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hey, i'm just speculating. that said, being loyal to billichick and wanting to further your career are not mutually exclusive.
Nor are class and character. If Pioli is as classy as some seem to speculate, would you suspect he would want to take partial blame or be connected to a known cheater?
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that said, no one absolved billichick of spygate but the bigger issue is that it was betrayal by an assistant that owed everything to billichick. if that doesn't have any impact in pioli's decision-making, i'd be surprised. if pioli can overlook it, though, then there's obviously no issue. this is all speculation on all our parts until everything shakes out.
Absolved of what? Look, if you have any class about you and sense of fair play...........
A. In the first place, you would admire Mangini for doing "everything he could for his current employer" to even the playing field.
B. See that he is willing to do whatever it takes ( within the context of the rules ) to hurt your division rivals.
C. Took a crappy team and brought them to respectability in a quick turnaround as a first time NFL HC.
D. At 41 or 43 (I'm old, I forgot), he could be a long term solution for a decade or more. Enough time to actually build and maintain a dynasty in the NFL.
I could go on. But if Pioli is half the man many here believe him to be, he looks at everything. And in doing so, a responsible, smart business person would fully understand that the fault in all of this lays at the feet of Bill.
And Mangini may have been cunning enough to have made the difference in the Pats making the playoffs this year or not. Because who knows who that first round draft pick would have been and how much they would have contributed this year.
A smart businessman? Would want somebody like Mangini on their side.
See, I can spin a web with the best of em'!
BTW- If I were Pioli, it would be Billecheck I'd be mad at. At some point in your life, you have to understand how to align yourself in a respectable and professional manner. Billicheck commited the act, not Mangini. Most responsable people understand this. As I believe Pioli will do. Why? Because that's what mature people do IMO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Why is Lerner talking to HC. prospects before he hires a GM .. Going to hire a Coach and then the GM ????
water...First, maybe it's not Randy who wants him interviewed? Maybe the potential GM wants Mangini interviewed.
Maybe Randy wants to ask Mangini, if he can patch up differences with Pioli should Lerner hire Pioli as GM?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Coach - do you think an explosive offense can really thrive in Cleveland winters? To me, that's where I think we need to tweak our identity.
I don't think we need to go to pure smashmouth football but changing from a pass first to a run first team certainly seems like a prudent move. We might not have the perfect personnel for a bruising running game but if we upgrade the right side of our line, we can at least do it enough to be successful. It's very hard to be a team that relys heavily on passing knowing that many games that matter will be played in frigid cold, rain/snow with swirling winds.
We're... we're good?
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Why is Lerner talking to HC. prospects before he hires a GM .. Going to hire a Coach and then the GM ????
Could it be he already knows who the new GM would want as HC? This whole McDaniels thing just stinks to high heavens!
Rookie GM and HC? They'd have to PROVE success before I'd endorse that! You think Randy isn't thinking about that too? And Pioli?
We'll see.........................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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i can see your point. i'm big on trust and, from what i've read, the rest of the league is too, particularly among coaches. i think it's one of the reasons why rac is so highly regarded in league circles. that said, that's the basis of my speculation as to why pioli may not want mangini. like i said, if pioli can overlook it (and imo, this is not related to his relationship to bellichick), that's all good with me too.
i think the best part about pioli to me, aside from actually trying to fit in a system, is rac might get a chance to finish what he started on the defensive side of the ball. if that happens, i'm a happy fan (provided the hc feels rac should be the dc, though it seems to be the case if it's mcdaniels or mangini).
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And in that potential HC list, who is the minority candidate? Does keeping RAC on staff avoid that requirement?
I assume not. If RAC isn't being interviewed for the job he just lost, another candidate would have to be interviewed.
At this moment, I can't think of anyone who's out there... any help, Dawgs?
"too many notes, not enough music-"
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Coach - do you think an explosive offense can really thrive in Cleveland winters? To me, that's where I think we need to tweak our identity.
Don't think anyone has accused the Patriots of being a smashmouth team. It didn't hold them back on route to 3 Super Bowl victories.
Go Irish!
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Denver of years ago always had athletic OL players but ran very consistantly.
Is that kind of where you're headed? If so, I agree it can be accomplished and they are a prime example of it in the past.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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i wonder how long its going to take to be reported that we have both pioli and mangini under contract, i think its a lil odd that mangini is going to be interviewed for the HC job if we dont already have a GM in place....something tells me that pioli has already agreed to the position and that he wants to hear what mangini has to say about being his head coach
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Yeah, I'm just saying that our current personnel doesn't preclude us from changing to a run-first team, which I think makes a lot of sense for us given where we play. A big play offense shuts down when the weather gets bad and I'm not sure that it's the best idea for us.
