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Okay Shep.................
Name three areas as a HC that RAC has improved in during his four year tenure here?
That's what I thought.................
Yes, it would be nice to have a HC who could motivate and instill dicipline here. Who could develop and utilize the talent that's brought in. And one where you can see progress being made.
That's not a miracle to ask for. It's just accountability.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I never said anything about "no brainers."
He's made some good decisions, and some bad. Either way, he hasn't done enough good here for me to support keeping him. I see where his supporters are coming from, but, to me, he hasn't done enough in 4 years.
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BONAFIDE...Quality NFL Starters...
Everyone's bitchin' about the Coaching...Then the Players...
WHICH IS IT??????????
The entire team don't need up and down the roster top tier players...
The CORE is here...And will get better with this draft...
And I agree with your previous post as well!
Anybody wishing Savage gone?
They'll curse themselves when they see what a REAL NFL HC can do with the talent he's brought in!
They want to throw out the baby with the bath water.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"Any other good players on this team (Steinbach) was bought, any GM could have done that."
 And yet we had to wait 6 years for one to do so...
"Savage's drafts have been terrible. - In 5 years he has drafted one solid player - Joe Thomas. He lucked out with Josh Cribbs."
 I mean hate on Savage if you must but don't give us garbage for your reasoning.
Pool, DQ, EW, McD, Vickers, BQ, BE will be starters in this NFL for a long time - and possibly others that we just don't know about yet - Rubin, Harrison, Wimbley (under a new Attack D?), Rucker, Hall
That statement you mentioned was rediculous. Some people really ---- I'll stop there cause once upon a time we were allowed to call a spade a spade...no more 
Stop revising history.
JMHRequest.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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We've lost 10 or more games 3 out of the last 4 years. Let's keep Savage.
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Damn I must have missed the part where Savage was coaching those players. Look this team had enough talent to destroy the Giants this year. The coaching just wasn't there for the rest of the games. Its that simple.
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"We've lost 10 or more games 3 out of the last 4 years. Let's keep Savage."
Sorry thats a reflection of the coaching staff. We were COMPETITIVE in like 60 of the 64 games we played in that span....which is what a GM in charge of the personnel can all but do.
Take this season for example...which game were we not competitive and proven that with the talent that we had we Could have won the game. I saw one - the Opener against the Cowboys. And who's fault was that??? Savage's again as in preparing the team for your home opener???
You proved nothing with that stat. Throwing a correct stat out there is fine and dandy. But it has no substance to the subject matter at hand. The question regarding Savage's job is...how many games were we competitive in...something we just were not consistently prior to him coming here and giving us a talent base that we just never had before.
But thanks for countering all those drafted players I named...you convinced me
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Damn I must have missed the part where Savage was coaching those players. Look this team had enough talent to destroy the Giants this year. The coaching just wasn't there for the rest of the games. Its that simple.
I missed that part too!
Funny, we GET talent but it isn't developed, motivated or utilised well and somehow that's the GM's fault?
What sport are we discussing again?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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We've lost 10 or more games 3 out of the last 4 years. Let's keep Savage.
We have won two games against .500 or better teams, are winless against Pittsburgh, and have consistently had one of the worst defenses in the league and now an offense that couldn't score on Ignatius. Woe is me.
Joe Thomas, Vickers, Jackson, Edwards, are really the only players that would start for a lot of other teams from his drafts. I would hope so considering two of them are the #3 pick and Jackson the #34 pick. Poole is close.. and besides last season....you could make a case that Edwards hasn't lived up to the #3 billing, but he is a talent when he catches the ball.. Wimbley with the #13 pick is so far the biggest bust of his drafts..almost non-existant.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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No HC with any scruples will let his feelings be known until RAC is gone.
It's kind of a lost art. It's called..............class.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Yes Phil Savage drafted guys that can start in the NFL. But how many players from his draft are "difference makers"?
Even the Lions have to field 22 starters. It doesn't make them good though.
Braylon Edwards looked like for awhile he could be the next Terrell Owens.
But this year he's took a 180 degree turn.
We'll never know about the young CB's in McDonald and Wright because Savage has never built a front 7 that can that put the pressure on a QB or stop the run.
Put the Browns CB's in Pittsburgh and you have 2 potential All-Pro's.
The only LB that Savage drafted that looks promising is Jackson....and he's a better fit for a 4-3 scheme anyhow.
