DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum INDIANS - Gutierrez Traded

I really liked Gut, but hopefully this move will really help strengthen our pen.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/ar...sp&c_id=cle

Tribe deals Gutierrez in three-way swap
Righty Smith to join 'pen; outfielder sent to Seattle
By Anthony Castrovince / MLB.com

LAS VEGAS -- Mark Shapiro wasn't dressed for this.
The Indians general manager stepped to the podium at the Bellagio around 12:30 a.m. ET on Thursday, flanked by Mets GM Omar Minaya and Mariners GM Jeff Zduriencik.

"You can tell the guy that didn't expect to make an announcement," Shapiro said, "because he didn't pack a sport coat."

That guy would be Shapiro, whose part in the three-team, 12-player behemoth of a deal announced at the Winter Meetings came together very quickly Wednesday afternoon. With the signing of Kerry Wood a passed physical away from completion, Shapiro's Indians moved to their next order of business. They became a facilitator in the Mets' acquisition of Mariners closer J.J. Putz as a setup man for the newly acquired Francisco Rodriguez.

What the deal boiled down to, from the Indians' perspective, was the acquisition of infielder Luis Valbuena from the Mariners and right-handed reliever Joe Smith from the Mets, in exchange for outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

Rounding out the deal, the Mets received Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and right-hander Sean Green from Seattle. The Mariners got Gutierrez from the Indians and, from the Mets, right-hander Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and four Minor Leaguers -- first baseman Mike Carp, right-hander Maikel Cleto, left-hander Jason Vargas and outfielder Ezekiel Carrera.

The trade came together because of the Mets' interest in Putz, the Mariners' interest in Gutierrez, the regular communication between Shapiro and his good friend Minaya and the Tribe's recent talks with Seattle regarding Putz.

And it came together in a hurry.

"It really did come together remarkably quickly," Shapiro said, "with a lot of back lay work leading up to it."

The Indians don't think their work is done. While Smith will immediately join the Tribe's big league bullpen, the club is not announcing Valbuena as the solution to its hole in the infield. Rather, Valbuena is viewed, for now, as an upper-level prospect who adds depth to a thin area in the organization -- the middle infield.

Valbuena, 23, got his first call to the Majors in '08, though he began the year in Double-A. He played in 18 games for Seattle at second base and shortstop, batting .245 (12-for-49) with five double and one RBI.

In four Minor League seasons, Valbuena has compiled a .270 batting average with 39 homers, 203 RBIs, a .346 on-base percentage and 64 stolen bases.

"We like his bat quite a bit," Shapiro said. "We feel he has a chance to be an average defender and an average runner. Obviously, he was on a very fast path last year. At the very least, he's going to be a guy who provides depth at some point next year."

The Indians have a need in their infield, with the flexibility to shift shortstop Jhonny Peralta to third base and second baseman Asdrubal Cabrera to short. The Indians have hinted that they might acquire a player to complement Jamey Carroll as a second utility man, and the left-handed-hitting Valbuena could emerge as the guy. But for now the club will continue to look for a more proven infield commodity.

"Depending upon how the rest of the offseason transpires, there's a possibility [Valbuena] could impact our big league situation out of Spring Training," Shapiro said. "But the intent of acquiring him was recognizing our lack of middle-infield depth."

Smith, on the other hand, has a secure spot, one he's earned by making an impact in the Mets' bullpen the last two seasons.

The 24-year-old Smith has made 136 appearances with the Mets over the last two years, compiling a 9-5 record and 3.51 ERA. In 2008, he was 6-3 with a 3.55 ERA, striking out 52 batters and walking 31 in 63 1/3 innings over 82 appearances. Smith uses a submarine delivery, so he's most effective against right-handers, who have hit .223 off him in his career.

Shapiro said the Indians have been interested in Smith, a Cincinnati native, since he was an amateur at Wright State University. The Mets took Smith in the third round of the 2006 First-Year Player Draft.

"He's had an extremely fast path to the Major Leagues," Shapiro said. "To get there as quick as he did and pitch in that kind of environment, he has a good heartbeat. He'll give us a different look and complement our guys well. I think he'll continue to develop and improve and contribute in the back end."

Gutierrez, who was acquired in the 2004 trade that sent Milton Bradley to the Dodgers, has made the last of his contributions. The Indians loved what he brought to them from a defensive standpoint, but they have depth in the outfield with Grady Sizemore, Shin-Soo Choo, Ben Francisco and David Dellucci in the big-league mix and Matt LaPorta, Michael Brantley and Trevor Crowe all expected to be at Triple-A Columbus next year.

