Whoever the next coach is, I'd like to see a gradual turnover to their vision...not a complete tear down and rebuild...so sick of those and IMO it's unnecessary.
Quote: The Browns need to address LB above almost anything else.
Agreed, that is why I am saying that if we could get a first rounder for Quinn to get either Mauluga, Cushing, or Spikes along with Curry then we should definitely pull the trigger. Imagine if we signed Suggs too, our LBs would be amazing...Suggs, Maualuga, Jackson, Curry...WOW
While I applaud your "outside" the box thinking on how to rebuild the franchise....the "QUINN/WIMBLEY/TUCKER for a 1st....is not only wishful thinking...but also pretty "MADDEN LIKE"
Getting a first for just Quinn is even more crazy in my opinion. He barely was a first rounder when he was drafted....and was only a first rounder because the Browns saved him from his free fall.
Since that time he has shown "NOTHING" to say this guy is worth a first round pick. All he has shown was he was not good enough to beat out a guy that most think is not that good.
In one sentence you say get a first rounder for Quinn...and in the next you say he is not that good........If he is not that good why do you think any NFL team would give you a first for him. 21 NFL teams had a chance to draft him in the first and said no thank you....what has he done to make those talent evaluators that said he is not a #1 pick originally, change their mind and give you a #1 now?
IMO you try and trade DA....if their our no takers due to his contract (which is a whole different discussion) you cut DA...thank him for his work...and wish him well. But you need to get rid of the "QB controversy" Commit to Quinn...find out what you got.
Quinn is the guy from day 1 of camp...you sign a vet either young or old...to come in and compete....with the understanding that Quinn is the guy.
The whole premise of my idea is that if we can get a first rounder for Quinn to draft Maualuga, Cushing, or Spikes then do it. If we can't, hold on to him. I am not saying trade him just to trade him. Same goes with the new offense we are going to be running...if it is a WCO then go with Brady, if it is an air it out type offense then go with DA.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
Well then I would agree with that....if you can get a 1 for BQ get it.....that being said...if you can get a 1 for Phil Dawson...get it......if you can get a 1 for Hank Fraley get it....and if you can get a 1st for Joe Jurevicius...get it
Exactly, I am not counting on getting a 1 for BQ, but there are a few teams picking between 18 and 23 that could use a quarterback so it is a possibility.
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
There are numerous teams in this league who are STILL searching for stability at QB...The single MOST IMPORTANT position on any team...The Browns now have a QB who HAS Franchise potential...Several games of experience and 2 full seasons in the NFL...And u wanna trade him for a 1st round pick which in any other teams mind would be for a POTENTIAL FRANCHISE PLAYER...
NEVER do u let go of what is considered a "Franchise Caliber Player"...
THAT IS WHAT U BUILD A TEAM AROUND...And u want to TRADE one of the most important equations of a building process???...
Actually if you want to get technical...The saying goes, If you don't have a franchise QB already, you DO NOT pass one up in the draft. Those same teams that were searching for a franchise QB's were searching when they passed on Quinn then. So what Franchise considers him a Franchise QB unless you consider yourself and some other FANS Franchises. Don't you think a franchise QB of the magnitude of BQ such as some may want to believe, should be able to beat out Charlie Frye, Derek Anderson...if they are so bad? Who says he is a franchise QB anyway...You? Did Miami think he was a Franchise QB? Did Kansas City, Detroit, NY, Minnesota....or any of the other 21 teams that passed on him for players such as a KR/PR, A WR when they already had several, Kansas City was sitting at 23 and they did not attempt to move up...Teams such as Miami, and Detroit drafted players such as Stanton and Beck...because they had them rated higher than Quinn, several scouts seen him as no more than a third round rated talent. A severely week QB class bumped his status up and that is it. So let's get over the Franchise QB thing and think about common sense and team. Some talk about accuracy issues, Quinn has completed less than 50%of his passes most of which are 5 yarders. You want to talk about investments...We have a full season as starter, 29 TD, a Pro Bowl selection, and a QB proven to be able to move the offense in Anderson. We have nill invested in Quinn.