Kamerion Wimbley lacks that killer instinct and intangibles to get to the next level.
Savage has assembled some talent..just not enough to get past the Steelers.
Under Savage and Crennel the Browns are just not competetive within the AFC North.....thats enough to let both go.
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Sorry thats a reflection of the coaching staff. We were COMPETITIVE in like 60 of the 64 games we played in that span....which is what a GM in charge of the personnel can all but do.
Take this season for example...which game were we not competitive and proven that with the talent that we had we Could have won the game. I saw one - the Opener against the Cowboys. And who's fault was that??? Savage's again as in preparing the team for your home opener???
I'm sorry but "competitive" just doesn't get it.
Most bad teams "compete". Also, it depends on what you mean by "competing".
This year we lost games by:
18
4
18
3
10
4
10
4
19
20
14
I would count anything 7 points ot below as a "competitive" game ..... as the game could have turned on a particular play or 2. By that standard, we had 7 "non competitive" losses this year alone. What is "competitive"? Is it a 2 score loss? 3 scores? Is it blowing a game in the 4th quarter? What definition do you use to get to less than 4 games being non competitive?
To me it's not enough for a team to be in the game for 2 or 3 quarters to somehow prove "competitiveness". Many bad teams can compete for part of a game. How often do we see a bad team hang with a good team through the 1st half ..... then get taken apart after halftime? Good teams finish. Good teams are consistent. Bad teams play "what if" and scenario games to try to prove that they're "not that far away".
This is a bad team. In need of a total blowup? Probably not. In need of 6 or 7 new starters? Probably. In need of new leadership? Definitely.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Yeah stats dude, yeah, I did that already, the stats are on page 3. Here, I'll post them again for you.
Since Phil Savage left Baltimore, they have won a division title in 2006 and they are set for a playoff run in 2008.
When Romeo Crennell was in New England, they won 3 Superbowls. Since Romeo Crennell left New England, they have lost a divisional playoff game, an AFC championship game, and a Superbowl. - All thanks to a shaky defense.
More on Phil Savage, and Crennell.
- He's been here since 2005 and we haven't won the division once.
- We haven't made the playoffs once.
- We had one good year in '07, in case you didn't notice it was with one of the easiest schedules in the league.- Again, we didn't make the playoffs.
As for Savage's drafts : 2005 - Edwards- unproven, Frye - bust, Pool- unproven, Antonio Perkins - bust, David McMillen- bust, Nick Speegle.
2006 Wimbley- unproven, Dqwell - unproven, Jerious Norwood- bust, Leon Williams- unproven, Jerome Harrison - good pick, L. Vickers - good pick, Oshinowo- bust, Hamilton - bust.
You can look up the rest for yourself. - The last two drafts are filled with a bunch more unproven players with maybe 1 or 2 good picks (depending on how Quinn pans out)
Now tell me, of those players that Savage drafted, which have gone on to stardom elsewhere?
Connect the dots dude. - Poor drafting, poor decisions as gm (getting rid of Faine, Brian Russell), equals 3 seasons with 10 or more losses, and zero playoff appearances.
Keep connecting the dots and you'll find that Baltimore has been just fine without Savage.
You wanted stats, you got'em.
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Quote:
Quote:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/WWHI/2008/wwhi121508.htm
Latest buzz on Browns
Cowher, Schottenheimer heavy favorites to replace Crennel
According to this video, Schottenheimer looks pretty happy where he is right now...
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80c8b8a0
and then the report by jay glazer today on fox saying cowher not coaching in 09 and no amount of money would entice him to coach the browns
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Would it shock anybody if Crennel stayed and they hired someone (Pioli)
whom RAC had a great relationship with? Lerner wanted continuity.
Way out there sure...but this is Cleveland.
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Quote:
Would it shock anybody if Crennel stayed and they hired someone (Pioli)
whom RAC had a great relationship with? Lerner wanted continuity.
Way out there sure...but this is Cleveland.
I was actually thinking this... The New England connection?? I think it would work. I'm for it. 
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Quote:
Quote:
Would it shock anybody if Crennel stayed and they hired someone (Pioli)
whom RAC had a great relationship with? Lerner wanted continuity.
Way out there sure...but this is Cleveland.
I was actually thinking this... The New England connection?? I think it would work. I'm for it.
