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You base that on 2 or 3 games? You some up Brady on that many games and we have seen DA for 2 years. We KNOW DA!!!! You dont have enough on Brady to say that but he moved the ball and done NO better, which meens "as good" and its only in a few games????????
YEP!!!!!!! Quinn is as good as DA in just his first couple games.....
Let me think......I'll take Quinn!!!!!
You dont have to win every game just the next one!
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Hopefully we keep DA, I would much rather have him then BQ. To be honest, I am not sure that either one is the answer, but IMO DA is a better quarterback then Quinn now, and can develop into a much better one in the future. What we should be doing is trying to trade Quinn.
Friendly suggestion: GO BACK AND DO YOUR HOMEWORK ON DA SINCE HE HAS BEEN WITH THE BROWNS, MORON. 
Well I bet you won't make it to 100 posts.
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Is it just me, or did Anderson get to play more than Quinn when he should have been benched. This is a mute point, because your buddy Anderson is going..going...going, gone. Very soon. Save this response for future reference. 
Well, DA didn't get benched he got hurt.
BQ put up the same # so I guess with your reasoning he should be benched too.
You are hoping for all hope that DA is going to be traded but we really don't know that to be a fact as of yet do we ?
Maybe they will trade both of them and everyone can complain about someone new.
The pretty boy offered nothing new, inspite of all the BQers claiming he would take us to the promised land . Fact is our problems had nothing to do with WHO was at QB.
New QB same results. 
The point I was trying to make was that Anderson, "should have been benched during the last Cinn. game in '07". He should never have been the starter in '08. If I offended you with my "Lum", joke I apologize, he is such a DA lover, somewhat like you. 
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We shall see, hopefully Mangini takes a long hard look at this and makes an informed decision, but one thing is for sure...We can't keep them both.
He has enough film to be ready to trade DA off now. The evidence is there.
I will add my 2 cents. Coaches look at things like film more different than fans.
If commiting to a WC hybrid than Quinn has to be our guy to handle the mobility factor of that offense. Agreeing with Og, Jamal will have to take a seat to the side and be a goal line back if he wants to stay on this team. Harrison, a FA pickup, or a speedier shifty back with have to handle the load due to most single back formations in a WCO.
Who are the FA RBs projected this off season?
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RB Brandon Jacobs UFA 6-4/264 NY Giants
RB Derrick Ward UFA 5-11/228 NY Giants
RB Rudi Johnson UFA 5-10/225 Detroit
RB LaMont Jordan UFA 5-10/230 New England
RB Maurice Morris UFA 5-11/205 Seattle
RB Deshaun Foster UFA 6-0/222 San Francisco
RB Dominic Rhodes UFA 5-9/203 State Indianapolis
RB Darren Sproles UFA 5-6/180 San Diego
RB Jason Wright UFA 5-10/210 Cleveland
RB J.J. Arrington UFA 5-9/218 Arizona
RB Aaron Stecker UFA 5-10/213 New Orleans
RB Jesse Chatman UFA 5-8/225 NY Jets
RB Correll Buckhalter UFA 6-0/222 Philadelphia
RB Travis Minor UFA 5-10/203 St. Louis
If your talking about a WCO I think Derrick Ward would be a nice fit in that system.
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I think BQ is the future but just to be devil's advocate here for a second. Maybe DA struggled this year because of the concussion that caused him to miss almost all of training camp. He never gets into that rhythm. Just look at how long Peyton Manning took to get in the groove after he missed training camp. Just a thought.
I really believe the issue with DA is that in the huddle he is the 3rd or 4th voice. It sure seems like BQ really is the boss in the huddle. I really think this is huge. Take Eli Manning for example. Look how much he improved once Tiki left. With the departure of Tiki, Eli became the undisputed leader of that team. I think DA has the physical talent but even if we got rid of KWII and Braylon I still don't think he can become the leader the offense needs.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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[We rarely even attempted to go deep, so I don't really think it was a factor of it getting it taken away.