And though Gutierrez helped spark the Indians to a division title in the second half of the 2007 season, his ongoing struggles with the breaking ball were a concern. He has put up a .258 average with 22 homers and 85 RBIs over the last four seasons.

Shapiro had nothing but good things to say about Gutierrez.

"We're trading a guy we think is going to be a very good Major League center fielder," Shapiro said. "But we have a pretty good center fielder in Grady Sizemore, so [Gutierrez] has got more value to someone else that would give him a chance to play center field than he does to us."

And in a blockbuster trade that came together remarkably fast, Shapiro found a taker and found a pair of players he's happy with.

The only thing he didn't find was a sport coat.

Anthony Castrovince is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

I just hope they find their power hitting righty (hopefully LaPorta) and one more starting pitcher. i dont like whats on the market and still think the Indians have enough young talent to acquire Peavy.

Peavy is going to the Cubs. There is a trade in the works that should be announced in a few days.

And plus, Peavy doesn't have Cleveland on the list of teams he'd accept a trade to.

I hate losing Guetz, heck of an outfielder, but to get quality you must give up quality, I just hope we got quality, Dont know enough about Smith to form a judgment only from his stats which look pretty darn good, So we got smith to set up and Woods to close.

Perez & Smith as set up, Where does that leave Benticourt ? any comments thoughts.

I do see us trying to sign a low wage starter like a Josh Fogg or somebody to get us thru until May or June to see if any of these young guys we have can step it up. If the starter is doing good great keep him if not than cut the ties with him and pop in a young gun who is doing well.

j/c

I liked Gutierrez, but with Francisco and Choo to be out there with Sizemore, and the hitting that those three do, I like our outfield. I'd rather get a little infield help and some 'pen help.

As far as Choo, I heard he was going back to Korea for his mandatory 1-year service in the military after this next season. I know it's one whole year away but that leaves us empty (unless we can convert LaPorta into a RF or something....and didn't we get another outfielder in the CC trade?).

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I liked Gutierrez, but with Francisco and Choo to be out there with Sizemore, and the hitting that those three do, I like our outfield. I'd rather get a little infield help and some 'pen help.

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Dont forget Delluci

Guts sucked, good riddance he's gone. we need more than a defender in right field, especially all the time he was starting.

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Guts sucked, good riddance he's gone. we need more than a defender in right field, especially all the time he was starting.

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Common...Dont hold back...Tell us how you really feel.

yeah, it was a real shame to have the best assist OF in MLB last year (and he did that despite the fact that he only played parttime).

i hate when we have the best at something...at least Frankie-G could defend. Exactly what can Choo do really well?

I do hope this move works out for the Tribe, but just have the feeling it is another Phillips / Kouzmanoff type move that we will be regretting.

i don't know enough about the guys coming in to make a fair judgment, but i think gutz had some value, the guy isn't an all star by any account, but he was a decent player that still had room to improve...

but if this smith guy can be a good bullpen pitcher, i think the move was probably the right thing to do, if we had any kind of bullpen last year, we are no doubt in a race for the central.

true, this is why I am hoping it works out for the Tribe.

my concern is that recently Shapiro has made good trades when trading away assets for random pieces...but bad trades when he has chased a specific need.

now, I understand you have to trade for specific needs at times. It is just that Shapiro has proven to overpay and end up failing in recent history when he has done so.

a couple examples:
Kouz for Barfield to fill the 2B hole left by Phillips
Crisp/Mota for Marte to fill the 3B hole left by Kouz

i think we overpaid for kerry wood, in my opinion...

at 10 a year, why didn't they go the extra mile and make a run at k-rod?

dolan tells the papers a few weeks ago that they will be active in free agency, that some kind of splash will be made, if kerry wood is what he meant, that will further people's beliefs that dolan is a cheapskate....

when u talk of making a "splash", there has to be an impact player involved, kerry wood could be a good piece, but he's not the guy that qualifies as a splash.

Decided to look up the past couple years of trades Shapiro has made. Overall decent and I was impressed what he could get for Blake this past year and that he could get anything for Byrd.

That said, his first few years were marked by trades that ended up being steals for the Tribe (Colon for Sizemore/Phillips/Lee...nothing for Hafner) and he hasn't had one of those yet. Well...hopefully he did with either Blake or CC last year and we just can't evaluate it that way yet.

