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Quote:
I'm also reading that scouts have gotten fired.....
I hope SOMEONE knows what the hell they are doing come the end of April. 
I haven't seen anything on that, but no big deal. Scouts usually run on draft to drat contracts. At this point, their work is pretty much done.
You don't need 20 pairs of eyes on players at this point...all the reports are filed. Now you can manage with a GM,Coach and 2-3 of the top assistant coaches going to the combine and working to set a board.
To me, the more people you get involved, the better the chance things will get gummed up.
During the season, sure, you need scouts out at various college games and a couple of scouts at the next weeks opponent game...this time of year, you don't really need them for much.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I do believe this has been the strangest hiring process I have ever seen. No leaks, no hint that the deal is done or not done other than the fact that no one else has filled the position.
Browns fans have twisted in the wind longer than Herm Edwards did...  ...mac
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Even if Kokins isn't hired, McCregihton was out anyway.
The scouting is done.....no need to keep him any longer.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Right Peen. The main scouts the regional scouts now have all the info on the draftees and will be assembling everything for the draft as soon as everything is gathered for Koke and Man. Quote:
For now, the jobs of most of the scouts appear safe, because they're needed to get the Browns through the NFL Draft in April.
Didn't T.J. and Koke do basically the same job...Pro personell, so no problem as Koke has all that info. Just not getting paranoid yet..
nordawg
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This kinda surprises me a little.. I was hopeing that because TJ was more into the College Scouting side that he and Koks could work together (Koks being more of a Pro Player guy)
Kinda makes me wonder if there may have been issues like TJ didn't want to stay if Koks was coming in..Who knows.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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All Pro
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Quote:
was hopeing that because TJ was more into the College Scouting side that he and Koks could work together (Koks being more of a Pro Player guy)
Where are you getting that from, Daman? I was under the impresion that TJ and Koks where in nearly identical roles with their respective teams.
Last edited by danglet; 01/24/09 10:22 AM.
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They are........clearly from reading each of their descriptions on the team sites.
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Quote:
They are........clearly from reading each of their descriptions on the team sites.
Looks like this is being set up as follows...
Lerner Owner
Keenan Pres
Kokinis GM (Pro-Heavy)
???? DOPP (Dir of Play Pers)(Scouting Heavy)
Mangini HC
I see no problems yet...Cept we don't have a GM or DOPP...lol...
Go Browns!!!
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I see no problems yet...Cept we don't have a GM or DOPP...
Which will be either one of the regional scouts Koke has worked with or someone he brings in...
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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Isn't a GM in essence a DOPP??? Since we (da browns) have already downsized (methinks both due to economy as well as having too many pot-stirrers) is it outrageous or illogical to think that the set-up you described is now complete???
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j/c
So we send TJ and our scouts down to Mobile for the week to get a good look at all these prospects and then we fire him? Do I have that right? We only send one top-level personnel guy to the Senior Bowl and then when he gets back, we fire him. What kind of operation is this? You guys may be okay with all of this, but something very strange is going on in Berea. JMHO.
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I agree.....I don't think you need all the layers....you can, but it doesn't really matter.
No matter what happens, I am not fearful we will somehow end up scoutless.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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When I pay for my season tickets and my Browns gear, quite frankly, I don't do it because I think "boy, this organization really treats its workers right." Do I wish any ill on the workers? Absolutely not. But, I just want to see a winner. If that means firing all the people in the office as well as scouts, then so be it.
Would I rather the organization treat its people better (with the caveat that we don't really know how people are being treated for the most part)? Yes. But, in the end, I just want a winning team.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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"The consensus perception among the effected is that the Browns are a meteor on fire and about to crash"
Doersuck is an idiot. He's taking a concensus from those who were just fired - all small level internal decisions. And the result is the Browns are going to crash and burn.  irresponsible journalism if I ever saw.
Obviously this is something Keenan has assessed and really has nothing to do with Mangini. He's trying to get the business end under order. This was an internal structure made by Carmen and now being tuned up by Professional Management.
Firings are never pleasant and rarely justifiable to those who have taken the hit.
