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Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks" by picking apart his mistakes and claiming quinn is so much better, I'll just say one more thing:
I know folks have basically thrown DA on the scrap pile, but one more thought. If DA played as well as he did last year this year, would you all still be foaming for Quinn?
30+ TD passes. Think about it.
I think about it every time he makes another mistake,...  But all kidding aside, he's our QB, again, so I'm just gonna take it one game at a time and hope for the best. I also will not yell "raw deal" if he wins 5, RAC keeps his job, we make the playoffs, and Quinn is STILL named "the man" come camp next year. Until we can establish a clock managing run game and keep the defense off the field, who the QB is isn't a hill of beans right now,....
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I do find this decision to play him disturbing.
And the pulling of BQ was not to save the kid from a bad day due to an injury...it was thrown in there...but then you don't name the kid the starter after you pull him due to an injury??? RAC had no idea that the injury was effecting BQs play.
If this was RAC being wise and sage...then he would not have started BQ this past game at all!
As much as I've hammered RAC for the past two seasons, I'm going to bat for him here.
The only excuse RAC had is if........IF........Quinn's finger had gotten worse and it was effecting his play. If RAC lucked into the fact that Quinn's finger was getting worse, then lucky he is, but you nor I can know for sure. I do point the finger at RAC for saying another reason why he pulled him was because of ineffective play. Once you make the move to Quinn you STAY with Quinn. No excuses.
I can give RAC an ounce of slack because Quinn's finger was apparently getting worse. The rest of RAC's excuse.......I'm not buying it.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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And Anderson played ... of (IIRC) zero games with our starters at TE and WR.
It is what it is. We can opine and predict what woulda, coulda, and/or shoulda happened .... but in the end, all we have to look at is what actually took place on the field. On the field, Quinn had one really good games ..... one 14-36 performance that had some people wetting their pants ..... and a pretty bad final game. If you choose to believe that Quinn will be spectacular based on that .... that's fine. I want to see more before I see him annointed savior and our only other viable option is shipped out of town.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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I want people to read this report, and tell me what their first reaction is.....
Quote:
Sportsline.com
BEREA, Ohio -- Brady Quinn's opportunity came and went in a hurry. He waited his whole life to make the NFL and then 1½ years more for his first start for the Cleveland Browns.
And then, it was gone -- a three-and-out more painful than any before.
Quinn's season ended on Wednesday after just three starts, done in by a broken right index finger that he tried to play with last week and may now require surgery.
Given the options of resting or an operation last week, Quinn could have sat out Sunday's game against Houston. But the second-year QB chose to play and did more damage to his finger.
"I knew that was a consequence if I went in and played," Quinn said Wednesday. "That was something that I was willing to risk. If I had a chance to do it over, I would do it again."
Quinn, who threw an interception on his last pass of the season, must now decide whether to have surgery or have his finger immobilized in a splint. Browns coach Romeo Crennel said doctors want Quinn to make up his mind within a week. Either way, it's at least a six-week process and Quinn won't play again this season.
"It's frustrating," said the former Notre Dame star, who broke the tip of his finger and sustained tendon damage in his second start on Nov. 17 at Buffalo. "I can't begin to tell you. I'm hurting right now because I love to play the game. I wish I could be with my teammates. I feel bad for the fans because I really wanted to be out there and continue to play and continue to grow in this league.
"Hopefully, this will allow me to grow stronger and something good will come from this."
With Quinn out, Derek Anderson is back as Cleveland's starting QB.
But even if he leads the Browns to a 5-0 mark, Anderson's days in an orange helmet appear numbered.
In a stunning comment, Crennel, who may not be back next season, said Quinn will be his starter going into training camp in 2009.
"I had planned to go with Brady to be the quarterback," Crennel said. "When he comes back, he's going to be the quarterback. Quinn is the starter."
Crennel then became agitated when he was asked if he would change his mind if Anderson finished strong.
"D.A. was the starter, you guys hated him," Crennel said to reporters. "Quinn goes in and plays and now you're telling me if D.A. lights it up, you want him to be the starter. I have decided that Quinn is going to be the starter. I'm sorry if you don't like that."
Anderson lost his job to Quinn three weeks ago, when Crennel benched the Pro Bowler because of inconsistent play in the season's first eight games. Anderson played in the fourth quarter last week after Crennel benched Quinn, who threw two interceptions and was generally ineffective in a 16-6 loss to the Texans.
