DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Savage Out as Browns GM per league source

Analysis: Draft errors and overspending for free agents helped seal Savage's fate

PITTSBURGH -- Phil Savage's inability to manage the Browns effectively, portray it in a positive light, and his costly mistakes on personnel all contributed to him being fired on Saturday, sources close to the organization said Sunday night.

Savage had some highlights during his four-year career here, but the lowlights outweighed them, the sources said. The Browns had hoped that Savage's ability to acquire talent would override some of his weaknesses, but they didn't. In the end, the Browns felt that even his acquisition skills weren't what they hoped they'd be.

Among Savage's highlights were:

• The drafting of left tackle Joe Thomas in 2007 and the trading up for Brady Quinn, which left the organization feeling it had found the two cornerstones of the franchise.

• The naming of six players to the Pro Bowl after the 2007 season, snapping a six-year drought. Although one of those, Kellen Winslow, was from the Butch Davis era.

• The signing of special teams ace Josh Cribbs as an undrafted free agent out of Kent State.

• The claiming of Derek Anderson off waivers via the arch-rival Ravens in 2005.

• The team finishing 10-6 in 2007.

But the lowlights were far more plentiful, according to sources. Among them:

• Savage drafted only two starters on Day 2 of the draft over his four years.

• He never drafted a Pro Bowl defensive player.

• He overspent on free agents such as Donte Stallworth and Kevin Shaffer.

• He bungled controversies, including the Kellen Winslow staph infection saga this season and sent the infamously obscene "Buffalo" email to a fan.

• Traded down a notch with the Ravens in 2006 and allowed them to select nose tackle Haloti Ngata, whom Bill Belichick said later was the best player in the draft.

• One NFL source said the next general manager and head coach (Romeo Crennel is expected to be fired this morning) will not have an easy time because the roster is full of overpaid players, the salary cap is headed for danger because of all the huge signing bonuses, and the Browns have traded away a lot of draft picks, including three more next season: the 3rd, 5th and 7th.

The new regime, then, will be forced to try to restock the team with more free agents, which don't come cheap. Some of the players Savage traded picks to acquire this year are not held in especially high regard by the current coaching staff, including Beau Bell, Martin Rucker and Paul Hubbard. It remains to be seen how the new staff takes to them.

Many of Savage's second-day picks are out of football, including defensive players such as fourth-rounder Antonio Perkins, fifth-rounder David McMillan, and sixth-rounder Nick Speegle.

The jury is also still out on 2005 first-rounder Braylon Edwards, 2006 first-rounder Kamerion Wimbley and Quinn, who for all intents and purposes is considered the 2008 first-rounder. Edwards had a 16 TD Pro Bowl season last year, but regressed this year and will be trying to rebound. Wimbley had a sensational 11-sack rookie year, but had five last year and four this year. No one knows for sure of what Quinn is capable.

In an effort to make up for the drafting mistakes of Butch Davis and Pete Garcia, Savage overspent on free agents Gary Baxter (6 years, $30 million, $10 million guaranteed), LeCharles Bentley (6 years, $36 million, $12.5 million guaranteed), Kevin Shaffer (6 years, $36 million), and Donte Stallworth (7 years, $35 million, $10 million guaranteed).

Savage also traded away this year's second-round pick for Corey Williams and third-rounder for Shaun Rogers (as well as Leigh Bodden to Detroit). But instead of getting second- and third-round salaries, they're paid more like first-rounders. Williams received a six-year, $38 million deal -- with between $16 and $18 million guaranteed.

Rogers received a restructured deal tjat totals six years for $42 million, including $23 million guaranteed over the first three years. Anderson also received a new 3-year deal last season with up to $14 million guaranteed.

Browns owner Randy Lerner opened up his checkbook to try to produce a winner, but the next staff will pay for it, both literally and figuratively. What's more, the contracts of many players are up after 2009, including Edwards.

Savage's staff privately argued Crennel didn't play second-day players such as Harrison, Bell, Rucker and Alex Hall. It remains to be seen how effective they'll be going forward.

Over the past two months, the Browns have heard one story after another from inside the organization and out that made them realize it was time to cut their losses.

link

id like to see us somehow find a way to keep DA as our number 2, i know there is no way in hell that will happen but gosh our qb situation is pathetic who is going to be our number 2 next year, gradkowski? he looked god awefull i really was hoping to see something good out of him and hope he could be a solid number 2 not the case, dorsey is one of the worse qbs i have ever seen he isnt fast enough for the NFL game. so who comes in as our number 2?

