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I'd say start Stallworth as quarterback, that way he can be a part of the offense.
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Best of luck to ya DA - wherever that may be.
SIGN GRADKOWSKI !!!
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Never in my wildest dreams did I believe that DA would garner us a 1st and a 3rd. I applauded PS for getting DA re-signed, because I thought that DA had a shot to build off what he did last season. I was wrong in hindsight we should have traded one of the 2 QB's. It wasn't because the 2 couldn't co-exist, they were fine with each other, but the fans never would leave it alone, and let it play out. From the onset of the season and even before DA was a marked man in Cleveland, after all he stood in the way of BQ. He never had a chance. Fans said that he would receive their full support with baited breath. At the end of the day they wanted DA to fail, and he did.
As for DA's trade value, I could be totally wrong but DA was never a 1 and 3, perhaps a 2, and I still think he has that value. As much as anything DA's failors where due to not just his own poor performance but those around him. That won't get swept under the rug by teams looking for a QB, like it has been by the fans of the Browns, they will take a look at everything, and from there decide whether DA is worth a pick. I would say a 2, and I wouldn't trade him for less salary, and roster bonus money to the side.
JMHO
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I'm just not convinced that the injury is that costly when looking ahead to next year. DA will be fine (physically). Why not bring DA back? Money? I don't think that is a good enough reason. DA can play an average game, and occasionally an above average game when the rest of his team is also playing well. If memory serves, I believe some teams have won the Super Bowl with this formula. BQ should be fine (physically). BQ is still unproven as far as I'm concerned, but it appears that he can also manage an effective game. What is costly are the holes that we still need to fill at line backer, WR, OL, and maybe even TE. What is costly is the inconsistency of both players and coaches on both sides of the ball.
I say bring both QB's back and let them fight it out for the job. The best man starts. No matter who the starter is I think we are sitting in a good position, as both seem capable of leading a good TEAM to wins. Now, lets fill the holes and complete this team by addressing what is truly costly.
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Best of luck to ya DA - wherever that may be.
The question is, if there's a regime change, who's to say the guy coming in won't want to keep DA around? Whether he stays or goes may not be left up to Savage.
Hey, I like speculating as much as anybody. But right now, it's a pretty tough thing to do since we really have no idea who will be in charge next year.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Considering we haven't seen enough from Quinn to say one way or another if he's the guy, I certainly wouldn't get rid of Anderson. Even if we make it very clearly Quinn is the starter going in, there isn't going to be a better backup QB in the league for this team than Anderson.
As for his knee hurting his trade value, that's a crock. The MCL isn't a big deal, yet even if it were, a team is going to look at Anderson's chart then have him checked out. If his knee is wrecked, he won't be playing at all. If it's fine, it won't be an issue.
It's important for the fans to know that keeping Anderson doesn't mean a controversy, or that we haven't chosen a QB and are waffling back and forth.
Examine the Bears for a moment. They kept handing the job to Grossman over and over and over again, relegating Orton to backup time after time. Yet three years later, Grossman proved to be a bum, and Orton turned into a viable starter. There's never been a controversy there. That can easily happen in Cleveland. Quinn, as the golden boy, has unyielding support, but if he flames out, suddenly there's Anderson ready to come back.
It makes plenty of sense to trade Anderson, and it makes plenty of sense to keep him.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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This is going to shock the hell out of you, but I kind of agree with you.
Often times the reported QB contraversy is far more among the fan base than the coaching staff or FO.
I'm not sure with the history of the DA/BQ thing that it would work out. But like I said, if a new regime is put in charge, we really have no idea one way or the other how this will play out.
And one other note of concern is their contrasting styles. The Orton/Grossman example you cited works. Both QB's have similar styles of play.
But the styles of BQ and DA are different as night and day. Actually, from what I've been hearing, Gradkowski and BQ are closer to Orton/Grossman that BQ/DA are.
Not that I'm advocating that. But it would make relative sense to have two QB's whose style compliment each other so your O remains relativly stable IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I've always been of the opinion that styles don't mean as much when you're talking about the differences being one with a bit more mobility and one with a stronger arm.
Teams keep the same plays in the book in that scenario. They just rep different ones throughout the week.
Where contrasting styles become a problem is when you go from a right-handed guy to a left-handed one, or a pure-passer like Ryan to a guy like Vick. In our case, the differences are minimal.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Quinn is more mobile but doesn't have Anderson's arm. Yet Anderson ran the same type of passing game against the Colts that Quinn ran against the Donks. I've been waiting to see if anyone would mention that this week, but I couldn't wait any longer  It was all short drops and short throws. Both executed that dink/dunk offense well. Quinn had some boots mixed in, but that didn't cause the offense to sputter.
