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Sounds great Ammo if you believe LB is all we need to "fix it all". But I kind of doubt Mangini would see it that way and I happen to agree with him.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Quote:
Tab and Damon........
DQJ was in his third year. Just "playing the game" for three years teaches you something. And his speed helps too.
I'm not saying "nobody progressed". But overall, I think there's a lot of "underdeveloped talent" on our team. To some extent, a natural progression takes place based on experience alone. IMO, that's a given.
But technique in tackling, playing out of position, and a general lack of cohesiveness among certain units IMO lays squarely at the feet of the coaching staff. The "basics" alone would make many of these players far more productive than we've seen.
JMHO
One might call those guys, "busts." 
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The way I see it...
FA LB
Round 1 LB
Round 2 LB
That isn't the way to go..get a stud FA LB prevents being handcuffed in the draft..it means your first pick doesn't have to fill that hole.
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good thing we get to see Karlos Dansby for another week of scouting...
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Some of us have been "scouting him" for a while now.  Me likes!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just an observation, were any of the Steeler or Raven linebackers acquired via FAgency ?? Outside of Harrison being an UDFA who has never played anywhere else.
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Quote:
Sounds great Ammo if you believe LB is all we need to "fix it all". But I kind of doubt Mangini would see it that way and I happen to agree with him.
JMHO
I know that.
BUT...LB's are the core of a 3-4...and it's a position we've largely ignored or missed on.
We need to build depth on the LB core. The Steelers don't rely simply on Harrison and Woodley...Timmons rotates right in with them. Keeps them fresh.
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I think that has as much to do with scheme as it does talent. Not disagreeing on the Browns talent level though. Just more in tune to draft building than dragging the can in from the curb.
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Quote:
I'm not saying "nobody progressed". But overall, I think there's a lot of "underdeveloped talent" on our team.
I agree with that.. 100%.. I still think that Wimbley, Hall, DQ can have better performance than we've seen.. (hall if for no other reason than he's young and still learning)
I see that we can improve greatly at the CB spot as well.. with the same guys I might add. (some freakin depth might be nice however)
I just thought that more than just Cribbs and DQ improved... that's the point I was trying to make.
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Cleveland Browns could hire defensive, offensive coordinators as soon as today Tuesday, January 13, 2009 Mary Kay CabotPlain Dealer Reporter The Browns could announce the hiring of defensive coordinator Rob Ryan and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll as early as today, a source close to the situation said Monday. Ryan, the former defensive coordinator of the Oakland Raiders, and Daboll, former quarterbacks coach for the New York Jets, already have been in Cleveland with new coach Eric Mangini doing some preliminary work in their new roles, a source said. Daboll may have returned to New York, but Ryan is still here digging into the defense. Ryan is the son of Buddy Ryan, architect of the famed Chicago Bears defense on the 1985 Super Bowl champions, and the twin brother of Ravens defensive coordinator Rex Ryan. Rex Ryan is a candidate for the Jets' head coaching position, and there had been reports Rob might join him if Rex gets the job. Rob, however, is believed to be committed to Mangini, a source said. Rob Ryan has 21 years of coaching experience at the college and NFL levels, including five years as Oakland's coordinator and four seasons as New England's linebackers coach from 2000-03, where he worked with Mangini and won two Super Bowls. In 2003, the Patriots defense ranked first in the NFL with 238 points allowed. Daboll, who has spent nine seasons in the NFL, also coached with Mangini and Ryan in New England. He was there from 2000-06 and has three Super Bowl rings. http://www.cleveland.com/browns/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1231839087183500.xml&coll=2
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I'll watch the Cardinal LB's..but that doesn't mean they fit our scheme...Dansby plays the weakside..I still want Channing Crowder because he is a 34 linebacker.
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/13/09 02:34 PM.
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Rex Ryan is a candidate for the Jets' head coaching position, and there had been reports Rob might join him if Rex gets the job
That is something that I never even thought about. However I have a feeling Rex isn't going to NY. Just a hunch.
BTW I thought word was the Cards were going to tag Dansby? I'm hoping they don't tho. 
Last edited by jb52; 01/13/09 04:03 PM.