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Someone brought up two good points already. Denver ran well, but also threw well in terrible conditions. The Pats do that, too. I'm not saying we are set up to be an "explosive" offense. I think we are set up for more of a WCO. That isn't necessarily hampered by bad weather like a down the field offense is. Philly seems to do ok with it.
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the problem is i don't think edwards or winslow are wco type of guys. edwards doesn't have that quickness as much as long ball speed. i wouldn't expect him to run away from defenders like a desean jackson would. instead, edwards is built to jump and catch the high ball. the oline is more wco than anything and quinn is more wco but i wouldn't say we're entirely built to be a wco. that's the problem, i think are offense is half and half. a wco qb and line with a power runner, and two high catch receivers in edwards and winslow (and jj if he comes back).
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So....is it easier to replace a WR and TE or 5 OL and a QB?
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welllll, it's really just 1 or 2 ol and we have another qb that fits pretty good with that wr....   in all seriousness, thomas/steinbach can be in either, fraley needs replacing and if we get a great rg, schaffer can probably bounce back. after that, it'll be up to the regime.
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I disagree. Thomas and Steinbach aren't maulers. They rely on technique, as does Fraley......now here's what's interesting....3/5ths of our line is PERFECT for a certain head coach out west that just got fired minutes ago. Hmmmmm.
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Quote:
do you think an explosive offense can really thrive in Cleveland winters?
If explosive offesense worked in the past I am pretty sure it can happen again, we had some really potent offenses before so I can see it happening.
Look at NE, they have an explosive offense and play in worse weather conditions then Cleveland, so I could logically assume that it can happen. Can't you?
Just some info on Pioli in case I missed it somewhere else but:
Notes
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Scott Pioli is in his ninth season with the Patriots and along with Head Coach Bill Belichick has instilled a football philosophy designed to create a consistent championship contender in New England. Their work has produced an NFL-best three Super Bowl championships, four conference titles and six division crowns in the seven seasons since 2001. Pioli and Belichick's nine seasons together makes them the NFL's longest-tenured current personnel director/ head coach tandem.
Pioli's primary personnel objective is to build a team, not to simply collect individual talent. As a result, the Patriots have been able to prosper despite the NFL realities of injuries and the salary cap, which have proven in many cases to be impediments to long-term success in pro football. The depth and versatility of the clubs that Pioli and Belichick have assembled have been integral to the Patriots' success, as players from a wide spectrum of previous experience have played important roles in the team's achievements.
Once Pioli and Belichick arrived in New England in 2000, it took the pair just two seasons to rebuild the foundation of the team. Since orchestrating the franchise's first Super Bowl victory following the 2001 season, Pioli and Belichick have produced consistently solid results, becoming the only personnel director/head coach tandem in NFL history to win three Super Bowls in a four-year span (2001-04). The Patriots are the only NFL team to win at least one playoff game in each of the last five seasons (2003-07) and are the only team in the league to win nine or more games in each of the last seven seasons (2001-07). Additionally, New England's 11 playoff wins over the last five seasons are tied for the highest total by a team over any five-year span in NFL history. The Patriots' 14 playoff wins this decade tie the NFL record for most playoff wins in any decade, equaling the marks of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers and the 1970s Dallas Cowboys.
In recognition of his achievements, Pioli was awarded The Sporting News' George Young NFL Executive of the Year award (voted on by NFL executives) following the 2003 and 2004 seasons. He is one of just three NFL executives, along with Bill Polian and Bobby Beathard, to win the award in consecutive years. Pioli is the youngest executive to win the award.
In 2007, the Patriots embarked on a record-setting campaign during which they became the first team in NFL history to complete a 16-0 regular season. Of the 53 players on the Patriots' Super Bowl XLII roster, 50 were acquired since 2000. New England set team records for total points scored (589), largest point differential (+315) and most touchdowns (75), while tying the league mark with 18 overall wins. Additionally, quarterback Tom Brady's 50 touchdown passes set an NFL record and Randy Moss's 23 touchdown receptions also set a league mark.
In each of the last five seasons, the depth and versatility of New England's roster helped overcome key injuries to win five straight AFC East titles. The Patriots have used an average of 40 different starters over the last five seasons, and claimed two NFL records for success in that category. In 2005, the Patriots set a post-merger league record for a division champion by utilizing 45 different starters. In 2003, the Patriots won Super Bowl XXXVIII despite using 42 different starters, the most in league history by a Super Bowl champion. In 2004, the Patriots employed 40 different starters as they won their second consecutive Super Bowl, and in 2006 won their fourth straight AFC East title while using 39 different starters. Last season, the Patriots tied the all-time NFL record with 21 different players scoring touchdowns. Of the 53 players on the Patriots' Super Bowl XLII roster, 43 were acquired after the team's first championship in 2001 and 31 were acquired since the team's third title in 2004.
