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I also agree that we do NOT ever move up from 5. We have/had too many top 5 pickes that we have paid or are still paying for. If anything, we see if we can move down 3-6 slots and pick-up another selection to replace our missing 3rd round pick.
I don't remeber anyone EVER suggesting we move up from 5.  I remember suggesting we trade Players for the #1 pick and then trade down for multiple picks to go along with our #5 one of which would be another first this year and another that would possibly be an extra first next year, not including the extra seconds and/or thirds.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Trades.. Quinn/Wimbley/Schaffer-Detroit- for the #1 pick
Attempt to trade down out of #1 and pick up extra second.(Detroit has a #20 pick and 33)
I agreed with Roscoe that we shouldn't move up from #5 and didn't realize he may have been responding to this post of yours. But, this is confusing. So, you say trade players to get the #1 pick, then take that pick and trade down for more picks and still use our original pick at #5? I think that's what you are saying. Whoa! 
From Cleveland to KC to south central Florida, this dawg has made his travels - and changed his display name for each move.
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Jordan Gross would be more than great, but somehow I don't think we break the bank on another tackle. If we upgrade somewhere big, I don't think Gross is who we go after. (But trust me, if we had money to throw around, I'd bring him in the minute the clock hit midnight)
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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j/c
TRADE QUINN????? NUTZ!
Not really, especially if you can get a first rounder for him. It is not like he has exactly lit things up since he has been here...
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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And then do what for a QB?
DA, Mr. Consistency himself? Trading Quinn is absurd.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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I agree about not trading Quinn, but...depending on the coach we get, they may be able to something with DA......as of right now...we have 1 QB who had a pro-bowl year just a year ago....and another that we have only seen a few games, who didn't exactley look like Montana.....at this point, we could almost flip a coin..........
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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And then do what for a QB?
DA, Mr. Consistency himself? Trading Quinn is absurd.
I will be the first to say that DA certainly is Mr. Inconsistency and at this juncture not a QB any franchise in their right mind would pin their hopes on...
...with that said, in my mind, he's still a better prospect than what I've seen from BQ.
They're entirely different QB's, but the way I see it, both will need help to dig themselves out of their shortcomings. And I'll take DA's upside over BQ's any day...
Overall, our QB future is very uncertain.
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Seattle might ask for Winslow...
Have you looked at their roster?
They have a pup of a TE they're thrilled with.
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with that said, in my mind, he's still a better prospect than what I've seen from BQ. I've seen this said more than once and it always surprises me. Let's see.....nearly 2 years of inconsistant play from DA. And 3 games of average play from BQ. Yeah, I can make a judgement from that sampling........ 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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j/c
TRADE QUINN????? NUTZ!
Not really, especially if you can get a first rounder for him. It is not like he has exactly lit things up since he has been here...
Well, "who" lights up "what" behind this offensive line ,...??
I believe what we should try to do is keep both of these guys.
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And then do what for a QB?
DA, Mr. Consistency himself? Trading Quinn is absurd.
I will be the first to say that DA certainly is Mr. Inconsistency and at this juncture not a QB any franchise in their right mind would pin their hopes on...
...with that said, in my mind, he's still a better prospect than what I've seen from BQ.
They're entirely different QB's, but the way I see it, both will need help to dig themselves out of their shortcomings. And I'll take DA's upside over BQ's any day...
Overall, our QB future is very uncertain.
hmm..so you like what you've seen out of DA as opposed to the 1 game BQ played healthy? brilliant
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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First of all, the fact that you describe DA's play as 'inconsistent' while labeling BQ's as 'average' makes me wonder...
...they both stunk up the field this year when you get right down to it. If anything was 'average', it was DA's 2007 year. More hyped than it should've been, but above anything we've seen in ages.
And I remember DA at OSU and BQ at ND...the shortcomings they had there - thus far - have followed them to the pro-level.
Neither look very promising. I'll take DA.
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Lets not turn this into a DA vs BQ debate thread. The reason I brought up trading Quinn is because of the return we could get for him NOW. IMO his value is as high as it will ever be, I just have a feeling he is going to be a bust. Trade him now and get a first rounder for him, then you can get Curry and Maualuga/Cushing in the first round. Imagine that! Our D would go from having the worst LBs in the NFL to possibly the best...especially if we could sign Suggs in free agency. Our LBS would be Suggs, Jackson, Maualuga, and Curry....WOW
Last edited by OgDawg; 01/03/09 06:19 PM.
