flat out say it didn't as if you know is ridiculous. Even if your ASSumptions turn out to be correct, you are still wrong because you say you know right now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
Quote:
its been a TOUGH ASS YEAR ... even for guys like me that had alot lower expectations than most and can see hos this has been a RUN AWAY FREIGHT TRAIN as far as things go ... this year was Murhpy's law at its finest ... and it was all encompassing ...
Really? And what was your prediction going into the season again?
It wasn't unexpected whatsoever by some, including me. Unless you think 6-10 or 7-7 is an impossibility? And yes, even at that I felt I was playing the homer just a tad.
Diam, nobody knows what "your expectations were". Because you post a pre-season prediction thread, but you don't make a prediction in it. You don't tell anybody how YOU predict the season will end up from a W/L standpoint.
But I guess that is the perfect situation for some. Let others stick their neck out making such predictions while you hold the butcher knife waiting to cut their throats when they're wrong.
Quite bold of you.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
Quote:
If you and others wish to live in fantasy land with Mr Rourke waiting on the plane to land, have at it.....
I think that is just as realistic as the "I know EVERY DAMNED THING world" that some others live in.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
Your attitude towards the whole thing is pretty revolting actually. eo make a bit of conjecture based on what he has read and seen, and your answer is "No, it's against the rules so it didn't happen. Stop living in a fantasy world"
He gave his opinion, I gave mine. That's why we are here.........it's "revolting"???
*LMAO*
Quote:
It's so frustrating to read someone make a statement so polarizing, if you aren't Bill Cowher or Randy Lerner you shouldn't make statements like that.
It's called logic.
Quote:
You can state why think it didn't happen to but to just flat out say it didn't as if you know is ridiculous.
And I feel that living in fantasy land is ridiculous. Tit for tat.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Shep...I understand your point....but it is possible contact has been made.
People can conduct in "congenial" conversation.
Nothing concrete, mind you.....but the league can't prevent two groups of people from "shooting the breeze" over dinner.
I am not saying it has happened......but it could have.
"Bill, as a ex coach with expertise in the matter...5-6 mil is what I might look at paying the right candidate if I decided to change coaches....do you think that sounds reasonable???".
Bill.....8-9 would get you anybody you wanted unless they are stupid..
There wouldn't be anything wrong with a question like that....and Cowher clearly wouldn't be violating anything offering a reply.
Rooney rule or not.....trial balloons get floated all the time.
There is a big difference between the spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule.
Now....if that conversation took place while we didn't have a coach, it would be a much easier burden to prove some possible violation....and even then it would be a hard case to press....but easier.
JMO
Romeo is still here to give us ""easier" opportunity to talk in a "congenial" manner with various people.
This recent interview was at the insistence of his legal counsel to go "on record" that he hasn't made a decision on the coach or the GM.
Again....JMO
Last edited by Ballpeen; 11/27/08 08:10 PM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I thought we would be 7 - 9 to 9 - 7 ... with 6 - 10 a possibility if the wheels fell of ... but I won't waste any more time on that as we both know why U really posted this here .. and thats OK .. its about all I expect from U anymore .. Quote:
Diam, nobody knows what "your expectations were".
Actually theres 4 or 5 posters that know what my expectations were ... just becuase there not posted on here does not mean I did not make them ... I haven't posted them the last 3 or 4 years cuase its fun to watch U all whine about me not doing it .. thats lots more fun than actually posting them ..
And its not like I ever run around saying .. I CALLED THAT YEAR ON THE NOSE AND U ALL MISSED IT ... thats not what I did here either ... I simply stated my expectations were alot lower than most and that with the train wreck the season turned into .. (sumptin no one could have predicted ..cause a big part of the train wreck has been injuries) ... that i am not near as UPSET AS MOST ..
thats all i was doing here .. I never tooted my horn and did nuttin remotely close to that ... but U gotta twist and take a dig ..... like I said .. I don't expect much out of U anymore and u didn't dissapoint once again ...