Nah Pit, I don't think there are enough differences in their game to cause a concern. That's a non-issue. The big issues in keeping both guys are money and a controversy.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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...I thought that DA had a shot to build off what he did last season. I was wrong in hindsight we should have traded one of the 2 QB's. It wasn't because the 2 couldn't co-exist, they were fine with each other, but the fans never would leave it alone, and let it play out. From the onset of the season and even before DA was a marked man in Cleveland, after all he stood in the way of BQ. He never had a chance. Fans said that he would receive their full support with baited breath. At the end of the day they wanted DA to fail, and he did.
...DA's failors where due to not just his own poor performance but those around him. That won't get swept under the rug by teams looking for a QB, like it has been by the fans of the Browns...
JMHO
BTTB
mine too 
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Once again Toad, I agree with you to an extent.
As you mentioned, BQ can role out and throw. Or, if the CB or LBer doesn't collapse toward Quinn, he can scramble pretty well. This adds a deminsion to your O that I would think a coach would want to keep in the game plan.
Variations of such type of plays using those skills requires TOTALY different blocking schemes for your OL. DA is a more pure pocket passer. As it stands, we have DA and BQ.
Even the TYPE of OL you need for these contrasting styles are different. Take Denver for example when Elway was QB and even for years afterwards. They had a more mobile, lighter type of OL that relied on speed and athletacism to pull and that could quickly get to the second level.
Where as a Drew Bledsoe needed more of the hog type variety of OL who could physicly keep a pocket in tact.
I just see it more of an issue of being able to run the same O consistantly no matter who ends up playing. And you did find "one example" of how DA played a game in which the signals were called very similar for both QB's.
But why have a such a strong armed QB if you're going to have him dink and dunk the whole game? And are you trying to say that DA is the type of QB who should be running that style of O to play to his skill set?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Considering we haven't seen enough from Quinn to say one way or another if he's the guy, I certainly wouldn't get rid of Anderson. Even if we make it very clearly Quinn is the starter going in, there isn't going to be a better backup QB in the league for this team than Anderson.
Examine the Bears for a moment. They kept handing the job to Grossman over and over and over again, relegating Orton to backup time after time. Yet three years later, Grossman proved to be a bum, and Orton turned into a viable starter. There's never been a controversy there. That can easily happen in Cleveland. Quinn, as the golden boy, has unyielding support, but if he flames out, suddenly there's Anderson ready to come back.
The problem with that logic, 'Toad, is that the Bears have a far different contract situation than we do. Neither Orton and Grossman were that expensive in previous years and this year, are playing this year on 1-year, $3M contracts that max out at $5M with incentives. That means that they're on the hook for a maximum of $8M for their quarterbacks and after the year, they can just extend their starter and either jettison the other or sign him to a backup's contract. Now, consider our situation.
Brady is on a base 5 year, $20M contract that receives a $11M incentive steroid injection if he plays 70% of the snaps in 2009 (would've also hit with 55% in both 2008 and 2009). DA is on a 3 year, $24M deal with a $5M roster bonus due this year. If you're talking about going into next year with Brady as your starter while still keeping DA, you're not only going to watch Quinn's contract explode, you're going to pay a $5M roster bonus to a backup.
Even if you got the crazy idea to start DA without giving Brady his shot, that 70% incentive trigger means Condon is going to be moving Brady to a team with a starting spot open faster than you can say "money grab". Brady was willing to wait 2 years to start but if anyone thinks he'll wait a 3rd while forfeiting a shot at $11M, they have another thing coming.
With Brady's $11M escalator and DA's huge $5M roster bonus both coming down in 2009, it's clear that the contracts were designed to have a decision between the two made after 2008. To delay the decision (or extend the indecision depending on your view) would make the cost of keeping both downright prohibitive to us improving other areas of weakness on the team.
Take that and add into it the fact that DA has absolutely had it with the fans and this city (not that I blame him at all) and I think you have very good reasons why DA has played his last snap in Cleveland.
We're... we're good?
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This adds a deminsion to your O that I would think a coach would want to keep in the game plan.
Without a doubt.
My "perfect QB" isn't the outdated "strong-armed pocket" type, but rather the Steve Young type. I'm a WCO guy, afterall, and favored guys that could move around and be quicker than guys like Anderson.
