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also, I think we are missing a big piece in these discussions. not only does hiring Mangini quickly wrap him up, but it allows him to go out and get his staff setup before other coaching vacancies start grabbing candidates (and the waterfall effect of replacing where those coaches came from).
And, no, I am not just talking about OC and DC though those are obviously important (and Rob Ryan was going to be a DC somewhere next year), but also the lower assistants that Mangini is likely reaching out to now and filling as well while others remain stagnant.
It is important to build the coaching staff all the way through and that is why it is an advantage to get things started early.
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not only does hiring Mangini quickly wrap him up, but it allows him to go out and get his staff setup before other coaching vacancies start grabbing candidates (and the waterfall effect of replacing where those coaches came from).
Personally, I hadn't given that much thought, but I do remember what a disadvantage it seemed to be for RAC when he was hired so late in the year... all or most of the good ones were gone..
Good point
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You wanted established leadership....you got in in an experienced HC. You wnated this thing built the right way....you got it. Ernie Accorsi has been involved in EVERY decision and he is one of the best football minds EVER. He is MUCH more qualified to be aiding in the search for a HC than Pioli or ANY GM that was available to hire. You do know Accorsi's history, irght?
I saw all of those wanting experience....I was one of them. I got what I wanted, an experienced HC, a great football mind aiding in the decision, and now I'm confidant we'll get a GM that will work WITH the HC. You got what you wanted, too, you just don't like the choice because he's not the flavor of the month.
I guess I'm still left scratching my head and wondering just WHO are all these experienced candidates that would actually be acceptable to some folks! Outside of Parcells, Cowher and Shanahan who are they?
Name me a few that sound good that havnt been run out of two or three NFL cities!
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I haven't proven that? I guess in all those articles you have read, you dismissed those that didn't have some way of being inferred to your point of view.
You can "read betwen the lines"? LOL, enough said. I don't have to. I know the facts. You ignore them. Lerner took the advice of Accorsi and the research that showed the importance of an experienced HC. He made the hire based on the information available. He wil now hire a GM that will work with the HC. Those are the facts. You don't have to read between any lines to know them. You just have to stop dismissing the facts.
I am well aware of your facts and I pay attention to them. They don't tell you the whole story, but it seems that you're not interested in that, as that is what lies "between the lines". I am not debating them. What I am debating is the logic of that process to begin with. If Kokinis decides to stay in Baltimore, we'll officially be reduced to 0 officially requested candidates for this job and we'll be without the best guy to execute Lerner's plan, which is pretty much get the guy who works best with Mangini in here.
Three of our Top 4 candidates have bowed out. The last remaining guy may as well. That cannot possibly be spun as a good thing given that our head coach is already in place.
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I guess I'm still left scratching my head and wondering just WHO are all these experienced candidates that would actually be acceptable to some folks! Outside of Parcells, Cowher and Shanahan who are they?
Name me a few that sound good that havnt been run out of two or three NFL cities!
The goal was experience in the organization, not necessarily at head coach, although that was Lerner's preference. That's why we were set to go with Pioli before Mangini got canned. If you look at not only experienced coaches but GM candidates as well, suddenly the list expands a great deal.
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3/5
From everything I have read, TJ McCreight has been considered a top candidate in the process as well. It may not make some happy since he is already on staff, but it is what is out there.
And it doesn't mean we won't be looking elsewhere. I posted before 3 candidates I thought were well qualified based on their experience and the fact they run similar defenses to what Ryan/Mangini want to run here (Pitt and Dallas FO).
Dallas: Director of College and Pro Scouting - Tom Ciskowski
Pitt: Kevin Colbert, Director of Football Operations
Doug Whaley, Pro Personnel Coordinator
Other franchises to look at the FO that run similar defenses (so they already know what to look for talent-wise)....
Baltimore (Trying with Kokinis)
NE (failed to get Pioli)
SF (not nearly as successful as the others, but they have some great individual talent on defense that they have found)
SD (no extra info on any of their guys though)
AZ (again no extra info)
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If Pioli held a grudge against Mangini is he really the type of guy Lerner (we) wanted anyway?