Happy Turkey Day Pit ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,044 |
Your reply was "Laughable" Diam...truely..please allow me to EDUCATE you Q: why does an NFL Franchise exist? A: To make Money! Q: what is an NFL Franchise? A: A privately owned or group owned "Corporation" that fields a professional football team to make money and a reasonable return on investment. Comparing NFL Franchise to Corporate America is absolutely correct!....may I please ask you, have you ever taken any college level business courses? or any college level economics classes? Maybe if you did you would understand this. Football franchises like all others are driven by commercial interests in a capitalistic society which is what America is I suggest you to Read a book called : An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith He is the father of Economics and our very Capitalist soceity we live in today is based off of his works. Please read that book and then come back and look at the state of our football franchise. Real truth is invigorating and real truth will set you free. you sir have a foggy vision of the state of affairs of this team. One bad investment (Like Stallworth) can set Randy Lerner back for years...it is so funny you all think Randy Lerner has "unlimited" pockets to spend 500 million every year for a losing team and he won't go broke. You do know the Andre Rison deal "bankrupted" Art Modell...it was the final nail in his coffin...the man had "no choice" but to move the team or go bankrupt....why? Because he mismanaged the franchise(like Savage is doing right now) for years and eventually he went Broke...Art Modell didn't have unlimited pockets, and neither does Randy Lerner and the sooner you folks wake up and realize that, the better of this franchise will be moving forward into the future. The money of this franchise needs to spent "wisely" we have spent money "foolishly" the last few years...Now Randy Lerner has to eat that investment...and trust me, these investments, when Randy pulls the plug, will cost him more than probably 2 years worth of stadium revenues....that's right Randy Lerner will have to "eat" this debt. it will take 2 years of football seasons to recover the money he lost on this...but he can't afford to lose anymore with the way Savage is running this franchise. just because you are 70 million "under" the salary cap doesn't mean you go out and spend 70 million dollars thats STUPIDITY! absolutle Stupidity....The Steelers "rarely" dish out huge sums of money to anyone...yet they win consistently...big Ben was the 1st big money deal they have given anyone in a very long time..the Browns Need to take notes! Savage needs to quit this spending spree it is not productive it is deterimental to the long term goals of this franchise! The Browns need a CEO(Cheif Executive Officer) the Ravens have one He is the President of the Franchise Along with the Modell's being the Minority owners...they make decisions collectively at the top....in other words, the President of the Franchise(The CEO) runs the eitire organization for the Biscotti's...he is Ozzie Newsomes boss, his only Boss is the Biscotti's the man makes sound decisions on issues such as: Hiring Money Spent firings etc His role is to "evaluate" the GM, the Coaches, and the teams current performance against the franchises longterm goals and decide if the job is being done and if not he takes immediate action to ensure those goals are met...we don't have that here, and we need it BADLY! You look at all successful NFL FRanchises, and everyone of them has a CEO...the Browns don't, and we will never have a sound organization until we do get one...plain and simple. Randy Lerner "can't" do it all..he has hundreds of other business ventures, he is simply too busy to be here all the time. The man is a great owner, but he needs help...and Savage can't be counted on to run this whole thing, the man is not qualified to do it! Randy Lerner needs to go out...to Microsoft or some other highley successful company...and find a guy to make President of the Franchise(CEO) and sell him 10% ownership of the Browns...give the CEO a direct Stake in the success or failure of the franchise....This CEO will be "here" 7 days a week 365 days a year(minus holidays and closed days) that will over see the operations and management of this franchise. You all highly underestimate these CEO's ability to run things...they "make their money" on great hiring decisions, smart investments, and smart money management...they strive for success and that translates into a winning team on the field I can't Stress this enough to you all. Paul Allen Former Microsoft CEO bough the Seahawks and had them in the Superbowl in 5 years time I do believe..it may have been 4...the point is Allen is a former CEO..the man understands making "sound" hiring decisions...he hired the most qualified and best personality for the Job (Mike Holmgren) He then conferred with Holmgren and his own business staff and hired a GM for the franchise. The Seahawks will be back in no time because Paul Allen expects excellence and he don't put up with this stuff... Holgren is retiring so its moot! The browns need that here desperatly! A CEO brings "stability" to the organization and he also brings accountability and a nice stable base to build from...that is the problem with our franchise....they also get the mot out of their investments. Do you know the Browns have the worst wins-team salary in the NFL! that is awful.... As for Winslow...yes they did try to trade him while he was in the hospital The Trade Deadline was Oct 14...Winslow was still in the Hospital as of October 10th.... NFL.com admits to Winslow being shopped...this most likely occured while he was in the hospital...nuff said! http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/10/21/winslow-was-quietly-dangled-before-trade-deadline/I am finished with this argument though, Bill Cowher will turn this team around quickly with only a few changes to the roster...Savage and Crennell have no clue what they are doing, but if you happy with each to their own...I personally can't stomach it and the way Savage handled things with the media makes this team look like fools
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Your reply was "Laughable" Diam...truely..please allow me to EDUCATE you
Q: why does an NFL Franchise exist?
