DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum HD TV Question(s)

As mentioned in another thread I ventured out on Black Friday last week and waited in line at Walmart for the 50" Samsung plasma that they were selling for $798. While I would not be at all surprised if there are better deals to be had between now and tax return time, I am satisfied with what I got for my money. Of course it should be noted that I went from a 27" analog to this set.

I tend to think that the specs are reasonable considering the price:

720p
Resolution: 1365 (H) x 768 (V)
Contrast Ratio: 15,000:1 (100,000:1 dynamic)
Comb filter type: 3D digital
Refresh rate: ????? (the best I can find is that Crutchfield says it is not 120Hz....I can find no specs in the manual)

The question I have is that does a set with better specs (i.e., 1080p, better contrast, 120Hz refresh rate) perform markedly better that this set when the HD signal is from Time-Warner (or probably any other carrier for that matter)? It is my understanding that all "wired" HD television video is compressed since there are delivery limitations and it makes me wonder if the best picture that a carrier can provide is no more or even less than my own specs can display? I can understand how Blu-ray can provide more digital information to process in a faster fashion, but it does seem that the technology available now may not take advantage of some TVs capabilities. I would expect advances to be made including a more effective infrastructure and I am going to investigate fiber optic in anticipation of AT&T's U-Verse finally reaching my doorstep.

In short, is 720p with a refresh rate of under 120 at or near the level of what Time-Warner provides?

Time Warner and i believe Direct TV both broadcast in 1080i, so yeah, if you had a more capable TV, you would def. notice a difference..

I'd get a Vizio.

I have one and I love it.

As long as you're not interested in moving into the blu-ray realm or soon new download technologies, you should be happy enough with 720p. There's not a huge difference in 720p and 1080i, generally 720p is considered to be better with displaying sports or other fast moving programs. 1080i is going to be better at displaying movies. Is any of this noticeably different? That all depends on how good your display is and how good your eyes are.

Always buy the best display you can afford if you're picky and if you're not, buy something least expensive at the size you prefer. Either way you're going to get used to what you have and be happy with it for awhile.

Now if you want to take advantage of the new 3D chips being built into the DLP sets that blu-ray movies will take advantage of, you'll have to pony up some more cash.

Most people won't notice much of a difference between 720p 1080p until you start to get around 50 inches TV's.

I'm looking at HDTV's really close. I've found that most 720p TV's will produce a 1080i picture. Look your model up on the net, or read the manual very closely. It will probably produce a 1080i picture. Progressive scan (p) is better than interlaced scan (i) so retailers are advertising a sets progressive rating.

Broadcast TV bandwidth can't support 1080p anyways, so Blu-Ray is the only place you're losing out by not having a 1080p capable set. From everything I've read and heard, 720p and 1080i are going to be pretty similar. My set supports up to 1080p and my STB automatically converts to the resolution of the feed so I don't have to manually switch between resolutions...I don't really pay attention to which resolution my TV is using for a particular channel.

As in your other thread, I would recommend hooking up your cable box to your TV with component cables as opposed to HDMI. TV programs are broadcast in a variety of resolutions (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i), and HDMI can tend to "hang" on a particular resolution when changing between channels displaying different resolutions. That is to say, if you were watching a channel that you only get in standard definition and you switch to a program that is in high definition, the cable box might not switch resolutions. I think this is more a problem of particular set top boxes than HDMI itself...I've read about it with Scientific Atlanta boxes. 1080p signals can't be transmitted via component cable, but since TV can't be broadcast in 1080p, its a moot point. Use the component in for your set top box and save the HDMI ports for devices that are at a constant resolution, like an upconverting DVD player, Blu-Ray, or a PC if you hook one up.

Personally I do component video and analog audio direct to my TV, and digital optical audio from my set top box straight to my receiver.

Thanks Adam. I do use component, but only because TW didn't have any more HD HDMI boxes. I appreciate your tip though since I had planned on stopping by there again to exchange it. TW did give me component cables which I assume are of decent quality based on the gauge of wire? That is a plus considering I saw component cables for more than $80 at Best Buy. Wow.

The rest of my set up is the same as yours. I use HDMI for the home theater and my digital optical audio is connected to the TW Scientific Atlanta box. My TV has digital optical audio out and I wondered if that option was any better, but figured that connecting to the box was a more direct connection. I'm getting one of my family members a laptop for Christmas that has a HDMI port. Can't wait to try that out. The set also has VGA, but I doubt I am going to bring my PC into the living room. I have heard that HDMI will automatically match a computer's resolution where as you may have to adjust it when using VGA. I suppose I will address that as needed.

