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First off I am not big on this Czar type GM ( Savage ) .. the Coach keeps or looses his job based on how the Players perform .. I like the idea of Lerner trying to find two guys that can work together .. I still think the HC. needs to have final say on the roster ..
Marty was a winning coach who has seen it all .. Working with an up an comer like Sag, is a win , win situation to me .. We have a scouting dept. in operation as I type .. Sag. will want certain players and Marty can give the young man some help ..
As I have said before ; Marty knows what it is like to have to put up with GM's and owners .. He has been there done that .. I think this personal thing is blown way out of perportion when it come to Marty ..
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j/c
I completely understand the desire for Heckert, an experienced GM. But why the lovefest for Spagnuolo, another rookie head coach?? Everybody talks about doing SOMETHING DIFFERENT this time. Assuming our options are Pioli-Ferentz/McDaniels, Heckert-Spagnoulo, or Kokinis-Mangini, and considering we haven't hired an experienced head coach since 1971, I think the Mangini/Kokinis combo is about as 'different' as we can get right now. If we must choose, I think I would much rather have the experienced head coach than the experienced GM at this point. Just my .02.
Huh? How on earth is the Mangini/Kokinis combo as "different" as we can get right now. I actually think it's as close as we can get to more of the same as possible.
Kokinis has the exact same background as Savage... both worked for the Browns and moved to Baltimore with the team, both worked under Ozzie, the big difference is that Kokinis hasn't been relied on as heavily as Savage was in the personnel department and is actually less qualified for the talent side of the job.
Mangini has a very similar background to Crennel as well... he was brought aboard by Belichick when he went to the Jets and then again when he switched to the Patriots, just like RAC. The only huge difference in the two backgrounds is the time Romeo spent in Cleveland vs. the time Mangini spent in New York and the positions. Mangini is a relatively quiet guy on the sidelines (one of the reasons he was canned is because he lacked fire), he made questionable in-game decisions, and he coached the exact same soft 3-4 defense. I have absolutely had it with the soft New England defense without Belichick. It's clear he's the mastermind there. Both guys left New England with great defensive reputations, yet both teams stunk on defense last year. Mangini's Jets actually gave up MORE points than we did. The big difference is that with Mangini, there is discipline and organization instead of having a player's coach. While I agree that's a change we need, that's not a big enough change to ignore all the other similarities.
Spagnuolo on the other hand, comes from the Jim Johnson school of defense, which means aggression and attack instead of bend-don't-break. It also means the 4-3 which I think better fits our current personnel. Johnson and Spagnuolo both coached top notch defenses last year. Plus, Spagnuolo is a fiery guy and would still bring discipline to this team, but he wouldn't be hated in doing so. Yes, he'd be a rookie head coach, but he has more total years in coaching and if you're viewing this as a package deal, you're gaining a guy who has actually been a GM (minus the final call and control) for years to compensate. I'd like a bit more experience from the team we bring in but at this point, I'd take the Spags/Heckert team given the alternatives.
The only real way we see Spags/Heckert is if Heckert blows Lerner away in his interview and strongly recommends Spags, similar to how Mangini blew him away and recommended Kokinis. That's the only real way to break Mangini's spell over Lerner IMO.
We're... we're good?
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1st String
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Maybe the real difference between Savage and Kokinis is that Kokinis has been brought up with experience piecing a team together, while Savage's upbringing was more focused on scouting players and giving grades on players. In other words, he was prone to making mistakes by making decisions that weren't best for piecing together a team....... Perhaps Savage was obsessed with hitting every one of his picks that he lost the sight that fielding a good TEAM goes beyond trying to hit on every draft pick? (hence why it's so important to acquire many draft picks...not only to find hits but to find warm bodies who can fill key roles)
I really don't know...I'm trying to speculate as best I can.
Great post!
Maybe there is some truth and value to your "continuity" thesis. I know we are all grabbing at straws since none of us know the real story, but this has some merit.
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I just keep trying to be patient,...but it is hard.
As long as teams are still playing, there are probably some viable candidates for either position we really can't talk to at this point, nor should we become a distraction.
We will probably have to wait until after the playoffs before everything is completed in full.
3-4 more weeks isn't going to hurt anything.
our scouts are still scouting and gathering information.