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You'll never get a first round pick for Quinn this year. You might squeeze a 2nd round pick out of someone but even that could be a stretch at this point. His pro resume isn't anything to write home about yet and he did end the year with pins in his throwing hand. Factor that in with the QBs that will be available and I really, really doubt he warrants a 1st rounder.
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Wasn't KC offering us a first rounder for him earlier this season? And the quarterbacks in the free agent pool this year aren't that good. The best possibly available is Cassel from N.E, but they will probably re-sign with Tom Bradys future in doubt. After Cassel the next best QBs are Warner, Garcia, and Grossman. In the draft, Stafford is the only real "can't miss" QB, and he hasn't even declared yet, after him the next best is Bradford, and he is still a project...Yup, I could definitley see us getting a number 1 for Quinn.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Only way I'm okay for trading Quinn... is if we get a first round pick, so then we could use our 5 on Matthew Stafford. 
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If we trade Quinn for a first rounder, I would hope our lineup next year to look like this...
QB- DA, vet backup
RB- Lewis, 2nd round draft pick
FB- Vickers, Ali
WR- Braylon, Bobby Engram (FA)
WR- JJ, Stallworthless
TE- Rucker, Heiden (trade Winslow for a 3rd)
LT- Thomas
LG- Steinbach
C- Fraley, (3rd round pick)
RG- Tucker, Hadnot
RT- Mark Tauscher (FA from Green Bay), trade Shaffer for what you can get
DE Robaire
NT Rogers
DE Williams
LB Suggs
LB Maualuga
LB Jackson
LB Curry
CB Wright
S Pool
S Dawon Landry (FA from Balt)
CB Dunta Robinson (FA)
Nickel Brandon Mcdonald
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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why would you trade K2 for a 3rd round pick? and then use that pick on a center? Hank is alot better center than alot of people realize. I think he along with the whole O-Line played poor this season....but they will bounce back. No way do you get rid of K2 and start Rucker...the little i got to see him play I wasnt impressed much...he has potential but he is not a starter yet!
#brownsgoodkarma
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Two things......One, we won't trade Quinn. Two, you won't get a 1st round pick if we did. The above may be only my opinion but if even half of my opinion is true it pretty much makes the rest of your posts dog food. I'm just sayin'........ 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Not really, especially if you can get a first rounder for him. It is not like he has exactly lit things up since he has been here...
2.5 games and he didn't light it up.. yeah,, you are right,,,let's trade him.. while we're at it,, let's throw the baby out with the bathwater..
not a very bright idea to be honest
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Ok, well when he ends up being a bust and we can't get anything for him, everyone will be sorry. Quinn IMO just isn't that good...If someone will give us a first for him then we have to make the trade. Chicago (18), Tampa (19), Detroit (20) and Minnesota (mid 20s) could all use a quarterback, and I think that one of them would be willing to trade us their first rounder for Quinn. Detroit being most likely because they have 2 first round picks, and they have no quarterback at all. They can address another position with their number 1 overall selection, and then trade their second first rounder for Quinn...it makes sense...
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I don't think Quinn will pan out. Honestly I'd rather let DA have another try at it.
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Ok, well when he ends up being a bust and we can't get anything for him, everyone will be sorry.
Excuse me for disagreeing with you.... you sound like that kid that says,, if we can't play by my rules then I'm leaving and taking my ball with me..
YOU don't know if he will or will not succeed.... neither do I, I'm just not ready to throw him away after 2.5 games,,,, To me, thats just flat out stupid..
it's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Well, I agree if someone is dumb enough to give us a 1st for BQ..then take it...but the only way I do that is if we get a coach like Shanahan....just because of the fact of his history of working with QB's.....if we get a rookie coach, then I say we should keep both of them.......DA has got the talent, we have seen it, but something is wrong as of late, not sure what it is, maybe his confidence...but it needs to be fixed...I like DA's arm........but his decisions, and his attitude I think have been a little tarnished......
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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I don't think Quinn will pan out. Honestly I'd rather let DA have another try at it.
You're under the assumption that DA wants to be here.