I've been reading some things about HD TV since getting this set, including compression that the carriers are using and what all the specs mean. I was going to not renew my subscription to PC World, but might keep it now since they do cover high def from time to time. From all I have learned it does seem to me that fiber optic TV is the way to go, but I guess that is if AT&T takes advantage of the technology.

I tend to not be a early adopter of new tech, probably because I'm cheap. I suppose that is why I am setting here at my 6 year old Dell. Heck, I even bought it refurbished and have never regretted it. It's a P4 2.5Ghz with a video card that his slowly melting down. That's OK though...I'll spend $40 for another APG card and run it until the mobo quits.

Another question...

If a network broadcasts in 5.1 audio and I get the signal via TW, does the cable maintain the 5.1 or do I need to get an antenna for this?

I just checked on my receiver (which is connected via optical digital to my set top box, as I said) on the USC-UCLA game...it's being broadcast in 5.1 and my receiver is getting a true 5.1 signal. Before I had the set top box, when I was getting my HD channels via the built-in QAM tuner in my TV, I was running the TV's optical output to the receiver and getting the same thing, so I'm guessing it will work either way.

Regarding the HDMI automatically adjusting resolution, I don't know about that. I have a Mac laptop that I can connect to my TV's HDMI input via DVI-HDMI cable (My Mac has DVI output), and it seems to automatically recognize the proper size, though I can adjust the resolution. Heck, when the TV is connected it even lists "Panasonic Plasma" as the connected display. One thing about connecting a computer to a TV via HDMI is that you might have to deal with overscan, meaning the PC's video display will either have a small black border all the way around the picture, or the outside edge of the picture will get cut off. Your TV might have overscan correction for this. Mine doesn't, but it also has a dedicated VGA PC input, which is what I prefer to use when connecting my computer (I use it to stream HD content from sites like Hulu or CBS.com).

Oh yeah...don't ever get cables at any sort of big box store unless its an emergency. www.bluejeanscable.com or www.monoprice.com. I outfitted my living room with in-wall speaker wire and subwoofer cable that I got from Blue Jeans...I've got a panel of speaker connection terminals behind the TV/entertainment center wired to panels located where my theater speakers need to be, patched together with the in-wall speaker cable. No unsightly cables running across my floor or walls, and its great quality cable (Belden brand) for a very good price. Highly recommended.

+1 on the monoprice.com, not a better way to go.

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720p

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like others said, blu ray was meant to be watched on 1080p. if you dont plan on going that route, you just found yourself a nice tv at a good price.

Unless you go over 50 inches there is not much differance between 720 and 1080. I have a Samsung series 4, 3D ready plasma and I like my 720 display better than the 1080. I watch blue ray on my PS3 and it looks amazing. Plus no network broadcasts in 1080p so for the price 720 is just fine. The differance in costs is too much for what you are really getting. I would want one that is 3D ready though since that is going to the future. I bought my TV (Reviews) in June and for the cost it is one of the best plasmas available.

I wonder if the TV you bought is the same? Word to the wise bro. Keep all settings (Contrast & Brightness) at 50 or below for the first 200 - 300 hours of use. This will avoid burn retention. Follow your manual about how to protect your screen.

Some say that gaming is not meant for plasmas but that's because most people plug their TVs in (that are preset to the highest levels) and play for 5 hours on a new plasma. Let it break in a bit and then it should be fine.

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I wonder if the TV you bought is the same?

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No, I have the "400". The difference I see is that your model's contrast ratio is better and it has one more HDMI port. You may also have a better refresh rate.

I don't mind the limitations with ports and such since I don't intend to attach anything other than the home theater (it is limited as well, but the price was right). I would have little or no advantage to getting Blu-ray for my 720p and do not plan on playing games (I prefer PC games anyway).

I am guessing that the contrast ratio would affect picture quality with dark colors and also the clarity in a well lit room. I'm happy with both.

Thanks for the tip about the settings. I really need to read the manual beyond just getting it up and running. I read the review on your link and noticed it was rated for 100,000 hours. I have heard that plasmas can be "recharged". Is this true?

The 100,000 hours is the half-life of the screen, meaning that after 100,000 hours of use, the screen will be half as bright as it was when it was brand new. Look at it this way...if it lives up to the rating, that means that if you left it on constantly it would hit its half life in a little over 11 years.