The new coach and GM won't have to spend that much time to get a handle on our current roster to identify who might be a part of the plan and who might not.
What is important is Lerner get's the two guys he feels will do the best job...individually and as a team. When we hire them isn't as much of a factor unless we start pushing towards March.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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It's not hard for a lot of people to mess something up when most people's "sources" are other people in the media! It's a gigantic circle, one person extrapolates, another guesses based on that, a third reports it and BOOM. Heck, if the 2000 Presidential Election (an event only slightly more important than the Browns chosing a GM and coach) could be reported wrongly, anything could be.
Correct argument, but poor example 
The media actually got it right back in 2000; it was the Florida Election Commission and the Supreme Court that got it wrong. 
All speculation aside, all we can really assess and judge is how Lerner is going about the process. And, even that is open to a lot of debate because we have yet to see the outcome...
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All Pro
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Heckert- V.P. of the team
Kokansi(whatever) G.M. in control of the 53 man roster
Mangini H.C.
U could be on to something...I get a feeling Lerner wants a true structure put in place.
Actually that makes sense.
Isn't McKay actually the VP for Atlanta, not the "GM"?
Plus, besides Mangini, that is a step up for both Kokonis and Heckert because Heckert is the the GM for Philly now, and Kok isn't the GM in B-More.
I was also wondering how, and why, Heckert would make a lateral move out of a good situation in Philly ?
I like that alot,..... I think......, that gives our "rookie" GM in Kokonis some EXPERIENCED guidance.
Now, I don't know if that has even crossed Lerner's mind, but I think that could really work.
But what the heck do I know ??? 
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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" Spagnuolo on the other hand, comes from the Jim Johnson school of defense, which means aggression and attack instead of bend-don't-break. It also means the 4-3 which I think better fits our current personnel. Johnson and Spagnuolo both coached top notch defenses last year. Plus, Spagnuolo is a fiery guy and would still bring discipline to this team, but he wouldn't be hated in doing so. Yes, he'd be a rookie head coach, but he has more total years in coaching and if you're viewing this as a package deal, you're gaining a guy who has actually been a GM (minus the final call and control) for years to compensate. " Now thats what I'm talkin about
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Well it's whats missing from the Browns..
Lerner doesn't have someone in charge of others who reports to him.
It's the missing piece..
Even if it's not those names persay..there needs to be a link .
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Looks like maybe Heckert wants to move on to his next project.......
Source: Eagles GM Heckert to interview with Browns
Philadelphia Daily News
Despite the Eagles' resurgence, it still seems likely that general manager Tom Heckert will leave the team this offseason.
A league source confirmed last night that Heckert will interview with the Cleveland Browns for their GM job, probably this weekend. The Browns had to ask permission to speak with Heckert, which the Eagles granted.
Heckert, who came to the team in 2001 when Tom Modrak was forced out, carries the GM title with the Eagles but does not have final say in personnel matters. There was a time when the Eagles responded to other teams' interest in him by promoting him, but last offseason, they actively pushed the idea of Heckert's candidacy to run the Atlanta Falcons.
Right after last spring's draft, Heckert's top assistant, Jason Licht, was dismissed. His replacement was Howie Roseman, protege of team president Joe Banner. *
- Les Bowen
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Channel 5 just reported Mangini will be announced as the next head coach at a presser tomorrow morning!
Our honor defend, we will fight to the end, for OHIO! GO BUCKS!
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I agree and give Lerner 'A" for effort.
No matter how it turns out, he can't be accused of making a knee jerk decision in some uneducated fashion.
I give Randy a lot of credit for his choice. He ignored everybody's opinons and did what he thought was best for the team. He showed some back bone, which is a good thing at this point in time
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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I didnt see this mentioned anywhere and figured this thread was as good as any. I just saw at the bottom of the screen that John Clayton is reporting that Eagles GM Tom Heckert is withdrawing his name for the Browns GM job.
Kokinis is set to interview on Sunday. Ive read that some officials say that he is less prepared then Savage was. Some said that he will work his butt off 24/7 and sleep in his office. I cant remember if i read that on this site or not.
