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First, I didn't "slam" Marty. I love him. I mean that literaly. I know just a bit more about Marty and his motivational techniques than just watching it on a documentary. I know al about what he said and did about Oakland. Having said that, I also know how he has coached in the playoffs.
I have "defended" RAC from inaccurate statements, and flat out lies....all the while I have CONSTANTLY said I didn't know if RAC could become a good HC. It's sad that it has come to this around here, but has been that way for a long time. When you debunk lies, inaccuracies, and people repeating crap over and over about a player or coach, you become a someone who "defends" them. Just because I,and others, have corrected such false statements, doesn't mean we've defended everything about RAC. There are legitimate issues with him as a HC....enough that people shouldn't have to resort to false or invented things.
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I don't think any of this is a lie or invented Coach. via Pdawg Quote:
Marty in San deigo had the game won against the Pats when Brady was picked with around two minutes to play...Then the DB fumbled. He played it safe in another game and their kicker missed a field goal which cost them the game. Byner fumbled away the ball as he was going in for the go ahead score.
How do you blame him for choking in these three games?
Everyone is going gaga over Cowher. In his 15 years he did get to the big game twice. I also remember the Steelers dominating many of those years only to blow it in the post season. He was also tagged with the title "Can't win the big one."
I'm not saying Marty is the answer, I just think the rap is BS.
I think it's quite accurate. Unless of course you think Marty should have been carrying the rock instead of Byner?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Pit, you obviously misunderstood what I said. I was talking about people inventing and lying about RAC throughout the season, not about what Pdawg said.
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Sorry Coach. Yes, I misunderstood your comment.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I actually can't think of anyone but Marty or Cowher that would be a big enough splash.... Not one other name even remotely comes to mind...
Well, Shula or Noll would come to mind, but both are too old I would think.
You would think? You would think?
OMG Chuck Noll is 76 years old and Don Shula turns 79 one month from now. You think they would be too old???? Why on God's green earth would you even type something like that????
Many of the things I have read within this thread this evening amaze me....such as the comment that if we get Cowher or Marty to coach but yet we still lose games then we WILL KNOW it's the players.
*LMAO*
Guess what folks.....when you lose games in the NFL 99 times out of 100 of these occurences is the fault of the players, or the lack of the proper players on the field due to injuries. The best squad on the field will win the game nine times out of ten, it doesn't matter if the coach botches a time out it doesn't matter if the coach calls an "erroneous" play here and there it is the players and their talent level and their execution or lack thereof that wins and loses ball games.
You can instill all of the "glory from the past" that you wish to with Marty or you can install all the spit and fire with Cowher screaming on the sidelines but if you don't deploy a team that is better than the team on the other side of the ball you ARE GOING TO LOSE IN MOST CASES.
Someone please give me an example where this is not true....please please please please please give me an example........
This is why we have lost games this year....even with the expectations being so high from last year's WEAK ASSED SCHEDULE that we lucked out with and DA's escalated play that we lucked out with last year lots of folks thought we were going to go to the playoffs at the least and then when reality set in with injuries and substandard play now it is the HCs fault...but guess what......NEWSFLASH boys and girls it's not RACs fault it's not Opie's fault it is the fault of the players that have been employed on the field. And the lack thereof at times in some positions.
My sincere hope is that Romeo A. Crennel is kept on as the HC of this organization and that Phil Savage is kept on in the capacity of General Manager based upon what has occurred outside of their span of control.
Please oh please oh please for the love of all that is holy let us remain steadfast in our quest in which we are now oh so close and the ship can be continued on it's course of sail.....the square pieces on the edge of the jigsaw puzzle are there, just a few more pieces to put into place to see the pretty picture........
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I'm not against Cowler or for Marty but it seems everybody keeps bringing up Marty has never won a Super Bowl, or even been there, true,
Cowler has been to a super Bowl but dont forget what 99% of the people on this board said two years ago, Pittsburgh didnt win that Super Bowl the Refee's gave it to them. So as your stroking Cowler with one hand dont forget just a few months ago you were b....ch slapping him with that same hand.
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I'm going to paste this from the other thread..see if you agree with any of this to add to your comments about the fault on the players..
The Browns couldn't handle the success they had last year..it was said by the coach they needed to stop thinking or playing off of last year..the team has been sleepwalking..like they're in a fog..