Before last week's game, Quinn consulted with team doctors, along with famed orthopedist Dr. James Andrews. Quinn was presented with three options: keep playing, put his finger in the splint or have surgery.
"It was a collaborative effort going into it," he said. "(Andrews) obviously talked about the course of action he wanted to take going into the game. That was something that was my decision to go ahead and play. I wanted to do the best I could to try and make the best of it."
However, when it came down to whether he would suit up or not, Quinn said he made the call.
"It was my decision in the end," he said. "It wasn't anyone else's, so it didn't matter what anyone else thought but me."
Following the game, Quinn refused to blame the injury for his poor performance -- 8-for-18 for 94 yards and a 21.3 passer rating -- and he didn't mention anything about his tendon. However, he later said he had trouble spinning the ball and Crennel revealed the additional damage to Quinn's finger on Monday.
Quinn was asked if the finger affected his ability to throw.
"I'm not one to make excuses out there," he said. "Clearly, I wouldn't be in this position right now if it didn't affect me to some degree and that's really all I'm going to say."
Quinn's injury is just the latest episode in a tumultuous season for the Browns, who are excepted to have an equally turbulent offseason.
Crennel's job is jeopardy and general manager Phil Savage could be on thin ice after sending a profane e-mail to a fan last week. On Tuesday, owner Randy Lerner said he will wait until January before deciding the future of Crennel and Savage.
By benching Anderson earlier this season, the Browns made it clear Quinn is their future quarterback. However, they only had three games to evaluate him and now must hope they made the right pick and that his finger recovers completely. Anderson is due a $5 million roster bonus in March, making it unlikely both will be with Cleveland next season.
Crennel said he has seen enough to think Quinn, who finished 45-of-89 for 518 yards, will be a legitimate starter.
"I'm impressed with what the kid has done on the football field, off the football field, the way he handles himself in the situations that he's gone in and the way he's handle them, the way he's run the team," Crennel said. "I like the kid a lot."
Is it my imagination, or are the timelines and stories no longer consistent?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Too much double-talk coming out of Berea for my liking.
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That's what I thought as well. Sounds like Romeo is becoming a bit more surly.
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Hey EO, thanks for responding I appreciate your comments. I guess I'll respond to what you said. Quote:
"Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks"
You mean you don't know yet that he sucks? 
I still maintain that he's still young and learning, it's too early to determine that he sucks. Just like it's too early to say Quinn is the best. They're both young and have lots to learn. Quinn does have the support of the fans, which I'm sure helps his confidence. DA was a captain, wasn't he? So, i'm guessing that means the players supported him.
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last year as this year...lol  You mean his first 8 games in 07 when all of a sudden the headlights hit that poor dear and he :GULP: realized he was the starter...lol
Check out his play the 2nd half of last season...and then the first half of this season....There is absolutely nothing to be impressive about.
Just the fact that you have to LIE and state 30+ TD passes - make you UNWORTHY TO DEADBATE...how can I win with a Maker UPPER 
EO, chill out. I've been posting for a long time. I don't have a beef with you or anybody. This is just a freaking message board where folks can talk. I don't understand why folks take stuff so personal. If you ignore me, cool. I've always found you to be a good poster, so I most likely won't ignore your posts.
I DID mess up and should of double checked. Math is hard. I said 30, when it was 29, I made a mistake. Please accept my apology.
It's not my intention to show BQ in a bad light. What I want to show is that DA Did accomplish something good last year. Now I know that last year doesn't seem to mean much to some folks, which is fine. To me it does mean something. We caught a glimpse of it again with the Giants game. I know DA has his Jeckle/hyde thing, and yeah, it does suck. However I don't think he's the finished product that he is made out to be. All i'm saying is 29 TDs and 3787 yards passing is impressive. I'll also say that DA isn't the only QB in the league that gets bailed out by his receivers. When indy was playing pitt didn't Wayne get a TD on a tipped ball? This year, yeah DA hasn't done so well. He's really missing JJ, who always seemed to be in the right place last year. Edwards, well, he's in off in a not so happy place. We also seem to be having pass protection problems, which is throwing things off. IMHO, which you don't share (which is fine, btw), he can still grow.