We rarely attempted to go deep because teams DID take it away from us, they dared DA to beat us in a different way and he couldnt do it.
Other teams crowded the line, pinned their ears back and went after DA because they knew he did not have the ability to beat the blitz by finding the short to mid hot routes with any regularity. It is very hard to throw downfield on a defense blitzing the hell out of you.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I think BQ is the future but just to be devil's advocate here for a second. Maybe DA struggled this year because of the concussion that caused him to miss almost all of training camp. He never gets into that rhythm. Just look at how long Peyton Manning took to get in the groove after he missed training camp. Just a thought.
I really believe the issue with DA is that in the huddle he is the 3rd or 4th voice. It sure seems like BQ really is the boss in the huddle. I really think this is huge. Take Eli Manning for example. Look how much he improved once Tiki left. With the departure of Tiki, Eli became the undisputed leader of that team. I think DA has the physical talent but even if we got rid of KWII and Braylon I still don't think he can become the leader the offense needs.
Thank you for the response. I'm not an M.D. or a D.O., but maybe you can answer this question for me. Does a minor concussion usually last practically the entire season. And would the Dr's release him if he was not ready to compete without restrictions?
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There is no doubt in my mind that if DA could fix his accuracy in the "short game" he could be a phenominal QB.
I want one of two things to happen.
A) Hire the best QB coach on the market and take both QB's into training camp and see who takes the job.
B) Bring in the best QB coach on the market and trade DA cause we need the draft pick.
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I think BQ is the future but just to be devil's advocate here for a second. Maybe DA struggled this year because of the concussion that caused him to miss almost all of training camp. He never gets into that rhythm. Just look at how long Peyton Manning took to get in the groove after he missed training camp. Just a thought.
I really believe the issue with DA is that in the huddle he is the 3rd or 4th voice. It sure seems like BQ really is the boss in the huddle. I really think this is huge. Take Eli Manning for example. Look how much he improved once Tiki left. With the departure of Tiki, Eli became the undisputed leader of that team. I think DA has the physical talent but even if we got rid of KWII and Braylon I still don't think he can become the leader the offense needs.
This goes into what I've spoken about in the past about DA not dealing with the presence of Quinn and the media hype that is involved with BQ very well. Since the pickup of Quinn this town went crazy and was clamoring for him, despite the fact that DA will go down in Browns history second to Sipe in TDs thrown in a single season.
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There is no doubt in my mind that if DA could fix his accuracy in the "short game" he could be a phenominal QB.
I want one of two things to happen.
A) Hire the best QB coach on the market and take both QB's into training camp and see who takes the job.
B) Bring in the best QB coach on the market and trade DA cause we need the draft pick.
He carried this "short game rap", with him ever since his college days. Not much has changed. IMHO
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Only 2 are on that list of RB free agents that I would be remotely interested in. Darren Sproles (though a little on the small side) and Ward (I've always loved his running style, but curious if his success' were as a result of the offensive system he is in i.e. "the denver RB factory" of the early 2000s.
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The guy has never had a great QB coach either.
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Only 2 are on that list of RB free agents that I would be remotely interested in. Darren Sproles (though a little on the small side) and Ward (I've always loved his running style, but curious if his success' were as a result of the offensive system he is in i.e. "the denver RB factory" of the early 2000s.
Subject of this post?????
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The guy has never had a great QB coach either.
I think it's the same one that BQ has had in C-town.!!! And Anderson has been here longer!!!!
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NO WAY!!! Are you serious? Who would have thought, thank you captain obvious.
Thats my point exactly.
BQ hasn't done squat either. And they have had the same QB coach. Coincidence?
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NO WAY!!! Are you serious? Who would have thought, thank you captain obvious.
Thats my point exactly.
BQ hasn't done squat either. And they have had the same QB coach. Coincidence?