The Patriots have used an effective combination of free agent signings, trades and draft picks to acquire championship-caliber players. In 2007, six Patriots players drafted by Belichick and Pioli were selected to the Pro Bowl and were named to the Associated Press All-Pro first or second teams. Those elite players came from a wide variety of draft positions - Tom Brady (sixth round), Dan Koppen (fifth round), Matt Light (second round), Logan Mankins (first round), Asante Samuel (fourth round) and Vince Wilfork (first round). Since 2000, Belichick/Pioli draft choices have earned one Associated Press Most Valuable Player Award (Brady), three Super Bowl MVP awards (Brady and Deion Branch) and 15 Pro Bowl berths (Seymour 5, Brady 4, Light 2, Koppen 1, Mankins 1, Samuel 1 and Wilfork 1). Veteran free agents signed by Belichick and Pioli include defensive co-captain Rodney Harrison, outside linebacker Mike Vrabel and three-time Pro Bowl special teams captain Larry Izzo among dozens of other contributors to New England's championship squads. New England's trades have netted improvement in drafting position that led to the ability to exchange draft picks for key veterans such as Randy Moss, who set the NFL record with 23 touchdown receptions in 2007, Wes Welker, who tied for the NFL lead with a team-record 112 receptions in 2007, and Corey Dillon, who set the Patriots' single-season rushing record in 2004.
Pioli was honored with Executive of the Year honors from national media outlets following the 2001, 2003, 2004 and 2007 seasons. Following the Patriots' first Super Bowl victory, the Dallas Morning News picked him as the league's top executive. Two seasons later, following Super Bowl XXXVIII, he earned Executive of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly (voted on by the media), The Sporting News (voted on by NFL executives) and Sports Illustrated. In 2004, Pioli's accolades included the NFLPA's Award for Executive Achievement and NFL Executive of the Year awards from The Sporting News, USA Today, the San Francisco Chronicle and SI.com. In 2007, Pioli again earned Executive of the Year honors from Pro Football Weekly, the Dallas Morning News and the San Francisco Chronicle.
Pioli began his NFL career when Belichick hired him as a pro personnel assistant for the Cleveland Browns in 1992. In Cleveland, he was responsible for the evaluation of both college prospects and veteran free agents as well as negotiating various player contracts. He also coordinated all player tryouts. He was promoted to director of pro personnel after the Cleveland franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. He spent one season with the Baltimore Ravens, where he oversaw all aspects of pro personnel and negotiated the contracts of free agents and several draft choices.
In 1997, while serving as head coach of the Jets, Belichick hired Pioli as the director of pro personnel. He was credited with the signing of a number of veteran free agents who played critical roles in the Jets' rebuilding process. In just two seasons, the Jets completed a worst-to-first turnaround, rebounding from 1-15 in 1996 to 12-4 in 1998. The 12 wins were the most in franchise history and gave the Jets their first division title since 1968.
Pioli played defensive tackle at Central Connecticut State (1983-87), where he was a three-time Division II All- New England selection. In 1988, after graduating with a degree in communications, he accepted a two-year graduate assistant position at Syracuse University, where he also earned a master's degree from the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications.
He accepted a full-time coaching opportunity at Murray State, where he spent one season as the offensive line coach (1990) and one season as the defensive line coach (1991). He left the coaching ranks to join the Browns personnel department in 1992.
Pioli was born on March 31, 1965 in Washingtonville, N.Y. He is an avid baseball fan. He currently serves on the board of directors for various non-profit foundations and serves on the board of directors for the College for Every Student Foundation, a national non-profit organization that partners with public schools in high-need communities to raise student aspirations and performance. He remains actively involved in fund raising for several organizations in his hometown (Washingtonville, N.Y.) and at his alma mater (Central Connecticut State). He established the Rose Pioli Scholarship in the name of his grandmother to benefit children of educators, professional firefighters, police and other emergency medical service providers. He was enshrined in the Central Connecticut State Hall of Fame in 2005. Scott and his wife, Dallas, have a daughter, Mia Costa Pioli.
Scott Pioli Bio from NE website
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thomas and steinbach has handled the afcn just fine, even though they are technique guess. definitely not like the giants/cowboys linemen. fraley seemed to lose a bit so i think he and a new rg (with tucker as a stopgap if he's healthy) should improve our oline. those two guys'll determine what we're suited for i guess. i know that when tucker was in, we had a finesse left side and a mauler right side and it was ok.
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The only think that scares me is,,, a rookie GM and a rookie HC.... I'm sure I'd embrace it in time,, but at the onset,,, wow.. the thought gives me the heebee geebees.......