The pro-bowlers have struggled this season and it's no coincidence...
Aside from the injuries the team never had the fire it needed to go to the next level, they were TOO satisfied with last years results..a huge sign of inmaturity.
That includes the coaching staff..the way Chud has called the plays this year..it's bizzare..nothing consistant and he's totally out thinking himself..
Tucker..eh,..I'm chalking it up to inexperience and lack of talent at the LB position.
Now personnaly I have my doubts about Rac being the right coach..and I'm basing it on certain things ..technical things and his slow reactions to what his staff is doing ..instead of just standing by and trusting them to call the schemes/personnel packages right he needed/needs to be quicker to tell them what to do..
We can see Chud stumbling and sometimes bumbling stuff...thats when Rac needs to get that headset working and tell that man to stop looking at the playsheet so much and look at the flow of the game..
Create mismatches..pass when they think you're running and run when they think you aren't ..USE YOUR PERSONNEL consistantly..when you need to get a few yards leave the wildcat formation in your playbook and go run a power set and get the dang yards...stop playing chess with yourself.. 
If you have inexperienced coordinators you have to manage them..you don't turn them loose and trust they are doing the job when clearly they aren't.
I also think Rac needs to run a more physical training camp from what I've heard..it's been too light and too many vets seem to dog it ..
Make these guys work their butts off and become more disciplined early in the season..
There is a fine tuning that is lacking from this team..while it's a fact Rac prepares and has his gameplan down pat..it doesn't seem to translate, trickle down to everyone under him..thats what bugs me..
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 12/04/08 11:48 AM.
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Say what you will Shep.
RAC hs shown he lacks the ability to instill dicipline and motivate his players. And he most certainly has not gotten the potential out of many of his players.
He has their respect ( from what we know ) and he seems like a nice guy. But he's even more responsible than they players from the business end. Attack covered many of my main concerns with RAC.
But you seem to act like clock management, motivating players, and the very things Attack mentioned should just be tossed to the side. Like we should hold the players responsible, yet give RAC a free pass at the same time.
That's not how it works. EVERYBODY gets evaluated on their strengths and weaknesses. Coaches and players alike. They're ALL held to certain standards and results. Once that process is over? Let the chips fall where they may...........
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
I don't think any of this is a lie or invented Coach.
via Pdawg
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Marty in San deigo had the game won against the Pats when Brady was picked with around two minutes to play...Then the DB fumbled. He played it safe in another game and their kicker missed a field goal which cost them the game. Byner fumbled away the ball as he was going in for the go ahead score.
How do you blame him for choking in these three games?
Everyone is going gaga over Cowher. In his 15 years he did get to the big game twice. I also remember the Steelers dominating many of those years only to blow it in the post season. He was also tagged with the title "Can't win the big one."
I'm not saying Marty is the answer, I just think the rap is BS.
I think it's quite accurate. Unless of course you think Marty should have been carrying the rock instead of Byner?
Realize that was not your quote, but just to keep the record straight, Byner's score would have brought the game to within one (XP kick) of a tie.
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Personally, I think Marty would be an excellent coaching choice. But based on what he's said when he's on Sirius I don't think he's interested in being a HC.
As for us being "so close" to our goal we should keep RAC for the continuity angle.....please don't expect me to watch this team for another year with him at the helm and expect any thing other than what we've seen.....a weekly effort just good enough to lose.
People hint that the losing seasons are an aberration and that the 10-6 record of last year is what RAC should be remembered for. But realistically last year was probably the fluke and the losing seasons are RAC's normal result(s).
RAC is an honorable man. I'd love to have him as my next door neighbor. He may be an excellent coordinator. But I really need to see someone else running the team next year. I can't take another year like this.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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You would think? You would think?
OMG Chuck Noll is 76 years old and Don Shula turns 79 one month from now. You think they would be too old???? Why on God's green earth would you even type something like that????
OMG Shep,, lighten up already... Yes, I would think they are too old,,,,, and you are too ready to attack to just read the freakin words.
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My sincere hope is that Romeo A. Crennel is kept on as the HC of this organization and that Phil Savage is kept on in the capacity of General Manager based upon what has occurred outside of their span of control.
Right there is the reason you are so ready to attack anyone elses thoughts... you are stuck in a rut.