Keep going over same o same o. One more time....how many starts has DA had compared to BQ? You don't even have to answer that, I know who the better QB is. What is sad is that as a Browns fan, you do not. Have a nice eve. GO BROWNS
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Alot more than Brady Quinn and a pro-bowl. He has alot more wins too.
The funny thing is that Brady Quinn came out and did nothing to show that he is a franchise QB. But people like you think just because he is the "golden boy" that he is automatically the best thing since sliced bread. And you have no basis to back that up what so-ever!!! But you "know" who the better QB is.
How do you "know' that he is the better QB? do you have any FACTS to back this up or are you getting a "gut feeling" there Butch?
The funny thing is that I don't care one way or the other which is the better QB I just want one to step up and win games for us. The difference between you and me is that I don't have such a blinding love for a certain QB that I just cannot see the fact that neither one of them has seperated themselves from the other.
You may think you "know" who the better QB is but sorry pal the facts speak for themselves. If you didn't have such a man crush on Brady then you might be able to see that.
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One more thought this eve. Even though we might argue and disagree on some points etc., the bottom line is that we are all Browns fans and want the franchise to be a winner. Sometimes, because, at least since '99, we have not been what we might have expected, year after year. I know this, and sometimes I loose perspective as a result. If I have insulted any of my Browns fans this eve. I whole heartedly apologize, knowing that when it comes right down to it, we all are for the same thing, the success of the Cleveland Browns. Thanks, daydawg19
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Thats why I don't care who is the better QB, Brady Quinn or Derek Anderson.
I want the best guy for the job and all i'm saying is that neither one has seperated themselves from the other.
I'm not going to say one is better just cause I like the other one more.
However I do want Anderson gone for a couple of reasons.
1)No more QB controversy. As long as he is here there will be one.
2) If we trade him we can get a draft pick to bring in some help else where, and Brady isn't going anywhere.
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NO WAY!!! Are you serious? Who would have thought, thank you captain obvious.
Thats my point exactly.
BQ hasn't done squat either. And they have had the same QB coach. Coincidence?
Keep going over same o same o. One more time....how many starts has DA had compared to BQ? You don't even have to answer that, I know who the better QB is. What is sad is that as a Browns fan, you do not. Have a nice eve. GO BROWNS
Gotta love the BQers, they have all the excuses lined up.
We aren't supposed to compare the #s bucause BQ has only started a few games but last year they were declaring him the best QB with out a start.
Last year you all were screaming for BQ after a few starts by DA and judging him on a few starts.
You can't have it both ways guys.
Face it BQ offered no more than DA.
Now if he at least had the higher completion % as you all stated he would give us , you might have an argument.but alas he didn't.
Kinda blows your argument out of the water Coach.
And don't feed me your tired mechanics crap I'll answer you with Bernie.
It means nothing, if what you state is true the change would have happened long ago.
Daydawg. since you know who the better QB is , when are you scheduled for your GM interview ? 
Fact is I don't give a rats butt who the QB is , as long as we start winning.
I'm not in love with any player, they usually aren't around long enought to fall in love with like years ago. Including the ones from my favorite college team , if they don't produce then they need to be replaced.
But they shouldn't be the fans and medias scapegoat when the problems are greater than their performance.
That being said , I'm just tired of listining to self proclaimed experts giving us the knowall. Then backpedaling with excuses when things didn't work out like they claimed they would. 
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NO WAY!!! Are you serious? Who would have thought, thank you captain obvious.
Thats my point exactly.
BQ hasn't done squat either. And they have had the same QB coach. Coincidence?
Keep going over same o same o. One more time....how many starts has DA had compared to BQ? You don't even have to answer that, I know who the better QB is. What is sad is that as a Browns fan, you do not. Have a nice eve. GO BROWNS
Gotta love the BQers, they have all the excuses lined up.
We aren't supposed to compare the #s bucause BQ has only started a few games but last year they were declaring him the best QB with out a start.