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Browns still in market for GM By John Clayton ESPN.com Archive Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner didn't have much trouble hiring a new coach in Eric Mangini, but he might have some difficulty pairing him up with a general manager. Why? The coach was hired before the GM. Philadelphia Eagles general manager Tom Heckert informed the Browns on Thursday that he is withdrawing his name from consideration to be their GM, according to a source. Heckert was scheduled to interview for the job on Friday. Settled into a good situation in Philadelphia, Heckert decided it didn't make sense to pursue a job in which he wouldn't have a voice in the hiring of a coach. Although there is no official word, it is unlikely that New England Patriots vice president of player personnel Scott Pioli would take the job for the same reason. Next week, the Browns will attempt to meet with George Kokinis, the Ravens' director of pro personnel. Kokinis is a longtime friend of Mangini's. Senior writer John Clayton covers the NFL for ESPN.com. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3818623Kok is da man it appears!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I didnt see this mentioned anywhere and figured this thread was as good as any. I just saw at the bottom of the screen that John Clayton is reporting that Eagles GM Tom Heckert is withdrawing his name for the Browns GM job.
I just saw that also... Spectre referred to it in another thread a few moments ago.
So it's just Kokinis and maybe McKay left and I'm not sure about McKay either..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Is it just me or are the egos in coaching and FO people getting a bit out of hand?
"WAAAAAHHHHHH, if I can't work with my handpicked people, I'm not interested!!!"
These guys should stop whining when their wide receivers complain about the QB they've been forced to work with.. these guys are no better. Good grief.
yebat' Putin
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I didnt see this mentioned anywhere and figured this thread was as good as any. I just saw at the bottom of the screen that John Clayton is reporting that Eagles GM Tom Heckert is withdrawing his name for the Browns GM job.
I just saw that also... Spectre referred to it in another thread a few moments ago.
So it's just Kokinis and maybe McKay left and I'm not sure about McKay either..
My gut is telling me Lerner told these guys to forget it, i.e. no wasted time.
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I didnt see this mentioned anywhere and figured this thread was as good as any. I just saw at the bottom of the screen that John Clayton is reporting that Eagles GM Tom Heckert is withdrawing his name for the Browns GM job.
I just saw that also... Spectre referred to it in another thread a few moments ago.
So it's just Kokinis and maybe McKay left and I'm not sure about McKay either..
My gut is telling me Lerner told these guys to forget it, i.e. no wasted time.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not a gut feeling! 
#gmstrong
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Legend
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I thought I was having a gut feeling this morning, but it was just the bean soup I made with the leftover Christmas ham...
yebat' Putin
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I'd be happier if they weren't called "Navy" beans,..... Just a joke,....
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Legend
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Well they aren't Pinto Beans. 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Now, HOW did you know I used to drive a Pinto ??  Dang, I am old,....
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Is it just me or are the egos in coaching and FO people getting a bit out of hand?
"WAAAAAHHHHHH, if I can't work with my handpicked people, I'm not interested!!!"
I think what everyone here is forgetting is this,,, Randy Lerner and the Lerner family own the Browns...
he can hire whoever he wants...
I know some are angry over not getting Pioli... but think about it, if the OWNER decided he didn't want a first time HC and taking Pioli ment Ferentz, then why Hire Pioli.... Makes no sense to me.
That it tantamont to Pioli dictating to the Owner what is what.. sorry, that is a dumb way to start out..
I think that's what Savage did.. the only way that works is if everything goes right... it didn't and you see where Phil is sitting right now...
Right or wrong, What lerner wants is what he gets and thats how it should be, he's paying the bills.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Right or wrong, What lerner wants is what he gets and thats how it should be, he's paying the bills.
I certainly understand that.. but if we want a winning franchise, then Lerner has to temper that power with an understanding of his own limitations... and he needs to hire people with the skill set to make this a winning franchise and then get out of the way and let them do their jobs.. whether that's a coach first then a cooperative GM or a GM first with the power to hire and fire coaches or something in between.. all manner of systems have worked in the past...
yebat' Putin
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DC, I agree with you, and I think Lerner knew that, too. That's why he followed the advice of Ernie Accorsi.
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Kok is da man it appears!
Maybe...Maybe not...
Browns may talk with ex-Broncos GM Sundquist
Posted by Mary Kay Cabot/Plain Dealer Reporter January 08, 2009 20:03PM
Former Broncos GM Ted Sundquist could be interviewed by the Browns soon.