Look, I stayed true to Romeo and Savage for as long as I could. Longer than most on this board in fact.. it wasn't until I began to see a patteren develop that indicated to me that Romeo might not be the right guy to take us any further.
It's an opinion.. you don't have to share it with me,,, it won't hurt my feelings if you don't agree with me.
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Please oh please oh please for the love of all that is holy let us remain steadfast in our quest in which we are now oh so close and the ship can be continued on it's course of sail.
I wouldn't call where we are right now close and I don't like the course we are on.. so,, again, I don't agree with you.
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The Browns couldn't handle the success they had last year..it was said by the coach they needed to stop thinking or playing off of last year..the team has been sleepwalking..like they're in a fog..
The Browns can't handle the schedule they were dealt this year with the early injuries on the O side of the ball and the Defense that we knew going in was suspect in back of the line. They've been outmanned.
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Aside from the injuries the team never had the fire it needed to go to the next level, they were TOO satisfied with last years results..a huge sign of inmaturity.
Aside from the injuries????
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That includes the coaching staff..the way Chud has called the plays this year..it's bizzare..nothing consistant and he's totally out thinking himself..
I don't know that he's out-thinking himself but it does appear that they stick too much with pre-planned stuff as opposed to making adjustments when it is glaringly necessary and logical to do so.
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Now personnaly I have my doubts about Rac being the right coach..and I'm basing it on certain things ..technical things and his slow reactions to what his staff is doing ..instead of just standing by and trusting them to call the schemes/personnel packages right he needed/needs to be quicker to tell them what to do..
And I have to ask here as I have of many others how do you know he isn't? How can I get my t.v. to show this camera shot of the sidelines/coaching staff more than 30-35 seconds a game?? Not trying to be an ass here, I just never understand it when things such as this are posted because we see the game and not the coach.....we aren't in the meetings nor are we in the practices so how can you qualify this statement?
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I also think Rac needs to run a more physical training camp from what I've heard..it's been too light and too many vets seem to dog it ..
Have heard that as well but cannot and will not comment because I was there for one day, cannot make a judgment from that.
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There is a fine tuning that is lacking from this team..while it's a fact Rac prepares and has his gameplan down pat..it doesn't seem to translate, trickle down to everyone under him..thats what bugs me..
These are guys that have been playing this game for usually 12 years or so minimum before they get to this level. They are getting paid to win and I have no doubt that they want to win, but some of them aren't executing at the level required for them to win. Unless the players execute as a unit they will not win, and it is NOT the job of a head coach to motivate their desire to win. For those who have never played the game this may be a belief but in the real world it is not true whatsoever. Motivation comes from within.....from wanting to excel and from wanting your teammates to excel.
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But you seem to act like clock management, motivating players, and the very things Attack mentioned should just be tossed to the side. Like we should hold the players responsible, yet give RAC a free pass at the same time.
And you and others act as if RAC can't tell time to save his ass during a ballgame, as if he makes a clock error every week. How many have there been???
People make mistakes in the heat of battle, that is why it is a competition. If we had just a little more talent and a lot better execution, these critical time decisions wouldn't be so glaring....lots of scenarios going through a coach's mind in a short period of time....."Well, if we have Braylon as the primary on this route to move the chains and he drops it again, then what? Damn damn damn."
Execution. Dammit we (they) do need to hold the players responsible. IMO, Edwards shouldn't step on the field again this year. Trade him for three 3rd rounders. Whatever, I don't give a damn.....just dump his sorry ass. The HC should NOT have to motivate the WR to catch the ball because that is his job! He is not doing his job.........and he isn't alone.
Execution execution execution............if THEY would execute we (they) would be 7-5 at the least right now and no one would be talking about Marty or Cowher or Peoli...................
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And you and others act as if RAC can't tell time to save his ass during a ballgame, as if he makes a clock error every week. How many have there been???
More than enough . . .
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Quote:
Quote:
And you and others act as if RAC can't tell time to save his ass during a ballgame, as if he makes a clock error every week. How many have there been???
More than enough . . .
So name them. Must be a plethora of them, should be easy......