Here is what I think we should do with the GM/Coaching situation as we have already canned Romeo and Savage:

Talk to Cowher. If he wants total control, I'm done with him. My next target is Pioli. If he wants to bring McDaniels as our Head Coach, I'm fine with that. He's a young guy who I think happens to be a very good Coordinator, and more importantly would be a very good Head Coach.

where are you reading about crennel being fired i cant find anything on it?

Try the other thead on the same subject. It could be wrong, but either way it looks as if Romeo is on his way out.

The one thing I liked about Savage was the ability to bring in players who weren't coming here in previous years.

But he wasn't on the same page as Romeo. The coaching staff not liking his picks is bad. If you move up and draft guys the coaching staff doesn't like because of them not fitting their schemes, that's even worse. And I did like the Stallworth pick up, but he definitely threw more money at him than he deserved.

Ugly, ugly, ugly.

i too thought stallworth would be able to make a difference here but that turned out to be very wrong.....i really wouldnt mind dumping him after this year, he hasnt done anything to prove that he deserves to be here making the kind of money that he is making. that money is going to be needed else where

Sigh, this is getting old. First, those coaches are NOT the product of Belicheck. It has been stated by EVERYONE that has been asked that in the NE organization.

Next, Cowher is "hush hush" because there is nothing to talk about. There is not problem with tampering because Cowher isn't coaching for anyone. I'm pretty sure the network can't get the Browns for tampering. As for the Rooney Rule, it wouldn't be violated because all Lerner has to do is interviewa minority before officialy offering a job to anyone else.

You were right on your hunch that Savage was going to be the GM? So was about 30,000 others .

I don't understand all this love for Cowher anyway. Yes, he.was successful at Pittsubrgh, but no one clamoring for him has ever answered my simple question. What has Cowher ever done to prove he can BUILD a winning team? He inherited a solid team from Noll. That's his resume as far as "building" a team. He hasn't. Why are people so sure he can?

I think the chances of RAC keeping his job are pretty slim, in fact next to none. However, if we are going to change coaches, how about getting a coach that has proven he can actually BUILD a team. There are many out there...HOLMGREN (twice), Vermiel (3 times), and Parcells (3 times) are 3 off the top of my head, not to mention Coach Schot, though he can't get over the hump in the playoffs.

I like and respect Cowher, but to proclaim him as the answer because he did well with an established team is a reach. This team need to finish being built. Cowher has never done that.

I know this means jack squat, because stuff is said and who knows how things get started, but there's all those rumors about Cowher building a house in the area, and his wife hating living in NC and wanting to move back up north.

I don't believe any of it, nor do I think he's coming to "right our ship."

It would be a slap in the face of the Steeler fans if Cowher came here. It would be the same as if Bernie going to the Steelers organization. I don't see it happening. Unless Cowher is one super heartless uncaring dude who only cares about cash. In which case, I wouldn't want him as coach.

Give me Holmgren.

jc

Here's to another 5 years of rebuilding... Seriously, are we any better off now than we were when Butch left? It doesn't look like it.

They said during the Seattle game that Holmgren said he will absolutely, positively NOT be coaching anywhere in 2009.

I really think this team is made perfect for Holmgren. he would do wonders with this offense and maybe bring in ray rhodes to run the d?

See ya Phil! Woe is me....He pretty much just took a huge leap back in his career. Maybe Detroit can use him or he could go hang from Ozzies coat tails some more! For someone who never accomplished nothing he sure came off cocky in his demeanor.

Holmgren took three 3 teams to the Superbowl. When is the last time we ever had a coach that did that ? Seems to me its better than the unproven coaches we've had since '99

Scott Pioli for GM, and Dave Wansteddt or Dave Campo for head coach.







Kidding!

The difference in the NFL between winning and losing is razor thin.

Atlanta, Miami, and Baltimore were in the dumps last year. Now they are in the playoffs.

The fact is that 1/4 of the NFL teams are pretty good going into the season and can be expected to make the playoffs.

Half of the teams are probably anywhere from 5-11 to 11-5 depending on how the games turn out and how injuries affect the team.

And 1/4 of the teams are pretty bad. We knew going into the season that KC and Oakland were not very good. I am suprized that detroit lost it to the degree that they did.