Last year you all were screaming for BQ after a few starts by DA and judging him on a few starts.
You can't have it both ways guys.
Face it BQ offered no more than DA.
Now if he at least had the higher completion % as you all stated he would give us , you might have an argument.but alas he didn't.
Kinda blows your argument out of the water Coach.
And don't feed me your tired mechanics crap I'll answer you with Bernie.
It means nothing, if what you state is true the change would have happened long ago.
Daydawg. since you know who the better QB is , when are you scheduled for your GM interview ?
Fact is I don't give a rats butt who the QB is , as long as we start winning.
I'm not in love with any player, they usually aren't around long enought to fall in love with like years ago. Including the ones from my favorite college team , if they don't produce then they need to be replaced.
But they shouldn't be the fans and medias scapegoat when the problems are greater than their performance.
That being said , I'm just tired of listining to self proclaimed experts giving us the knowall. Then backpedaling with excuses when things didn't work out like they claimed they would.
I tried to find some common ground, but apparently that is not going to be the case. Soooo, why don't you keep on hitting your head against that wall, and just maybe, it might knock some since into your thick skull. On second thought, I doubt it. 
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Ward and Sproles would both be AMAZING West Coast RBs, but both will likely come with huge price tags thanks to their late season surges. I'd still love to have either if that's the offense we're going to run (and yes, I think BQ is better suited for that can of O based on the fact he can actually hit the RB on his way out of the backfield. DA really sucked at that). As for DA's trade value... maybe a 3rd? I know some will laugh at that as too high and others will say a desperate team will give up a first. I'm taking the average of those two crazy views 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/GmuEd.gif) "One man's Bum is another man's Hobo" - Waterdawg
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I still maintain the fact that we can get at-least a third for him.
Like I have said before. Remember when A.J Feely got traded for a second round pick? Plus didn't Schaub go for a first rounder and he only started a game or two.
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I am not suggesting that the concussion lasted the entire season. My point is that it caused him to miss training camp so he was never able to deveop that timing and rhythm. ie like it too Peyton Manning what 4 games to start clicking and he has been in the same offense with the same receivers for what 6 years and he is one of the hardest working Qb's in the NFL and one of the most talented.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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As for DA's trade value... maybe a 3rd? I know some will laugh at that as too high and others will say a desperate team will give up a first. I'm taking the average of those two crazy views
A 3rd?......I agree.....but only after we pay the bonus before the trade. If we try trading him before the bonus is due, we'd be lucky to get a 5th. No team is going to trade a decent pick (3-4) AND take on a $5 million bonus + his salary, lets be real.
I suppose if we swing a deal with a team that we pay some portion of the bonus.....but I doubt that.
Once the bonus is paid, DA becomes a very tradable asset in my opinion. And heck, we might be able to get a 3rd then....and I'd do that (Lerner's got deep pockets, who cares!).
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
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Punchsmack - I think your sig sums things up quite concisely.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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What evidence do you have that BQ is so much better ?
Could it be that great completion % he had ? ... 50.6%
DA was at 50.2% not a big difference
Could it be the great yards per attempt he had ? .....5.8
DA was at 5.7 not a big difference
Must have been that fantastic QB rating he had ....66.6
DA was at 66.5
You BQers are funny you make up crap just to make your point .
BQ played one full game and one quater of another game before he broke his finger. Three quarters of the second game and the third game were played with that broken finger.
Try sorting out the difference in stats broken down that way. But of course that wouldn't support your theory to try to discredit the best possible QB potential we've had for decades.
I hope you follow DA where ever he goes.........................
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I am not suggesting that the concussion lasted the entire season. My point is that it caused him to miss training camp so he was never able to deveop that timing and rhythm. ie like it too Peyton Manning what 4 games to start clicking and he has been in the same offense with the same receivers for what 6 years and he is one of the hardest working Qb's in the NFL and one of the most talented.