Check this out:
Crennel to meet with Browns owner; GM also tenuous
ESPN.com news services
Updated: December 28, 2008, 3:34 PM ET
Comment
Email
Print
Report: Browns To Ask Crennel, Savage To Step Down
CLEVELAND -- Romeo Crennel will meet with owner Randy Lerner on Monday, heightening the likelihood the Browns' embattled coach will be fired one day after Cleveland concludes its dismal season.
Lerner, who also is mulling general manager Phil Savage's fate, wanted to wait until after the season out of respect for Crennel, who carried a 24-39 record in four seasons into Sunday's finale against Pittsburgh. Crennel also was 0-7 against the archrival Steelers and just 5-18 inside the AFC North.
Crennel may get an opportunity to stay with the team as defensive coordinator, according to a report in The Plain Dealer of Cleveland.
If the Browns are unable to persuade Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher, now a CBS NFL analyst, or Patriots vice president Scott Pioli to join the Browns, Savage could be asked to retain the job, NFL sources told ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen.
Savage was informed earlier this week he may not be part of the process in looking for a new Browns coach -- an indicator that Savage is on thin ice, sources told Mortensen.
Crennel and Savage likely will be asked to step down from their current positions as early as Monday, the Cleveland newspaper reported.
AFC North
ESPN.com's James Walker writes about all things AFC North in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
But Crennel could be offered the defensive coordinator job if Pioli were hired as GM, The Plain Dealer reported.
The Browns entered the season with playoff expectations following a 10-6 record in 2007, but a slew of injuries, including season-ending ones to quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, contributed to Cleveland's alarming slide. The Browns went into Sunday's matchup without an offensive touchdown in five games and were forced to start Bruce Gradkowski -- their fourth starting QB of 2008 -- against the NFL's top-rated defense.
In January, Lerner gave Crennel an extension through the 2011 season, a deal worth nearly $12 million.
The Browns, who went 10-6 last season, fell to 4-11 last Sunday with a 14-0 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals.
Lerner would prefer his next hire to be an experienced coach. He will make a strong run at Cowher, who resigned from the Steelers after the 2006 season. Cowher played linebacker for the Browns in the early 1980s and served as an assistant coach with Cleveland from 1985 to 1988.
If Cowher doesn't come to Cleveland -- and there's no current indications he's ready to return to coaching -- the Browns may interview some of the league's top coordinators, including Steve Spagnuolo of the New York Giants, Tennessee's Jim Schwartz, Baltimore's Rex Ryan and New England's Josh McDaniels.
Savage's future could hinge on the Browns' ability to lure Cowher back into coaching. Cowher likely would want to have complete control over the 53-man roster, and Savage has said that power is the reason he came to Cleveland three years ago from Baltimore, where he was the Ravens' director of player personnel.
Savage has significantly upgraded Cleveland's talent during his tenure, which began one month before Crennel was hired in 2005. The Browns had six Pro Bowlers last season, their first selections since 2002, and one of the NFL's most explosive offenses.
But Savage has not managed the team to Lerner's satisfaction. He mishandled tight end Kellen Winslow's hospitalization for a staph infection and embarrassed the Browns by sending a profane e-mail to a fan following a win over Buffalo.
Savage also received a contract extension through 2012 in May.
It is not yet known when Savage will meet with Lerner for his season-ending review.
Information from The Associated Press and ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen was used in this report.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3795786
I for one would not agree with this.. If Crennel gets fired, he needs to go, period..
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Quote:
Cleveland Browns official says team will not rush into decisions on Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter
The title of the original story for this thread is above.
I don't know when the /Monday??, was added to the title of this thread, but if Crennel is fired tomorrow, it would appear that the original intent of the organization, to use a take it slow approach, changed somewhere between Dec 10th and now.
Interesting ...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Quote:
Quote:
Cleveland Browns official says team will not rush into decisions on Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter
The title of the original story for this thread is above.
I don't know when the /Monday??, was added to the title of this thread, but if Crennel is fired tomorrow, it would appear that the original intent of the organization, to use a take it slow approach, changed somewhere between Dec 10th and now.
Interesting ...
One concern of mine is that Randy will think..and think..and think..and think himself right out of the running for a possible candidate.
If there are dismissals coming, do them and allow those who think they might be candidates time to consider their current situations.
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Id like to keep Rac as a DC but doubt that would happen
#brownsgoodkarma
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Quote:
Quote:
Would it shock anybody if Crennel stayed and they hired someone (Pioli)
whom RAC had a great relationship with? Lerner wanted continuity.
Way out there sure...but this is Cleveland.