Some talk about Anderson losing his composure after a interception. I seen the same thing out of Quinn, and I've seen the same thing out of Many QB's. Watch how long it takes Quinn to make a decision...You know why he only completed 5 yard passes? He couldn't keep up with the speed of the game. Thus the misreads Romeo was talking about. Guys were open and he was too slow to react and dumped off to his safety valve. His accuracy issues tell a whole different story about being able to hit his receivers, and his trajectory is bad, plus he doesn't throw a good or accurate long ball. DA lost confidence in his receivers which affected his game. But the poeople on here who annoint Quinn this Supreme being and talk about the games he played in as if he did good are naive. If the number on the Jersey was 9 instead of 10, very few would be arguing or know the difference. Anderson might not be the best QB, but he has the experience, youth, skills from WATCHING the games and so far... is a far better QB. There is absolutely NO argument to support Quinn being a better QB or a Franchise QB. He is expendable, and could help this team become better overall by trading him.
That might be an "old saying", but that isn't necessarily true. If you have an established QB and you have more need, then you go with the need. Let's see how passed up on BQ and their QB situation.
Oakland drafted JaMarcus Russell Detroit had Kinta, but Millen's love for WRs put Johnson on the board. Cleveland picked up Thomas, a bigger need at the time Tampa Bay had a young QB they had already invested in with Simms Arizona had already drafted Leinart Washington had already invested in Ramsey Minnesota had Culpepper at the time Atlanta had Vick Miami....now there's a head scratcher, but they went QB in 2nd rd Houston had David Carr and had traded for Matt Schaub San Fransico already drafted a young QB (name escapes me right now) Buffalo already had JP Losman St. Louis had a young QB they were developing (again, name escapes me) NY Jets had Pennington Pittsburgh invested in Big Ben Green Bay Favre and Rodgers Denver Cutler Cincy Palmer Tennessee Young NY Giants Manning Jacksonville Leftwich and Gerard
Only one team really didn't have a viable starter at QB. They drafted other areas of need. Either they had an established QB or one they were in the process of devloping and not ready to give up on, save Miami. Miami decided to go playmaker first and QB in the later rounds.
So, it's not lie there were a large number of teams needing a QB that passed on BQ.
Quote: There is absolutely NO argument to support Quinn being a better QB or a Franchise QB. He is expendable, and could help this team become better overall by trading him.
LOL. He was a 1st round draft pick, performed reasonably well at ND, and is an Ohio native. You mean that doesn't qualify him a potential franchise QB?
Sorry, had to even though I'll probably get heat.
What offense we commit to depends on who we work with as a franchise QB. Both DA and Quinn have equal potential to be franchise QB material or to be dumped. Who know's if the guys coming in were thinking Quinn to be later round material in the 2007 draft and his few starts and preseason performances after sitting a year learning the system confirmed their opinions that he is highly overrated. They can decide to just keep one as backup for their career here and draft their own potential "fanchise" QB.
Quote: Both DA and Quinn have equal potential to be franchise QB material or to be dumped.
Which is why I imagine/hope that whoever comes in takes some time on this decision.
DA makes a lot of heads around the league salivate...maybe because so many think that THEY can be the one to harness all of his potential.
I don't think he wants to be here, and I don't think the fanbase wants him here...his potential in the eyes of the outsider who comes in is realistically his only shot of hanging around.
LOL. He was a 1st round draft pick, performed reasonably well at ND, and is an Ohio native. You mean that doesn't qualify him a potential franchise QB?
LOL. Neither does buying the whole family #10 jerseys.