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Even the TYPE of OL you need for these contrasting styles are different. Take Denver for example when Elway was QB and even for years afterwards. They had a more mobile, lighter type of OL that relied on speed and athletacism to pull and that could quickly get to the second level.
Where as a Drew Bledsoe needed more of the hog type variety of OL who could physicly keep a pocket in tact.
We're just talking ball here, but that's probably more fun than talking about the Browns right now *L* but I don't necessarily agree with that.
Having quick linemen means far more to the run game than the passing game as it involves the types of run plays, not the pass protections.
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I just see it more of an issue of being able to run the same O consistantly no matter who ends up playing.
That plays to making sure you have one guy playing QB instead of a carousel (sp?). Quinn can make almost all the throws that Anderson makes, and though Anderson can't run naked boots nearly as well, the offense does have those plays in there. They just aren't used as much.
It's more about having the same guy running the offense every week.
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But why have a such a strong armed QB if you're going to have him dink and dunk the whole game? And are you trying to say that DA is the type of QB who should be running that style of O to play to his skill set?
To answer the first question, there are numerous reasons. The first is that when playing teams that have strong rushers, they are neutralized by quick throws. The Colts game had numerous examples of that, as Anderson would have been hammered if he didn't get the ball out quickly or on his first read. The fumble happened because his first read was covered and he got smacked before he could even get the ball out to his second. The injury happened because of the same thing.
Another reason is because shorter throws are easier reads. The deeper down the field a guy has to go, the more complicated the reads tend to be.
As to your last question, I'm saying that Anderson or Quinn can run either type of offense, and that the gameplan on any given Sunday are more reflective of the scheme needed to have success against that perticular team. With teams that have great pass rushers, the ball has to come out quicker. Teams that are small and quick need to be manhandled, and are less-likely to be fooled by misdirection plays. Teams that are bigger and slower can't be moved as easily, and can be had by misdirection plays.
I believe that both guys can run the same offense, though certain plays .....ummm....play stronger to their individual strengths.
Gotta go muscle my way through the mall, Pit. *L*
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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With Brady's $11M escalator and DA's huge $5M roster bonus both coming down in 2009, it's clear that the contracts were designed to have a decision between the two made after 2008. To delay the decision (or extend the indecision depending on your view) would make the cost of keeping both downright prohibitive to us improving other areas of weakness on the team.
spectre...The math makes it likely that Quinn will be the starter next season and DA will be gone, that is clear.
I wonder when Anderson is due to get his roster bonus?
Knowing the date DA's roster bonus is due could give us some idea when a trade deal might happen.
Then again, if the Browns do hire a new head coach, it could change the entire situation.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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It's funny how many fans just can't seem to see their way to understanding that NFL teams are a corperation first and foremost. And that many of the logical answers come from a marketing and financial standpoint in most cases for that very reason IMO Nice post!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Quote:
With Brady's $11M escalator and DA's huge $5M roster bonus both coming down in 2009, it's clear that the contracts were designed to have a decision between the two made after 2008. To delay the decision (or extend the indecision depending on your view) would make the cost of keeping both downright prohibitive to us improving other areas of weakness on the team.
spectre...The math makes it likely that Quinn will be the starter next season and DA will be gone, that is clear.
I wonder when Anderson is due to get his roster bonus?
Knowing the date DA's roster bonus is due could give us some idea when a trade deal might happen.
Then again, if the Browns do hire a new head coach, it could change the entire situation.
His bonus comes due on March 15th, 2009. The draft is the last weekend in April. That's a lot of time in between but it also means that whoever is our coach will know exactly how the situation is shaking out heading into the draft. I'd prefer to wait until draft day because that causes teams to panic more, but I guess we'll have to work it as we've set it up.
We're... we're good?
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Great post - what I was thinking as well.
But, to expand (or maybe summarize) a little - neither BQ nor DA will settle for being a backup next year. They are going to want to go somewhere where they will be the presumed starter.
The biggest difference I see in the Bears QB situation vs ours, is that the Bears have 2 QBs that other teams weren't willing to turn to as their starter. Orton may be looked at as an average starter, but I still don't see teams going nuts for him even if he were a free agent this year. No one would be ready to bring in Grossman as their starter.
As for the Browns, I may have on my Orange-colored glasses, but I believe teams still look at both our QBs as guys they would be interested in bringing in as starters. They may need to bring in a better "option B" than they would have last year, but we're talking about a very young QB in DA that is one year removed from the Pro Bowl and an even younger QB in Quinn that teams were offering 1st round picks for just a few weeks ago.