A: To make Money!
Q: what is an NFL Franchise?
A: A privately owned or group owned "Corporation" that fields a professional football team to make money and a reasonable return on investment.
Comparing NFL Franchise to Corporate America is absolutely correct!....may I please ask you, have you ever taken any college level business courses? or any college level economics classes? Maybe if you did you would understand this. Football franchises like all others are driven by commercial interests in a capitalistic society which is what America is
I suggest you to Read a book called : An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith He is the father of Economics and our very Capitalist soceity we live in today is based off of his works. Please read that book and then come back and look at the state of our football franchise. Real truth is invigorating and real truth will set you free.
you sir have a foggy vision of the state of affairs of this team. One bad investment (Like Stallworth) can set Randy Lerner back for years...it is so funny you all think Randy Lerner has "unlimited" pockets to spend 500 million every year for a losing team and he won't go broke.
You do know the Andre Rison deal "bankrupted" Art Modell...it was the final nail in his coffin...the man had "no choice" but to move the team or go bankrupt....why?
Because he mismanaged the franchise(like Savage is doing right now) for years and eventually he went Broke...Art Modell didn't have unlimited pockets, and neither does Randy Lerner and the sooner you folks wake up and realize that, the better of this franchise will be moving forward into the future.
The money of this franchise needs to spent "wisely" we have spent money "foolishly" the last few years...Now Randy Lerner has to eat that investment...and trust me, these investments, when Randy pulls the plug, will cost him more than probably 2 years worth of stadium revenues....that's right Randy Lerner will have to "eat" this debt. it will take 2 years of football seasons to recover the money he lost on this...but he can't afford to lose anymore with the way Savage is running this franchise.
just because you are 70 million "under" the salary cap doesn't mean you go out and spend 70 million dollars thats STUPIDITY! absolutle Stupidity....The Steelers "rarely" dish out huge sums of money to anyone...yet they win consistently...big Ben was the 1st big money deal they have given anyone in a very long time..the Browns Need to take notes! Savage needs to quit this spending spree it is not productive it is deterimental to the long term goals of this franchise!
The Browns need a CEO(Cheif Executive Officer) the Ravens have one He is the President of the Franchise Along with the Modell's being the Minority owners...they make decisions collectively at the top....in other words, the President of the Franchise(The CEO) runs the eitire organization for the Biscotti's...he is Ozzie Newsomes boss, his only Boss is the Biscotti's the man makes sound decisions on issues such as:
Hiring
Money Spent
firings
etc
His role is to "evaluate" the GM, the Coaches, and the teams current performance against the franchises longterm goals and decide if the job is being done and if not he takes immediate action to ensure those goals are met...we don't have that here, and we need it BADLY!
You look at all successful NFL FRanchises, and everyone of them has a CEO...the Browns don't, and we will never have a sound organization until we do get one...plain and simple.