In closing, I liked your post was good because it show me your using facts which is more then anybody else did. Thanks man. I didn't intend it to be a  I like to talk, especially when I can learn something. In my line of work, you learn a lot from folks that don't share your point of view. If you don't learn to look at problems differently, your more likely to get stuck in the mud. I always have to challenge how I view something if I want to grow. You don't have to agree, which is fine. All I ask is that folks use facts and not made up stuff. You did. thanks dude.
Take care  I wasn't intending to cause a
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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i thought he went to andrews after the game...
somethings not right....i can see quinn wanting to play no matter what....he's certainly waited a long time for it...
wonder if the browns doc's said he was fine...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Romeo seems to be showing some fustration to the media, which is weird. He has a point, I bet he gets asked if the backup will be the starter every week 
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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Quote:
i thought he went to andrews after the game...
somethings not right....i can see quinn wanting to play no matter what....he's certainly waited a long time for it...
wonder if the browns doc's said he was fine...
Yup. I thought the story was that they went to Andrews after the game.
Either the reporter has his/her facts wrong, or some combination of the Browns and/or RAC is lying........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Every time new information comes out, I'm forced to rethink my position on all this. Why? Because only the most inventive conspiracy theorist would have been able to concoct this mass of stupidity that epitomizes the term "Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction."
On the 20th, we had this: Quote:
Crennel said he did not consider sitting Quinn and playing deposed starter Derek Anderson because "the [hand] specialist said he can play."
The coach acknowledged a risk of more damage to the finger "if it gets hit again."
"If it gets worse, then something else might have to be done about it. Or he might have to wear the splint all the time, or we might have to sit him," Crennel said.
Just yesterday, we had this:
Quote:
BEREA, Ohio -- Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn will have his injured right index finger examined by noted orthopedist Dr. James Andrews...."I decided to make the change to try to get the spark," Crennel said. "Some of that had to do with some misreads, some of it had to do with my knowledge of the finger situation and so I decided to make the change."
So today we learn this: Quote:
Before last week's game, Quinn consulted with team doctors, along with famed orthopedist Dr. James Andrews. Quinn was presented with three options: keep playing, put his finger in the splint or have surgery.
"It was a collaborative effort going into it," he said. "[Andrews] obviously talked about the course of action he wanted to take going into the game. That was something that was my decision to go ahead and play. I wanted to do the best I could to try and make the best of it."
However, when it came down to whether he would suit up or not, Quinn said he made the call.
"It was my decision in the end," he said. "It wasn't anyone else's, so it didn't matter what anyone else thought but me."
So let me get all this straight.............
Crennel actually knew that Quinn was examined by Andrews, was told that it could get worse, and chose to start Quinn in a year where we had virtually no playoff chance despite the medical risks. However, we have Quinn saying it was his choice and nobody else's opinion mattered.
Ya'know, I didn't need any more reason to want RAC fired, but I feel as though I just got another one. You have to protect a player when that player is too young and too stoopid to protect himself. 
Now it's possible that Quinn is talking out of his ass, in which case someone needs to check his ego at the front door. I get the impression that Quinn's ego is as big as RAC's belly based on many of the things I've seen him say. I'm beginning to think he has a SuperMan Complex which needs to be shut down. He doesn't have to win the games by himself, which was part of the problem for him in college because he did. If he continues to carry that attitude as a pro, it'll end up losing him games instead of winning them.