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j/c Didn't see this yet...Former Patriots assistant expected to be named Browns special teams coach by Tony Grossi Tuesday January 13, 2009, 1:49 PM CLEVELAND -- The next Browns assistant coach may come from the New England Patriots. A source with knowledge said today that new Browns coach Eric Mangini is expected to name Brad Seely as his special teams coordinator. Seely just completed his 10th season as New England's special teams coach. He also has coached special teams with Carolina, the New York Jets and Indianapolis in his 20-year NFL career. Mangini has selected Brian Daboll (formerly of the Jets) as offensive coordinator and Rob Ryan (Oakland) as defensive coordinator. The Browns are expected to formally announce the coordinators soon, at which time Seely's hiring may be included. link I guess that means Daisher is gone baby gone. Keep on pluckin' that tree Eric. Anyway, in regards to Rex Ryan and the Jets, I've heard that it's down to him or Steve Spagnuolo. If that's true, I would give the nod to Rex because the Jets run a 3-4 and that is obviously his bread and butter. Spags runs a 4-3. I would think whoever they choose as a DC would run their desired scheme. So I like Rex's chances of kissing the AFC North goodbye. And maybe T Suggs and Bart Scott would want to come play for his brother.
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Man, it has to suck to be a Pats fan and have your coaches take other jobs almost every year. Even if they don't leave it seems they always have FO personel or coaches as candidates to take other jobs.
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I don't think it would suck. They still win year in and year out with whomever they put out there.
Thought this year they would be terrible without Brady and they still went 11-5
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Yeah, it must really suck to win at least 10 games every year REGARDLESS of who their coaches are. 
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Quote:
Man, it has to suck to be a Pats fan and have your coaches take other jobs almost every year
Yet, they never seem to miss a beat do they.. They did well after RAC and Wies left, continued to do well after Mangini left also.
This was my point about taking anyone directly from the NE Tree. I didn't mind Mangini so much because he struck out on his own with the Jets and did a decent job.
After they prove themselves once they leave NE and Belichick, I got no problem with them...
Belichick is the leader of the band up there.. and I don't think many of these guys make any decisions without his OK.. That's why I had a problem with Pioli.
#GMSTRONG
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I was thinking when we have a coach that we like in place we would not want to see that coach leave. Has more to do with liking said coach than the record after they leave. 
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j/c www.KFFL.com49ers | Scherer interviews for QB coaching job Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:32:20 -0800 Matt Maiocco, of The Santa Rosa Press Democrat, reports the San Francisco 49ers interviewed Cleveland Browns assistant head coach/quarterbacks coach Rip Scherer for their vacant quarterbacks coaching position.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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Good,...glad to see that frog do a lilly pad hop.
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Quote:
Tab and Damon........
DQJ was in his third year. Just "playing the game" for three years teaches you something. And his speed helps too.
I'm not saying "nobody progressed". But overall, I think there's a lot of "underdeveloped talent" on our team. To some extent, a natural progression takes place based on experience alone. IMO, that's a given.
But technique in tackling, playing out of position, and a general lack of cohesiveness among certain units IMO lays squarely at the feet of the coaching staff. The "basics" alone would make many of these players far more productive than we've seen.
JMHO
Good reason used here Pitt. I have to say though, my view is more along the lines of lack of talent, then it is coaching.
Look I know the vast majority of fans believe that our biggest problem was RAC, he is gone will be better. But the truth is RAC had more experience then most coaches on the defensive side of the ball. He had multiple rings to prove he wasn't a slouch. I don't believe for a moment it was coaching.
What I do believe is that good players show up, no matter what they show up. I can't say outside of Rogers that anyone on the defense showed up. That would at least indicate to me that there was untapped potential.
Last point here on RAC as a coach. We all remember that after the SB last season that RAC was credited with coming up with the defense the Giants used to shut down the Pats.
You do as you say Pitt, focus on the coaching, I'll continue to focus on the players, my bet is thats where the problem lies. Until we begin to infuse this team with better talent will continue to suffer no matter the coach.