And if Lerner hired someone who then brought in the likes of Martz or some other worn out, passed over guy would we be any happier than with Mangini?
I'd have liked to have seen Cowher, then my list dropped to Jim Schwartz beyond that, IMO, I'm either not fond of or fairly apathetic to the rest.
I'll give the Mangini/? team a chance just as you've stated you would...that's about all we can do.
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I've read McCreight is being looked at more as an asset for the college draft than as actual GM material at this point in time, which makes sense in pairing him with Kokinis given that Kokinis has dealt more with the free agency/trade side of things. If we actually name him GM, I'll be very disappointed.
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Actually, there are 5 candidates and only 2 of them have "officially" dropped out. I know, you are gonna post a link that said that another has and someone else has posted a link he hasn't. So, that's up for debate.
The key word in what you are saying is OFFICAL. Just because there hasn't been "official" requests doesn't mean that there aren't others in mind. Some don't even need an "official" request (Reese). You are saying you need to read between the lines. Sorry, but you are GUESSING when you do that. You have no idea what has been said or done, other than the stated facts.
Why would we need an "experienced" GM to conduct the HC search? After all, there isn't ONE GM out there that I would trust their judgement over Accorsi's. You say that you wanted an "experienced" GM and you have been touted Pioli. He's never been a GM, never hired a coach, never had final say on drafts, FA, ANYTHING.
Oh, and you'll be disappointed no matter what happens. You have been complaining from the beginning and "reading between the lines" (translation making up conspiracy theories) all along.
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All Pro
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Exactly !.... I have nothing against Kokinis....However , just the fact that we would Finally acknowledge the need to hire Experienced/Successful individuals who have held and are qualified to fill our openings by hiring Mangini  and than go out and add a Inexperienced GM who has never held that position before bothers me  ....To succeed we need Experience at ALL levels of the organization....
The Mammal
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So you wanted Floyd Reese who is, IIRC, the only one that is an experinced GM.
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Oh, and you'll be disappointed no matter what happens. You have been complaining from the beginning and "reading between the lines" (translation making up conspiracy theories) all along.
It doesn't matter what you think about my opinions. I've known for a long time now that there's absolutely no convincing you of anything and thus, I haven't been trying. I simply want to get a different opinion out there than this blind optimism that's been out there since the return. If you choose not to subscribe to my beliefs, that's fine. Doesn't matter to me either way.
The only way I'll be truly disappointed is if we're treated to another regime of mediocrity. The reason why I get disappointed along the way is because we're heading down a path that could easily take us there again moreso than different paths, at least in my opinion. I'm still willing to hope for greatness from this process but given that we've been to one playoff game in a decade of football, I think my skepticism is a bit warranted.
The key is, if you haven't read into it already, the word opinion. You have yours, I have mine, we're both entitled to them and we're both entitled to express them. I just ask that you show me and others the same respect you'd want shown yourself in a response, which clearly hasn't been the case.
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So, you want someone to respect you stating your opinion as fact? It's funny that you, and a couple others, always fall back to that. You ,and Django have stated your opinions as fact, invented facts by "reading betwen the lines", and you expect people to just say, oh, ok, they aren't dealing with any actual facts even though they are arguing them as facts. Seriuosly, if that is your idea of debating, you might want to get a tutor.  I have treated you like I would expect to be treated. If I invented things and said made groundless accusations and stated my opinion as fact, I would expect to get called on it. Nice fallback position, though. If someone isn't open to groundless conspiracy theories, the are "blindly" optimistic.
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To you, anything that you don't agree with is "invented."
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I really can't think of an available combo that would make me think that we can't miss this time.
There's just no guarantee but I see where youre wanting us to just set ourselves up as best as possible.
I'm still liking Mangini's excitement to be here and will remain optimistic.
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Did you post a link to those things I questioned you on? Nope, you said you "read betwen the lines". That's "invented" my friend. It sure is'nt posting facts.
