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Since the season is over and a new coach is hired, I feel the approach of the team needs to change,
I hope the new GM and Mangini get away from the drafting of "potential" that seemed to be Savages thing. I want guys that have it, not ones that might get it. Screww these "versatile" players we've been drafting for years now. Ones that aren't good at any perticular position, but can play many. I want LBs that are LBs. I don't want DEs that need a year to become OLB, I want the guys that can and have done it. IMO the biggest mistake this team has made as far as personnel goes, is these "potential" guys that keep being drafted.
Like I've stated in the GM search thread, the GM, player personnel guy, and Mangini need to team up and pick players that can play now, not ones that need to grow at their position. I'm sick of the tweeners we keep getting that never pan out.
I know we are sticking with the 3-4, but Rogers and Williams were outstanding as 4-3 lineman, and most of our LBs are more suited to the 4-3. I don't see why letting them do what they do best is going to hurt. It's funny many bashed Williams for not getting sacks, but that's not what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do, yet he is still criticized. I'm sure he and Rogers understand the scheme now, and I don't think changing to the 4-3 is the thing to do, but my thing is the "square peg in a round hole" thing that keeps happening every year. Get players suited for the scheme not ones that need to change the way they have played for years.
Just as an added note, I really feel Harrison will be quite effective in the offensive scheme that Mangini is bringing in (West coast hybrid) I also feel our Oline is more suited for that type of scheme. Any thoughts?
#gmstrong
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My thoughts:
We stick with the 3-4. Any criticism Williams has recieved is b/c look at who he plays next too. Shaun "Big Baby" Rogers. A guy that makes plays consistently, and gets to the ball. Williams has not done that much, but he is a good guy to have on our team. He sticks. I think our team really missed Robaire Smith though.
O yea... Shaun Smith can bounce... Ahtuba Rubin can get his playing time all I care.
I agree with you on we need to draft guys who do ONE thing very well. It's nice to have a lineman that can play 3 positions, but man... Just play one... Nobody complains that Joe Thomas isn't playing LG every now and then. lol.
Get PLAYMAKERS!!
Also.. PLAY HARRISON MORE!!! Throw him the screen more.
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Love the sig, Maualuga is my dream pick. Attitude and speed....just what the doctor ordered  I think with some playmakers behind them, this Dline will be seen as a good one. It seemed to me that they did eat up blockers, but our slow as molasses LBs could fill the gaps. The Ghost will make an impact, I will bet on it.
Last edited by eryze19akaBT58; 01/11/09 02:50 PM.
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I just wanted to point out that Williams has been hurt all year and played through it. His shoulder has caused him alot of problems and he probably should have shut it down. He was injured in the preseason and never recovered. I think he will do much better next year when completely healthy. It's tough to play with one arm.
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Great point Coach, many overlook that. IMO he still was solid. Most are judging him on sacks, something that a 3-4 Dlineman shouldn't be judged by. If Robaire returns, and Rubin develops, I see a nice rotation. I have lost respect for Smith after the locker room punch, if he stays I wouldn't mind, but if he's gone no big deal.
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I agree with you, except for the Smith thing. I know there were alot of things said about it in the media, but from what I heard, and I trust what I hear completely, it wasn't quite what it was made out to be. There was some jawing back and forth and it got serious (immaturity on both sides IMO). There was more of a push shove kinda thing and there wasn't an intentional punch to the face as much as BQ getting hit during the scuffle. That's no excuse, but it's not like Smith went over and started thrwoing haymakers (wow, an old time saying LOL) at BQ's head. As always, take it for what you will, just passing along what I heard about it.
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Legend
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Quote:
I hope the new GM and Mangini get away from the drafting of "potential" that seemed to be Savages thing. I want guys that have it, not ones that might get it. Screww these "versatile" players we've been drafting for years now. Ones that aren't good at any perticular position, but can play many. I want LBs that are LBs. I don't want DEs that need a year to become OLB, I want the guys that can and have done it. IMO the biggest mistake this team has made as far as personnel goes, is these "potential" guys that keep being drafted.
Once you get past the 2nd round ..... you are almost always drafting potential. You don't find "sure fire stud players" in the 3rd, 4th and later rounds. You look for guys with certain qualities and abilities who might develop into a solid player, or who might fill a role on your team.
Further, as college has been mostly a 4-3 defensive haven ..... teams that run a 3-4 have to look for players who fit the 3-4 as LBs. These are usually stand up DE types. The Steelers do a great job of finding them. It's not a matter of "taking a chance on potential" .... it's a matter of finding th right guys who fit.