Setting Quinn's Alpha aside, the more I read about this story and RAC, the more it sucks and smells like something which crawled out of the sea and died. 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Toad, I have a very different opinion of this whol matter... I'm not trying to start rumors, merely speculation on my part, BUT... Benching BQ: 1) RAC is trying to save his job. Sunday's call to bench BQ and try and get a "spark" out of DA tells me that RAC trust DA MORE with the task of saving his job. 2) We are not sure RAC really wanted to switch in the first place since he stuck it out with DA until the season was all but lost. Another reason to doubt he wants BQ in the game when his job is on the line. 3) If the finger was REALLY an issue, why was BQ surprised that he was "on such a short leash"? Why not mention he was having issues with his finger on his throwing hand? My theory, RAC wants DA to lead the charge in trying to save his job. Quinn being a team player decides to withdraw while he CONSIDERS surgery on his finger... Meanwhile he is promised the Starting role out of the gate in 09 with a clean slate in the W-L columns. This results in RAC's plea to have HIS MAN (DA) lead the way while hopefully restoring some trade value to his own status. This gives the disgruntled DA a chance to win a starting role elsewhere and the opportunity for RAC to keep his job IF he pulls out at least 3 more wins. At the end of the day everybody gets a favorable deal and a chance to control their own destiny. RAC gets the nod from Phil and Randy to do the deal with Quinn and DA as a now or never last chance... BQ is guaranteed 09, DA gets his comeback shot... everybody is happy. I'd also take odds that BE and KW2 will be given a similar walking papers / new contract situational adjustment. Wouldn't be at all surprised if their play suddenly becomes stellar. IMHO, football politics (and terrible Coaching) created the teams lack luster performances and RAC's only prayer is to use football politics to save his arse. Winslow wanted a new contract. I can't remember, did BE get a big new contract? These guys think they're superstars being paid like rookies. HOPEFULLY, I'm way off the mark. BUT this all seems a little fishy to me. How does a team that played on MNF against the Giants and handed them they're arses, look so bad against the Texans? Answer - Attitudes. You don't just leave your talent at home all of a sudden. BE can catch like an all time pro when his mind is right. KW2 will play through the pain when he WANTS to win. If these two are ON, the DA is ON. If DA is ON, teams MUST respect the deep threat... this allows JL to gain 5 yards a carry.................... I sound like I'm running on and on BUT I think this is what RAC is trying to do to save his job. JMHO and conspiracy theory... 
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Wow EO who poo pooed in your punch bowl dude? Why all the venom in your post? What happened to the respectful and polite EO ? It isn’t my problem but wow!
You mean you don't know yet that he sucks?
I do now after all you said so, I know you are down the middle and call it how YOU SEE IT !!
Check out his play the 2nd half of last season...and then the first half of this season....There is absolutely nothing to be impressive about.
The 2nd half of most QB’s that play in cold weather drop in Nov and Dec, unless of course you happen to be a dome QB playing in the north. Your right about the beginning of this season though, his play and the play of the entire team for that matter has left much to be desired. However, I think it’s imperative to emphizes entire team. DA didn’t dig this hole all by his self, he had plenty of help. So if your blaming the teams failors solely on DA then I think your not just wrong, but dead wrong.
I'll spell it out to you. NO QB can succeed in this NFL - the era that utilizes a pass as effective as a run regarding ball control and Moving the chains....NO QB can succeed with a completion pct of 55or less in passes in this 10 yard area. The norm is around 70% for the NFL QB....DA 50% and the norm is probably higher than what I"m stating. But you cannot succeed being that inaccurate with the short intermediate passes.
The simple answer here would be to ask for an explanation for the 10-5 record from last year. Not to mention the 29 TD and 19 INT , with 3700 + yards that DA did put up. I never thought that completion percentage was a valid stat, still don’t. Totals, wins, loses, and TD to Int ratio is far more important in my POV. I understand your argument I just don’t endorse it. DA, is different then most QB’s and a system that recognizes that and utilizes that will be better served. Lets put it this way you have said it, it’s not his strength, but then again he has other attributes that other QB’s don’t have as well. With his lowly completion percentage from a year ago the Browns did win 10.
My big problem with DA is his lack of consistency, not the length of his passes, or his completion percentage. I can even live with Mr. Hot Hot, and Mr Cold Cold, as long as Mr Hot Hot shows up every game. Few and I do mean few QB’s ever get in the Mr Hot Hot zone like DA can. God I wished that guy would show up for 2 quarters every game, I could actually live with that !!
As for BQ, he is a young QB that has been given his chance and due to injury he won’t be able to play the remainder of the season. I would never attempt to evaluate a QB based on 3 games, 2 of which he did have what turns out to be a sever index finger injury. In fact I praise the bee Jesus out of the guy for giving it a go. BQ has many many attributes that he brings to the table. I feel real good about his chances going forward to be a great NFL QB. Consistancy hopefully will be his greatest asset.
EO lighten up, be the old EO patient and respectful. Your best attribute, IMO
JMHO
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Crennel actually knew that Quinn was examined by Andrews, was told that it could get worse, and chose to start Quinn in a year where we had virtually no playoff chance despite the medical risks. However, we have Quinn saying it was his choice and nobody else's opinion mattered.
Ya'know, I didn't need any more reason to want RAC fired, but I feel as though I just got another one. You have to protect a player when that player is too young and too stoopid to protect himself.