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web page For lack of a better place but since it seems to fit in with the fire RAC comments going on here.. Bob Hunter commentary: Pulling plug on coach seems like easy out, but not so fast Friday, December 5, 2008 3:08 AM By Bob Hunter THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH I'm not a big fire-the-coach guy. It has always seemed a little too knee-jerk to me. A couple of big dogs get hurt and the team starts losing? Fire the coach. The too-rich-for-his-own-good receiver lets his mind wander to the blonde he's meeting later and drops a couple of winning passes? Fire the coach. The too-smart-for-his-own-good general manager or the doesn't-want-to-spend-a-nickel owner creates a woeful team that Vince Lombardi couldn't win with? Fire the coach. You get the idea. A coach is an easy scapegoat, especially for the casual fan without the time or energy to delve into the mess. He's an easy target for a desperate columnist and an easy mark for a general manager or college athletic director looking for a trigger to pull to save his own skin. If you're in a crowded shopping mall over the holidays, there's a good chance you'll pass someone who has fired a coach for just that reason. Clearly there are times when firing the coach is a good idea. There are times when the coach has lost control of his team, is personally to blame for the losing or has been in charge long enough to prove he isn't the right man for the job. At this point, it seems logical to ask where Romeo Crennel, Marvin Lewis, Charlie Weis and Rich Rodriguez stand, given that all four are of considerable interest to football fans in central Ohio and all have been topics in this debate. Rodriguez's case is the easiest, because to even think of firing the Michigan coach is so ridiculous. Barring criminal or embarrassing behavior, no coach deserves to go after one year on the job, even when the record (3-9) begs for an exclamation point. The folks who want to show Rodriguez the door are simply showing that Michigan fans aren't any different from those at other places, no matter how loudly they proclaim their superiority. What about the others? Weis probably deserves to be shown the door but won't, presumably because Notre Dame doesn't want to pay a big buyout. Unlike Rodriguez, he has had a chance to indoctrinate his players into the system and the past two seasons have been disastrous by Irish standards; his two winning seasons came with his predecessor's kids. So why not fire him? Next year's team is supposed to be better and the schedule is weaker, so Notre Dame has a good shot to improve. That would allow administrators who blew it by giving Weis a 10-year contract a chance to keep him around a little longer and save some face. Lewis is a different story. He has had his job with the Cincinnati Bengals the longest (six years), made the playoffs once and has the worst record (1-10-1) now. But he is also working for a team president who doesn't like to spend and likes to meddle, which has created a culture of losing that defies the NFL's parity-driven system. Lewis' deserves blame for hiring players of questionable character who created holes in the lineup because of arrests and suspensions; for that alone, he could be fired. Here's why I wouldn't: Whoever succeeds Lewis will have the same trouble winning as long as ownership remains the same. Here's why I would: If you want to keep selling tickets to the suckers in the stands, you've got to do something. Crennel has made a good case for his firing from the Cleveland Browns: His poor clock management, waffling over the quarterbacks and the impression that he has lost his grip on an underachieving team are hard to dismiss. But this season's expectations were raised by last season's easy schedule, and he isn't responsible for Braylon Edwards' dropped passes. If Edwards had caught half of those, Crennel's position wouldn't be in jeopardy. It might not matter, though. Of all these men, Crennel is the most likely to go because, well, see above. There are lots of self-serving administrators who can explain it better than I. Bob Hunter is a sports columnist for The Dispatch. bhunter@dispatch.com
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I don't think I've ever disagreed with an article by Hunter.
Still don't.
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Hmm.. I'm undecided about this article personally.. not that I disagree with him, but that he's fence sitting to some degree. Now, some people may appreciate that he presents both sides as opposed to taking a side.
On the one hand he presents the reasons that you fire RAC and then, he notes the Bray drops and says you wouldn't fire him if he doesn't make the drops..
Anyhoo.. the article IS indicative of the entire conversation about this topic.
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To me that displays an important trait for a sports writer (or any columnist for that matter) to have. He KNOWS there are people on both sides of the fence reading....and this is exactly why the issue is being debated as it is here, for similar reasons related within the article.
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I'm not thinking that's much of a fence riding article. He's just calling it pretty much as it is.
Firing coachs isn't always the answer.
I've been one of those that have fought back the crys to fire RAC.. Until about 5 or so weeks ago. I just began to think, this guy, as much as I think of him personally, just doesn't seem to get the most out of what talent he has.
But more importantly, I get the feeling that he will only win when everything goes his way.. Receivers catch, QB's don't throw INT's, RB's Run, Defenders Defend, Schedule is in his favor, weather doesn't get in the way etc etc.