There are some building blocks on the team, and some decent NFL Players.

On offense there are 6 or 7 solid starters. Defensively, probably 8. Decent special teams.

All this team needs is an attitude adjustment and to get healthy.

The toughest decision is with regard to Winslow and Edwards. They need to figure out their lives.

The Browns don't need talented drama queens.

I don't see the Browns in the same situation as when Davis was canned. It is much better.

Quote:

---

I don't understand all this love for Cowher anyway. Yes, he.was successful at Pittsubrgh, but no one clamoring for him has ever answered my simple question. What has Cowher ever done to prove he can BUILD a winning team? He inherited a solid team from Noll. That's his resume as far as "building" a team. He hasn't. Why are people so sure he can?

---

coachb...Yes, it's true that Bill Cowher inherited Chuck Noll's team in 1992.

A closer look at the team Cowher inherited shows that their last season under Noll, the Steelers were 7-9. In the last 5 season's under Noll the Steelers record was 38-41. In those last 5 seasons under Chuck Noll, the Steelers finished first in their division one time with a 9-7 record.

It had been 12 years since the Steelers won their last Super Bowl when Bill Cowher took over as head coach.

Yes, Bill Cowher inherited a good team, but not the great team the Steelers were in their glory years, under Noll.

It's only fair that we now look at Cowher first 5 seasons as the Steelers head coach after "inheriting" Chuck Noll's team.

Cowher's record in his first 5 years as head coach of the Steelers was 53-27. The Steelers finished first in their division 4 times and 2nd once in Cowher's first 5 years after "inheriting" Chuck Noll's team.

There is little doubt that Bill Cowher took Chuck Noll's team and improved their performance. At what point did the Steelers become Cowher's team?

I say Bill Cowher made it clear to everyone in that first season, the Steelers were "his" team and not Chuck Noll's team. Cowher's first year with the Steelers showed a team that went 11-5 after going 7-9 in Noll's last season.

If someone wants to claim that was Noll's team Cowher won with in his first season, what about the 9-7 record in Cowher's 2nd season....or the 12-4 season in Cowher 3rd season...or the 11-5 season in Cowher's 4th season....or did the Steelers finally become Cowher's team in the 5th season when they went 10-6?

Bill Cowher took Chuck Noll's team and made them better!

No one can take that fact away from Bill Cowher, not even you, coachb!

Those who claim Bill Cowher never built a team...you look rather foolish when we look at the facts.

In Cowher's 15 years he had a career winning percentage of .623 for the regular season. Cowher did have 3 seasons where his team failed to play .500 or better football, going 6-10 twice and 7-9 once. Chuck Noll's career winning percentage was .566 with most of his wins coming in his first 10 seasons.

Lastly, Bill Cowher's team won the Super Bowl in his 14th season...was that Chuck Noll's team too?

If the Browns could be so fortunate to land Bill Cowher as our head coach....

I'm so relieved Savage is gone. He did a decent job I guess... I'd give him a 'C'. We seem to have a lot of young talent that could become great players I think. I am glad we have a young team.

Savage really didn't have great drafts. I am so mad that he traded away our 3rd rounder this year... Since we are so high in the draft, we are essentially losing a 68th overall pick, which is a major loss. We don't have that 5th or 7th rounder either.

Savage didn't show much class with the KW2 incident, the Bentley injury, or the fan e-mail. He never really came across as a guy that liked the fans. Remember when the David Givens thing popped up and he shut down Dawg Talk for weeks? That was so lame...

He brought in some good FAs, but how hard is it to bring in FAs? You know they are good because they are already established. He had a lot of cap room and used it. He made some free agency blunders too.

I hate the fact Ken Dorsey was ever on this team. He should have been added to the coaching staff since that is all his purpose was. We could have been getting a new young QB ready to possibly be a longterm backup.

I don't like how he was basically starting to throw Romeo under the bus this season with some of his comments.

He made some really lousy draft choices.... I think the ones that I think of the most are Kamerion Wimbley, Charlie Frye, Antonio Perkins, and Travis Wilson.

I don't see how the Josh Cribbs thing is such a great moment for him. Josh is a good player but he really didn't produce as a returner this year. Let's face it... He was a LOCAL guy that came free as an UDFA... I mean... sheesh. If he had picked him up as some guy from some tiny school in Idaho or something, it would be different. But he was a local kid...