There is about a 5% chance, IMO, that DA stays in Cleveland. If he does, Quinn will not be here.
you had a good run Hank.
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I respect your opinion, but mine is that BQ isn't going to pan out. It is not that I don't want him to, but that is just how I feel. I think that if we can get a first rounder for him and get either Maualuga, Cushing or another stud lb or cb, we have to do it. DA has proven that he is good enough to win some games without a defense (07), lets see what he can do with one. A linebacking core consisting of Jackson, Maualuga/Cushing, Curry, and Suggs just gets me fired up lol
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I'm just curious to know.
People who don't think Quinn will pan out...why do you think that way?
you had a good run Hank.
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I'm just curious to know.
People who don't think Quinn will pan out...why do you think that way?
Well, me personally, I think they both have their upsides....but the 1 thing you can't coach is arm strength....and DA has that over BQ......I'm not overly impressed with either one of them to be perfectly honest with you......but I was just saying depending on the coach we get, and if someone was to offer a 1st round pick for BQ, I say jump on it, it will only help us fill our voids.....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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People who don't think Quinn will pan out...why do you think that way?
Well, I wish I had stats to back up my thinking, but I obviously don't. I could be dead wrong about him, and he could be Joe Montana, but I don't think that I am. Part of it is that when I have seen him play, we have no vertical passing game...none, and that effects the running game. When he tried to go deep the ball was either under thrown, or no where near the receiver. If he could miraculously become better at the deep ball then I might change my opinion, but I don't see it happening. You can't live off throwing 5-10 yard passes all the time, defenses will adjust to that. The other problem with his patented 5-10 yard passing game is that it doesn't open up the run. In 07 when we had one of the best vertical passing games in the league it forced defenses to respect the deep ball which in turn opened up huge holes for Jamal, it isn't like Jamal's skills decreased that drastically this year, it was the fact that there was no holes to run through because defenders were stacking the box, and there was no where to run.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Let me follow that up with saying that I don't know if DA is the long term solution, I just think that if we can get a first rounder for BQ, and can get another stud defensive player like Maualuga or Cushing, assuming we take Curry at 5, then DA gives us the better chance to win.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I'm just curious to know.
People who don't think Quinn will pan out...why do you think that way?
Without getting into detail...I never liked what I saw from him in college, and haven't been blown away by what I've seen from the pro level thus far.
I can say the EXACT same thing about DA...but with DA I see infinitely better leadership...and I dig his style of QB more than I do BQ's...
Neither enamor me...both could bust or win a Super Bowl.
And to whatever poster asked if DA even wanted to be here next year...from my view, all signs point to no. He knows he's not well-liked here.
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I can tell you right now that Quinn will not be traded....unless we got multiple picks for him. There's a reason him and Thomas are the guys Lerner has doing all the interviews right now, and it isn't because he wants to trade him. DA will probably be gone do to his roster bonus accompanied with the fact that he couldn't improve on his weaknessess last year.
Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
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I'm not so sure about that..DA is still pretty young....ya never know....we saw him do it before....no reason to think that he can't do it again..... 
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Yeah, I agree. He probably doesn't want to be back here next year if BQ is still on the team. He knows that as long as Quinn is here, most everyone will view DA as somewhat of a villian, and BQ as the savior.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I wouldn't say that Big Willie, the only safe players IMO are Cribbs, Thomas, Steinbach, Williams, Rogers, Jackson, both corners, Dawson, Zastudil, and Pontbriand.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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I wouldn't say that Big Willie, the only safe players IMO are Cribbs, Thomas, Steinbach, Williams, Rogers, Jackson, both corners, Dawson, Zastudil, and Pontbriand.
I think you can add K2 and Edwards to that list too.......Savage is gone, so K2 should stay.....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Better leadership with DA? Um...ok.
I love all the folks here who haven't been happy with what they've seen of Quinn in his whole 2 1/2 games ... LOL ... what a joke.
This is what I think of when I compare the two:
**DA was GIVEN the starting job this year and wilted. Absolutely caved. Showed no improvement whatsoever on his short game.
**When times were tough within the game, DA played his worst. When we needed a drive or a big play, he played terribly. When we needed to answer a scoring drive with one of our own ... sorry, just couldn't get it done. When there was in game adversity i.e., dropped passes or bad interception, he couldn't make up for it. Players hung their heads. Confidence was low.