As for TJ...wasn't sure if it was going to happen or not. Because the position he holds is one of a RIGHT HAND MAN to the GM (Kokinis) - I knew they had a prior relationship but did not know how strong it was or wasn't. GK had another meeting with Randy and I'm sure they signed and the job is his. I'm also pretty sure he stated exactly who he was bringing in with him and what positions he wanted to fill. Those people now have been fired. TJ among a few other scouts. What were their exact scouting duties? I don't know. Obviously Kokinis has an idea who he wants...but especially important for him would be WHO HIS RIGHT HAND MAN IS!
As far as the secret...as mentioned and now I'm almost positive. GK has a long hard road ahead of him requiring 24/7 attention. He just went through and finished a season with the Ravens...we have been through the process for a while now - not he. So he took a long needed vacation to spend time with Wife n kids.
Monday...Wednesday...don't know when the presser will be but its obvious he's on board and actually started some work regarding his Staff.
We are on track for this thing. People who wish to take their Woah IS ME Mantra into this will have any and every opportunity to do so.
Oh NO wait we are doomed.
I heard we decided to use a different TRASH BAG for all our office recepticals...
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Where are you getting that from, Daman? I was under the impresion that TJ and Koks where in nearly identical roles with their respective teams.
Damn, you are right, I did read that wrong.. My mistake....OK,, Goodbye TJ 
Seriosly Danglet,, thanks for schooling me.. I made a boo boo on that one.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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just 1 ????  nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
#gmstrong
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It's early in the day. Give him time
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Isn't a GM in essence a DOPP??? Since we (da browns) have already downsized (methinks both due to economy as well as having too many pot-stirrers) is it outrageous or illogical to think that the set-up you described is now complete???
It may very well be and end with Koke...
I don't think it will end with Koke tho...One more...
Go Browns!!!
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I didn't read the details of the article. Did we fire TJ because we didn't want him or did we "fire" him because he didn'twant to stay if he didn't get the GM job? Do we really know?
I was under the impression that Kokinis was a huge pro player person whereas TJ was a big college guy. If that was the cse they would have made a good pairing if they could work together. Apparantly they couldn't. Seems strange because it sounds like they had worked together before and got along. Then again you never know what to believe from media reports.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Yeah, now that story is changing to just McCreight.
Wonder if McCreight was the "leak" from the front office? It seemed like everything that should be in house was leaving house and into the hands of the media.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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To be fair to Kokinis, maybe it was Mangini who didn't feel like he could work well with McCreight.
Good question 017. Unfortunately we will nevver know the truth.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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I just want a winner too man. Just seems a little weird that the guy was our #1 down at the Senior Bowl all week gathering all our info about the upcoming prospects and now he's no longer with us. So that begs the question... Is his intelligence reliable, having been obtained with the idea that he may not have a job when he got back? And, if he goes to another organization, can we trust him not to stab us in the back by giving his new team the same intelligence he gave us? Just seems a bit shady. I'm not going 'woe-is-me' or 'doom and gloom' on this. Just doesn't seem like good business on our end. But whatever, this is a bad time for all businesses I suppose.
Follow me on Twitter <a href="link" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/CoachA12</a>
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Quote:
I didn't read the details of the article. Did we fire TJ because we didn't want him or did we "fire" him because he didn'twant to stay if he didn't get the GM job? Do we really know?
I was under the impression that Kokinis was a huge pro player person whereas TJ was a big college guy. If that was the cse they would have made a good pairing if they could work together. Apparantly they couldn't. Seems strange because it sounds like they had worked together before and got along. Then again you never know what to believe from media reports.
I have zero idea...But I do have an idea...lol...
Possibly Koke brings one from Baltimore with him???
Eric DeCosta Director of College Scouting
Joe Hortiz National Scout
Hell...Who knows...
Go Browns!!!
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Legend
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Quote:
Yeah, now that story is changing to just McCreight.
Wonder if McCreight was the "leak" from the front office? It seemed like everything that should be in house was leaving house and into the hands of the media.