Jester: Was kidding about the concussion time frame, buuut, I believe that he never had much of a timing and rhythm that I saw. Just a heave ho down the field and hope for the best. Oh, and BE, just so happened to be catching footballs at that time. JMHO
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daydawg, just because people disagree with you doesn't mean you have to insult everyone, I thought after the apology in one of your posts you had turned the corner, but I guess not...5 posts down...another insult. If you are going to keep doing that get out of here because no one wants you.
![[Linked Image from i161.photobucket.com]](http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t215/nick_ogrin/ogdawg.jpg) Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Punchsmack - I think your sig sums things up quite concisely.
Thanks, I wanted to add "trade DA for a bag of balls and some used jock straps" but I figured I'd turn every thread I post in....well, into a QB debate thread. So I left it out. And looking at some of the above posts, there are enough people on the other side of the fence to worry about that. 
I don't think this team is far away from contending again. However, this team will have a new coach, new GM, new coordinators, new schemes, new rookies, new free agents, trying to overcome the pressure of a 4-12 season, our needy fans and we'll most likely be playing Pittsburgh/Baltimore early in the season.....we CAN'T have a QB controversy too. We have to get this ship going in the right direction. No distractions. And a QB controversy might be the biggest distraction in the NFL.
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That being said , I'm just tired of listining to self proclaimed experts giving us the knowall. Then backpedaling with excuses when things didn't work out like they claimed they would.
Compare DA's "first three NFL starts" to BQ's.
Then get back to me.
You don't have enough evidence to know that BQ "isn't the answer". But we do know he has the "potential".
We DO have enough evidence on DA to know he's NOT the answer.
Try again Skippy!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Compare DA's "first three NFL starts" to BQ's.
DA's first 3 games...KC 95.5 rating, 12/21 171 yds 2 tds 1 int
Pit 78.2 rating, 21/37 276 yds 1 td 1 int
Bal 85.8 rating, 23/32 223 yds 2 tds 2 ints
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Compare DA's "first three NFL starts" to BQ's.
DA's first 3 games...KC 95.5 rating, 12/21 171 yds 2 tds 1 int
Pit 78.2 rating, 21/37 276 yds 1 td 1 int
Bal 85.8 rating, 23/32 223 yds 2 tds 2 ints
Did you really think he was going let you get away with the KC game?
He didn't start against KC.
Last edited by Thebigbaddawg; 01/10/09 12:10 AM.
you had a good run Hank.
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...You think that BQ is the best possible quarterback we have had in decades? Based on what, those numbers he put up against navy and air force at Notre Dame, or was it all those victories in big games against top competition? It is amazing to me how many people are infatuated with the pretty boy from South Bend. He didn't get it done in college, what makes you think he can now? At least with Anderson we have some evidence of what he is capable of on the football field like the Pro Bowl and 10 wins in 07. Trade Quinn now while is value is high.
I find your response to a very credible post, personally insulting. Please refrain from posting to any of BQ's themes, topics or any posts relating to him. We appreciate your cooperation. Brady Quinns 2009 support team.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
4 int's and 4td's. Sounds great? And yes, I put it to "potential". He has the "ability" to be the best QB we've had in decades. And soon, VERY soon, I'll have the oppertunity to rub your face in it. And believe me, with your cockiness? I most certainly will. Bank on it!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298
1st String
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1st String
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 298 |
lol this is going to kill me if this goes on another year....
Thanks NaTaS "In the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 74,739 |
Quote:
lol this is going to kill me if this goes on another year....
It won't. DA will be gone. What will you do then? Support Gradkowski over BQ?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
DA's real first three starts stats.
at Pit 21-37 56.8% 276 yards 1 td 1 int QB Rating 78.2
at Balt 23-32 71.9% 223 yards 2 td 2 int QB Rating 85.8
vs TB 10-27 37% 123 yards 0 td 4 int QB Rating 12.3
you had a good run Hank.
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