This guy sums it pretty well...maybe too well....

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?message.uid=27027175

Great link. Thanks.

Recently I have seen what I would guess is motion judder while watching HD sports. I had wondered if it was my set, but when I went from ESPN where it was occurring to a football game on CBS I noticed no shudder on CBS. I don't know if that is ESPN's compression or the TW signal that caused the shudder, and ultimately it probably doesn't matter, but I think this at least eliminated my set as the culprit.

I decided to revive this thread as opposed to startintg a new one.

I am in the market for a new HDTV. I will most likely wait till the beginning of the year (after Christmas and New Years Sales). I think I pretty much know what I want but its always good to get a few more opinions.....

First... what are your thoughts on Plasma vs LCD....
--For me I was at first dead set against Plasma. I was worried about burn in, reflectiveness and a few other things. but this was before I actually went out and started looking. And while yes the LCD's are noticebly brighter, I did like the color and contrast of the plasmas. I also liked the fact that they had a piece of glass. For someone thinking about adopting kids and who has nephews, I like the idea of the glass vs the film where curious fingers can ruin pixels in an LCD. Also the Plasmas were a little cheaper. Yes I noticed reflections. but no more so than in my CRT at home..and I really don't notice them when I am watching...So while I was dead against Plasmas, I am actually leaning towards them ...Although I haven't ruled out LCD's

Second, what brands have you had the most success with?
--There are alot of companies out there. but the 2 that I seem to be narrowing in on have been Panasonic and Samsung. Their quality and price seem be some of the best values. Vizio has good value but their quality isn't quite in the range of the other 2. Sony has the quality, but their price isn't quite in the range of the others...

Third.....well I guess I am going to throw out some specific models I am most interested in. They are all in the 50" range. If anyone has any specific experience or knowledge with any of these I would love to here their stories.

Panasonic
TH50PZ800U - Top line THX certified I hear a lot of good things
TH50PZ85U - mid level
TH50PZ80U - entry level, but still fantastic plasma

Samsung
Plasma
PN50A650T - Great colors, not as bright as the Panasonics, nice features
PN50A550S- similar to the 650 but without some of the features, and does not have the fancy colored bezel

LCD
LN52A650-One of the biggest sellers this year
LN52A550- like the plasmas...less features no colored bezel but basically the same set

If any of you have had some great experiences with others I would love to hear about them as well.

Pete...

Check out this forum. I used it before I bought my Samsung LCD. I got to know what type of issues people had or didn't have with the unit...serial numbers to look for to know the manufacture date and firmwares, etc.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=9

I did end up having my screen replaced while it was still under warranty. I was the first one to experience "display separation" with my model...go figure...but Samsung was very good about coming out and fixing it. Whatever you get I would recommend extended warranty.

To answer your question I can only refer to something I noticed..

I was up at Circuit City on black friday,,, they had a display set up with a 720 sitting next to a 1080 and the difference wasn't significant to me... But there were a couple of young kids standing there next to me and they were talking about how much better the 1080 was...

What can I say....

Bingo...Unless u wanna go big bucks for Pioneer Elite Kuro's...Go with Panasonic or Samsung...

That AVS Forum has excellent advice and settings that people use...

Plasma burn-in is a thing of the past unless the owner is just flat out ignorant...lol...

I'm soon going with the Panasonic Plasma---50PZ85U...I've seen these and LCD's in many different room lighting set-ups...Bright rooms is about the only concern for a plasma...And even then u gotta be anal to complain...

CAUTION with LCD's...I didn't believe it till I saw it...A 60HZ Refresh Rate will seem to leave a trailing effect when viewing fast paced action such as Auto Racing...Go with 120HZ if u go LCD Pete...MUCH BETTER...

Can't go wrong with either Plasma or LCD but I've decided myself to get the Panasonic Plasma...

Now where to buy...I watch Amazon...They had a free bluray offer with this plasma...Right now it's $1470 and free S&H...I also watch Vanns....

Also account for the wall bracket if you're going on the wall...I recently did a Basement Finish for a couple in a 6 month old home...I did everything including the A/V and Speaker wiring in the wall and ceiling cavities...I hung TWO 58" Plasma's for them...BOTH Pioneer Elite's...The damn wall brackets they got were $500 a piece...KILLER BASEMENT!!!!...They were out of town the weekend I did the Entertainment portion...I WAS JAMMIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...Plasma's and Bose all around...Bar...Pool Table...Pinball Machine...Slot Machines...The whole thing...