I don't see any scenario that has both QBs here next year. I would like to see it, but both QBs (and their agents) know the clock is ticking if they want to make it big in the NFL. That's why these injuries are killers, because it sure would have been nice to see a little more out of these two before making the final decision...
Go Browns!!
RIP RK
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to further that, imagine if we bring in a coach who just wasn't sold on quinn to begin with. imagine if we brought in cowher or marty and they chose DA over quinn and traded quinn. that's the type of bold move that the new coach could get away with as he rides his knight in shining armor phase.
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As much as our fan base has seen of DA, I'm not sure ANYBODY could get away with that one and not draw ire.
Keeping both for a year? I could see that. Time will tell IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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His bonus comes due on March 15th, 2009. The draft is the last weekend in April.
well, any hope of a second for DA just went out the window. Teams will just wait for the Browns to cut him knowing that is the only way to avoid paying the bonus. Kind of forces the browns to pay the bonus and then see what happens........
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Not necessarily.
There is precedent for players delaying their bonus payments.
Another option is to convert the bonus into some form of workout bonus.
There are ways to play this that go outside the realm of "pay DA on the exact date or cut him." That isn't to say we will go that route, but rather to explain there are options.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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No doubt.....but after hearing himself being cheered for getting injured, how willing is the guy going to be to work with the team??
If it was me, I would tell the team to pay me my 5 mil as contracted or cut my ass.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It’s not as simple as cut his ass, I believe there where also some guarantees attached to his contract, that mean sure yeah you can avoid the roster money but you are still left owing the guaranteed portion.
I find it strange that Toad and Pitt both think that DA and BQ can go down the same road we just went down this season yet again next season.
I absolutely could not disagree more, there is no way we can have a repeat performance of what took place in the stands and in the press yet again next season. It was just way to big a distraction.
I agree that neither player had a problem, and the team itself had no problem, but the fans never supported DA, they always wanted BQ, and that’s just the way of it. I personally think a good football coach should be able to choose his field general, and the fans should support it. But as long as the fans of the Browns seem so hell bent on micro managing the team from their seats at CBS we should never have anybody in a back-up roll that even smells of possible good QB.
It’s pretty sad actually but I have learned my lesson in spades DA and BQ cannot co-exist, we can’t have an ideal QB situation in Cleveland, the fans and press won’t allow it. They will stoop to calling for the back-up at the 1st sign of trouble, and they may even stoop so low as to cheer for injury. I’ve seen enough, one of the 2 has to go. It’s not that I have a say, but God almighty enough is enough, and I sure as hell have seen enough, it won’t work the fans and the press won’t ever let it.
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I find it strange that Toad and Pitt both think that DA and BQ can go down the same road we just went down this season yet again next season.
There is a method to my madness, though many would honestly say I'm mad just for thinkin' it (and they may be right  ).....
Since I can't sleep, the unlucky get me here in the middle of the night *L*
Opinion #1: I've seen the following opinion on more than one occasion, courtesy of the Cleveland media who come up with cockamamie angles to things more often than not. This opinion says that Anderson didn't feel any pressure after Frye was cut, so he could play loose. This year, they say he feels the pressure of Quinn looking over his shoulder. Last year when we dumped Frye, Anderson knew he wouldn't be in the game if it weren't for Quinn's holdout. Everyone under the sun knew the reality of the situation, which was that he was keepin' it warm for Quinn.
If that isn't pressure, I don't know what is.  So either he felt it last year and survived it, or he didn't feel it last year and it doesn't exist. Obviously, it was real.
Opinion #2: Quinn and Anderson's relationship has never appeared contentious, much the way Grossman and Orton's relationship was never damaged. That tells me that while the've the burning desire to play, they can co-exist.
Opinion #3: First Anderson was injured when our O-line laid an egg in preseason. Then Quinn gets hurt. Then Anderson gets hurt again...... I think we all know where I'm going with that one  There is no better backup QB for this team than Anderson or Quinn.
Opinion #4: Not a single soul got to see enough of Quinn to say one way or another that he's the guy. Anderson makes for the best possible fall-back plan if Quinn falters, who'll have 1st crack at being the starter next year no matter who's here.
Opinion #5: Though Quinn and Anderson bring different abilities to the position, the offense isn't so demanding that only one guy is capable of running it. They don't have Quinn so on the move that Anderson could never keep up, and they certainly won't have Quinn going downfield as much as they would with Anderson. There are simply some plays we'd favor for either guy.