Eagles General Manager Tom Heckert has taken himself out of the running for the Browns GM vacancy and the team might interview former Broncos GM Ted Sundquist, a league source told The Plain Dealer Thursday.
Heckert, who was scheduled to interview on Friday, pulled his name because he wanted to have a say in hiring the head coach. The Browns are planning to touch bases with Heckert again on Friday, but he won't change his mind, the source said.
Heckert agreed to interview with the Browns before they hired Eric Mangini on Wednesday night. If Heckert had been interviewed, he probably would've pushed for Giants defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo, who interviewed with the Browns last Thursday.
The Browns will interview Ravens director of pro personnel George Kokinas on Sunday, but are prepared to reach out to other candidates, including Sundquist, who spent six seasons as Broncos GM before being fired in March.
Kokinis, who is Mangini's first choice, is the front-runner, but the Browns are keeping their options open.
The new GM has to be able to work well with the new coach, but Mangini has identified other candidates besides Kokinis. Another name that could appear on the radar screen is Colts Vice President of Football Operations Chris Polian, son of team president Bill Polian.
The Browns feel they landed their key man in Mangini and can now take their time in finding the right GM. They still have a fallback option in current Browns director of pro personnel T.J. McCreight, who interviewed for the job last week. They haven't decided whether or not he'll remain with the team.
Sundquist spent 16 years with the Broncos and was pursued by several other teams before being named Broncos GM in 2002. He's widely respected for his player-acquisition and negotiating skills.
Mangini made clear his respect for his good friend Kokinis Thursday.
"He's an outstanding person, he's impressive and he's got tremendous substance," said Mangini. "That being said, what ultimately is important is to get the very best people we can get in here to fill each of the roles. We're going to go through that process and meet different candidates."
He said who has final say on the roster isn't as important as the coach and GM reaching a consensus every day.
http://blog.cleveland.com/sports/2009/01/heckert_ends_gm_candidacy_brow.html
Go Browns!!!
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Kok is da man it appears!
Maybe...Maybe not...
Supposedly he's still the favorite by a large margin and sources would be stunned if he doesn't get the job. I think these guys, if they're even brought in, are just as insurance in case something unforseen goes wrong. There's about 0 chance we get Chris Polian though... he's working under his dad who is 65. I think that's going to be a situation where his dad steps down in a few years and he takes over. It would be ridiculously hard to pull anyone from a situation like that.
We're... we're good?
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When I heard Lerner talk yesterday, I got the impression he's zeroing in on guys who could work with EM in case Kok doesn't work..or if he feels one of the others is a better GM ..so I'll sit back and see who actually gets hired..
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I wasn't trying in indicate Coke is a "lock". But signs point that he seems to be the "favorite" at this juncture.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Looks like Heckert isn't out of the running yet . . . http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/37321589.htmlHeckert postpones Browns interview Crennel may have role as adviser to Mangini By Marla Ridenour Beacon Journal sports writer Published on Friday, Jan 09, 2009 BEREA: Browns general manager candidate Tom Heckert has not officially pulled his name out of consideration but has postponed a scheduled interview with owner Randy Lerner to weigh his options, a league source said Thursday. Heckert, the Philadelphia Eagles' general manager and the son of a former Browns scout, was reportedly set to talk to Lerner this weekend. Another source and Jay Glazer of Fox Sports reported that Heckert had withdrawn. Lerner is expected to rubber-stamp new coach Eric Mangini's suggestion of his close friend, Baltimore Ravens Director of Pro Personnel George Kokinis. But the Ravens won't allow Kokinis to be interviewed until Sunday. The only others interviewed for the top football job were New England Patriots Vice President of Player Personnel Scott Pioli, now out of the running because of Mangini's hiring and still a candidate with Kansas City, and Browns Director of Player Personnel T.J. McCreight. A source said former Denver Broncos General Manager Ted Sundquist has expressed interest in the Browns position, but an interview has not been scheduled. When differences with coach Mike Shanahan could not be reconciled, Sundquist was let go by the Broncos last March after spending 16 years with the team, six as GM. Shanahan was fired last week. ''I have tremendous respect for George and I've known him for a long time,'' Mangini said of Kokinis, whom he met when they worked for the Browns in 1994. ''As a person, he's outstanding; as a professional, he's impressive. He's got tremendous substance. What