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I like Savage and I think he should stay on. But, I will say that some of his acquisitions made me scratch my head. Baxter was way overpaid. Stallworth was way overpaid. He even inquired about moving up to pick Jamarcus Russell, who I think is a total bust. Now, that might have been something that all teams do, and if so, my apologies.
But it seems like he was willing to throw money at a few guys like Stallworth and Baxter just because they had big names or were guys he was familiar with.
JMHO
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Somewhat ironic.
I still think Lerner remembers how Savage forced his had in the Collins deal.
I think by letting Savage go first, Lerner is sticking it to Savage a bit for that, and as a way to make sure Romeo knows that he (Lerner) doesn't think Romeo is the total reason for this team falling apart as badly as it did.
Mr. Savage played his cards foolishly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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Savage IMO did a good job for us. Traded some picks for some tested key players. The only real busts were Stallworth, (wow... what a pos) and Williams. Otherwise I think most of his talent search was at least on par with the rest of the league and maybe a little ahead. The Thomas/Quinn draft was exceptional. Hope all this BS about him leaving is just that...
BS
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The fan email &K2 situation did him in. Without those Savage could have survived but you cant embarrass the owner.
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Quote:
We just set a RECORD TODAY!!! An all time record for the NFL!!!
Speaking for most Browns fans out there... this is by far the most humiliating season I have ever experienced. And on top of that, we set a record for going 24 quarters without scoring a touchdown. No team has ever done that. Not even the hapless Saints or the Winless Bucks.
....and you want me to treat him with dignity?
WITH DIGNITY?.... We were the ones that were treated indignite. We were the ones that had to leave CBS with our heads hung low, wondering what just happened... time and time again.
You go ahead and treat him with dignity...
I happen to like my scenario.
There guy was there and he tried his best. It wasn't an adequate effort for the teams needs but the team should and will I would surmise, show a little class when dismissing someone that's done the best they could. Which is why the speculation is they are going to offer him something other than HC.
I'm sorry you're so bitter that you have to humiliate someone to feel better.
#GMSTRONG
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WEWS, Channel 5 here in cleveland is comfirming that Savage has been let go..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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I don't understand why Savage is gone.....this team is so much more talented on paper than the team was when Savage took over in 2005.
A GM is responsible for how a team looks on paper, the coach is responsible for turning Paper into wins.
Savage did his job, Romeo fell through.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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I agree. I'm kind of upset about this.
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Quote:
I don't understand why Savage is gone.....this team is so much more talented on paper than the team was when Savage took over in 2005.
A GM is responsible for how a team looks on paper, the coach is responsible for turning Paper into wins.
Savage did his job, Romeo fell through.
~Lyuokdea
Its the GM's job to make sure he gets guys that will more than just names on paper, and that will actually contribute and help get W's.
Why in the world is Ken Dorsey on the roster?
Why in the world is Jason Wright on this roster?
Why do we have like 4/5 TE's on the roster?
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because savage is a scout..nothing less, nothing more...he can identify talent decently..but he does not know how to run a team, which unfortunetly for him is also part of a GM responsibility
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Quote:
I don't understand why Savage is gone.....this team is so much more talented on paper than the team was when Savage took over in 2005.
A GM is responsible for how a team looks on paper, the coach is responsible for turning Paper into wins.
Savage did his job, Romeo fell through.
~Lyuokdea
For the reasons I have outlined several times for over a year.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Me as well. Our football team is way, way, way, better now then it was whe Botch was here. We have the talent. We just needed someone to tell them what to do.
Last edited by dawgbreath01; 12/28/08 07:19 PM.
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Quote:
Why in the world is Jason Wright on this roster?
Great special teams player.
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What this tells me is Pioli is on his way here.
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Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world is Jason Wright on this roster?
Great special teams player.
No... Joshua Cribbs is a GREAT special teams player. Get it right!
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Cleveland Browns official says team will not rush into decisions on Romeo Crennel and Phil Savage
Wednesday, December 10, 2008
Tony Grossi
Plain Dealer Reporter
The title of the original story for this thread is above.
I don't know when the /Monday??, was added to the title of this thread, but if Crennel is fired tomorrow, it would appear that the original intent of the organization, to use a take it slow approach, changed somewhere between Dec 10th and now.
Interesting ...
One concern of mine is that Randy will think..and think..and think..and think himself right out of the running for a possible candidate.
If there are dismissals coming, do them and allow those who think they might be candidates time to consider their current situations.
mutt...Since the original story indicated the Browns would move slow, in making changes and now all of a sudden, we find out Crennel could be fired tomorrow and Savage "may" already be gone, I would say your concern of Lerner dragging his feet might be unfounded, unless you wanted people fired today?