I was actually thinking this... The New England connection?? I think it would work. I'm for it.
It's an awful idea.
If we do that, we may as well keep Savage, because it'll look the same on the football field.
Get either someone who has been a successful GM before, who is older, or you get an experienced coach, who has won games as a head coach. You can't keep doing this first timer stuff again, because we have proven time and time again that it just does not work.
And I think Randy had plenty of time to assess Romeo's performance this season. Look at the record, look at how the team acted, and look how he gave up. This should be a quick and swift house cleaning.
you had a good run Hank.
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Most of that is stuff that has been bantered around on here for weeks now.. the only new thing thats in there is that RAC may have an opportunity to stay on as DC? Not sure that's a particularly bright idea?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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and then the report by jay glazer today on fox saying cowher not coaching in 09 and no amount of money would entice him to coach the browns
GOOD!! Why would any Browns fan want Cowher here?? It would seem that this once proud franchise has lost it's pride.
Cowher in Claveland makes me puke!!!
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He can't be gone soon enough,....DC is no problem for me under some good leadership.
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I don't know when the /Monday??, was added to the title of this thread,
When I started a thread last night with the article from Mary Kay detailing that both RAC and Savage would be asked to step down/take lesser roles.
It was merged in with this thread.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Most of that is stuff that has been bantered around on here for weeks now.. the only new thing thats in there is that RAC may have an opportunity to stay on as DC? Not sure that's a particularly bright idea?
Bad , very bad idea ... I will take a wait and see attitude .. I " HOPE " Randy has learned his lesson ...
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It wouldn't surprise me if Savage is already out.
Read between the lines here.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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When Romeo steps off the bus at CBS, the stadium should be surrounded by Tenable Security, not allowing Romeo to step foot on the property, and then Randy Lerner walking up to him, looking like Heratio Cane, ask him for his keys, put on his sun glasses, turn his head, and say "Don't bother calling me Romeo.. I'll be busy looking for a real head coach"
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When Romeo steps off the bus at CBS, the stadium should be surrounded by Tenable Security, not allowing Romeo to step foot on the property, and then Randy Lerner walking up to him, looking like Heratio Cane, ask him for his keys, put on his sun glasses, turn his head, and say "Don't bother calling me Romeo.. I'll be busy looking for a real head coach"
That's pretty cold. I agree the guy needs to go; it's better for everyone but please treat him with some dignity.
#GMSTRONG
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We shall find out rather quickly , me thinks ..
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Micheal Reghi of 850 WKNR just reported that a NFL source in Pittsburgh has stated,that Phil Savage was told by Randy Lerner he is no longer needed.
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Just heard the same thing. Said it happened at 5:10 p.m.
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Wow , now that's what I call fast ( if so )..
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WOW,, if true, this is happening fast... very very fast...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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We just set a RECORD TODAY!!! An all time record for the NFL!!!
Speaking for most Browns fans out there... this is by far the most humiliating season I have ever experienced. And on top of that, we set a record for going 24 quarters without scoring a touchdown. No team has ever done that. Not even the hapless Saints or the Winless Bucks.
....and you want me to treat him with dignity?
WITH DIGNITY?.... We were the ones that were treated indignite. We were the ones that had to leave CBS with our heads hung low, wondering what just happened... time and time again.
You go ahead and treat him with dignity...
I happen to like my scenario.
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Micheal Reghi of 850 WKNR just reported that a NFL source in Pittsburgh has stated,that Phil Savage was told by Randy Lerner he is no longer needed.
Wow...
Doesn't matter to me...
I think Savage did okay, but he traded TOO many draft picks away. Some were okay, but some didn't make sense.
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I agree, I think Savage did alright. Now Romeo is another story. If it has to happen, I'm glad it's happening fast. This means we can move on sooner.....
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I have to say I am somewhat disappointed Savage is gone, but not surprised. He doesn't have the "god" type of track record on personnell decisions that some are giving, and he's apparently been difficult to work with as well (if the reports coming out are true).
I think what you will see come out is that Lerner wanted him to relinquish roster control (which I agree with), and Phil said no. At that point, Lerner really didn't have much of a choice but to get rid of him.
I hate it, because I do think Phil had potential, but I am not going to cry over it either.............because he wasn't a god he was made out to be by some of the fans either.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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And focus on the draft, and free agency.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns will not rush into
decisions on RAC and Savage/Maybe
Monday??
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