JMHO
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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Good reason used here Pitt. I have to say though, my view is more along the lines of lack of talent, then it is coaching
In the end you may turn out to be right about that. Only time will tell. If the new regime comes in, makes wholesale changes by getting rid of folks that fans thought were good and then the team begins to win, you will have been proven right... (well, I believe you would have anyway)
If they come in and make no significant changes,, a tweak here or there, and have a good, productive draft and start to win,, I guess the folks (like me) will more than likely be considered to have been right. (as if it matters if we are winning  )
It's rather funny that you say what your saying. In todays Plain Dealer, Grossi analyizes the players...
Here's his take... (yeah, it's grossi so don't shoot the messenger)
Quote:
How they rank: Tony Grossi rates the 2008 Browns from 1 to 49
by Tony Grossi/Plain Dealer Reporter Tuesday January 13, 2009, 11:41 PM
Chuck Crow/The Plain Dealer
Josh Cribbs' contributions once again make him one of the Browns' most vital players. But is it time for the team to consider him in a new role?These rankings are unscientific and reflect my opinion of the players who had the best season in 2008. They are not based on potential, athletic ability or draft status, but on actual production versus opportunity and role, with some consideration given to past performance and to intangibles. (Note: Players who were active for two or fewer games are not ranked.)
1. NT Shaun Rogers: Better than advertised. Shame his outstanding effort didn't have a domino effect.
2. KR-WR Josh Cribbs: He might have more impact as a third-down back or safety.
3. PK Phil Dawson: Had overall finest kicking year in Browns history.
4. LS Ryan Pontbriand: One of the top five snappers in the NFL.
5. LT Joe Thomas: Tougher opponents resulted in more sacks allowed.
6. RB Jamal Lewis: A bad year for him is 1,002 yards, 3.6 average and 4 TDs.
7. ILB D'Qwell Jackson: 191 tackles, 3 interceptions, 2 sacks and 5 pass breakups.
8. LG Eric Steinbach: A heady, reliable blocker when healthy; missed two games with injuries.
9. RB Jerome Harrison: Averaged 8 yards every time he touched the ball.
10. P Dave Zastudil: Top 10 in NFL in gross and net average.
11. CB Brandon McDonald: Stayed even keel during roller-coaster season.
12. OLB Kamerion Wimbley: An enigma who doesn't seem to have the best football instincts.
13. OLB Willie McGinest: Tried his hardest to save Romeo Crennel's job.
14. S Sean Jones: Lots of missed tackles after early knee injury.
15. WR Braylon Edwards: Needs a check-up from the neck up.
16. S Brodney Pool: Not a consistent tackler. Might be best in a specific role.
17. LB Andra Davis: A solid professional who gave everything he had.
18. TE Kellen Winslow: Not to be confused with Kellen Winslow Sr.
19. TE Steve Heiden: One of the most selfless players on the team.
20. (tie) QB Derek Anderson: Will always be hot and cold and struggle with accuracy.
QB Brady Quinn: Should've received playing time as early as third game.
22. C Hank Fraley: A heady player often physically overmatched.
23. CB Eric Wright: Call him "the stripper." Emulates Deion Sanders as a tackler.
24. LB Alex Hall: Flashed some rush potential. Should grow stronger in the off-season program.
25. FB Lawrence Vickers: Can be awesome as a lead blocker.
26. DE Corey Williams: Never took to the 3-4 and played with one wounded shoulder.
27. S Mike Adams: Scrappy nickel back and special teamer.
28. RB Jason Wright: Useful in a variety of roles.
29. OG Rex Hadnot: Not the road grader as advertised.
30. S Nick Sorensen: Solid special teamer who got too much time at safety.
31. OT Kevin Shaffer: Guess you can say he answers the bell all the time.
32. TE Darnell Dinkins: Always a place on a team for him.
33. OG Seth McKinney: Versatile backup interior offensive lineman.
34. CB Terry Cousin: Great interview, but his tires are bald.
35. DE Louis Leonard: Doesn't embarrass himself in a backup role.
36. LB Leon Williams: Doesn't seem to have the passion or instincts for the game.
37. FB Charles Ali: Old-fashioned run blocker who shouldn't be asked to do too much.
38. OG Isaac Sowells: Deserves more of look at right tackle.
39. WR Syndric Steptoe: Five starts, 16 games: 19 catches.
40: DE Santonio Thomas: Bring him to camp and let's see more.