RAC hasn't been one to make excuses.. So you gotta give the man credit. He takes it on the chin week in and week out, never flinches.. just trudges along, trying to move forward. I think that's probably the truest thing about RAC. IMO of course.
But lately, I've just felt as if he can't get the job done. I'm not going to sit here and point fingers at Clock Managment or personnel decisions. I'm not in his shoes and I don't see what he sees everyday at practice.
For me, it's just the overwhelming feeling that we can't win with him. Not all the marbles anyway.
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I think it would be in the team's best interest to keep Romeo for atleast one more season.
EVERYONE knew before the season started, that we had a VERY DIFFICULT schedule. We all knew we would not beat out last year's records. We just knew it.
Injuries killed our season. Joe J. was a blow to the face. Robaire Smith was a shot to the stomach. Steinbach wasn't 100%, that was a chin check. Sean Jones being out was a right hook. Shaun Smith was another sucker punch. And now both Anderson and Brady Quinn out is the haymaker for the KO.
Now with the opponents we have next year, I see the Browns bouncing back. Adding a Chris Wells, or Malcolm Jenkins would be great. Acquiring a free agent or 2 would also be an addition. If there is one thing we can all agree on, is we have brought better talent and good depth to this team for the past 3 years.
It's been a rough year. But don't let this season, that was filled with injuries and a tough schedule, determine if Romeo should be here or not. When things are clicking, he is just fine as our coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
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And you and others act as if RAC can't tell time to save his ass during a ballgame, as if he makes a clock error every week. How many have there been???
More than enough . . .
So name them. Must be a plethora of them, should be easy......
I'm not going to name a plethora, just the same few anyone else here would point out. But in my opinion, its still too many for someone who's been in football this long. But I'm not calling for his head because of just a FEW clock management instances alone. I'm just looking at everything I've seen from him up to this point and have formed the opinion that he's just not the guy who will get us there.
That said, just like all fans, I am also looking at all the injuries, bad luck, tough schedule, etc... If we stick w/ Romeo next season, I am definitely not panicing and counting us out next season.
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There isn't one thing I can see wrong with what you say HotB... it's all true and there isn't any denying it.
We were sucker punched with Injuries.. no question..
But still, I can't shake the feeling that RAC is like a Dad. He's loves his kids (players) and trusts them, but will defend them no matter what they might do.
And they know it. I think they take advantage of it as well.
Let me ask you and anyone else this one question.
If Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Don Shula or Bill Walsh were the Coach of the Browns this year, and they had a Star WR that dropped a lot of balls, like 17 so far,,,
how fast would that guy be on the bench? Would he have even had the chance to drop 17 balls? I figure after 4 or 5,, Parcells would have been calling him "she"! As in She can't catch a cold!
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First if you take the injury factor out..have the players on the field PLAYED with a fire in their belly or have they been sleepwalking out there?
I see no fre or sense of urgency.
And I have to ask here as I have of many others how do you know he isn't? How can I get my t.v. to show this camera shot of the sidelines/coaching staff more than 30-35 seconds a game?? Not trying to be an ass here, I just never understand it when things such as this are posted because we see the game and not the coach.....we aren't in the meetings nor are we in the practices so how can you qualify this statement?
Hehehe..Shep..when you see a horrible gameplan called one game and then it improves next game what do you think?
The adjustments need to be made during a game..plenty of time for coaches to see what they're calling ISN'T working..
It's known that Rac lets his guys coach and he doesn't interfer too much..thats ok if you have seasoned coaches but guys in their first couple of years need tutoring.
Notice Tuckers schemes in coverage have gotten tighter and not as loose?
Fact is those adjustments could have been made during any quarter or half of a game..
Does Rac have to say AFTER a game. yeah we coulda ran more? Or "I've talked to the coacheds about using certain personnel, I guess I 'll have to do it again."
Seems obvious to me something isn't being accepted or acted upon..and thats where he HAS to step in more.
it is NOT the job of a head coach to motivate their desire to win.
I said nothing about motivation..I said execution ...fine tuning..discipline..clock management..playcalling..those things..
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Thanks for the article Dong. 
"10. Marvin Lewis, Cincinnati -- If Lewis was coaching anywhere else, his team's 1-10-1 record this season would be a death sentence. But he's working for an owner in Mike Brown who holds his nose at the thought of paying off a coach to disappear. Brown, who still owes Lewis at least $8 million over the next two years, came out this week and praised Lewis for doing "an incredibly good job'' this season."