ultimately is important is to get the very best people we can.'' As to who will have the power, presuming Kokinis is the choice, Mangini said: ''It's not going to be a function of what's defined on the contract. It's not going to be a function of individual fiefdoms or any of that. What matters is the GM and I work together every day and create decisions based on consensus.'' Coordinators picked? Mangini said he hopes to hire New York Jets quarterbacks coach Brian Daboll as his offensive coordinator and Oakland Raiders defensive coordinator Rob Ryan to that same post. Adam Schefter of NFL.com reported the deal with Ryan was done. Mangini said he will run the 3-4 defense like his predecessor, Romeo Crennel, but not if he doesn't find the Browns' personnel adequate for that scheme. Spot for Crennel? Mangini didn't rule out trying to find a role for Crennel, perhaps as an adviser. They worked together for seven years with the Jets and Patriots, and Crennel and his wife, Rosemary, lived with the Manginis while their house was being built in New England. ''He's an amazing guy,'' Mangini said. ''I have nothing but absolute respect and love for him. I called him when I got the news and his response, how happy he was, how he'd love to help any way possible, that's who he is. I learned a ton of football from him and I'd love to have him here.'' About those QBs One of Mangini's biggest decisions will be what to do with quarterbacks Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson, especially since Anderson is due a $5 million roster bonus in March. Mangini didn't say if he wanted to name his starter by training camp. ''You have to assess what they can do physically, you have to get to know what their huddle presence is like, how they are mentally, their decision-making process,'' he said. ''That's not something you just see right away. It's not something that necessarily happens quickly. You go through a process and make a decision when you feel the decision is right.'' Asked if he could see going to camp with both, Mangini said, ''Gosh, that seems far away.''
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Browns general manager candidate Tom Heckert has not officially pulled his name out of consideration but has postponed a scheduled interview with owner Randy Lerner to weigh his options It gets more interesting..the media is misquoting and practically butchering all the reports coming out about the GMs.. A source said former Denver Broncos General Manager Ted Sundquist has expressed interest in the Browns position, but an interview has not been scheduled It gets more intriguing...
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It gets more intriguing...
Yep, Heckert, Kokinis, Polian, and Sundquist are apparantly possibilities. I like that new names have popped into the equation AFTER the Mangini hiring.
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He definitely cancelled. The only optimism is coming from Randy Lerner who didn't think he'd withdraw his name just because Mangini was named. This is the report that's everywhere from multiple sources and was also put out there on Thursday. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/heckert_ends_gm_candidacy_brow.html"Heckert, who was scheduled to interview on Friday, pulled his name because he wanted to have a say in hiring the head coach. The Browns are planning to touch bases with Heckert again on Friday, but he won't change his mind, the source said." Randy thinks that Heckert is just thinking over things, but Heckert has already made up his mind. Honestly, what GM candidate wants to leave a GM position that he's comfortable in for another in which he'd have no say over the head coach? The fact that Randy didn't even give Heckert the opportunity to talk up his guy (Spagnuolo) during his interview should be a huge turn-off. If his opinion doesn't matter in this hiring process, how valuable will it be in the future? I think it's pretty clear now to everyone involved that if you're looking for a very qualified GM, you simply cannot put a coach in place without involving him.
We're... we're good?
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Legend
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certainly understand that.. but if we want a winning franchise, then Lerner has to temper that power with an understanding of his own limitations... and he needs to hire people with the skill set to make this a winning franchise and then get out of the way and let them do their jobs
No argument from me but how do you know he didn't just do that?
Almost everything he's doing right now is being questioned by some.. Including me. But at some point, you have to at least acknowledge that this isn't his first rodeo. He's been down this path once before and he's seen (from up close and personal) what didn't work.
That doesn't mean he knows what DOES work, it just means that there was most likely a learning curve that he went through. Hopfully, he came out the other side a better and more knowledgeable owner. One can only hope.
That he hasn't pleased everyone shouldn't really shock anyone. When was the last time you can think of that the owner of any sports franchise did EVERYTHING RIGHT ACCORDING TO EVERYONE?
I can't think of one.. no one.