41. LB Kris Griffin: Injuries cost this special teamer six games and a look on defense.
42. NT Ahtyba Rubin: Needs to get stronger at the point of attack.
43. DE Shaun Smith: May have a future as a crossover MMA star.
44. TE Martin Rucker: Deserved more playing time the last six games.
45. QB Ken Dorsey: Should follow Rob Chudzinski as a QB coach.
46. WR Donte Stallworth: Biggest impact was in stepping on Braylon's foot in camp.
47. LB Shantee Orr: Doesn't look particularly fast, instinctive or strong.
48. CB Gerard Lawson: Active as a gunner on special teams.
49. CB Travis Daniels: Can always claim he started one game (and played one play) for the Browns.
Players who finished the season on injured reserve:
LB Beau Bell: One forced fumble on a kickoff was his lone highlight.
LB Antwan Peek: Seems a long time ago he was considered a key player.
DE Robaire Smith: The most valuable player lost to injury.
OL Ryan Tucker: Offense clicked on all cylinders in his only game.
He makes some good points... he's loses me on others...
Basically, he does cover some of the good points of this team and it's players..
I look at guys like Quinn, Harrison, Edwards (after someone hits the reset button on his brain), JJ maybe, Cribbs, Thomas, Stieny, Fraley and maybe Tucker (huge maybe) and I think,, one or two more pieces and we may have a winner on that side of the ball.
On defense, I get the feeling, unlike Grossi, that Wimbley has skills that were underused or maybe the term is missed used. Rogers was a winner and I think Williams will be fine with more time. Robaire Smith should make a difference when he returns. Pool and Jones were OK, but not knockouts and our starting CB's are just young.
So while I think the Defense should be (on paper) behind the Offense, I think it's all fixible in the next two off seasons.
I don't think it's all the players... I move more towards some coaching issues.
Edit: Whoops, I forgot the link:
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/how_they_rank_tony_grossi_rate.html
Last edited by Damanshot; 01/14/09 09:52 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
46. WR Donte Stallworth: Biggest impact was in stepping on Braylon's foot in camp.
That would be funny if it wasn't so painfully true. 
yebat' Putin
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Quote:
What I do believe is that good players show up, no matter what they show up. I can't say outside of Rogers that anyone on the defense showed up. That would at least indicate to me that there was untapped potential.
Last point here on RAC as a coach. We all remember that after the SB last season that RAC was credited with coming up with the defense the Giants used to shut down the Pats.
You do as you say Pitt, focus on the coaching, I'll continue to focus on the players, my bet is thats where the problem lies. Until we begin to infuse this team with better talent will continue to suffer no matter the coach.
I don't blame it on "coaching alone". IMO- Some of the D players really don't fit the system he wanted to run. So I don't think it solely rests on coaching OR lack of talent. People can be VERY talented, yet their talent doesn't mesh within certain schemes.
But a combination of these things. IMO- a good coach can adjust his scheme to get the most out of his players. That wasn't done. The right players weren't brought in to run "his scheme". That's on Phil.
And IMO, many of our players simply "didn't show up" on game day. That's on RAC. So I think it's a combination of things that was created by both.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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31. OT Kevin Shaffer: Guess you can say he answers the bell all the time.
Not sure what that means, but I'm assuming its bad.
And if its not it should be 
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6. RB Jamal Lewis: A bad year for him is 1,002 yards, 3.6 average and 4 TDs.
This either means that Grossi is an idiot for ranking him so high (because with those stats, that is a bad year for anyone who is supposedly legitimate) or we were even worse than I thought because a year like that can somehow rank 6th on our list of top performances... I'm not sure which.
We're... we're good?
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While this list is interesting, IMO it is crap. Nothing but one guy's opinion. I bet anyone on this board could come up with this nonsense. Sure he rates some guys seeminly correct, but the whole thing reeks of personal feelings and lacks no real reason for their ranking except some lame comment.
One I have a problem with is Pool. I don't understand his take at all. Saying McDonald was even keeled? The guy was up and down all season, heck up and down during the span of a game. I also didn't think Wright was a bad tackler, especially to be compared to Deion. Andra Davis solid? GMAFB
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The Cleveland Browns hired Brian Daboll as offensive coordinator, Rob Ryan as defensive coordinator and Brad Seely as assistant head coach/special teams coordinator on Wednesday....posted on the NFL.com.....I see we are in fact trying to copycat New England.....if it works, then RL is a hero...if not...then I wonder if he will try it again.........