Randy Lerner "can't" do it all..he has hundreds of other business ventures, he is simply too busy to be here all the time. The man is a great owner, but he needs help...and Savage can't be counted on to run this whole thing, the man is not qualified to do it!
Randy Lerner needs to go out...to Microsoft or some other highley successful company...and find a guy to make President of the Franchise(CEO) and sell him 10% ownership of the Browns...give the CEO a direct Stake in the success or failure of the franchise....This CEO will be "here" 7 days a week 365 days a year(minus holidays and closed days) that will over see the operations and management of this franchise.
You all highly underestimate these CEO's ability to run things...they "make their money" on great hiring decisions, smart investments, and smart money management...they strive for success and that translates into a winning team on the field I can't Stress this enough to you all.
Paul Allen Former Microsoft CEO bough the Seahawks and had them in the Superbowl in 5 years time I do believe..it may have been 4...the point is Allen is a former CEO..the man understands making "sound" hiring decisions...he hired the most qualified and best personality for the Job (Mike Holmgren) He then conferred with Holmgren and his own business staff and hired a GM for the franchise.
The Seahawks will be back in no time because Paul Allen expects excellence and he don't put up with this stuff... Holgren is retiring so its moot! The browns need that here desperatly!
A CEO brings "stability" to the organization and he also brings accountability and a nice stable base to build from...that is the problem with our franchise....they also get the mot out of their investments.
Do you know the Browns have the worst wins-team salary in the NFL! that is awful....
As for Winslow...yes they did try to trade him while he was in the hospital
The Trade Deadline was Oct 14...Winslow was still in the Hospital as of October 10th....
NFL.com admits to Winslow being shopped...this most likely occured while he was in the hospital...nuff said!
http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/10/21/winslow-was-quietly-dangled-before-trade-deadline/
I am finished with this argument though, Bill Cowher will turn this team around quickly with only a few changes to the roster...Savage and Crennell have no clue what they are doing, but if you happy with each to their own...I personally can't stomach it and the way Savage handled things with the media makes this team look like fools
Not this crap again.
We've been over this time and time again. CoachB even supports me on this (for once).
You do NOT let CORPORATE people make FOOTBALL DECISIONS.
You let the FOOTBALL PEOPLE make the FOOTBALL DECISIONS.
The salary cap ensures that the Browns will make money. Art Modell was a crappy businessman, period. He couldn't even sustain the Ravens after moving to Baltimore he was so bad.
Having a corporate CEO telling the FOOTBALL GUY that he can't sign a guy like Stallworth because it's a bad CORPORATE INVESTMENT even though the FOOTBALL GUY says it's a GOOD FOOTBALL MOVE is sheer, utter, STUPIDITY.
STOP with the "The Browns need a real corporate CEO to oversee the football side" garbage. It's wrong and anyone with a lick of FOOTBALL SENSE will tell you it's one of the dumbest things we've ever heard.
Running an NFL team is NOT like running a capitalist business, especially when the NFL system is one of the closest structures to socialism in this country!
Have a Happy Thanksgiving. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Pretty accurate Ammo, except for: Quote:
Having a corporate CEO telling the FOOTBALL GUY that he can't sign a guy like Stallworth because it's a bad CORPORATE INVESTMENT even though the FOOTBALL GUY says it's a GOOD FOOTBALL MOVE is sheer, utter, STUPIDITY.
Most of us are with the Corporate guy on this one.....
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
What makes a football person??
The point is I don't think you rule someone out because they fit whatever image of "corporate" you might have.
If you have good scouts, why can't a suit make the decisions??
Last edited by Ballpeen; 11/28/08 04:39 AM.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
Shep...I understand your point....but it is possible contact has been made.
Yeah....and it's also possible that the rumors of Cowher becoming the Ravens' coach in December of last year were false. (but someone oughta tell Harbaugh, he may not know)
It's also possible that Cowher bought a house in Strongsville.