Last edited by mac; 12/28/08 07:21 PM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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And it looks like Savage was. LOL
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Thanks Mac. My preference would be that all is running well and nobody gets canned!  But yes Randy dragging his feet can be deleted from my "worry" list for sure!
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Well according to multiple media reports.............Savage did get fired today. So yeah I'd say mutt's concerns seem to be unfounded...lol.
I have to think this thing between Phil and Randy is somewhat personal for him to fire him that quick, but wait on firing the HC.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
And it looks like Savage was. LOL
Peen...no confirmation from any sources yet...just hear say.
I just checked the Browns home page...nothing there.
So far all we have is people "saying" Savage is gone.
I did read a story that I can not remember where I was reading it from that Savage was told a day or so ago he would not be needed in the search for a new head coach.
But again, that is just someone "saying" something.
When we do get a "source", then we can consider the news "creditable"
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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I wouldn't believe an independent read from pro football talk, but when it's backed up by 2 radio station and a tv station.....then yeah I'd say Phil is toast. Your not going to read anything on the site until tomorrow when they give an official press release.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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Quote:
Savage did his job,
Did he? I mean when all you can say is that on paper, the team is better than it was when he got here, I wonder if that's enough? I'm not certain it is.
And as for those that feel as if the talent was there and RAC couldn't find a way to make it work,, OK, but who's the top football man in the organization? Savage is which means the bucks stops at his desk.
Not that it's the sole reason, but couple the lack of success with savages recent outburst via email, and I think his stock has dropped significantly enough that you could make a strong case for firing him.
To me, as much as I hate to see wholesale change,, it might be the only way to fix this mess.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
Well according to multiple media reports.............Savage did get fired today. So yeah I'd say mutt's concerns seem to be unfounded...lol.
I have to think this thing between Phil and Randy is somewhat personal for him to fire him that quick, but wait on firing the HC.
Willie...I would not interpret any moves as being "personal" on Randy Lerner's part. He hired a coach and GM to turn his franchise into winners and they did not get the job done.
If everyone remembers the last time the Browns made these kind of changes, it was a slow agonizing process that saw many of the best assistant coaches hire quickly, after the season ended.
Maybe Randy Lerner learned his lesson based on the fact that the Browns had to wait for Crennel to end the season, which for the Patriots included winning the Super Bowl before the Browns could officially hire him. I believe the date was Feb 8th, 2005 when Crennel was hired and then he and Savage began putting together the coaching staff with those left over after all the other teams had gotten theirs.
The Browns were last in filling many of their assistant coaching positions and it did hurt the team, IMO. Two years later, we ripped up the offense and brought in a new one.
Just a guess on my part, but Lerner either learned some good lessons from past mistakes or he's getting some good advice from someone.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I understand mac.
But...WTAM is the flagship station..they aren't going to go with something with no lead to it....and i don't think News 5 is either.
It doesn't have to come from the Browns site to make it true.
But....I agree....everybody could be wrong.....I just doubt it...people didn't know who "deepthroat" was until 7-8 years ago.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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If we were talking about firing the HC I would agree with you. However, considering the HC is still here while the GM got his papers 60 minutes after the last whistle then I tend to think it's more than wanting to get a good start. I could be wrong, and we could just be dumping the old to get an early jump on Cower, but I just don't see how firing Savage virtually immediately (while retaining the HC at the moment) is beneficial in that regard.
shrug....We'll probably never know, but I have to think that there is an under current of issues between the two to make it happen so quickly.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I got a few texts about this. Savage is gone. RAC will meet with Lerner and while no one knows what Lerner's thinking, what I have heard is that RAC is going to make a pretty good case to remain. We all know that, but from what I heard, it was suggested that RAC is going to go so far as to sit and show film to Lerner of players being in position to make plays and not executing. His thought process, aparently, is that the scheme has been ineffective because of lack of execution...and bases that on talent deficiencies. Will it work? No one knows. I doubt it.
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Thanks Coach....I think he can make a pretty good case myself, but I doubt that it is enough to stay. Randy is pretty public opinion conscience, and the fan base would go ape nuts if RAC stays and the golden boy got the ax alone.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I agree with you, but RAC is so well respected by Lerner, who knows what will end up happening. He very well may stay with the organization in a capacity not involved in coaching. RAC fell on the sord all season long. He took the heat for many things that weren't his fault He handled himself with class and with dignity. That is why Lerner is showing him the respect of meeting with him before making a final decision.