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Mangini names coordinators Zac Jackson, Staff Writer 01.14.2009 Browns Head Coach Eric Mangini has named his three coordinators. On Wednesday night, the team announced the hirings of offensive coordinator Brian Daboll, defensive coordinator Rob Ryan and Brad Seely as assistant head coach/special teams coordinator. All three worked with Mangini on the Patriots' staff from 2000-2003 before Ryan departed to become Oakland's defensive coordinator. In those four seasons in New England, Mangini led the defensive backs, Daboll was a defensive assistant and then wide receivers coach, Ryan guided the linebackers and Seely coached the special teams unit. Mangini was with the Patriots until becoming the Jets head coach in 2006, and he brought Daboll to New York in 2007. Seely comes to the Browns after 10 successful years in New England. "I am extremely pleased to bring three quality people in Brian, Rob and Brad to our coaching staff and to the Cleveland Browns organization," said Mangini. "I know firsthand that all three are very experienced, talented and dedicated coaches who share the same team-first vision and are passionate towards our goal of bringing an NFL championship to Cleveland." Daboll joins the Browns with 11 years of coaching experience, including nine years in the NFL. A native of Welland, Ontario, Daboll spent the last two seasons with the New York Jets as quarterbacks coach alongside Mangini. In the 2008 season, Daboll played a major role in acclimating future Hall of Fame quarterback Brett Favre to the Jets' offense Favre ranked fifth in the NFL in completion percentage (65.7%), sixth in completions (343), ninth in touchdowns (22) and 11th in passing yards (3,472). "I could not be more excited to have the opportunity to work for the Cleveland Browns, one of the most storied franchises in the history of the NFL," said Daboll. "Growing up a short drive away, I know how devoted and dedicated Browns fans are. I plan to use the experience I have garnered in my coaching career, on both offense and defense, to craft a tough, smart, hardworking unit." Ryan brings to the Browns 22 years of coaching experience, including 11 years in the NFL. His defenses in Oakland, where he spent the last five seasons, were aggressive and successful. Derrick Burgess consistently ranked among the league's leading sackers, and the Raiders finished in the top ten in pass defense in each of the last three seasons. In 2007, Ryan coordinated a Raiders defense that produced two players who ranked in the top-10 in the AFC in sacks as defensive end Derrick Burgess and linebacker Chris Clemons each recorded eight sacks. That season, Ryan's defense ranked third in the NFL in percentage of passes intercepted (4.1%), eighth in the NFL in pass defense (195.8 yards per game), fifth in the AFC in opponent's third down efficiency (39%) and sixth in the AFC in opponent's red zone touchdown percentage (50.9%). "It's great to be part of the Browns organization and to be reunited with Eric Mangini," said Ryan. "Brian, Brad and myself have accomplished a lot of good things with Eric in the past and I look forward to continuing that in Cleveland. Having been around the game of football my entire life, I have always admired the history and passion associated with this franchise. I am excited to be a part of it and to work with a defense that has a good mix of young players and veterans." The Browns have a talented and experienced special teams corps, and in Seely they've added a very experienced special teams coordinator to oversee them. "Eric and I have forged a relationship over the last ten years and I look forward to continuing that with the Browns," said Seely. "The Browns are very special. Having been in the NFL for many years, I am very aware of how important the team is to the city of Cleveland and its place in the NFL." Seely brings to the Browns 20 years of NFL coaching experience. He spent the last ten seasons as the Patriots' special teams coach and, like Daboll and Mangini, celebrated three Super Bowl championships as a member of the Patriots staff. Seely's Patriots teams excelled in the kicking game - they won two Super Bowls on Adam Vinatieri field goals - and also in the return game, where a variety of different return men brought big-play ability and changed games with touchdown returns. Patriots third-year kicker Stephen Gostkowski is going to the Pro Bowl next month after leading the NFL with a career-best 148 points and 36 field goals. Gostkowski also tied for sixth in the league with 17 touchbacks. The 2008 Patriots also featured kick returner Ellis Hobbs, who ranked second in the NFL with a 28.5 kickoff return average and returned a kickoff 95 yards for a touchdown. http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=9371
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Damon it is difficult to look at this roster and not come away with a sinking feeling.