I think you're reading it wrong....possibly.
The article at web page says that he is visiting Dr Andrews for a second opinion. You're quote from the 20th doesn't say he saw Andrews......it says he saw a specialist. The "consult" mentioned in your 3rd quote could have been a telephone or video conference with Dr Andrews and the first hand specialist, it doesn't necessarily mean he visited Andrews in person.
It says that they gave him the three options: play, splint it, surgery.
He's been wanting the job, waiting on the job, is a competitor.....of course he's going to want to play. I have no doubt if the doctors gave him and the coaching staff the 3 options they (coaches) all looked at Brady and said "What do YOU want to do?" Therefore the decision WAS ultimately his.
That's my guesstimate of the situation.
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Quote:
Quinn said he did not regret playing Sunday knowing there was a chance the injuries to his right index finger could worsen.
He said multiple hand specialists presented him with three options following examinations of X-rays taken following the original injury to the tip of the finger in the Buffalo game Nov. 17. He could play with pain, shut down his season and immobilize the finger in a splint for six weeks, or have surgery.
He chose to play. Even though surgery was a viable option, nobody in the Browns' organization demanded he sit out to avoid long-term risks to the finger on his throwing hand.
"Why would I ever regret playing?" Quinn said. "I knew [further damage] was a consequence if I went in and played. It was something that I was willing to risk. If I had a chance to do it over, I would do it again."
Looks like they knew the risks and ignored them. Koudos to Brady for wanting to play but at some point the organization needs to step in and say no. It's a moot point now as there appears to be no long term effects, other than BQ done for the year.
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Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks" by picking apart his mistakes and claiming quinn is so much better, I'll just say one more thing:
I know folks have basically thrown DA on the scrap pile, but one more thought. If DA played as well as he did last year this year, would you all still be foaming for Quinn?
30+ TD passes. Think about it.
No and if Tim Couch (Yes I just went there) threw 30TD's a season, he'd still be our QB, What's your point?
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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"As much as I've hammered RAC for the past two seasons, I'm going to bat for him here."
Gee whiz what a surprise...you mean I said black and obvious you got to come back with - NO ITS WHITE...lol
He did utter the words spark...a Needed spark and there in lies the proof of the pudding.
If it was the finger...he would have came right out and STATE..."I pulled him cause it was obvious the finger was effecting his throws" - did you hear that from him...NAH.
And you want to praise him as a coach for doing that.
Well I've stuck up for RAC all year. And I'm telling you as a coach if he had the slightest reservations about the finger...HE WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED HIM AT ALL!
That is what a Good coach...a Coach that I respected would have done. Not let him play and make it worse and then you got the gall to praise him????
Oh I forgot - cause I didn't 
You know you don't have to be my Yang all the time.
Oh and Happy Thanksgiving all!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
Well I've stuck up for RAC all year. And I'm telling you as a coach if he had the slightest reservations about the finger...HE WOULD NOT HAVE PLAYED HIM AT ALL!
That is what a Good coach...a Coach that I respected would have done. Not let him play and make it worse and then you got the gall to praise him????
Unless he still thought with the bum finger and having asked BQ.......he still felt that gave us the best chance to compete and win. Then when it was obvious that it didn't after the 2 picks, he changed to provide a "spark."
Not that mystical to me........
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Quote:
Quote:
Since nobody wants to debate except by just saying "DA sucks" by picking apart his mistakes and claiming quinn is so much better, I'll just say one more thing:
I know folks have basically thrown DA on the scrap pile, but one more thought. If DA played as well as he did last year this year, would you all still be foaming for Quinn?
30+ TD passes. Think about it.
No and if Tim Couch (Yes I just went there) threw 30TD's a season, he'd still be our QB, What's your point?
Since I was called a liar for making a mistake, I'll rephrase to say 29 TD passes.
All i'm saying is that's a lot for anybody, even if your name is p. manning. (NO HE IS NOT AS GOOD AS MANNING AND I WON'T EVEN SUGGEST IT). I don't understand all the haters on this board, the guy put up dang good numbers and folks wanted to throw him away at the end of the best season we've had in a long time. A 10-5 record, when the media didn't give them a chance. DA has had a BAD year, nobody can gloss over that. He just needs time to develop like Quinn will. I'm hoping that folks don't call for Quinn's head when he makes his mistakes, we aren't patient with QBs by the lake.