**Leadership ... yeah, he's better than Quinn by everyone's account ...OK ...LOL... That's if you like leaders to be the kind that everyone likes. I like leaders to be hard-nosed hardasses that don't put up with chit. The kind that take command and take charge ... that have an incredible command of the huddle. Not the ones that fight on the field with their fullbacks during a game.
**Don't know why people keep discounting this, BUT Quinn was playing with a limited playbook because we had a bunch of morons as coaches (thankfully that's over with) ... so for all those "only throwing the ball 5 yards down the field won't get us anywhere" bullcrap ... well, that's just what it is ... bullcrap.
**And with that limited playbook, we put up 34 and 29 points. We moved the ball. Decisions were made quickly. Ball was released on time. Short and intermediate throws were accurate. And here's a novel idea ... we actually answered the other team's scoring drives. When adversity hit, our on-field leader didn't wilt. He lifted everyone else's play.
Maybe it's just me, but that's what I think of. Just because DA can throw a ball 70 yards in the air DOES NOT MEAN HE HAS MORE UPSIDE THAN QUINN. And just because he was a jerk when you hung out with him, doesn't mean BQ is going to be a bust. But hey, if that and DA's rocket arm is why you are in his corner, more power to you. I just hope DA is moving on.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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I think both Edwards and Winslow are expendable. Dallas gave up a first and second for Roy Williams, and IMO Braylon is better then him...And K2 is a great tightend, but for how much longer? I guess it just depends on how much we could get for them.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Better leadership with DA? Um...ok.
I love all the folks here who haven't been happy with what they've seen of Quinn in his whole 2 1/2 games ... LOL ... what a joke.
This is what I think of when I compare the two:
**DA was GIVEN the starting job this year and wilted. Absolutely caved. Showed no improvement whatsoever on his short game.
**When times were tough within the game, DA played his worst. When we needed a drive or a big play, he played terribly. When we needed to answer a scoring drive with one of our own ... sorry, just couldn't get it done. When there was in game adversity i.e., dropped passes or bad interception, he couldn't make up for it. Players hung their heads. Confidence was low.
**Leadership ... yeah, he's better than Quinn by everyone's account ...OK ...LOL... That's if you like leaders to be the kind that everyone likes. I like leaders to be hard-nosed hardasses that don't put up with chit. The kind that take command and take charge ... that have an incredible command of the huddle. Not the ones that fight on the field with their fullbacks during a game.
**Don't know why people keep discounting this, BUT Quinn was playing with a limited playbook because we had a bunch of morons as coaches (thankfully that's over with) ... so for all those "only throwing the ball 5 yards down the field won't get us anywhere" bullcrap ... well, that's just what it is ... bullcrap.
**And with that limited playbook, we put up 34 and 29 points. We moved the ball. Decisions were made quickly. Ball was released on time. Short and intermediate throws were accurate. And here's a novel idea ... we actually answered the other team's scoring drives. When adversity hit, our on-field leader didn't wilt. He lifted everyone else's play.
Maybe it's just me, but that's what I think of. Just because DA can throw a ball 70 yards in the air DOES NOT MEAN HE HAS MORE UPSIDE THAN QUINN. And just because he was a jerk when you hung out with him, doesn't mean BQ is going to be a bust. But hey, if that and DA's rocket arm is why you are in his corner, more power to you. I just hope DA is moving on.
DUDE....first off...you need to relax...this is all just us specualting.....2nd....We are just talking about what we saw, Quinn didn't do all that much when he was in, just like DA didn't either.....I'm not saying BQ isn't the answer, I'm simply saing that if we were offered a 1st round pick for him, then take it......DA can be coached.......what I said was you can't coach arm strength, and that is one thing that he has over Quinn.......... 
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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I think both Edwards and Winslow are expendable. Dallas gave up a first and second for Roy Williams, and IMO Braylon is better then him...And K2 is a great tightend, but for how much longer? I guess it just depends on how much we could get for them.
I'm not saying that they aren't expendible...I just think that with all of the other holes we need to fill, it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to make two more on our offense giving up our two best players........I know that in the draft we can't replace them....now if you bring in TJ for Braylon, then that is different......but I still think that Braylon is just about as good as TJ.....
"Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum 2009 Starting Line-up, Free
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