 Brown  for all the wrong reasons. Poor Paul...a squirrel must of taken the acorn that fell off the tree and dropped some puny Weedling seed it had in its mouth...cause there ain't no Oak Tree in Cincy.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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CoachB...Marty.
At first I'm like a 100% NO. Mostly cause of his age.
But...he's such a good motivator and all his teams...PUNCHED THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE MOUTH - I mean ALL. Even the Chargers thats what has been missing with them.
If possibly AGE could actually benefit him...Could he have a Symbiotic relationship with SAVAGE. Could he exist with keeping much of the staff here. Daisher, Chud and possibly even Tucker???
Keeping Continuity in but still bringing Change? And his Character to the team.
He has a track record of bringing HARD CORE Beat downs on teams!
I just wonder....and he couldn't bring his son here cause its a parrallel job.
Back on that Dong article...I know on this subject matter a long time ago. I said probably (although that isn't as 99% sure as I was previously) Savage will get the out right shot of hiring his own HC - RAC was already the guy when Savage came and he in his 12th hour sat in the final meeting prior to the signing but wasn't really in the process.
I stated probably his two most likely candidates would be NOLAN and FERENTZ - I got a feeling that once again Savage will not be in the decision making process just as a token influence maybe. But not running the show on this.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
If Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Vince Lombardi, Paul Brown, Chuck Noll, Don Shula or Bill Walsh were the Coach of the Browns this year, and they had a Star WR that dropped a lot of balls, like 17 so far,,,
how fast would that guy be on the bench? Would he have even had the chance to drop 17 balls? I figure after 4 or 5,, Parcells would have been calling him "she"! As in She can't catch a cold!
Look at other guys who drop a good number of passes... Do they get benched? I.E. Terrel Owens? No.
Now if we are in the position, where we could afford to bench Braylon, then go ahead. But with Joe J. being out, that kind of limits that option. We have no one else to take his spot.
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"Someone please give me an example where this is not true....please please please please please give me an example....."
The 2008 Browns 
I think and close to know we had enough talent....heck 7 out of our 8 losses all were winnable games. The Giants didn't play BAD, we just brought everything to them on all 3 phases of the game.
Maybe we still don't have the talent to deservedly win a SB and that's not what I'm saying cause I know Savage isn't finished in bringing all that he wants here. But we are close to 2-3 players than most think.
I think we had enough talent to overcome injuries and tough schedule to get into the playoffs. 7 games - No doubt, no doubt in my mind we should have WON at least 4 of them...AT LEAST! with the same guys we got here. Thats 8-4 and we'd be right in this mix...I know thats a premise of "IF" I see it more on the premise though of COULDA/SHOULDA. Colts/Denver/Ravens #2/And take your pick out of the other 4 losses that we Coulda won!
But we weren't BEAT by teams. We played awful in some games and yet had enough TALENT to actually SHOULDA WON....I haven't seen losses like this in any of the seasons since 99. Where I come away with - MAN WE SHOULDA WON THAT GAME...well 7 times I came away with that thought process.
Teams who are OUT TALENTED just don't do that. And I'm not going to NIT PICK actual situations that lay blame on the coaches for a loss. All I know is with that many...MAN WE SHOULDA WON GAMES...7 in total so far. Its not about TALENT or lack of there has to be some blame and more than "SOME" laid on the coaching staff. Attitude, I don't think it Game Planning, Execution. Also a lack of cohesiveness between UNITs.
We just had too many games where the O would play good enough to win just to be let down by the D. Or vice a versa. One game they play together and show us what they are capable of??? Giants game??? That effort should have been seen every game...but it wasn't. And it wasn't from a lack of talent...
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
People make mistakes in the heat of battle, that is why it is a competition. If we had just a little more talent and a lot better execution, these critical time decisions wouldn't be so glaring....lots of scenarios going through a coach's mind in a short period of time....."Well, if we have Braylon as the primary on this route to move the chains and he drops it again, then what? Damn damn damn."
Execution. Dammit we (they) do need to hold the players responsible.
Yes, the players ARE responsible for their lack of execution. But one thing we just won't seem to be able to agree on.
A great General is a motivator. So is a great CEO, or a great HC. So are great teachers and professors.