Remember when the Pats won thier last superbowl and RAC was the DC... Hell, my partner lives in Haverhill MA,,,, just north of Boston. He told me that the day after the Superbowl when it was announced that the Pats were losing RAC, some fans up there were ready to mutiny if they didn't find a way to keep him. Amazing isn't it.
Win a superbowl and the next day, some fans are steaming cause they lost thier beloved DC....
How many on here actually thought that when Bob Kraft hired Belichick as the HC that he was going to be successful.. Count me among those that thought Kraft was a fool..
Needless to say,, I was a little bit wrong about that. 
Will mangini work out... hell if I know. But I'm pretty confident that Lerner thinks so. And I'm pretty confident that Lerner grew as an owner by the way he dissected the issues at the end of the season and moved swiftly to make changes.
Will they all work out... frankly, I have NO IDEA....
But all in all, I don't know if he didn't just solve most of the problems that are present with this team...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
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Randy thinks that Heckert is just thinking over things, but Heckert has already made up his mind. Honestly, what GM candidate wants to leave a GM position that he's comfortable in for another in which he'd have no say over the head coach? The fact that Randy didn't even give Heckert the opportunity to talk up his guy (Spagnuolo) during his interview should be a huge turn-off. If his opinion doesn't matter in this hiring process, how valuable will it be in the future? I think it's pretty clear now to everyone involved that if you're looking for a very qualified GM, you simply cannot put a coach in place without involving him.
And yet...Denver is doing the same thing............
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
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No argument from me but how do you know he didn't just do that?
I don't. I don't know anything more than the kernels of truth I can try to pull from the 9000 articles of speculation, just like everybody else. It is my sincere hope and belief that Randy Lerner understands that he's not the guy to lead an NFL team and that he needs people to do it... but pretty much everything I say about this is speculation, just like everybody else.
yebat' Putin
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Joined: Dec 2006
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Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
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And yet...Denver is doing the same thing............
I never said it wasn't an option, I said if you want an experienced GM don't expect to put the coach in place before him. I think it's goofy that Lerner thought he could go to guys like Pioli and Heckert and say that he had decided on Mangini but expected them to still come aboard. These guys leave their teams for more control, not less and not even being involved in the head coaching interview process is an incentive for no one.
I still disagree with the concept in principle anyway. I've always been of the notion that even if you don't have a stud GM, you need to have a rock solid front office in place to make the important decisions. If you don't, anything that's churned out will likely be subpar. We've seen that for a decade now, but apparently it's still not enough to learn that particular lesson.
We're... we're good?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
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Ya know..U are just so peeved that everything is pinned down in your intestines...get a grip ...take a breath..stop getting all emotional and watch it take form.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
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I never said it wasn't an option, I said if you want an experienced GM don't expect to put the coach in place before him.
Holy Schnikes Spec,, we finally agree on something I have trouble beliving that we would be able to get an experienced GM with TOTAL control of the team if he was stuck with a coach he didn't pick.. I concede that as true.
What I don't know is if it's a big deal. I've kinda been of the impression that as long as one of the two guys is experienced, I'd be ok with that.
Mangini is, despite what else is said, an experienced HC. One with a decent, not outstanding, but decent record.
I keep asking myself,, would it be better to have an experienced HC and rookie GM, or the other way around. I see value in each. But when it comes right down to it, I think I'd go with the Experienced HC and a first time GM.
Seems to me that the biggest and hardest adjustments occur on the field.. and that's where I think experience matters most. But that's JMO,,
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
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Poser
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So, if you fire your GM or he resigns, then you have to get rid of the HC before you can get any good GM candidates to come in? After all, you are stating that you can't have a coach in place and get a good GM.
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 43,086 |
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After all, you are stating that you can't have a coach in place and get a good GM.
THere is a problem or some kinda disconnect there Coach....
If a GM gets fired or resigns and the team is doing very very well.. then I can see where bringing in another GM and keeping the existing coaching staff would work..
On the other hand,, let's say we have the Cleveland Browns of 2008.. 4-12,, lousy record,, the GM gets canned.. but RAC remains and is told, the HC job is his and the New GM can't fire him... NOW, I see a problem... BIG PROBLEM....
In fact,, remember when the Steelers changed the FO staff in the mid 90's? That's basically what happened. Donohue (or whatever his name is) was replaced and Cowher stayed on..
There are exceptions Coach...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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