So, I'll ask again. Please show me a link to the FACT that Mangini "dictated" who the GM was and "named" the GM. You have stated these kinds of statements, and presented them as facts, and that's what I am referring to as "invented". Either you have a link to show it a fact or you invented it and stated it as fact. Which one is it?
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I really can't think of an available combo that would make me think that we can't miss this time.
There's just no guarantee but I see where youre wanting us to just set ourselves up as best as possible.
I'm still liking Mangini's excitement to be here and will remain optimistic.
It's possible, but I did the exact same thing as Savage. I bought into his combating the "woe is me" attitude, I bought into his whole plan. I bought into Romeo as a defensive mastermind who would lead the team with a steady hand. I bought into the "RAC Attack". Why? Because I was blindly optimistic. Never again until we have a winner.
I think my biggest problem is that Randy looked at the failure of the situation last year and said "We didn't have any experience and didn't have a head coach and GM on the same page" so therefore, we bring in a head coach with some experience (because head coach is the biggest priority) and have him get a GM he'll be on the same page with.
How I look at it is that the reason we failed last year is that Randy interviewed and decided upon a coach before his GM (which meant compatibility wasn't guaranteed) and brought in two guys without experience. Thus, my solution to fixing this at the beginning of the off-season would've been to hire the GM before the coach (because to me, a cohesive front office is the biggest priority) so that he can make sure they're on the same page and make sure one of them if not both of them has extensive experience, preferrably the GM at least since he's making the decisions.
Hence my rift with the process so far. Call me traditional, but I build an organization from the top on down.
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If you want a battle over semantics or rhetoric, which you clearly do, I'm done with this. It was my inference, it was my opinion; take it for exactly what it is and nothing more.
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Semantics? You have stated your opinion as fact. Don't blame me when people call you on it. When people refute your opinion with facts, don't play the martyr.
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I think it's time for the whiners to chill..take a IBprofin..
Sorry, but I've just been reading Ms. Cleo and the band of blind speculators. And I'm no doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
And I'd say Xanax are far more in order here.
I would respond to some of thier very speculative ramblings, but in all honesty, with them basing on pure conjecture and speculation, I don't see it being worthy of any further response.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Come on Pit i've been enjoying this... nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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I have tried twice to change the direction of this thread to something more constructive.
*** Reviewing other possible GM candidates in the NFL that might be worth considering.
#gmstrong
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Aw heck, Coach has more than picked up my slack!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Ya but when has reason and facts ever worked... nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
Pit and Coach working together. And I happen to be on the same page with both?
Hell HAS frozen over.
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
You got it Coach!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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If we actually name him GM, I'll be very disappointed.
Not that's funny.. personally, I think we could name the reincarnation of Paul Brown the GM and you would be disappointed 
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
Pit and Coach working together. And I happen to be on the same page with both?
Hell HAS frozen over.
Dogs and Cats living together...
you had a good run Hank.
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Pit and Coach working together. And I happen to be on the same page with both?
Hell HAS frozen over.
Coach and I agree on a lot of "football issues". We're just both so stub......jack as........so uh, determined and strong willed ( yeah, that's the ticket ) that our personalities seem to clash sometimes.
But you agreeing with us?
If hell hasn't froze over, it sure cooled off a lot!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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this in the same year the Arizona Cardinals won a playoff game...
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
You got it Coach!
You'd better play nice Pit or I'll claim rights on that sig I made that you're currently sporting.
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You'd better play nice Pit or I'll claim rights on that sig I made that you're currently sporting.
Won it fair and square and there was no copyright infringement involved!
BTW- Since you're SO upset with this hiring, I'll make you another sig bet?
I'll bet you a sig. that we play at least .500 ball next year?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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You'd better play nice Pit or I'll claim rights on that sig I made that you're currently sporting.
Won it fair and square and there was no copyright infringement involved!
BTW- Since you're SO upset with this hiring, I'll make you another sig bet?
I'll bet you a sig. that we play at least .500 ball next year?
You won the Brady/Thomas sig I made for you, but who said anything about my DA/Romeo witnesses sig? 