ALL of the "great anything's" have been motivators. Even hookers from what I've been told!
Yes, players get paid to execute. Their pay is their motivation and they are accountable for their own actions. And just as Generals get the scorn of defeat or the praise of victory, so goes it with HC's in the NFL. Great Generals, HC's and CEO's, motivate those around them so they can get the most, out of the least. If you lack that ability, you won't be a great leader on any level.
That's just the way it is IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I don’t agree with the idea that we should of won 3-4 of the games we lost based only on the argument that we had the talent to do just that.
It behooves me to read a post where the writer says that they believe we are but 2 or 3 players away, but then goes on to say that we should da could da. Kind of doesn’t make sense or does it?
I read some of what I am about to say, and the rest is purely mine, for good or bad.
While I agree we are but a few players away from being pretty good more importantly or should I say just as importantly we are bankrupt or nearly so in terms of depth. If we had had some serviceable depth to fall back on perhaps we would have won those games you speak of EO. Problem is though we don’t. While I concede perhaps better coaching might have garnered us the wins, I think ultimately talent prevails. We are a few cards short of a full deck.
Here is much of what I saw in another post on the other board. I agreed with it to the point that I think it honestly bears repeating here.
In the off season we all knew certain things going into the season.
1 The schedule was brutal.
2 We absolutely must stay healthy; we lacked and still lack depth.
3 We need more consistent play from the QB position.
4 The additions that were made to the D Line had to make our LBers better.
Then you do a mental check off of how that turned out?
Then you throw in this little POV.
Last season we scored points at a near record pace, it was highly unlikely that we would score points like we did last season this season, after all we had a much tougher schedule.
Then you factor in this as well. The defense playing against that same weak schedule last season, gave up points at nearly a record pace, again against a weak schedule. Then you factor in that we faced a much tougher schedule this season against better offenses and you begin to get the picture of a team that needs a lot of things to go just right and be extremely lucky to even come close to what they did the season before.
We needed every bounce to go our way, if we were to have any hope of approaching what we did last season. It honestly WAS there for all to see. I plead guilty I drank the Cool Aid, but the only way you could have believed that with all the things we needed to fall into place that we would win is solely based on the effects from the Cool Aid.
In other words we refused to believe what we knew. We needed to hit not just home runs with the guys we brought in but we had to see the guys that we already had here play better as well. I have always said this good players always show up. How many good players do we have? How many more do we need? We are close I believe that but without adding some solid depth and some solid starters no matter the coach will continue to struggle, when faced with good/great football teams, or a schedule like the one we faced this year.
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Quote:
Look at other guys who drop a good number of passes... Do they get benched? I.E. Terrel Owens? No.
Wait,, are you comparing TO to BE? Yikes..... BE has had one,,, count it,,,ONE good season, One decent season cut short by injury and one HORRIBLE season..
I totally hate Owens.. loud mouth team killer.... but damn, the man knows how to catch a damn ball. BE isn't in his class as a receiver.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Simply put, RAC had never been a HC. He made "rookie" HC mistakes in game-day coaching, personnel, and coordinator selection. Early on, those mistakes were forgivable.
In year 4, they aren't, and there's no reason to give a guy in that scenario a 5th, not when his best by most accounts isn't good enough.
It's time to move on.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
It's time to move on.
I think it's past time, but I will settle for that.
Get rid of the guy.....PLEASE
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Toad,, you know I've been in lockstep with you defending the need to stay the course with RAC.. But like you and (choke, cough, spittle, awk awk) Peen, I agree, it's time to move on.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"It behooves me to read a post where the writer says that they believe we are but 2 or 3 players away, but then goes on to say that we should da could da. Kind of doesn’t make sense or does it?"
Don't let it Behoove you too much. The 2-3 players away to me mean bringing this team to a dynasty caliber..."Dynasty Caliber" means going to the playoff every season - what they do when they get there...is another thing as it is like another season...format...One n Done.
But with all those things that you stated about Health, Schedule, etc...yes many posters including myself stated several times - We were not as good as everyone thinks last season....and we are not as bad as everyone (meaning the Negative/Realistic - self acclaimed posters) thought.
This was cause we had a natural maturation of young players plus the additions of a bonafide DL in Corey and Rogers. Some matured some didn't...I thought BE, JoeT and KW2 would have gotten a lot better than what they produced this season.