Now the obvious problem revolves around the theory that if you've 2 QB's you have none. I'm always on board with that one, but do make exceptions. The Bears had to do it so it made sense. The Niners had to do it because it made sense. The Bucs did it but got away with it, as they've tried to replace Garcia a couple of times and can't do it. I actually think this problem is solved because Quinn is the golden boy/1st round pick. It's likely he'll get the nod over Anderson because of the investment, creating a situation where Quinn is the clear-cut starter.
The other problem is the $5 million dollar bonus. That's big money for a backup. Going from memory here, Stallworth is due $5 million bonus. He'll certainly be cut. Winslow's salary is around $5 million. Davis and McGinnest are gone. There'll have to be money for Jones or for his replacement. Lewis is due $4 million. Savage will have some space to work with, but it's going to cost Stallworth his job, and may cost Anderson his if that money can be spent on a big upgrade.
It's probably more likely that Anderson will be gone via trade, but I'd rather that we keep him. I know Lerner isn't happy about rotation QB's, and he has a point. Crennel started playing roulette with'em and it's helped to assure he's looking for work next season. Who knows what would have happened if Quinn got in the games while Anderson was struggling through the tough part of the year. Who knows what would have happened if Anderson was allowed to start against the punching-bag Donks. That's why Lerner is P'O'ED.
That, my good man, is why I think it's smart to keep him. Now if a team wants to come along and give us a good 1st rounder for him, I'm thinking about that one.
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we can’t have an ideal QB situation in Cleveland, the fans and press won’t allow it. They will stoop to calling for the back-up at the 1st sign of trouble, and they may even stoop so low as to cheer for injury.
That's why I think keeping Anderson can work.
The fans and media are going to give Quinn FAR more slack, making it easy for him to keep his job without the controversy. Now if Quinn really does turn out to be a dud, well, we've got plan B ready to go.
The odds aren't good for keeping Anderson, but there exist numerous logical scenarios where he stays........
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I personally think a good football coach should be able to choose his field general, and the fans should support it. But as long as the fans of the Browns seem so hell bent on micro managing the team from their seats at CBS we should never have anybody in a back-up roll that even smells of possible good QB.
I think a good coach shouldn't give a crap what the fans say, and just do whats best for the team. If he feels it's best to keep them both (which I think it is) he should.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Oh don't get me wrong Toad I agree with your take all the way.
But there will be no peace as long as there are 2 QB's in Cleveland. I even hear it in your post. The reference you make to the donks says it all actually.
In a perfect world IMHO we hold to the course we set out on from the beginning of the season. We ignore the fans and the press and forge ahead with finding a franchise QB. As distasteful, as fans seem to think the presense of DA is, he would be perfect, and afford us a plan B no question. But, (and this actually is the kicker) when BQ has a bad game or if he has any struggles what-so-ever the fans will be all over it. They will insist on micro managing the situation from their seats, then everything will just fall apart all around them, much the same as it did this season. I like the idea, it won't work in Cleveland, the fans and the press won't ever let it.
We both know that in most instances QB's have struggles, it is what it is so to speak. It sucks when it happens and as a coach or a fan you have to suck it up and let the player work through it assuming the effort is there. The fans won't let it go and they will ride the offender in the ground, and beyond in Cleveland.
It's actually so contrary to what used to make up a Browns fan. Yeah they would give it to a guy now and then , and they even let BK and BS have it a few times, but the fans knew they were our guy. Thats the difference here I believe to the fan or the grass is greener guy it's simple change the QB we have another one, move on. The fact that their was no viable replacement made the fans at least temper there distaste for the QB play with the knowledge that there was no place else to turn. It actually caused the fan to be more reasonable, something that is totally lacking this time because of choices.
They have ridden DA from the onset of the season, he deserved better then he got. Claiming support while secretly and sometimes not so secretly hoping for and routing for his failor is disgusting and true IMO. He deserved better lets put it that way. And oh BTW he earned the fans support, and still he didn't get it. He has taken the blame for not only his own faults but the faults of those around him. It can't continue and in my view until we have no choice, no QB will be a success, not in Cleveland.
Oh and the Bears thing it's strange that you hold that situation up as an example because I remember in the pre-season BK saying there has always been a QB controversy there. He even sudjested that they needed to pick a guy and ride it out with him.
While I agree it's as close to a perfect situation as you can get to keep them both, it won't work this season proves that in spades IMO.