I agree to a degree.....but Pioli is far more seasoned that Phil was....by a long shot.
I really don't think it will be a major factor.
Pioli has been in management for a while now....Phil was more or less a super scout.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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was he that good of a scout after all tho?
#brownsgoodkarma
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From his Bio
In 1997, while serving as head coach of the Jets, Belichick hired Pioli as the director of pro personnel. He was credited with the signing of a number of veteran free agents who played critical roles in the Jets' rebuilding process. In just two seasons, the Jets completed a worst-to-first turnaround, rebounding from 1-15 in 1996 to 12-4 in 1998. The 12 wins were the most in franchise history and gave the Jets their first division title since 1968.
Doesn't sound too bad to me, but I am nothing more then a speculating fan.
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I wonder if anyone is interested in Phil Savage?
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Belichick didn't really "hire" him.. he placed him on his hand and pulled a string when he wanted him to talk... 
yebat' Putin
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i was talking about savage hahah
#brownsgoodkarma
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I wonder if anyone is interested in Phil Savage?
He will find a job....but I doubt as a GM anytime soon.
I think he is viewed as a self promoter...but he can take a group of scouts and put in some good time.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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JC
I have a feeling it's going to be Pioli/Mcdaniels.
Mcdaniels was the OC for the Pats record setting Offense last year. Plus, he made a winner out of Matt Cassell. - He's from Canton Mckinley, and his father just resigned from his job as a high school football coach.
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The guy had TOM BRADY and RANDY MOSS!!!!! not to mention Wes Welker and Stallworth.... Great YAC guys...
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did you use stallworth and great in the same sentence? 
#brownsgoodkarma
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Sounds like a great DC, but what about being a HC?
I honestly believe any coordinator moved to HC is a crapshoot. I think Mangini has garnered some good experience as a HC and think Favre was his undoing.
I would love to see Pioli, but I want a HC with experience, and a DC like this guy.
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I read a posted rumor on another board that Parcells is thinkng about opting out of Miami and coaching again.
Wouldn't it be sweet if Pioli came here and brought in his father in-law to be the head coach. This team would get turned around in no time at all. I highly doubt that would happen but if by some miracle it does I hope we can hire a young up and coming coach to be the hier apparent.
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It's okay in your book to rip on Stallworth but not Braylon? Why? I think thats kind of hypocritical but I don't really care just thought I would point it out though.
Oh and thanks for clearing up about you talking about Savage I was somewhat confused by your comments.
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Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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stallworth has been a bust since he came into the leauge.....he hasnt done anything this year and got one heck of a pay day out of it. stallworth should be cut.....at least braylon made a pro-bowl....what did stallworth do this year? absolutly nothing
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Dang, we haven't hired Pioli yet? It's 6:30 on Tuesday for crying out loud! Sorry, I'm a LIL' impatient... 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I read a posted rumor on another board that Parcells is thinkng about opting out of Miami and coaching again.
Not really a rumor since Parcells always debates opting out of his contracts, he's been doing this for years and lets see I am Bill Parcells did everything a coach could possibly do in the NFL and I work in the state he loves and resides, yes I see Parcells coming here along with Cohwer too, and Batman.
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I would pay to see how Parcells would handle the Cleveland media. Some of the questions I hear asked during press conferences are just downright idiotic.
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stallworth has been a bust since he came into the leauge.....he hasnt done anything this year and got one heck of a pay day out of it. stallworth should be cut.....at least braylon made a pro-bowl....what did stallworth do this year? absolutly nothing
Pro Bowl! Pro Bowl? All the pro bowl is is a popularity contest! Pro Bowl?
BE has had ONE GOOD season. That's it! Then whines and moans like he's T.O.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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and Batman.
I don't know. After that last movie, really?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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yeah im sure 16tds had nothing to do with it?
i was all for bringing in stallworth but he has been a bust...time to get rid of him and his expensive contract. he cant manage to stall healthy anyway...and had just as many drops as the next lousy wr we have......one difference edwards has potential stallworth has shown time and time again he is a bust!!!!!
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Quote:
and Batman.
I don't know. After that last movie, really?
Why so serious?
Einstein could not even fathom the mathematical improbabilities of the Browns woes.
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 How long would it be before Tuna came to a press conference and when talking about BE , refers to him as "she"? 
about 2 seconds.
I've been saying right along that a lot of BE's drops are because he's afraid of getting hit and takes his eyes off the ball to see if someone is coming at him.
![[Linked Image from members.cox.net]](http://members.cox.net/flyinc5/smallsigpics/frcburnout.gif) AL 29 76 14 R_K
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pioli “Very Interested” In
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