We I believe have serious roster issues then you compound that with the cap issue, and you begin to understand some of the reasons why we had the failures we did this season.
I pretty much dismiss most if not all of what TG has to say. However, I think he did us all a service by getting us to look at the roster. It’s impossible IMHO to look at the roster and not realize how starved for talent we truly are in some very key areas.
I don’t want to leave the impression that we have nothing at all for talent but we aren’t ever going to compete for a championship with this roster.
I do think that the new regime should be able to do a decent enough job next season to win games, but that will have more to do with a weak schedule then it will have to do with an improved coaching philosophy.
Most of the players on the current roster are bound to stick we just won’t be able to address all the areas where we have issues.
They are:
LBers- Multiple players
O Line- Multiple players
D Line- 1 player
WR- 1 player
RB- 1 player
Then you realize that our depth is atrocious, and the light begins to shine on just what the coaching staff had to work with this past season against an absolutely brutal schedule.
I honestly believe for whatever it’s worth that we have made progress in improving the overall talent of the team, but we have a long long way to go before we become truly a great team, I sure as hell hope like a SOB that I live long enough to see this team win just one SB before I die. (Tear in eye)
I think if I were in charge I would make some bold moves to improve the team for the long haul. I would trade away some of our strengths to garner draft picks, and do what we should have been doing all along. Only sign players thru FA that you know will help the team win, and build the team thru the draft. Our needs are so great that we just can’t sign enough guys thru FA to make enough of a difference to make it worth the effort and cost to do it.
This roster needs to be built with depth and solid players from top to bottom, and you just can’t build that type of team thru FA and hope to win into the future. Savage really let us down in that respect. The roster outside the starters is awful, and you cannot win consistently without young talent on the bench.
We as of this moment are nearly totally devoid of young talent waiting in the wings. That issue will continue to be this team’s downfall. I could write a book on what I think needs doing, and it is bound to be rather ugly around here at least to start with.
BTTB
BTTB
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Quote:
Damon it is difficult to look at this roster and not come away with a sinking feeling.
I don't get a sinking feeling.. I'm not exacly jumping for joy but I'm not sinking either.
There is talent there, some has shown it, others I think have it but weren't allowed to display it and I do believe there are guys on this team that if used in a different way, would be more productive (of course, I'm thinking of Wimbley with that last comment)
So I don't see doom and gloom... I see that the new staff has thier work cut out for them to get the most out of what we have until he can get what we need. That's a tough task.. but I think its doable.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Understand Daman, that I believe that one thing is always true. Good players always show up, no matter what they show up. Sorry but if you think that a change at the top is going to make Wimbley a better player, I think your wrong. Will see, I hope your right, but reflecting on KW’s 1st 3 seasons here he did play well his 1st season from a sack standpoint, but once teams got a good look at him he has become a non factor. A one trick pony, so to speak. At this juncture there is and has been nothing standing in the way to keep KW from being a good player, just his lack of ability.
I would tend to agree that the play calling this season was terrible, what the hell happened to Chud? Where the hell was the play action pass? Has Chud ever heard of it?
Again though good players always show up…
If you can look at this roster and point me at the young talent that is in waiting or point out what could have been done to make them better then have had it. I look at our bench players and our starters and yeah I get a sinking feeling, because while I firmly believe will do better next season because of schedule we are never going to win a championship with this roster.
I would flip this team to a degree. Keep those that are contributors, and that will help us towards our goals in the future, and cut loose from those that are likely to be at the end of their careers or have diminished skills by the time the team is ready to make a serious run. At this time with this roster we will never do more then have a winning record (AT BEST) in season then fall on our collective faces should we reach the PO.
A change in direction from a personnel stand point is in order, the sooner the better, I say.
JMHO
BTTB
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Quote:
Understand Daman, that I believe that one thing is always true. Good players always show up, no matter what they show up
True enough if given the opportunity.. Let's take Harrison for example.. He has a 7.2 yards per rush average.. yet he only received 34 opportunities. Now I'm not saying that if he got 200 opportunities he'd maintain that lofty average. But I suspect it still would have been better than what we got from Lewis (3.6).