Frye vs Green Bay 12/23- 83 yards 52.2 completion percentage 3.6 yards per attempt, 2 TD and 2 Int, 3 sacks 19 yards, QB rating of 53 %, 2 rushes 30 yards
Quinn vs Houston 8/18- 94 yards 44.4 completion percentage 5.2 yards per attempt, 0 TD and 2 Int, 0 sacks, 21.3 rating
how similar can they be? Both had that Moxy, both have weak arms, both from Ohio, the comparisons are scary, both rely on short pass from not seeing receivers getting open.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
LOL. He was a 1st round draft pick, performed reasonably well at ND, and is an Ohio native. You mean that doesn't qualify him a potential franchise QB?
LOL. Neither does buying the whole family #10 jerseys.
Frye vs Green Bay 12/23- 83 yards 52.2 completion percentage 3.6 yards per attempt, 2 TD and 2 Int, 3 sacks 19 yards, QB rating of 53 %, 2 rushes 30 yards
Quinn vs Houston 8/18- 94 yards 44.4 completion percentage 5.2 yards per attempt, 0 TD and 2 Int, 0 sacks, 21.3 rating
how similar can they be? Both had that Moxy, both have weak arms, both from Ohio, the comparisons are scary, both rely on short pass from not seeing receivers getting open.
How about the game against Denver, I'm fairly certain that Charlie never had anything close to that.
But you're the same guy who said trade trash players for the #1 pick so...
Edit: Just checked, Charlie had two games as good as Brady's against the Broncos. If you want to get critical, you could say 2 and a half.
IMHO, Derek Anderson has peaked as a QB. He has no more ceiling to reach. QB's aren't immune to having "career" years or "career game" for that matter. Anderson's happened to be in 2007. His decline as a QB started actaully in the 2nd half of that year. Anderson will always have a future as a backup and spot starter in the NFL. DA lacks that ability to carry a offense on his shoulders when all else breaks down. He's a very easy QB to defense against.
[quoteHow about the game against Denver, I'm fairly certain that Charlie never had anything close to that.
I was waiting for that, So you want to know what Frye did in his first start against Jacksonville do you?
13/20- 65% completion percentage, 226 yards, 11.3 yards per attempt, 2 TD 0 Int, 5 sacks 21 yards(No Joe Thomas), 136.7 QB rating, 2 rushes for 10 yards.
Quinn against Denver in his first start 23/35- 65% completion percentage, 239 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt, 2 TD 0 int, 0 sacks, 104 rating, 1 rush for 3 yards.
Once again scary similar.....two things stand out 1)sacks- again Frye didn't have the benefit of this line 2)yards per attempt- 11.3 for frye, 6.8 for Quinn.
Thanks for asking though
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: [quoteHow about the game against Denver, I'm fairly certain that Charlie never had anything close to that.
I was waiting for that, So you want to know what Frye did in his first start against Jacksonville do you?
13/20- 65% completion percentage, 226 yards, 11.3 yards per attempt, 2 TD 0 Int, 5 sacks 21 yards(No Joe Thomas), 136.7 QB rating, 2 rushes for 10 yards.
Quinn against Denver in his first start 23/35- 65% completion percentage, 239 yards, 6.8 yards per attempt, 2 TD 0 int, 0 sacks, 104 rating, 1 rush for 3 yards.
Once again scary similar.....two things stand out 1)sacks- again Frye didn't have the benefit of this line 2)yards per attempt- 11.3 for frye, 6.8 for Quinn.
Thanks for asking though
Yes, I saw that, thanks.
Perhaps he is. Perhaps he isn't. Then we don't have any franchise QB's, because DA sure as hell isn't going to be one. Even if he does pan out and become average, it won't be here.
Could you tell me where you got the information that BQ has a "weak" arm? I've heard that misconception posted here a few times. Funny, that "weak" arm is able to make all the throws necessary to be a NFL QB.
Quote: IMHO, Derek Anderson has peaked as a QB. He has no more ceiling to reach. QB's aren't immune to having "career" years or "career game" for that matter. Anderson's happened to be in 2007. His decline as a QB started actaully in the 2nd half of that year. Anderson will always have a future as a backup and spot starter in the NFL. DA lacks that ability to carry a offense on his shoulders when all else breaks down. He's a very easy QB to defense against.