Good point about the processor DiD. 240Hz is on the horizon...but the trailing effect is why I am leaning plasma over LCD myself.

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Now where to buy...I watch Amazon...They had a free bluray offer with this plasma...Right now it's $1470 and free S&H...I also watch Vanns...And Fotoconnection...

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Careful with Fotoconnection. They have had some terrible reviews. Check out 6ave.com. Best price on these panny's I could find to date.

Yeah...Scratch Fotoconnection...

6thAve...Bought from there before...They have TWO-PACKS...Nice...Never saw that before...I notice they will beat any price off Pricegrabber...Definitely watch this one...

without going into all your points, the best bet is to go lcd. the plasma tvs use more power and give off a lot of heat. your living room will feel like an oven, costing you more in electricity as well as AC usage (i have a 50 inch plasma and a 32 inch lcd, my next tv will definitely be a 120 hz 1080p lcd tv, probably by samsung). additionally, most plasmas, even the 1080p plasmas, only output to a computer at 1024x768, maybe slightly higher even though 1080p is supposed to be 1920x1080. while this may not be an issue to you, you never know about the future, especially with the media center pcs.

i didn't see if you wanted 720p or 1080p but if you're willing to spend around $1500, this is a great set (which is a 46" samsung, best tv brad imo, that is 1080p and 120hz):

http://shop3.frys.com/product/5574950

otherwise, keep an eye out on www.thedailydeals.com

they constantly post tv deals and you can easily get a 50 inch, 720p set for $700-ish.

I Have a 32" Sony Bravia and I love it..

Easiest user interface IMHO
Sony also makes them using LCD which is better in the Long Rong because you will not need to have to have parts replaced in Plasma screens. Sony also has the best brand of LCD screens.

The prices also dropped on all the Bravia TV's

56" Samsung DLP rear projection here. Absolutely WONDERFUL picture! Clear, sharp, vibrant colors. I would highly recommend Samsung, just based on my short ownership (about a month).

For me, the BEST part of my giant TV, is that I paid NOTHING for it (work incentives - I rock! )

Wow, great replies!!!

I_Rogue...thanks for the link will definitely check it out. From what I am understanding if I go LCD...Samsung may be the way to go....

Daman.....From my reading...at 50" I am right at that point where 720p and 108p start to make a difference...Plus, I am kind of artistic(or is that autistic ) in many things so I can pick up a few things. As for the kids, I bet if they didn't know which was which they couldn't make the disticntion ...especially on the 46" and smaller sets.

Shark....I love the Panny Plasmas. The ONE THING I don't like about the 80U though is that it's 3rd HDMI connection is in the front. And going through the trouble of hiding everything gets aliit out of whack when you see a cable snaking from underneath to plug into the front...But it is probably the one I will get the best price on...and it is still a fantastic set.

DnD... Oh Yeah those Pioneers are nice but I can get 2 or 3 of the 800U's for the price of the Kuro. and the 800 is an amazing set......definitely will go 120 Hz with the LCD's if I go that route...but that was another plus for the plasmas as they don't have this problem....even though most run at 60Hz...the Panny sub field runs at 480!!! and shark mentioned the 240 HZ coming out...I was reading that the Sony that has come out with it is just so expensive and the improvement is minimal, I don't know if it will hang on or not...As for where I am going to buy...I am going to buy from HHGregg...the reason being is that they have been a large help to me whenever I walked in and looked at different things and their guys were pretty knowledgeable. That and they do price matching. they have already offered the 800U to me for $1799. I have a lot of online pricing that I have been keeping track of. And I know they will do a decent job of trying to match some of the online pricing...so I may be able to get them down a little lower than that. Not to mention I don't have to worry about who is shipping it. So based upon which set I can get the best deal on...is which one I think I will end up with...I have already bought all of the mounting hardware and cables and stuff to hide the wiring...check out http://www.firefold.com/ I have been happy to this point with their selection, prices and quality....All I need now is the TV so I know where all the rest of the stuff I bought is going to be placed...LOL

dong....yes, plasmas do use more power...but I wias looking at the price difference between plasmas and comparable LCD's and it was around $500+. and the average cost to run the Plasma was $4/ month more than LCD. Now thats $48 per year or round up to $50 so it would take 10 years to make up the price difference in the TV's...So when all was said and done...I am not too concerned with the cost to run.... But heat is an issue that I have been considering...