He also caught 12 balls for 116 yards and 1 TD... 9.7 yards average! I don't know how many times he was thrown to however...
Point being, that's not Harrison,, that's coaching and playcalling isn't it.. he needed more touches.
So yeah, great players show up,, but do they get an opportunity to show what they can do.... not always.
As for wimbley,, my feelings on him are strictly based on his athletic ability. He's an athlete and it appears we haven't found a way to use him.. The new regime will either have to figure that out, or its bye bye Kam.
We'll see
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Is the Harrison situation on coaching? Remember how many times RAC and/or Churd would say they wanted to get Harrison more involved? Then he wouldn't be in the game and everyone was screaming that RAC was an idiot.....but remember, Savage sat in on the coaches meetings and was handcuffing the staff on who to play for the vast majority of the time. So, was it the coaching, or was it much like Ryan in Oakland where they did what they could under the restrictions placed on them?
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Then the question from me is..who wanted Harrison?
I know only of a few picks where Opie mentioned a scout wanted this player or that player...
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I agree Daman, JH was under used to a degree, at one point I think the coaching staff was committed to getting him more touches but then he had an injury and didn’t play for a few games. Then he got lost in the shuffle, so too speak. But after Harrison there aren’t to my knowledge talented players languishing on the bench. That just isn’t the case IMHO.
BTTB
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"his first year there he was a total control freak... and ran a tough tough camp."
Trust me - It was the Tough, Tough camp. If the term was ever used "control freak" it was for a lack of a term for an IRON CLAD Training Camp Mad man...lol  Meaning to them...it was his way or the HIGHWAY. That is not the term Control Freak that I think of at least not in a negative way regarding the NFL. To me a Control Freak is one that will Micro Manage all details and won't let his assistants delegate. I didn't see that Micro managing from him to earn the term "Control Freak" I can understand that term being used from disgruntle players regarding a very hard Training Camp. But it doesn't make it correctly used or applied. And not what the writer was trying to refer to.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Unfortunately, I agree. Look at players 33 on down to 49. Not one of them stepped up this year. Those bottom of the roster players are the ones that help the better organizations remain competitive even when the roster is hit with injuries.
But, the good news I see is that we do have talent. I know most of us are hoping for a small splash in FA (I do want Dansby), but our roster might actually be just as well served if we can find 5-10 guys to fill out some of the bottom roster spots who will be able to give our team more than we have had.
#gmstrong
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Pit...you don't have to be "RIGHT" or "Wrong" with each and every post and opinion.
I agree with you that to me there was a lack of satisfactory coaching results. But to it to the negative degree that you did was to me the incorrect variable in your opinion.
DQ you state his progress was just nature takings it course....well then what about all the others that didn't. Obviously coaching took with him. He didn't do it all on his own.
Actually I thought Cribbs was one of the worst examples out there. All his accolades come from his Special Teams contributions. Which pretty much are Heart and Desire based.
He's a terrible example because of the his development as a WR...I think thats actually an outright failure and if not for his ST success he probably wouldn't even be on the team.
But you are correct...here is an example. I was totally miffed by this...we displayed probably the worst defensive run we had with the Raven and Denver game right in the middle of it.
Then we practiced...not hitting, not actually tackling for fear of injuries. But we practiced, Angles among other little nuances. Why? Why freakin weak 9 or 10 are we just getting into those details and fundamentals of the game. When it was evident long before that. To me that is when I started to feel something was not right with RAC and his program...was it all on RAC...no two of them got fired if I recollect. But RAC was in charge of demanding execution from his asst. and if they were not doing something right...not for him to take over...but for him to advise his assistant on what he wanted done in practice.
As you said... "But technique in tackling, playing out of position, and a general lack of cohesiveness among certain units IMO lays squarely at the feet of the coaching staff."
you are 100% correct - but just so not to get a big head. They did coach, just were not able to communicate it evidently well enough to take. But some individual did take. I listed a few but there are more. DA is one that comes to mind.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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If you have to "teach" the fundamentals once a player gets to the NFL level, then you have a player that shouldn't be in the NFL. Some players just aren't talented enough on our roster, some just aren't "coachable", some the coaches did a poor job of developing, and others were developed. It goes MUCH deeper than just blame the coaches.
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