Well if 29 TD and a Pro Bowl are his ceiling, we should be jumping all over that. And if he did that inspite of his second half...he should be just fine with a Defense and consistent Receiver play. I believe he carried the team many times including a 5 TD performance against Cinci in a shootout with Palmer. We would not have won that game if we were running the ball all day, just impossible to keep up. Thus he carried the team. He is not an easy QB to defense against...How many teams stacked the Box last year trying to take away the short game? He is the reason we had a prolific offense, not because he was easy to defense. He stretched the field, he scared teams into not stacking the box..thus Jamal having his best year in sometime.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Hows Frye doing in Seattle...he can't even beat out Seneca Wallace. Charlie Frye's biggest problem is his lack of football I.Q. He's a poor student of the game. He's closer to being out of the league then being a #2 or #3 somewhere. He's atheletic,but lacks so many intanigables as QB.
Quote: IMHO, Derek Anderson has peaked as a QB. He has no more ceiling to reach. QB's aren't immune to having "career" years or "career game" for that matter. Anderson's happened to be in 2007. His decline as a QB started actaully in the 2nd half of that year. Anderson will always have a future as a backup and spot starter in the NFL. DA lacks that ability to carry a offense on his shoulders when all else breaks down. He's a very easy QB to defense against.
Well if 29 TD and a Pro Bowl are his ceiling, we should be jumping all over that. And if he did that inspite of his second half...he should be just fine with a Defense and consistent Receiver play. I believe he carried the team many times including a 5 TD performance against Cinci in a shootout with Palmer. We would not have won that game if we were running the ball all day, just impossible to keep up. Thus he carried the team. He is not an easy QB to defense against...How many teams stacked the Box last year trying to take away the short game? He is the reason we had a prolific offense, not because he was easy to defense. He stretched the field, he scared teams into not stacking the box..thus Jamal having his best year in sometime.
So you are willing to tie the fate of the franchise for the near future to a QB because you think he is going to break a habit that he has never shown he could break? Derek Anderson is never going to be what we all want him to be. His arm is a ten million dollar arm, but his footwork and intelligence will prohibit him from being anything more than a good backup/average starter.
Quote: IMHO, Derek Anderson has peaked as a QB. He has no more ceiling to reach. QB's aren't immune to having "career" years or "career game" for that matter. Anderson's happened to be in 2007. His decline as a QB started actaully in the 2nd half of that year. Anderson will always have a future as a backup and spot starter in the NFL. DA lacks that ability to carry a offense on his shoulders when all else breaks down. He's a very easy QB to defense against.
Yeah, because he is in his 3rd year in the NFL and a "seasoned" veteran. LOL. How can rational thought think that an NFL QB "peaks" in his 2nd year in the league. So, the Broncos game will be the highlight of Quinn's career? This year's QB woes goes beyond the gunslinger.
HewDawg,show me proof where Derek Anderson has progressed as a QB? There is no particular year where peaks...It can be any year,whether its 2nd, 4th or 5th. How many good defenses did Anderson have his way against in 2007? When the Browns needed a win over the Bengals to get into the playoffs,Anderson choked. He didn't make enough plays downfield.
With a fresh start that the organization is going to undertake, I can't help but think it would be best if this issue, between these two, was eliminated in some way or another.
Quote: Could you tell me where you got the information that BQ has a "weak" arm? I've heard that misconception posted here a few times. Funny, that "weak" arm is able to make all the throws necessary to be a NFL QB.
They said the same thing about Frye. Just from watching him really, the lack of balls downfield in any game he has played...Pre season and regular, his pro day video watching the receiver slow up...This is what Quinn said when questioning his arm strength, which I am not the only one. "I guess Cleveland fans aren't used to watching many Notre Dame games. You've got too many Ohio State fans up here. I've always been able to make all the throws." -- Brady Quinn, to callers on talk shows questioning his arm strength
In College Brady...not the Pros.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/04/0905:52 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Could you tell me where you got the information that BQ has a "weak" arm? I've heard that misconception posted here a few times. Funny, that "weak" arm is able to make all the throws necessary to be a NFL QB.