BTTB
BTTB
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The ONLY way I think they could co-exist is under a new HC like a Marty or a Cowher.
I believe either of those coaches command enough respect that if they were to come here and say THEY wanted to keep both and come to their own conclusion on the matter, fans would accept that.
And once they decided who to go with, that would be that. Now if RAC and Phil stay? I think one of the two QB's would have to go. It's obvious that Browns fans do not feel RAC commands the respect from the fan base that he could get a grip on the QB situation with both of them still here IMO
And in actuality, I'm of the opinion that the current regime is hoping that Gradkowski has the potential to be a solid back up so they can deal DA.
As I said to Toad, I believe Gradkowski's skill set is much closer to Quinn's than DA's. That way if Quinn goes down, you really do not have to adjust your plays or game plan at all because both have similar styles.
So my feeling that DA/BQ can co-exist is slim to none.
Right now slim is in the lead, but none is closing in coming down the final stretch.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Sorry Pitt I understand what you are saying, it will never happen. There is no such thing as commanding the respect of the fan base in Cleveland. There is no sacred cow so to speak within the coaching community that will be spared the wrath of the fan base in Cleveland if they lose more then one or 2 games. And God forbid should they lose a pre-season game.
Here is the deal as I see it. A coach takes his team, a bad team from a 4-12 beginning to a 10-6 season, and then loses 4 straight pre-season games and the fan base is on fire. They want the HC under the nearest bus. Never mind the injuries; never mind the known issues and lack of depth key to the injury situation. In spite of all that it’s pre-season and the posse is beginning to assemble, the hangings will soon follow.
That’s the Browns fan base. You have to love them they are consistent. The closest the Browns have EVER come to having a coach quit and retire is when BD quit, or more on point was forced to quit, by you guessed it the FANS. Now you think they will allow any coach no matter how good his resume may be to make that choice and support it. No way, I agree it would be the wisest thing to ever happen, but it won’t, no way, not never ever.
As I see it, if you do not trade either DA or BQ we will soon see a repeat of what we saw this year. Fans will simply say that the coach might have been a great coach at one time but the game has passed them by, and they Joe Fan know what is best. From there it will once again spiral out of control, and will be right back where we are now. No Thanks, although I would love for what you have said to happen, it just won’t.
JMHO
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Quote:
Opinion #2: Quinn and Anderson's relationship has never appeared contentious, much the way Grossman and Orton's relationship was never damaged. That tells me that while the've the burning desire to play, they can co-exist.
I agree that it hasn't appeared that way in the past. However, I think the events of the past few weeks, culminating with DA injuring his knee this past Sunday and hearing it from the fans, may have started that rift which is irreparable. Why would DA point out, when discussing his injury, that the last time he had such an injury was in a college game in which he beat Brady Quinn, the same QB he's been trying to "beat" for the starting job in Cleveland?
As you said, its never appeared contentious, but that doesn't mean that it isn't. It could be that they've just begun to shed any sort of sense of professionalism that might've been keeping those feelings in check. After all, nobody else in this organization is acting like a professional, and when in Rome...
Regarding the QB situation in Chicago...both of those QBs are mediocre at best. I have no doubt in my mind that BQ or DA could beat out both Orton and Grossman for the starting spot in Chicago. Both of Chicago's QBs have been given plenty of shots to cement themselves as "the guy" but neither one has been able to do it. Even the two recent years where the team had success, that success was built on the backs of their defense. I guarantee you nobody is giving Rex or Kyle the credit for the Bears getting to the playoffs or the Super Bowl. Heck, their Super Bowl year, Kyle Orton didn't even take a snap for the entire season, as he'd been relegated to 3rd string status, being unable to beat out Brian Griese, and barely beating out Chris Leak.
Honestly, I've thought for a while that if we were going to trade DA, that Chicago would be a good destination for him. NFC team, so we won't face them often, strong defense, a decent set of skill guys on the offense, and they've got to be about to the point where they want to go a completely new direction at QB.
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well, any hope of a second for DA just went out the window. Teams will just wait for the Browns to cut him knowing that is the only way to avoid paying the bonus. Kind of forces the browns to pay the bonus and then see what happens........
Even if DA doesn't push back his roster bonus for us (which, even if he's being selfish, he very well could to ensure better options for him through a trade), that's just not how it works. The reason teams trade for players like DA instead of waiting on the waiver wire is because they can guarantee getting him. Heck, who says we even cut him if we have no bites? If he won't push it back, all we say is that we're not cutting DA and we'll sell him to the highest bidder before his roster bonus is due. I guarantee you we'll get bidders to compete for him. It may not be for a 2nd but it'll be something competitive.