I don't know anything about leaks though I have read a few people around here talk about it.
All front offices have some leaks and I can't remember anything I would call critical in nature being let out of the bag.
I think this process with Lerner is the only way to keep things leak free...keep everybody in the dark. I am sure the only people privy to the happening of the last few weeks were Lerner, Keegan, and maybe 1-2 others included in the inner group. That is the only way to keep a lid on things.
Bottom line is reporters get their stuff mostly from low level people, though i do think Savage himself may have been one of the ones talking a bit too much....he seemed to like that.
Asst this and asst. that, they like reporters calling them asking a few questions off the cuff....makes them feel important....just human nature.
Just a good lesson in life. If you want to keep a lid on things, limit the people who know. There is less chance it gets out because people know there are fewer trails to follow if the big dog wants to track it down..
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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"Fired" according to Schudel... And Harris Director of Player Personnel??? By Jeff Schudel JSchudel@News-Herald.comT.J. McCreight spent the last five days in Mobile, Ala., coordinating the scouting of the Senior Bowl workouts for the Browns and on Friday they fired him. McCreight was the Browns director of player personnel. He was with the Browns for four years after eight seasons with the Ravens. He was former general manager Phil Savage's top aide. Savage was fired on Dec. 27. Meanwhile, today could be the day George Kokinis is named general manager. An announcement on Kokinis was expected Friday, but it didn't happen. "We never said anything was imminent," a Browns official said. "That's the media speculating." With McCreight gone, it is likely James Harris will be hired as director of player personnel. Harris, former vice president of personnel for the Jaguars, was one of five candidates team owner Randy Lerner interviewed for the general manager job. Firing McCreight comes as a bit of a surprise because he also was interviewed for the general manager job.
Go Browns!!!
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Whatever... wake me up for the draft.
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Nor and GM..... Ha ha Ha.... I expect to see both of you at Improv this weekend..... Enjoy your waitress and tip your beer...
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
I just want a winner too man. Just seems a little weird that the guy was our #1 down at the Senior Bowl all week gathering all our info about the upcoming prospects and now he's no longer with us. So that begs the question... Is his intelligence reliable, having been obtained with the idea that he may not have a job when he got back? And, if he goes to another organization, can we trust him not to stab us in the back by giving his new team the same intelligence he gave us? Just seems a bit shady. I'm not going 'woe-is-me' or 'doom and gloom' on this. Just doesn't seem like good business on our end. But whatever, this is a bad time for all businesses I suppose.
That was a BS way to treat someone, to say the least.
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j/c
I think the main thing is everyone (me?) is just wanting to see this whole thing come together. To me things are being done kinda strangely, I will reserve my judgement until the final product is revealed. I can't really blame some for being a little skeptical though.
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Doesn't clarify anything. Was he fired because the Browns wanted him out of the organization or did we "fire " him because he wanted out?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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it is likely James Harris will be hired as director of player personnel.
gotta like that move!! It adds some experience to the front office. It is coming together slowly but if Harris is on board as well, this is an upgrade. Kokonis would have to sign off on this though, so maybe a meeting took place this past week.
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Phil did like to talk about stuff..... and defer anything negative away from him and right to RAC.
But there was stuff being leaked before AND after he left. Like the fight between Brady and Shaun Smith, the rumblings about who is interviewing, the fact Lerner loved Mangini, the Kokinis story, etc.