DC....Thanks for your experiences with the Sony. Sony does make a great product...But I would only consider them if the comparable quality set matched the price of the Samsung and Panny's. To this point I haven't seen it...But I will keep looking...

Babe....So can you swing that deal for me???? I can't go DLP...My wife would kill me if I went that big and couldn't mount it up on the wall....actually 56" may be too big for this room(I know, I know blasphemy....there is no such thing...LOL)

Thanks for ther replies!!!

LOL! I had to work 4 years to get that deal. And 56" is a bit large for our room as well. But, I didn't have enough incentive points to get an LCD in a smaller size (I was hoping for around 46"). But, we very pleased with what we did get, nonetheless.

I have a 50" Samsung DLP for 2 years now, and Love it.

Panasonic plasmas are definitely the way to go in a flat screen unless you can afford a Pioneer plasma. I've had two, and I love them both. I bought both of them at the HH Gregg in Parma. When I bought the first, a 37", we got an HH Gregg credit card and got 12 months same as cash. When I sold that TV to my dad about a year later and bought a 42" Panny (TH-42PZ700U) they gave me that same same-as-cash deal on the new one, even though I was already an existing cardholder. The salesman also knocked several hundred bucks off the sale price, and I'm no haggler. I had a good experience with both of my plasma purchases from HH Gregg, so I feel comfortable recommending them. If you do go that route, see if you can get them to throw in a Tripp-Lite ISObar surge protector in with the deal. Just don't get suckered into buying expensive cabling.

Depending on where you work, your company might have EPP eligibility through Panasonic direct. I get it through my workplace and the prices are pretty good, if you don't mind ordering your TV as opposed to picking it up same day.

How far away will your screen be from the primary seating area? Use that to determine the size screen you should go with. I sit about 7-8 feet away and 42" is perfect.

pete, you still haven't described what you're looking for? do you want the 720p/1080i? 1080p? do you care about 60hz vs 120hz? what price range? is this just for hd channels or will it be used for video games/computer/hd movies?

fyi - a lot of the newer DLP systems are actually mountable, so that could be something to look into.

if you let me know what you're looking for and in what range, i can keep an eye out for you (something i do for plenty of people). to give you another idea, i had just seen that dell was selling a sharp 42" 1080p system for $601 online.

brownsbabe - i love dlp. i think it provides great color, especially truer blacks. i just don't like dealing with the bulbs. have you had to change yours yet?

I know several people who bought a lcd or plasma with the great idea of mounting it on the wall, but gave no thought to the concept of where the cords would go, so they have this real nice plasma TV, on the wall and a bunch of cords hanging down from it.

Might as well get a small stand if your not going to put in new outlets behind the TV.

dong...I am looking for a flat panel for wall mount purposes. I am looking in the 50" range(most of the LCD's will go 52"). I am looking for 1080p and if I go LCD I will definitely go 120Hz. It will be mainly used for Movies and daily use. It will have HD programming. It will not see much in the way of gaming. However, I will occasionaly connect my laptop to it to do a Large Picture frame kind of deal and other things for parties and such. I need at least 3 HDMI connections and a PC connection is nice but not a necessity as I can get the VGA to component cables if need be. As far as price I have a top end that I don't really want to go over $1800 but that doesn't mean if I find the 80U at say $1000 that I would pass it up for the 800U at $1800. Again it all depends on the deal. I would be comfortable with any of the models I mentioned in my first post. I would definitely consider others if their quality was shown to be in the same vicinity with the same price range...

At this point I am leaning towards the plasmas because of thier color and contrast. I do love the non reflectiveness and brightness of the LCD's...But there is a real quality to the picture that the plasmas posess that is is missing from the LCD's...It's hard to put your finger on it...you just see it...At least I do. But as I said I am not discounting them. I have seen GREAT pictures on the LCD's and if the price is right I would consider them. Unfortunately it is sort of a subjective thing in the end with the price vs quality of picture. And the values will be different for some than others...But I will definitely hear those other opinions and look into what they are saying and make my own determinations...

Out of curiosity...what do you require the 3 HDMI ports for? I'm guessing set-top box, DVD/Blu-Ray, and...?

yea it was a different model. here's the link to that thread:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?sduid=60868&t=1071506&highlight=sharp+dell

I have the ATT UVerse Box...I have home theater in a box setup(5 DVD player deal that will upscale so not totally useless) and then the Blu Ray Player. Granted there are ways around certain things but the easiest and best quality signal will come thru HDMI...