Looking at things, it looks like Quinn is the guy for next year, which is fine. I'll cheer for him, just like I cheer for all the other players. As folks mentioned, wins are the most important stat. I'm sure Quinn will also get his share of wins down the stretch.
In closing, I'm just asking that folks look at everything, not just what makes one QB look good/bad in a civil way that's all. No personal attacks, no making things up, just taking football, like your hanging with your buds somewhere. EO posted reasons and analysis for why he doesn't believe DA is good. I applaud him for taking the time to construct an informative post. I didn't agree with the venom, but at least there where reasons and not 'because I said so...'
take care.
We're trying to throw the ball downfield and he checked the ball down to Trent Richardson and the Indians on the choice.
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"It says that they gave him the three options: play, splint it, surgery"
Just for own curiosity.
How does a person become a "hand specialist"
I could do it.The diagnosis,yes,no,maybe.
Or today,turkey,ham,or both.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Shep, here's what I'm going off of: Quote:
Before last week's game, Quinn consulted with team doctors, along with famed orthopedist Dr. James Andrews.
That was from an article as seen on sportsline.com.
I believe you think I'm confusing second opinion with second visit. That isn't the situation. The above quote is stating quite clearly that Quinn consulted with team doctors and James Andrews. In fact, if you follow Quinn's statements, it appears quite clearly he lays out as fact that Andrews had a plan in place for the finger before he played this past week.
Now, that's why I put the disclaimer out there that it's possible the reporter had their facts out of line, but if they didn't, I think RAC made a grevious error.
If the story goes that RAC was told it was unlikely more damage could be done to the finger, then starting Quinn isn't an issue with me. However, going off of the aforementioned stories, I'd find it very hard to believe it'd make any sense to march Quinn out there knowing that more serious damage could be done if the finger was "just hit" since that tends to happen to QB's 
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
You know you don't have to be my Yang all the time.
So I'm going to make a false statement, one that goes against what I believe, just so I can disagree with you. Got it
On the subject at hand, I went to bat for Crennel in opposition of your belief because the information presented to us before was that there wasn't any more damage that could be done to the finger.
Before you made that last post, I stated I'd had to change my stance again, because new information came out which indicated the story had changed.
So, assuming that THIS version of the story is correct (which is a big assumption at this point since nobody can get their crap together) I actually agree with you by saying Crennel made a huge mistake. You'll find that stance prior to your last post.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Quote:
I believe you think I'm confusing second opinion with second visit.
No, that's not the case. I was rushed with my first response to ya and thought I was clear but I guess not, my bad. I will break my thoughts down more in depth when I have some more time.....and I keep forgetting to PM ya something as well and I only mention it within this post as a reminder for me to send it when I have more time as well. 
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Actually, no, you were clear. It was I who was rushed, trying to read it while on the phone with an idiot at work who doesn't know how to use our computer systems.  That's my fault for short-reading without taking the time to absorb it.
I do understand that they could have consulted Andrews in some form outside of interpersonal communications. I did even before I made that specific post. My problem with that specific revolves around this question: If we're going to get him involved at all, shouldn't that be a red-flag that the problem is potentially serious enough to warrant caution?
It's my belief that if such an injury is that dicey, there isn't any sense in marching Quinn back out there.
I'll tell ya man, as I sort out the twists and turns of this scenario, I can't find one that warrants sending Quinn out to play. I get that he wants to play so badly it hurts, but he's just a kid. He doesn't have enough experience to know when he should play and when he shouldn't. That's why I'm putting the blame on RAC for a bad call. I also can't fathom why we'd leave it up to Quinn to play if we knew that this thing was kinda serious.
There's nothing sensible about all this to me, not when I try and tie it all together.
I get Quinn wants to play.
I get RAC wanting to keep him under center.
I get the involvement of Andrews.
What I don't get is how the doc could say the potential for serious injury was more than remote, yet RAC let's him go out there and play.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Legend
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Quote:
How does a person become a "hand specialist?"
Easy... make it to puberty, and do so without a girlfriend.
...or so I've heard....
"too many notes, not enough music-"
#GMStong
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Sounds like testimony to me.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Quote:
I also can't fathom why we'd leave it up to Quinn to play if we knew that this thing was kinda serious.