His STATS...YPA...Just like everything else he's spewin'...
And I believe he said Quinn's recognition skills are non-existant...Hence the dump downs...lol...
This is WAY 2 OLD to get into again...Thank Gawd that the majority of us realize where we stand...Versus individuals that can't stand Notre Dame...
BTW...Thx for that draft breakdown...U saved me the headache of doing it...AGAIN...
You know arm strength equates to.......when a WR runs a "9" route 40 yards downfield and the ball travels 52.5 yards. Arm strength,I repeat is a overated commodity of a QB. Yeah its nice that a QB can put RPM's on the ball and all.But you know what seperates QB from the other.....intelligence..... I'll take a intelligent QB that can read coverages find wrinkles in a defense over a QB that can throw it 75 mph. Brady Quinn has something Anderson and Frye lacks.....high football I.Q.
Quote: HewDawg,show me proof where Derek Anderson has progressed as a QB? There is no particular year where peaks...It can be any year,whether its 2nd, 4th or 5th. How many good defenses did Anderson have his way against in 2007? When the Browns needed a win over the Bengals to get into the playoffs,Anderson choked. He didn't make enough plays downfield.
I think that both our QB's were so handicapped by Braylon's drops they they both looked a lot worse than they should have. I also think that our under-utilization of Stallworth (once he got healthy) combined with the loss of JJ severely hurt them as well. Winslow, of all people, was our leading receiver until like two weeks after he last played.... and he missed SIX games this season. That's just completely pathetic.
I personally like Quinn better, but I came away from this season not convinced that DA couldn't be the guy; not convinced that he didn't improve. I think that had Braylon not completely sucked as bad as he did (especially early on), that DA could and would have looked far and away better than he did and that had he gotten off to that good start, only the sky would be the limit. It really would have changed everything. If Braylon was catching things, they roll more coverage to him which opens Stallworth, which opens the underneath stuff, etc... It's the chain-reaction that shut down our O, but in reverse.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
When the Browns needed a win over the Bengals to get into the playoffs,Anderson choked. He didn't make enough plays downfield.
If you want to blame someone...blame a first year coordinator that thought throwing into 50 MPH gusts was a good idea. Go look at the wind game this year in Buffalo. Matt Cassel threw 8 times in that game for 78 yards as New England won 13-0. In Comparison Chud had Anderson throw an amazing 48 times.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
And I believe he said Quinn's recognition skills are non-existant...Hence the dump downs...lol...
This is WAY 2 OLD to get into again...Thank Gawd that the majority of us realize where we stand...Versus individuals that can't stand Notre Dame...
BTW...Thx for that draft breakdown...U saved me the headache of doing it...AGAIN...
Are you arguing recognition skills? if so that is weak. LOL
If I don't like Quinn because of Notre Dame...Is it fair for me to say you like Quinn because of Notre Dame...maybe a little Man Crush...what else can it be? Please I am waiting for something to make me change my mind...anything. And don't tell me he has nice hair or he sells a lot of Jerseys.
Don't thank me for the draft breakdown...I didn't supply it.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/04/0906:13 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Hows Frye doing in Seattle...he can't even beat out Seneca Wallace. Charlie Frye's biggest problem is his lack of football I.Q. He's a poor student of the game. He's closer to being out of the league then being a #2 or #3 somewhere. He's atheletic,but lacks so many intanigables as QB.
Which makes the fact that Quinn couldn't beat either Frye or Anderson, supoport my argument not yours.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: Hows Frye doing in Seattle...he can't even beat out Seneca Wallace. Charlie Frye's biggest problem is his lack of football I.Q. He's a poor student of the game. He's closer to being out of the league then being a #2 or #3 somewhere. He's atheletic,but lacks so many intanigables as QB.
Which makes the fact that Quinn couldn't beat either Frye or Anderson, supoport my argument not yours.