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Browns make it official: GM Phil Savage is fired
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter
Sunday December 28, 2008, 6:39 PM
Chuck Crow/The Plain DealerBrowns GM Phil Savage was fired on Sunday after failing to get the team to the playoffs in his four years with the organization.
PITTSBURGH -- The Phil Savage era as Browns general manager is over.
Shortly after the Browns completed a 4-12 season with a 31-0 loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers, the Browns confirmed that Savage was fired.
Owner Randy Lerner made the decision prior to the game. A source said the decision was based on problems with Savage's communication and leadership skills.
Lerner is hoping to recruit former Pittsburgh Steelers coach Bill Cowher or New England vice president Scott Pioli to head his revamped football operation. According to a source, Lerner was absent from the game because he was lining up a busy week of interviews this week.
He is expected to meet face-to-face this week with Cowher, who has been telling everyone that he does not intend to return to coaching in 2009.
Lerner also could do personal interviews with a couple of NFL assistant coaches to comply with the league's mandate to interview at least one minority for a head coaching vacancy. The Browns may interview Buffalo defensive coordinator Perry Fewell and Washington defensive coordinator Greg Blache.
The Browns also want to interview New York Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo in the "window" allotted by the NFL with the Giants on a postseason bye week.
In May, Savage agreed to a three-year contract extension through 2012.
Savage had a more tumultuous year than his team in 2008. He made several public comments that applied pressure on his coaching staff, got involved in a messy spat with tight end Kellen Winslow over a suspension that ultimately was rescinded, and responded to a disgruntled fan in an email that contained an expletive.
In four years with Savage as general manager, the Browns were 24-40. The team was 25-40 with one playoff appearance in the four years prior to Savage.
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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If he sits and shows Lerner that players were in position but didn't execute he'd be correct. - Braylon's drop against Baltimore, and a dropped int by Mcdonald during one of Denver's late scoring drives come to mind. - I remember saying to my wife that these guys are in position, but they can't catch the dang ball.
I hope we get a new gm, and keep RAC.
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Yes, it would be corect. I've ben saying that all season. The players are put in a position to succeed but haven't executed. However, that doesn't excuse some of the mistakes RAC has made. The question is are his mistakes large enough in Lerner's mind to let him go or can he succeed with a new GM and some experienced coaches? That's an answer no one knows but Lerner himself.
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I absolutely positively want RAC gone. I don't want to live through another season of uninspired football. Sure, they fired Savage, but Savage isn't the one coaching this team. If they aren't executing then that's on the coaches' shoulders. Not the GM's This team has almost enough talent to go somewhere.
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Coach I am throwing out strictly hypothetical s here, but let's say the following things happen....
1. Lerner calls Cower today (which I think he's done) and finds out that Cower is indeed not interested....won't even meet him.
2. Talks to Pioli (sp?) and finds out he is interested.
3. Listens to RAC tommorow, and runs what he saw and thinks by Pioli, and SP says he has no problem with RAC being on board (considering his ties to RAC at NE)
Man that is a fairly realistic scenerio that RAC could stay on as HC. That would ... off so many of the "fans" who have been demanding change around here...lol. It will make me laugh if the guy they all wanted gone stays, and their "golden boy" is the head that got served up...lol.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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How is Braylon dropping passes on Romeo?
How is Anderson's turnovers on Romeo?
How is Jamal's studder stepping on Romeo?
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They have position coaches coaching these players don't they ? These coaches report to Romeo don't they ?
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Again... Quote:
How is Braylon dropping passes on Romeo?
How is Anderson's turnovers on Romeo?
How is Jamal's studder stepping on Romeo?
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I think that is very possible, but not likely. I think that if we hire Cowher, he has total control. If we hire Pioli, which I would prefer, McDaniels becomes our Head Coach.
It is a shame that we are now starting over without someone I feel has done a good job.
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Do you stutter ? lol I'm not argue with you, I want someone new who is not Romeo Crennel.
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NE gets into the dance so Pioli is still off limits is he not?
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Most of them where hired by Savage.....weren't they??
Listen I am not happy that Savage is gone either, but to blame all of this mess at RACs feet when we had a GM who flat out said he wasn't drafting players to fit the HCs scheme is just silly. Both should shoulder the blame, but the problem is only RAC has had the sack to do so.
Phil did alot of nice things here, but considering some of the reports that have begun leaking out over the past few months running a functional organization wasn't one of them. Oh and that IS part of the GMs job.
Like i said, I am not happy that Phil is gone, but I am not overly upset about it either.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns will not rush into
decisions on RAC and Savage/Maybe
Monday??
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