DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum It's the Offensive Line ,Stupid

Zone blocking and relying on quickness wil not work in the AFC North. You have too many huge DLs to be effective using that scheme. You really can't expect a zone blocking scheme to be effective against physical attacking defenses like Pitt and Balt have.

Of course you pay people you draft..duhhh..but if you draft linemen from the second - fifth rounds they are CHEAPER than trying to pay huge dollars for backup linmen.
Good lines are built and restocked through the draft, and we're at that point we can do it.
As I mentioned..draft a center and guy who is a mauler for OT/OG and this unit will be upgraded.
And it not's really the scheme so much as it is the quality of linemen on that right side..
The Browns could go to a power blocking scheme but to do that they must draft powerful athletic players to do it.

CoachB...there are enough guys coming into this league to get Big, Powerful, Agile and Fast to handle a Zone blocking scheme. If done correctly it should be successful even in this Division. Especially against 3-4 defenses.

JMHO

I get it....we have a 100 million dollar line.


Really....I do understand..I don't undervalue o-line....rather....some overvalue.

I am glad we took Thomas...and hope we snag one of the 2-3 good centers in this draft in round 2. Ungar may go later 1st....but he might still be around in round 2...depending on how high we draft..

It wouldn't bother me one bit if we took a o-lineman in one of the first 4 rounds every year.

If you think back my friend...you will remember me saying we should take Hutcheson..then a few years later saying we should take Andrews...but....they were "only" guards and and RT's...all the while the board was going gaga over Nate Dorsey.

You and a few others have a short memory....now all of a sudden, we have our LT but little else.

Please don't tell me I don't get it.

"You and a few others have a short memory....now all of a sudden, we have our LT but little else."

I remember a poster telling me in 2003 draft OL talk to don't bother with Steinbach (my OL pimping of that year) wait till next year and you can have the greatest of them all Gallery...I remember giving you props for calling that one (not the forget Steinbach...but about the Great ONE ). Funny what we want to remember... lol

Peen - here you state OL is over rated here. Then you try to prove how you have coveted talent.

But actually most I've ever read from you is that we shouldn't waste our investment...for SO n SO after all next year you got THIS GUY n THAT GUY...but then when next year rolls around...you will say - why invest NEXT YEAR there is this guy and that guy!

Over n over again.

yet the only Offensive success this team has had was when the OL came together. The OL played well in 2002 and we made the playoffs - It was the only year that we didn't sustain injuries.

The OL played well last season and our Offense was very productive.

How can you with a straight face state that its over rated.

Can a team possibly find a good OL from the later part of the draft? Sure, Not Left Tackle but we don't have to worry about that anymore. That is why I pimped any and ever Left Tackle that remotely had a chance of being a Cornerstone LT. Like Savage stated...they play early and they play long (last 10 years or so)

But LIKE ANY POSITION you can eventually luck into a good very good player later in the draft.

But like any position your chance of success rises with the investment.

No UNIT makes the REST of the team IMPROVE more than the OL...Or the DL on the other side of the ball and in the 3-4 D its actually 5 not 4...as I include the 2 OLBs...Give me the best 5 stud OLmen playing as a UNIT and the best 5 stud 3 DL + 2 OLB and I'll bet on that team going to the SB. Sure you need skilled position players but there is enough skill out there to LOOK SO MUCH BETTER when thier LOS 5's are the best in the NFL.

Go the other direction and get the Best 6 not described...and get mediocre OL n DL and what are the results??? The Bengals???? The RAMS??? The LIONS???

JMHO

"Go the other direction and get the Best 6 not described...and get mediocre OL n DL and what are the results??? The Bengals???? The RAMS??? The LIONS???"

And the team you failed to mention...The Browns.
One drafted player on the o-line,and 1 drafted player in your front 5.
I'd be willing to bet the other teams you mentioned havedone better.

just curious on how some others built their team.

Pats...O 5
Matt Light Draft 2nd round
Logan Mankins Draft 1st round
Dan Koppen Draft 5th round
Steven Neal FA
Nick Kaczur Draft 3rd round
Pats...D 5
Ty Warren Draft 1st round
Vince Wolfolk Draft 1st round
Richard Seymour Draft 1st round
Vrabel FA
Guyton FA

Well half of the 10 have been drafted in the first two rounds....pretty much a model point of build up.

Steelers?
O 5
Marvel Smith D 2nd round
Kemoeatu D 6th round
Hartwig FA
Kendall Simmons D 1st round
Willie Colon D 4th round
D5
Aaron Smith D 4th round
Casey Hampton D 1st round
Keisel D 7th round
Harrison UDFA (wow)
Woodley D 2nd round

Neither team had to do too much through FA cause they hit so well with their drafts.

Us 99-04 Don't have too much to show for it.
But accrued nothing but Tucker on the OL

This new regime...has built something in the Front 5...not much with the draft but
Rogers is a coup. Corey Williams is a lot better than most think. Wimbley invested in but hasn't reaped the rewards.

Joe T, ES - the rest are serviceable NFL starters.

We need to Invest 1st and 2nd round in this Front 10...consistently over the next 3 years. Veering only briefly away for something else.

JMHO

I wouldn't have a problem drafting either an OL or a DL in one of the first 3 rounds every year...

it is possible to find decent interior OL in the later rounds,but relying on that could be a crap shoot.
I'm gonna think we can get a center in FA but to get LBs or a guard will be easier in the draft. what a mess

Yup the line plays poorly the running game and passing game go down with it, not the other way around.