Quinn was never in an open competition with Frye and Anderson.
Brady Quinn has something Anderson and Frye lacks.....high football I.Q.
Show me where he has exhibited this high football IQ. Maybe when Romeo was talking about Quinns "Misreads" He was refering to something else...like team story time?
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
My point is that this season really is hard to make sound judgements for and against our QBs with regards to the performances of our receiving corps. The only thing we can all honestly say about our QBs on roster is Ken Dorsey truly is bottom of the barrel, lol! Fate put us in a particularly hairy situation at QB this year.
Brady Quinn has something Anderson and Frye lacks.....high football I.Q.
Show me where he has exhibited this high football IQ. Maybe when Romeo was talking about Quinns "Misreads" He was refering to something else...like team story time?
Rewatching that video, why do you think that NFL network threw in 3 dropped passes by DA's targets after he came in the game? LOL. I think that sums up our QB woes with both DA and Quinn. Let's see what happens when the dust settles when both compete in training camp and the preseason next year. What will the reaction be on here if the new coaching staff backs DA? Will people call them incompetent? What if its Quinn? An obvious decision? I personally find this debate entertaining.
I'm going to be nice and ask for clarification. Are you saying that BQ cant make "all the throws" in the pros but he could in college? You do realize that the field is the same size, right? Ther is no differnce for ARM STRENGTH between the pros and college as far as what is needed.
So, you are saying we should go with a QB that can OCCASIONALLY hit a deep ball and stretch the field, but can't throw the ball for 35% completion anything short of 15 yards? Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
Seriously, you can try to discount BQ's abilities all you want after TWO AND A HALF GAMES, but seriously, that is LAUGHABLE. If that were the measuring stick, I'm pretty sure there would only have been a handful of QBs make it past their first season with ANY team.
Quote: Hows Frye doing in Seattle...he can't even beat out Seneca Wallace. Charlie Frye's biggest problem is his lack of football I.Q. He's a poor student of the game. He's closer to being out of the league then being a #2 or #3 somewhere. He's atheletic,but lacks so many intanigables as QB.
Did you think I was going to let this false statement go about Charlie, Impact? Charlie isn't a student of the game? That is TOTALLY false. Charlie was and is a religious student of the game. He logs as much time studying the game as anyone in the league.
Sorry, but Charlies biggest problem is that he was drafted by Cleveland and thrown to the wolves too soon. He needed time to develop and he was thrust into a situation where some games the receivers ran the wrong route up to 45% of the time. That developed into bad habits of holding the ball too long and not trusting his receivers to be where they should be. A QB throws to a spot, not a player. When you can't trust the recevier to be at the right spot, then you hesitate....or you throw it and the receivers not in the area nad it's picked off.
Charlie's game has serious holes in it, but being a poor student of the game is NOT one of them.
Quote: That might be an "old saying", but that isn't necessarily true. If you have an established QB and you have more need, then you go with the need. Let's see how passed up on BQ and their QB situation.
Oakland drafted JaMarcus Russell Detroit had Kinta, but Millen's love for WRs put Johnson on the board. Cleveland picked up Thomas, a bigger need at the time Tampa Bay had a young QB they had already invested in with Simms Arizona had already drafted Leinart Washington had already invested in Ramsey Minnesota had Culpepper at the time Atlanta had Vick Miami....now there's a head scratcher, but they went QB in 2nd rd Houston had David Carr and had traded for Matt Schaub San Fransico already drafted a young QB (name escapes me right now) Buffalo already had JP Losman St. Louis had a young QB they were developing (again, name escapes me) NY Jets had Pennington Pittsburgh invested in Big Ben Green Bay Favre and Rodgers Denver Cutler Cincy Palmer Tennessee Young NY Giants Manning Jacksonville Leftwich and Gerard
Only one team really didn't have a viable starter at QB. They drafted other areas of need. Either they had an established QB or one they were in the process of devloping and not ready to give up on, save Miami. Miami decided to go playmaker first and QB in the later rounds.