And again, I'm not upset with this hiring, I actually think it's possible for a Mangini/Kokinis team to succeed rather well here. I'm upset about Randy's process (or lack thereof).
That being said, there's no way on earth I bet against us next year. With a last place schedule and some top notch talent added in Round 1 and 2, we could easily finish .500 or higher.
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And again, I'm not upset with this hiring, I actually think it's possible for a Mangini/Kokinis team to succeed rather well here.
See, here in lies the problem. There's more than one way to skin a cat. And you seem to indicate that you're not upset and they can do well.
So it seems you're making a mighty big to do about the WAY the cat was skinned more than anything else. Which seems rather trivial imo
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I'm upset about Randy's process (or lack thereof).
So it's not what he did, but how he did it.
Once you decide on the car you are going to buy, why keep looking? If you find what you are looking for, why look more.
It seems in actuality, that if Randy had interviewed more people, yet came to the exact same conclusion, you would have been happier?
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That being said, there's no way on earth I bet against us next year. With a last place schedule and some top notch talent added in Round 1 and 2, we could easily finish .500 or higher.
Then you must feel we're going to do pretty well in rounds 1 and two? Pretty good in the FA market? You must if that's part of the equasion as to why you think we'll be better. So what's your REAL beef?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It seems in actuality, that if Randy had interviewed more people, yet came to the exact same conclusion, you would have been happier?
Absolutely. It's called vetting. Normally in an interview process, you have different rounds of interviews. An introductory layout where you list all the candidates you want to speak to. Then, you speak to them all, narrow the field, and conduct a 2nd round of interviews and so on until you make a final decision. Doing that not only solidifies your opinion of your guy if he ends up being the one, you also discover things other candidates provide that you might want, find new things about your own guy, and gives you a truly broad view of what's available. If Lerner did that, then I would be absolutely convinced he found the right guy this go-round. As is, the process was pretty much over from the moment he sat down with Mangini.
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Then you must feel we're going to do pretty well in rounds 1 and two? Pretty good in the FA market? You must if that's part of the equasion as to why you think we'll be better. So what's your REAL beef?
I'm assuming that we will... if we don't, then we're positively screwed, because no coach is going to be able to fill the holes with what we have on our current roster.
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I think it's time for the whiners to chill..take a IBprofin..
Sorry, but I've just been reading Ms. Cleo and the band of blind speculators. And I'm no doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
And I'd say Xanax are far more in order here.
I would respond to some of thier very speculative ramblings, but in all honesty, with them basing on pure conjecture and speculation, I don't see it being worthy of any further response.
JMHO
This is the most sensible thing I've read on this thread in quite a while and I stayed at a Wyndham last night! Not to knock Holiday Inn Express but really those pillows suck.
It just amazes me those of us who know nothing at all (read everyone here) somehow knows this choice or that choice is going to be good or bad. While it may qualify as opinion, it's hardly a quantifiable opinion of any nature. As noted above, it falls totally and completely into the conjecture category.
If you want to be a "chicken little" personality that's your choice, considering you have no say and you have to accept it as the reality it is, why not just chill out and support whatever happens or who's brought in? It may work or it may not but there's one thing we've not had this last year, hope. I put my money on hope and salute the change.
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Absolutely. It's called vetting. Normally in an interview process, you have different rounds of interviews.
LOL, it's really called a waste of time. Yes, there are different rounds of interviews... based on a comment that Mangini made during his presser the other day,, he and randy spent a ton of time together either in person or on the phone. that takes care of the rounds..
If you find the guy you want and you don't hire him, you risk losing him. it's really that simple.
In this case, by waiting, even if you get the guy you want, you risk him not getting the asst coaches he wants.. they may be gone as well.
So basically,, there is a big hole in your theory.
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About time you showed up. I don't feel good and need a break. So finish this up while I rest a little, ok?
You got it Coach!
You'd better play nice Pit or I'll claim rights on that sig I made that you're currently sporting.
You should go back to the sig with the guy who does those late night furniture commercials.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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