EO good points, and I was hopeful that last off season would signal the end of the Browns re-stock thru FA. Sorry to say, I think we will once again have to make a splash or 2 in FA. Hopefully there are still players out there that want to come here to play???

BTTB

There's only two areas that Phil has not done well in FA..well three
1-WR..
2-QB...he hasn't pursued any FA QB's outside of Dillpickle
3-..drum roll....LB..we have yet to hit paydirt with a big time FA LB.

Eotab I don't think you bothered to even research what or who the Bengals have as far as the d-lines and o-lines go in the past few years.
Until the Browns win the division and make the playoffs then the Browns will be mentioned with the likes of Lions and Rams...
What have the Browns really done since 1999 to make you think they are in a different light then the Lions,Rams and Bengals?

The Bengals had a Top 5 NFL o-line until C Rich Braham broke his knee vs the Browns 2 years ago.
Levi Jones has battled a series of injuries going back to 2007. They have robbed him of his lateral agility.
Releasing Willie Anderson still doesn't make sense.
The Bengals starting o-line as of Sunday looks like this.

LT Anthony Collins. RD 4 Kansas R
RG Nate Livings FA LSU 2006 Draft
C Eric Ghiacuc RD 4 E.Michigan 2006 Draft
RG Bobbie Williams FA (Philly Eagles,2006)
RT Stacey Andrews RD 4 Ole Miss 2004 Draft

injuried Andrew Whitworth 2nd RD LSU 2006 Draft
Levi Jones RD 1 Arizona St. 2002.
As you can see,the Bengals have gone through the NFL Draft to build their o-line.
Anthony Collins might by a future anchor for years to come..in his 1st start,he shutout James Harrison. He has promise.
Eric Ghiacuc,like Hank Fraley isn't panning out at C.
Stacey Andrews will be replaced.
Who drafted Eric Steinbach in RD 2?

The Bengals D-line is young.
DE Robert Geathers has been a solid 4th RD pick out of Georgia in 2004.
Antwan Odom came over from the Titans. Haven't seen much from him due to injuries this year.
DE Frostee Rucker was showing some promise finally,with 2 sacks and 2 FF as the 3rd DE.But he's been on the IR since week 10.
Rookie DT Patrick Sims has outplayed Glenn Dorsey in fewer starts.He's a 3 RD pick.He's doing better than Sedrick Ellis of the Saints.
DT Domata Peko is among the Top 5 in tackles among DT's in the NFL.
He was a solid find in RD 4 of 2006.
John Thorton will be replaced by rookie Jason Shirley was is like a raw Shaun Rogers.

Marvin Lewis has invested a good amount of draft picks in his lines.
Injuries have caught up to the o-line and they are forced to play the young kids now.
The Bengals d-line is showing promise...Opposing teams are only averaging 3.8 yards a carry.Not bad considering the Bengals pathetic offense can't stay
on the field to give them a rest in the 2nd half of games.

I just want Phil to bring in the corner from the Raiders.... Thats all I know!!

I agree, BFanz. Chud & company are drafting skills we don't build around. We have had some success outside, but seldom pitch, sweep, screen, or shovel pass. We insist on a short pass and a center running game. Oh, and swing passes to FB. But center screen, doubles, quick toss, even a stretch has looked good at times. We need a simpler scheme using more power and speed and less technique. And get our people outside in air. Chud can't do it, isn't allowed to do it, or refuses. All could be wrong.

"Until the Browns win the division and make the playoffs then the Browns will be mentioned with the likes of Lions and Rams.."

I'll stop reading your GARBAGE, SMACK CRAPOLA post right there.

Actually you lost all credibility by not including the Bengals in that list.

As in....be mentioned with the likes of Lions, RAMs and Bengals.

As for the rest of the post...what the heck are you talking about...you are confusing
HAVE AN OL with HAVING BUILT ONE.

Levi Jones and ES were making strides to building one. But Levi did get in the dog house and has sustained career altering injuries. Stuff happens and you have to move on.

ES...they let his walk...how is that for building an OL - you lock up your YOUNG draft OLmen who are on the verge of Pro-Bowl status...not let them walk.

The rest....sorry getting a UDFA guy here n 4th rounder there. Until Brown opens up those purse strings it is the Bengals who will forever by the poor sister in the NFL.

JMHO

Eotab I don't have to mention the Bengals,well because its UNDERSTOOD they take up residenance with the Lions,Rams and BROWNS as NFL futility goes.
Its doesn't make sense to state the obvious.
However you seem to believe that the Cleveland Browns aren't supposed to be mentioned with the likes of the Bengals,Rams,Lions, or even 49ers for that matter.
IHYO opinion,whats makes you think that the Browns different from those franchises...cause Randy Lerner is one of the most wealthier owners in the league?
Theirs only a few NFL franchises that are really consistant from year to year...
The Pats,Steelers..etc.
The Bengals let Steinbach walk for a reason. They had already committed a ton to money to Willie Anderson and Levi Jones. They felt Steinbach was a liabilty in the running game.....He's more finese than power.
The Bengals drafted Andrew Whitworth knowing Steinbach was going to leave via free agency.
Its impossible to pay all your o-lineman top $$$. I think even you can understand that.

The reason I won't strike it is because I felt after Dillpickle was traded..Phil should have got a seasoned QB to come and in.

Yeah it's old school but this team needed to settle down and have some smarts at that spot..and they really haven't.