By the way, for those that want to keep DA, this is from the article in another thread.
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Among the other things Savage discussed...
**He said he agreed with Lerner's belief that the Browns need to pick one quarterback and move forward with him.
There you have it. It was nice knowing you DA.
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That quote doesn't say exactly what you're believing it says.
Lerner was unhappy with the jockeying that's gone on with the QB's. Neither guy is saying that we can't keep both QB's. What they are saying is that it's time to pick one as the starter and stick with him.
Those are two very different things.
Of course every team says that.......right up until the current starter is deemed a failure or needs benching......so I put little stock in that comment from the angle it means anything about Anderson leaving.
Remember, Crennel started this crap last year when he started Frye, then kicked him to the curb after a freakin' half and went to Anderson. He continued it when he went with Anderson until he started turning the corner, then put in Quinn because he figured the sorry-ass Donks were a perfect punching dummy to launch his career. That move didn't pan out. He ended up switching BACK to Anderson, who's now about to go under the knife.
Anderson could well be gone for a variety of reasons, but the comment about picking a QB doesn't say Anderson is gone. In fact, it speaks more to the fate of Crennel than anyone else.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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I think a good coach shouldn't give a crap what the fans say, and just do whats best for the team. If he feels it's best to keep them both (which I think it is) he should.
I've never understood the fans that think it's a bad thing to have two capable QB's.. Guys that could start and win. we are actually blessed by that but some feel it's causing division.. and the only division I see is between the fans.... honestly, what difference SHOULD that make?
I know,, I know,, if you have two QB's, you don't have one!
But let me ask you,, what if we were undefeated right now,,, and we lost our starter Let's say for argument sake,, the starter was Anderson...
Quinn comes in and I think it's pretty safe to say that the season is NOT over..... Agreed?
Reverse that and I bet the same basic feeling prevails....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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Quote:
Anderson could well be gone for a variety of reasons, but the comment about picking a QB doesn't say Anderson is gone. In fact, it speaks more to the fate of Crennel than anyone else.
I suppose it does to me because I don't believe either guy can exist on the team knowing with certainty that he's the backup. Quinn can't exist as the backup because he'll lose $11M in his contract and a 3rd year in the pros, which he won't stand for and DA can't exist as the backup because you can't pay a backup $8M a year. Just my opinion but I really think the realities, including quotes like that, seal the deal.
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Sorry Pitt I understand what you are saying, it will never happen. There is no such thing as commanding the respect of the fan base in Cleveland. There is no sacred cow so to speak within the coaching community that will be spared the wrath of the fan base in Cleveland if they lose more then one or 2 games. And God forbid should they lose a pre-season game.
I disagree with you there. You see, there are certain qualities in people that they must "earn" from you. Things like trust, respect and loyalty. Many people aren't just blind followers to the extent that they do not expect people to earn these things.
What have we seen since 99? ALL first time NFL HC's. So they had no trust, respect reputation that fans had going into their jobs. So people wait, watch and hope. Is that fair? I won't delve into that right now.
But with guys like Cowher and Marty, they have built a solid reputation as NFL HC's. They have a winning tradition that comes along with them. Giving them a level of trust and confidence from the fan base coming into the job.
So for that very reason, I feel if a proven HC is hired, the fand base will be quite willing to have a little patience under such circumstances. They already have a reputation that brings along with it a certain amount of respect and trust.
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Here is the deal as I see it. A coach takes his team, a bad team from a 4-12 beginning to a 10-6 season, and then loses 4 straight pre-season games and the fan base is on fire. They want the HC under the nearest bus. Never mind the injuries; never mind the known issues and lack of depth key to the injury situation. In spite of all that it’s pre-season and the posse is beginning to assemble, the hangings will soon follow.
Well all of those "never minds" you just mentioned happen to every coach. That's why people do evaluate things. Say what you will, but he took over a team and went four and twelve. And from the looks of things, year four of his coaching tenure won't yield much better results than year one.
As much as you might hate to admit it, this team has lacked focus. They have lost direction. And this is RAC's fourth season. While I believe the talent level is better in year four than in year one, the results sure don't reflect that.