Of course, like you mentioned, all clubs will have some leaks. It just seemed like everyone knew our business just a little bit more than others.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Browns Move On Without McCreight By TheOBR.com Posted Jan 23, 2009 The OBR's Lane Adkins reports this evening that TJ McCreight has left the organization. Here's what's happening next, and how it has impacted the team's efforts. The OBR has learned this evening that Browns Director of Pro Personnel T.J. McCreight has left the organization. According to a source close to the situation, McCreight will be replaced by a new individual brought in by as-yet-unannounced Browns General Manager George Kokinis. It is not known if this individual will be ex-Jacksonville front office leader James Harris, although Harris has had an ongoing dialogue with members of the Browns organization over the past week. Earlier this week, Lane Adkins told subscribers in the OBR’s exclusive Insider Blog that there had been some turbulence in the negotiations for Kokinis’ arrival in Cleveland. Some of these differences may have centered around McCreight’s role in the organization, as Browns owner Randy Lerner was known to advocate McCreight’s remaining with the franchise. McCreight’s exit will impact the team’s free agency and draft planning in the short term, as the front office executive has been leading the Browns’ off-season scouting efforts. The OBR’s source also indicates this is the first move by the 'new' regime which is focused on a new 'team' environment and structure. As for the outgoing executive, league sources tell the OBR that it’s unlikely that he will have a difficult time finding new employment. At least two teams have reportedly contacted McCreight about front office positions following the termination of Browns GM Phil Savage at the end of the season. http://cle.scout.com/2/833047.html Just found this. Suggests that he might have left of his own accord. Maybe I am reading into it though.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/24/browns-checking-cell-phone-records/BROWNS CHECKING CELL PHONE RECORDS? Posted by Mike Florio on January 24, 2009, 10:35 a.m. EST Though we don’t know whether it played a role in the decision to terminate the employment of director of player personnel T.J. McCreight, we’re hearing rumors and rumblings of a recent effort by the Browns to check cell phone records of employees, presumably in order to identify the source(s) of leaks. Leaks have been a problem for a while in Cleveland, as evidenced by the fact that the media seemed to be constantly aware of every twist and turn in the team’s search for a new head coach and G.M. Meanwhile, the Chiefs have kept one of the tightest lids we’ve ever seen on their search for a new G.M., their decision whether to keep coach Herm Edwards, and their search for his replacement. So regardless of whether McCreight’s departure resulted from this interest in finding and plugging leaks, there’s a chance that other employees will be targeted by such efforts as well.
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Reggie Rucker commented a month or so back that the whole oganization "Stunk"...He may have been right.
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I seen this on another site earlier today....007
nordawg
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#gmstrong
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Quote:
Earlier this week, Lane Adkins told subscribers in the OBR’s exclusive Insider Blog that there had been some turbulence in the negotiations for Kokinis’ arrival in Cleveland. Some of these differences may have centered around McCreight’s role in the organization, as Browns owner Randy Lerner was known to advocate McCreight’s remaining with the franchise.
Funny thing is, he worked with Koks in Baltimore.. Does anyone get the feeling that maybe Savage and the guys he took with him weren't exactly that well thought of in Baltimore... I mean, if they were, wouldn't it stand to reason that there would be a chance that TJ and Koks would work it out?
Maybe it's just me, But I smell something fishy.....
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Just found this. Suggests that he might have left of his own accord. Maybe I am reading into it though.
Dunno,, but either way, he's gone..
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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Damanshot
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Quote:
Phil did like to talk about stuff..... and defer anything negative away from him and right to RAC.
But there was stuff being leaked before AND after he left. Like the fight between Brady and Shaun Smith, the rumblings about who is interviewing, the fact Lerner loved Mangini, the Kokinis story, etc.
Of course, like you mentioned, all clubs will have some leaks. It just seemed like everyone knew our business just a little bit more than others.
I would bet the fight was a leak from one of the players....not someone in the FO.
Players is probably a writers best source. Some Jr. asst. talking to reporters raises eyebrows...a player is a different story. Writers can cover them by printing some legit quote about the game.
Twenty minutes of conversation usually yields more than "we didn't execute".
Players is where 90% of this stuff comes.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The fight? Yes.
But I don't think the players know who Randy does and doesn't like, and who he is planning on hiring or interviewing.
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Though we don’t know whether it played a role in the decision to terminate the employment of director of player personnel T.J. McCreight, we’re hearing rumors and rumblings of a recent effort by the Browns to check cell phone records of employees, presumably in order to identify the source(s) of leaks.
Leaks have been a problem for a while in Cleveland, as evidenced by the fact that the media seemed to be constantly aware of every twist and turn in the team’s search for a new head coach and G.M.
I always wonder who lets those things out...
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum George Kokinis
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