But we saw DQ, Pool and I think EW n McD at the Corners improved.
And the negative coaching...cause I've backed the staff and still do in most cases but when you step back and look at the season disappointments and with me its nothing to do with TO's and 2 minute drills and punting decisions. Its getting the team prepared MENTALLY to WIN that seemed to be missing most of all. One other thing that kills me. After the Denver game we go and Work on Tackling...and not the physical aspect where we would endanger injuries...but on angles and wrapping - And then we improved, greatly. Well that upsets me cause that tells me the staff DIDN'T do that all year, WHY? How many other little things not brought to our attention effected how this team played????
As much as logic told us that this season was going to be tough. It wasn't anywhere near as tough as I thought. Denver I thought would be a much tougher team...when we faced them they were as low as they got. Jaguars I thought would be tougher...they were not. Of course the Gaints game - WOW. Dallas I didn't expect much cause they have always came on strong (most of their negatives have been in the end of the season) in the beginning and us notoriously slow.
Steelers 10-6...a game we should have won. And that was with them strong and us still handling injuries. Colts - not having the OL that Manning is use to and we know how dependent the O is to the OL. Texans a bad team. Redskins not that good and we shoulda won that one. They aren't a better TEAM than us.
But as the season developed the "TOUGH" schedule still became One Game at a Time affair and we were in all those games. With better motivation, and Coaching as in what I brought up prior regarding the Tackling ( and we don't know what else?). We could have won a lot of those game which we lost...and be in the playoffs - DESPITE our Injuries DESPITE our Schedule.
That is the jist of it. JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Poser
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I'm sorry, Pit, but just because the players aren't playing WELL, doesn't mean they're not motivated. RAC has motivated this team. I've seen people many times erroneously say that the team came out "flat". That's not true. The players are, many times, too fired up. Look at the effort the D gave last week. The players are motivated. Execution doesn't equal motivation.
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Quote:
I'm sorry, Pit, but just because the players aren't playing WELL, doesn't mean they're not motivated.
Well IF that's the case, they are hiding it VERY well!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I disagree. As I stated, I've noticed that at times they're TOO fired up.
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We'll just have to agree to disagree here Coach.
I've seen guys not even TRYING a legit. tackling technique. Witnessed players being lathargic. Some basicly taking plays off. Yet there they run out as starters week in and week out.
Blowing third and fourth quarter leads by not showing a sense of fire nor urgency on the field.
Sure, that's my perspective from what I see and nothing more. But my eyes are not decieving me. So while we disagree, I just can't quite ignore what I've seen for myself.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I guess my comments went straight bye, sorry for that.
If we had been able to win against the schedule we had we would be a dynasty. The fact that we didn't does say as you point out that we aren't quite there. And we lack the talent to clear that hurdle. Listen to any coach they all say the same thing. All NFL teams have talent, the difference in winning and losing is often one, two, or three plays. When your consistantly short one, two, three plays, it becomes crystal clear your not as good as the teams your playing, period. And that you lack a player, 2 players, 3 players from winning. Talent wins in most if not all instances.
You make good points about the tackling thing. But God almighty you watch the pressors as much as the next guy I suppose, thats all I have been hearing from RAC for the past 4 years. Use proper technique, proper leverage, poper angles, do your job. Sorry but for as much as he has talked about these issues I find it hard to believe that he isn't teaching it. Maybe he left out the part about take the proper angle, use the proper technique and should have reminded the player that the purpose of all of that was so you could get to the ball and TACKLE when you get there.
But I actually think it's the players that need to step it up, they aren't being taught to wiff on tackles, their not being tought to take bad angles to the ball, their doing that all on their own. You don't go from being compitent to incompitent unless you ignore what you have been taught. And after 4 years of beating the same drum, they all should understand their roll, and they should be able to tackle. Tackling actually is something players should have learned in Pop Warner. You coach the little devils and I'm pretty sure it is near the top of the list of things you teach. When a player gets to the pro level you shouldn't have to take him back to his Pop Warner days and teach him to tackle of all things.
At the point a player reaches the pro's he should be ready to refine and improve his game not learn to tackle. It's the player and it actually speaks to his desire to improve and do his JOB, which last time I checked tackling for a defensive player is football 101. Ground zero so to speak, if you can't or don't want to tackle then why in hell are you playing football of all sports?
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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