Savage did some OK stuff but I am glad he is gone. I think this is uplifting to see us moving into a new era.

I am 99.99% sure that Romeo won't be back. Why would he accept a DC job here? He will get paid millions to not work! I think he is probably going to be out of football. He will have a nice amount of money now, and he is 65 years old I believe. Its a good age to retire. The NFL is stressful... After this tenure in Cleveland, I bet he wants at least a year off. And what is he going to do... start coaching when he turns 67? I just don't see it.

Wanted to throw two more names out there into consideration:

Jim Mora Jr. and Mike Singletary

Before you stone me understand that Mora Jr. is supposedly a shoe-in for the Seattle job. If unable to get Cowher I think these two would be able to bring in the same passion we've been missing in the HC position.

Yup the press conference is currently scheduled for 12PM later today, but if it's not Crennel or Savage who's conducting it then who? dare I say Lerner, it can't be!

And wait another 14 yrs. for a blind squirrel to find a nut.

Well now the waiting starts, to see who is gonna take over, Seems like we just did this.

Our next GM & Coach I hope there ready to work, I'm gonna hold my comments of both of them until I see results.

Well, Mourgrym, this one seems to be true on The Morning After; that being factual, whaddya think about Lerner's move?

I support this decision by Randy. Phil did a lot of throwing Romeo under the bus and there was an arrogance to his demeanor about it. "I pick the 53" And I agree the 53 he did "pick" was clearly without the head coach in mind or what kind of team he was trying to run.

I may take some flak for this but I don't care. . . I don't want Cowher. I don't want someone who just wants to coach, or as someone stated before, give him 10-12 million and that will change his mind.

give me some guy who wants to coach and wants to win and desires to win the big one. I can see Cowher having the class to stay mum but if he's just looking to get back in the game he can do it somewhere else.

I'd rather build or continue building this team around a coach. Give me some guy we can have for 10-15 years. Get players that play to his style. (I'm thinking of Jeff Fisher, or what the Steelers did with Cowher)

Again, I don't want someone that just wants to get back in the game. And I don't want someone because Tony Grossi writes article after article of "sources say . . . "

My feelings are a bit subdued...on one hand I wanted to see Phil go through the process and get this mess corrected..so on that I wonder if Lerner moved prematurely..

On the other hand..all this change and losing seasons and the crap that goes on during the year is lost on me..I'm literally sick of it..

Mac, mac, mac....you make it too easy. In all that copying and pasting from the Steeler site, you forgot some very important things. We'll set aside that Cowher inherited a team that produced 6 Pro Bowlers his first you...and NONE were new acquisitions.

Here is the ONE thing that you forgot to mention during this long winded regurgitation of "facts". In all those years that you throw out such a great job of "building" the Steelers into such an outstanding dynasty the one 1 Super Bowl in 14 years, how many years was Cowher the GM?

What? Cowher wasn't the GM? Oh, I see, so he COACHED a teem that he inherited, improved on the record by having someone else acquire the talent, and, therefore, NEVER BUILT A TEAM. Get the picture, mac? Cowher has never had the sole power he reportedly wants. So, I'll ask you again. Drop your cut and paste act and point to the years that Cowher had total control over ANY team and BUILT it with drafts, free agent signings, etc. You can't.

Cowher is a great coach. That doesn't mean he would be a great GM. Sorry, mac, but I don't look "foolish" for looking at what Cowher would want and look at his years with the Steelers and KNOW that the facts show he's never had what he wants now.

CoachB,
Alot of people also forget that Cowher kept asking for more say/control over personnel matters and the steelers management kept saying NO!! So Cowher is a good coach but this team building fantasy that everyone in Cleveland is living is just that, a fantasy!!!

I think when it comes down to it, a lot of people want Cowher because he is the complete opposite of what RAC was on the sidelines.

RAC was very subdued, never showed much emotion. When we didn't get results, you start to feel that he can't motivate players. Cowher, on the other hand, was always ranting and raving and getting in guy's faces. We felt he could motivate players.

So, people just want something different than what we've had, and you can't get much more different in emotion than RAC and Cowher.

j/c

If we fired Savage and can't get a big fish to take over as GM. Get ready for another rebuild and the ultimate end of the Randy Lerner Jr. Experiment. Watch Savage go back to Baltimore and own us every year.

That is the problem, 79. Too many people want emotion and are using emotions to cloud their own judgement.