That's all I think people were looking for was the ability to steadily improve. That RAC as a HC would mature in his areas of weakness. And we're not seeing it. Business is pretty much about the bottom line. The NFL IS a business. And that IS the bottom line IMO
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That’s the Browns fan base. You have to love them they are consistent.
I'd say they're every bit as consistant as the product that has been put on the field in year four of what was proposed to us as a five year plan.
If that's what you're refering to.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Do you think either one of the QBs would accept being the backup next year?
There are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense for the Browns to keep both QBs. But I don't see any scenarios where the QBs agree to it. Demands for a trade would be in our future...
Go Browns!!
RIP RK
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I'd say they're every bit as consistant as the product that has been put on the field in year four of what was proposed to us as a five year plan.
I asked you this in the Quinn thread where you were blathering on about Savage having been at it for over 4.5 years and you've either missed it or are ignoring it.
I don't recall this particular regime speaking of a 5 year plan. Previous regimes have spoken in that regard for sure....but (and I may be wrong) I don't recall this regime speaking of a 5 year plan. Who said it? Was it RAC or Opie? Both?
Do you realize that the first year they were here they blew the place up? We are in year 4 but only 3 have been realistic puzzle piecing together years.
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Yep, without a doubt in my mind - if we truly had a solid First and Third offer for DA it was a Bomb decision of major proportions to have not gotten them.
We might even have to end up Releasing DA, cause so many teams will not want the 5 mil bonus - even if they get DA with a 4th round or 5th round pick...its the 5 mil that is going to damper the trade. So we will have to wait and pay the 5 mil and then trade him? Will we do that for a 4th or 5th round pick...eat 5 mil that we could use in FA???
I don't think so...there is a good chance that we release DA.
Of course if DA and his agent go and work out for teams to show his knee is healed 100% and I know for a fact DA throws a great ball in "PRACTICE" so that he could WOW some teams  that will be our only salvation in this process....Go DA - Get healthy and WOW THEM!
Of course he could stay here as an expensive back up...which wouldn't be bad cause as we saw its easy to lose your QB.
There is an outside chance that a new coach comes in and gets WOWed himself by the throwing skills of DA and gets bilked into starting him...AGAIN until the results come out - AGAIN and we find ourselves stuck in a bad season...but then we are going to play against some bad teams next year - AFC West, NFC North...where any QB will shine?
So who knows...all I know is we got to pick one and stick with him...I am pretty sure of the results with DA ...after 27 starts. I can only hope that BQ is the stud we drafted him for...so far I have been impressed.
But - lets get back to that missed opportunity in trade...there were rumors that the Cowboys would have traded DA to the Ravens.  Got news for you all....I'd rather be seeing 6 years of DA with the Ravens than the next 6 years with Flacco on the Ravens!
JMHO - thats one move Savage blew, he was very sold on the idea of winning this season and thought DA was the best shot, that I understood but in hindsight - that decision stunk.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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I don't recall this particular regime speaking of a 5 year plan. Previous regimes have spoken in that regard for sure....but (and I may be wrong) I don't recall this regime speaking of a 5 year plan. Who said it? Was it RAC or Opie? Both?
It was Opie. And I'm pretty sure MOST people remember it. I know it was the talk of message boards and articles fairly extencively upon his arrival. But don't plan to spend my day on google trying to find it.
And yes, I know that in their first year they had to blow things up. But they knew it too. So I'll take him at his word.
And for the most part, I think Phil is pretty well on his way to living up to his part of that commitment. Unfortunatly I don't believe he has the supporting cast to let us see that as of yet.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Do you think either one of the QBs would accept being the backup next year?
There are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense for the Browns to keep both QBs. But I don't see any scenarios where the QBs agree to it. Demands for a trade would be in our future...
I think the more appropriate question is this:
Do you think Derek Anderson would be willing to sit out the year and not collect his $5 million dollar bonus?
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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It was Opie. And I'm pretty sure MOST people remember it. I know it was the talk of message boards and articles fairly extencively upon his arrival. But don't plan to spend my day on google trying to find it.
Wouldn't take a day. I've looked and I can't find it. (which of course doesn't mean it didn't happen as you say) But methinks you are confused since so many people have stated this trendy phrase in the last 10 years.
*shrug*
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And for the most part, I think Phil is pretty well on his way to living up to his part of that commitment. Unfortunatly I don't believe he has the supporting cast to let us see that as of yet.
But RAC has had the supporting cast (players on the field)?? Even with the injuries, the Bentley debacle, the Winslow debacle, the QB debacle, the lack of execution by the players who do make it to the field?
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