For me it still boils down to them (docs) giving him the 3 options. One of them was to play.....this isn't like the S Merriman debacle where he kept visiting doctors trying to get an opinion he liked.
If the medicos hadn't said "play" as one of the 3 options do you think they would have left the ultimate decision in the youngster's hands??
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Legend
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I am not sure of the timeline on when he actually got hurt and when he actually had it looked at by more than a trainer treating it like a sprained finder or torn nail or some other minor nick.
I don't think he was whisked off for MRI's after that first game.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If the story goes that RAC was told it was unlikely more damage could be done to the finger, then starting Quinn isn't an issue with me.
From Quinn's words and Rac..Quinn felt he could play and the doctors told Rac he was cleared to play..but maybe they said there could be further damage if he takes a hit..which even a person off the street could reason was a huge possibility...
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Quote:
If the medicos hadn't said "play" as one of the 3 options do you think they would have left the ultimate decision in the youngster's hands??
I'm leaning towards a young kid shooting off his mouth because he's trying to hard to prove himself
The reality is that he was given the option of playing if he could stand the pain and remain effective.
Where I still have a problem with this comes down to what now appears to be a situation where they said he could do serious damage to the finger if he played. I believe that was a poor decision by Crennel. In a lost season, it doesn't make a ton of sense to risk the kids future health.
Now if all these reports turn out to be false, and the local docs or even Andrews said he'd be ok, then I can't blame RAC. However, if it's proven that Quinn was more at risk than originally reported, I've got an issue with that.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I understand your point and don't disagree with it......UNLESS as I said the docs gave everyone involved the 3 options which is more than implied consent. If the docs said "play" was one of the options and BQ said he could go, I don't fault RAC one iota. Quote:
Where I still have a problem with this comes down to what now appears to be a situation where they said he could do serious damage to the finger if he played. I believe that was a poor decision by Crennel. In a lost season, it doesn't make a ton of sense to risk the kids future health.
Here's where I think you're reaching.....everyone is at risk when they step onto the field. Not gonna elaborate any more cuz you know where I'm coming from.....
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***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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Browns' Quinn to have surgery on injured finger CLEVELAND (AP) - Cleveland Browns quarterback Brady Quinn will undergo surgery on his right index finger, a procedure that will require up to 10 weeks of recovery time. Quinn, who has been weighing his options for the past week, will have the operation in Alabama on Wednesday. He broke the tip of his finger and sustained tendon damage on his throwing hand in a Nov. 17 game against Buffalo. He played the next week against Houston and made his injury worse. Doctors will insert a pin into Quinn's finger to stabilize the bone and tendon. Quinn started three games for the Browns, who also lost quarterback Derek Anderson to a season-ending knee injury. http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8880828/Browns%27-Qu...ry-on-injured-finger
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Alabama would suggest that would be Dr. James Andrews facility. Either Andrews or one of his proteges.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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The further away from Cleveland the better.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
The further away from Cleveland the better.
no kidding. go to arizona to recover brady! get well soon. 
A man is not old until regrets take the place of dreams.
John Barrymore
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Quote:
no kidding. go to arizona to recover brady! get well soon.
Thats were J.J. is heading.....
Glad Brady is having sugury, Seems whenever it suppose to heal normally, come training camp something is always wrong, or is that just in baseball.
Last edited by ClayM57; 12/02/08 04:46 PM.
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Posted December 02, 2008 03:26 PM http://www.cleveland.com/brownsbeat/index.ssf/2008/12/c...s_sign_quarterb.htmlCleveland Browns sign quarterback by Tony Grossi Tuesday December 02, 2008, 3:02 PM In a day of quarterback news for the Browns, the team today: * Announced that Brady Quinn will have surgery tomorrow to repair a chip fracture and ligament damage to his right index finger. Quinn will have the surgery done in Birmingham, Ala., by hand specialist Dr. Thomas Hunt. The club said that Quinn should make a full recovery in six to 10 weeks. * Signed Bruce Gradkowski, who played two years with Tampa Bay and was out of football this season. Gradkowski, who played at Toledo, had nine touchdowns and 10 interceptions in two seasons with the Bucs and a passer rating of 65.0. * Formally placed Derek Anderson on injured reserve. Anderson is out for the year with a torn medial collateral ligament in his left knee. The Browns also re-signed receiver Steve Sanders to the practice squad.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Quinn out for the rest of the
season
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