It's also possible that Cowher lied on television/radio when he said he wasn't leaving the t.v. job.
It's also possible that Lerner lied to the media when he said Cowher hadn't been contacted.
It's also possible that Cowher could become the coach in Kansas City. Detroit. Notre Dame. Slippery Rock.
Quote:
Nothing concrete, mind you.....but the league can't prevent two groups of people from "shooting the breeze" over dinner.
Nope, they can't prevent it from happening but if it happened and they find out about it.....they are circumventing the rules.
Quote:
This recent interview was at the insistence of his legal counsel to go "on record" that he hasn't made a decision on the coach or the GM.
Really?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
Pretty accurate Ammo, except for:
Quote:
Having a corporate CEO telling the FOOTBALL GUY that he can't sign a guy like Stallworth because it's a bad CORPORATE INVESTMENT even though the FOOTBALL GUY says it's a GOOD FOOTBALL MOVE is sheer, utter, STUPIDITY.
Most of us are with the Corporate guy on this one.....
Oh you know what I meant.
Bottom line is the business people should stay the hell out of the football peoples' way because the business people don't know crap about the game outside of "Oooo...look at that catch!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
What makes a football person??
The point is I don't think you rule someone out because they fit whatever image of "corporate" you might have.
If you have good scouts, why can't a suit make the decisions??
Because the suit doesn't have the slightest clue on how to build a cohesive football team.
Even with good scouts...would you really want the corporate guy handcuffing the supposed GM even though the team is WAY under the salary cap and the cap guy is brilliant with wording contracts?
"Sorry, you're not keeping the #5 pick in the draft because you have to pay this much bonus money, it's a bad investment." Even though a guy you covet is on the draft board.
"I know we have a hole at linebacker but you're not gonna throw this money at X player. We need to worry about Randy Lerner's pocketbook!" Even though the Browns will be profitable no matter what?
As long as the cap space is fine, there's no reason to curb spending in the NFL, none. Profit is almost guaranteed.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
There are at times other variables involved.....here's one of many: web page
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
I am not arguing about not spending money....if it fits the cap and makes sense, spend every dollar allowed is my opinion.
All I am saying is a person making the decisions doesn't have to be a classic "football" person.
Matt Millan was a "football" person if you want to get technical.
You just need the right people.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Quote:
Quote:
This recent interview was at the insistence of his legal counsel to go "on record" that he hasn't made a decision on the coach or the GM.
Really?
As I said in the first post....JMO
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Quote:
I am not arguing about not spending money....if it fits the cap and makes sense, spend every dollar allowed is my opinion.
All I am saying is a person making the decisions doesn't have to be a classic "football" person.
Matt Millan was a "football" person if you want to get technical.
You just need the right people.
Millen was a TV anchor with next to no knowledge of scouting. He had NO front office or administration experience prior to being named CEO of the Lions. He was not a "football guy" outside of being a player/broadcaster.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,678 |
Football is all he has ever done....he was a football person.
Butch Davis was a football person.....
I don't disagree it might be best.....but it doesn't mean a non football person isn't capable of making correct player decisions.
Al Lerner could draft players and trade for players and do well.....if he listened to his hired help....I assume he does that in his other business ventures....he has CPA's telling him what needs to be done for his companies financial health, he has legal people advising him on legal matters....I assume he listens to them.....if not, why even hire them??
Drafting players is about 80% luck anyway....most everybody is working with the same information.
Being a football person is a overrated quality IMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
Just curious .... what does any of that have to do with letting a business man run the football side of your football operation??? ..