So, it's not lie there were a large number of teams needing a QB that passed on BQ.
Minnesota didn't have Daunte, they had Tarvaris who they thought was the QB of the future. Jets had Clemens who they too thought was the QB of the future. St.Louis wanted to win now not build for the future. So did Jacksonville. SF had Alex Smith and didn't give up on him at that point. Washington had Campbell, a 2005 first round pick. Jon Gruden will never take a QB in the first round, he is that stubborn, he hates developing young QB. The only headscratcher was Miami, but their terrible decision makers at the time fell in love with John Beck and felt that Ginn/Beck was better than Quinn. Brady fell mainly b/c not many teams had QB needs...if the Ravens had the 9th pick they would've taken Brady.
Quote: I'm going to be nice and ask for clarification. Are you saying that BQ cant make "all the throws" in the pros but he could in college? You do realize that the field is the same size, right? Ther is no differnce for ARM STRENGTH between the pros and college as far as what is needed.
So, you are saying we should go with a QB that can OCCASIONALLY hit a deep ball and stretch the field, but can't throw the ball for 35% completion anything short of 15 yards? Yeah, that makes alot of sense.
Seriously, you can try to discount BQ's abilities all you want after TWO AND A HALF GAMES, but seriously, that is LAUGHABLE. If that were the measuring stick, I'm pretty sure there would only have been a handful of QBs make it past their first season with ANY team.
The speed of the game is faster. Whereas Ken Dorsey looks like Montana in College and looks like Madonna in the pros. Is it fair to say that Dorsey would not be able to throw a very good 15 yard out? We know he could throw the ball that far...Defenses react faster players make up ground faster, and what you were successful doing in college does not always translate to the next level. I said his arm is weak and it could change his whole game style if he knows he can't get the ball to a sprinting Stallworth or on a 15 yard out without fearing the closing speed of the secondary, which would make him favor the underneath game and the dink and dunk routine. Of course he could throw the ball far enough on a 15 yard out, but could he get it in that window of time the receiver is open? Could he split two defenders 20 yards downfield, without the secondary having time to react on the ball? I have yet to see it.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
Quote: [ Minnesota didn't have Daunte, they had Tarvaris who they thought was the QB of the future. Jets had Clemens who they too thought was the QB of the future. St.Louis wanted to win now not build for the future. So did Jacksonville. SF had Alex Smith and didn't give up on him at that point. Washington had Campbell, a 2005 first round pick. Jon Gruden will never take a QB in the first round, he is that stubborn, he hates developing young QB. The only headscratcher was Miami, but their terrible decision makers at the time fell in love with John Beck and felt that Ginn/Beck was better than Quinn. Brady fell mainly b/c not many teams had QB needs...if the Ravens had the 9th pick they would've taken Brady.
Let me get this right. Teams considered Tavaris Jackson, Kellen Clemens, Simms, a busted Smith(who is behind Hill and O'Sullivan), whoever was in KC that they didn't attempt to move up one slot, better than Quinn? Not to mention teams like Detroit going after another receiver, drafting Stanton in Two, and Miami drafting Ginn, and Beck in the second. So would it be fair to say they thought the guys they had were better than Quinn, enough so to pass on a franchise QB? I don't seem to recall any of those guys on that list ever being called a franchise QB.
The same guy that passed on Quinn after working with him prior to the draft, had something to do with Baltimore drafting Flacco this year...Cam Cameron. Cam also oversaw Drew Brees and Philip Rivers in San Diego.
Last edited by LOYALDAWG; 01/04/0907:48 PM.
"Going from 4-12 to 6-10 isn't good enough. I believe we are going to be better than that. We're going to be a lot better than that." - Mike Holmgren (3/15/12)
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Thanks NaTaS
Just from watching him really, the lack of balls downfield in any game he has played...Pre season and regular, his pro day video watching the receiver slow up...This is what Quinn said when questioning his arm strength, which I am not the only one.
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