1/17/2006 Brian Tallet FOR Bubbie Buzachero
1/27/2006 Coco Crisp, David Riske and Josh Bard FOR
Guillermo Mota, Andy Marte, Kelly Shoppach, cash and a PTBNL: Randy Newsom
1/27/2006 Arthur Rhodes FOR Jason Michaels
2/18/2006 Andy Tracy FOR Future Considerations
4/4/2006 Kazuhito Tadano FOR Ramon Alvarado
4/7/2006 Brandon Phillips FOR PTBNL: Jeff Stevens
5/14/2006 Steve Karsay FOR Cash
6/4/2006 Jose Flores FOR Cash
6/21/2006 Jason Johnson FOR Cash
6/30/2006 Eduardo Perez FOR Asdrubal Cabrera
7/18/2006 Mike Adams FOR Brian Sikorski
7/20/2006 Bob Wickman FOR Max Ramirez
7/26/2006 Ben Broussard and cash FOR Shin-Soo Choo and a PTBNL: Shawn Nottingham
7/30/2006 Ronnie Belliard FOR Hector Luna
8/9/2006 Todd Hollandsworth FOR Cash
8/12/2006 Einar Diaz FOR Cash
8/20/2006 Guillermo Mota FOR Future Considerations
11/8/2006 Andrew Brown and Kevin Kouzmanoff FOR Josh Barfield
5/13/2007 Jason Davis FOR PTBNL: Gregorio Rosario
7/27/2007 Max Ramirez FOR Kenny Lofton
8/9/2007 Russell Branyan FOR Cash
12/7/2007 Future Considerations FOR Jamey Carroll
6/12/2008 Cash FOR Damaso Espino
6/19/2008 PTBNL FOR Sal Fasano
7/7/2008 CC Sabathia FOR Matt LaPorta, Zach Jackson, Rob Bryson and a PTBNL: Michael Brantley
7/26/2008 Casey Blake and Cash FOR Carlos Santana and Jonathan Meloan
7/26/2008 Luis Perdoma FOR Anthony Reyes
8/12/2008 Paul Byrd FOR PTBNL and cash
8/31/2008 Jorge Velandia FOR Cash

definitley agree on Wood. I was very happy when I heard we signed him....until I heard how much he cost. The first thing I thought of was that it was only $2mil/year less than K-Rod (3yr/$37mil).

Why not find a way to cut that $2mil somewhere else if that is what it would have taken?

Geesh, he just shelled out 10 million a year for a guy and you still call him a cheapskate?

Who is to say that K-Rod didn't want to come here? I've never heard him make a statement in public either way so what makes you think they didn't talk behind closed doors? I do remember us contacting him. He could have easily said thanks but no thanks.

Easy, "I don't want to play in Cleveland". There are players all the time in every sport that say they won't play somewhere or that they would only entertain offers from certain cities/parts of the country.

Heck, it took a TON of extra money for the Yanks to persuade CC. We are talking somewhere in the neighborhood of $40 million more than anybody else, and even then he didn't jump at it, still holding out hope for where he wanted to go.

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1/27/2006 Coco Crisp, David Riske and Josh Bard FOR
Guillermo Mota, Andy Marte, Kelly Shoppach, cash and a PTBNL: Randy Newsom

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I would make that trade again & again, I would trade all three of our guys just for Shoppach.


Remember last year, the best deal we made was the one we didnt make, Shoppach to Pittsburgh for Bay and wasnt C.Lee in there somewhere maybe just in the talks but I though his name came up.

You can be upset about this trade.. Gutz didn't have a future here. Sizemore, Francisco, Choo, LaPorta, Brantley, Crowe, and Weglarz.... enough said.

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You can be upset about this trade.. Gutz didn't have a future here. Sizemore, Francisco, Choo, LaPorta, Brantley, Crowe, and Weglarz.... enough said.

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What the heck you talking about, where did I say I was upset.....I like the trade we just did, no where did I ever say I was upset..... , my comment was not to comment due to the fact, I didnt know anything about Smith from NY.....I see his stats but that was it......I'm not really sure where you get the idea I was upset, My comment about the shoppach / Bay no-trade was due to people in the past on these threads screaming for the Indians to trade for a power bat. Trades are a part of the game, but one has to be carefull when trading.

you sound like you only think Franky-G had a strong arm and wasn't a great defensive player besides that? he was consistently making plays in the field whether it was with his arm or because he was running down bloopers and gap-hits.

anyway, here...this article/post sums it up rather nicely:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/91786...nklin-gutierrez



if you prefer Choo, then fine. I never said he wasn't a better offensive player at this point, he obviously is. He just doesn't do anything particularly well....just a lot of things average. I do not see the overall upside with him that I saw in Franky-G. I hope that I am wrong.