Peenie ... the jist of your argument is that it is possible a non football guy is capable of making the right decisions .... correct?? .. well that would also mean that it is possible a first year attorney is capable of doing a judges job ... it also means that it is possible that a 5th year attorney is capable of making the right decisions for the Supreme court ...
thats by your logic anyhow ..... U want to throw out the years of experience a football guy has and render them as useless ... just like in my examples I throw out a judges years of experience as a lawyer and then a SC justices years as a judge or being in the system ....
just like being a lawyer does not ensure that person will be a good judge being a football person does not ensure they will make a good GM .. but it sure as hell INCREASES THE ODDS GREATLY .... these guys have trained and been preparing for the job over many years .... don't discount that ..
now go ahead and name me one business man that has been the GM and led his team to the SB .. go ahead ... the best example U have is Jerry Jones .. well its no coincidence that when he bought the team he handed it over to the Hair .. had great success .. he fired him cause he thought he could do better ... THEY STUNK .... he brings back the Tuna and hands everything over to him ... they get good again ... then he decides to tamper and bring in TO forcing the tuna out ..and he is now the GM in everything but name ... and there on there way back down again ....
U can't name one success story of a business guy taking his team to the SB ... and theres a reason for that .....
also U show your lackof knowledge with the statement that they all use basically the same info and the draft is 80% luck ...
they have scouting staffs and go watch these guys for a reason .. and its not cause there all using the same info .. they may have a system in place that gives them the basic info on a player .. but then there scouts and GM's and coaches take over and it is that info that they base there final decisions on ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,718 |
Quote:
Just curious .... what does any of that have to do with letting a business man run the football side of your football operation??? ..
The last line of Ammo's post that I replied to......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
I see you never responded to my question..do you really think that Rac and Phil are as tied to the hip as you project??
The last coupla statements by Phil actually show the opposite..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 11/28/08 10:15 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
I did not ask U why u posted it .. I knew that .. ya .. i actually broke down and read one of Ammos post ... after reading the drivel from Knight I figured I may as well read ammo to .. L* ..
I hope U have the foam handy .. *L* ... cause ....
I still don't see any relevance between that article and letting a business man run the FOOTBALL SIDE of your football team ...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
Quote:
Actually theres 4 or 5 posters that know what my expectations were ... just becuase there not posted on here does not mean I did not make them ... I haven't posted them the last 3 or 4 years cuase its fun to watch U all whine about me not doing it .. thats lots more fun than actually posting them ..
And this is what I expect from you. A pure cop out.
And I hope you had a great Thanksgiving as well Diam.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
I can see a non football guy being the CEO.
But I don't see the CEO as having any real impact on drafting or handcuffing your GM.
The CEO simply deligates authority, oversee's the cap room available, evaluates the job your GM and coaching staff are doing and oversee's the marketing of your team.
So while he oversee's things and takes care of the business end of operations, he isn't your GM.
And I agree that Randy has too many business ventures and irons in the fire to give the Browns the full attention required. So this CEO would be a buffer and representative of Randy's on a full time basis strictly for the Browns.
Sort of a buffer between Savage and Lerner. Someone to keep Lerner informed 24/7. And yes, football is a "business first", much as was described, like it or not.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 874 |
I went back into Diam's prediction thread to read my thoughts...(since there was talk of that thread) 'I'm gonna say 5 - 11 or 6 - 10 if we can beat Buffalo on Monday night.' 'I don't think our LB's are good enough. I guess, basically, I still think our D is not good enough yet.' It's quite obvious that I am of supreme intelligence (umm, don't go back into previous year's prediction threads ok?) To Mr. Lerner's 'commitment to success'. Our organization could use credibility. Luring Bill Cowher to be our HC would bring Instant Credibility. He's a proven winner AS a HC...has ties to our team both as a player and a coach...and knows what it takes to win in the AFC North. It would not be unlike when the Patriots turned their organization around the day they hired Bill Parcells as coach. He brought that same Instant Credibility and lit the fire in New England that has yet to be extinguished.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,216 |
I don't disagree with that Vette. We have enough talent that I believe it would make anyone drool at the oppertunity of taking over here. We're just not getting the potential and results out of the talent we have assembled. I think a guy like Cowher can see that. He could come in here and beef up the D, tweak the O just a tad and be a contender right away. The thought of being a savior is almost too much for such ego's to resist IMO 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Lerner says he's committed to
having winning franchise
|
|