As far as versatile guys ...... once you get past the starters ..... guys better be able to play special teams. They better be able to play a role. LBs and DBs might fit the nickel and/or dime, while they are limited in, and/or learning the base defense. You might have a guy who is really raw .... but a great pass rusher. You might have a WR who will never be a starter based on his size and/or speed ..... but who can find a niche as a solid 3rd down guy. Ditto for a guy like Harrison .... who will (sorry to all of his fans) never be able to take the beating a starting RB takes ..... but who can be effective in a specialized, limited role.
Sometimes fans get burned out on certain key words and phrases used by those who fall out of favor ..... but having the messenger dumped doen't make the message 100% wrong.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Quote:
There was more of a push shove kinda thing and there wasn't an intentional punch to the face as much as BQ getting hit during the scuffle. That's no excuse, but it's not like Smith went over and started thrwoing haymakers (wow, an old time saying LOL) at BQ's head. As always, take it for what you will, just passing along what I heard about it
I'm glad to hear that. I liked Smith, I saw his antics upclose at training camp, and it seemed to be all fun. His play was decent and the more the merrier as far as the rotation.
Thanks, I trust your info, and it makes more sense than the crap I read.
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You are right and brought up some good points. I think what he's referring to with the "versatile" is the penchant we've had to get guys to play more than one spot, not realy special teams. I could be wrong, but that's how I read it.
You have to expect your first two rounds, IMO, to be contributors, at least, quickly....especially with such glaring needs. Later on, you are taking players to develop, as you said. Good reply.
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All good points, except for the Harrison comment  . I guess I'm talking more about your first and second round guys. Proven players is what I want. I understand that using the term "potential" the way I did is somewhat innacurate, the "versatile" thing too, but my point was more towards the targeted positions being drafted. I didn't mean to sound as if those qualities were not good, but that it seemed to me that Savage and Butch both drafted guys that MIGHT become what they wanted.
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Quote:
I think what he's referring to with the "versatile" is the penchant we've had to get guys to play more than one spot, not realy special teams. I could be wrong, but that's how I read it.
Exactly......
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Quote:
Once you get past the 2nd round ..... you are almost always drafting potential. You don't find "sure fire stud players" in the 3rd, 4th and later rounds. You look for guys with certain qualities and abilities who might develop into a solid player, or who might fill a role on your team.
You are drafting for potential in the first round. No pick is a guaranteed success.
And I am also starting to think draft based on need. Most certainly for Day 1, but also for Day 2.
For instance, We drafted Rucker last year, yet the only CHANCE of him getting playing time is if there are a number of injuries to our TE's. He is behind Winslow, Heiden, and Dinkins. He could be with us for 3 years before we actually get to see him play, and by that time, Most will assume that since he couldn't get on the field, he must not be that good. So then whats next.. Draft another TE, which means we wasted a solid draft pick in the first place.
Draft on need.
Where do the Browns need immediate help at?
MLB
OLB
There are other positions that need help, but we NEED someone to replace Davis full time, and also to replace McGinnest/ Hall full time.
Now some positions you may take a chance on are HB, C, RG, and CB. The Browns will need someone soon to take over for Lewis, Fraley, and Hadnot. And we need better depth at corner.
All I can say is this...
Man I hope the Browns can trade down. 
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)
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Very agreed eryze! The idea of having a bunch of marginal folks is a premium thang for last 5 years. Can you (quickly now!) tell us how many QB's we went through, downed by injury in last 5 years? We need real players; not at a premium in all cases. 
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Quote:
I think what he's referring to with the "versatile" is the penchant we've had to get guys to play more than one spot, not realy special teams.
However ..... when you only have 45 guys active on gameday, you need backup guys who can play more than one spot if needed.
Generally speaking, your OL types aren't on return teams. This usually means that you will have 2 or 3 backup guys active on gamedays. This is usually a G/T type, a C/G type, and maybe a jack of all trades type.
There is usually at least 1 DB who can play a swing role between CB and S depending on the circumstances the game takes.
Personally, I hate the "active" and "inactive" lists. Not only does it necessitate more "swing" type players, I feel it also hurts development of young players by eliminating the possibility that they can get experience in games that are already decided. If you look at the Cavaliers, for example ..... guys like Hickson, Jackson, and Kinsey all have received significant playing time because of the number of blowout wins. How much would it benefit a young player to get real playing time in a real game ... even if the outcome is no longer in question?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The Player's Union not wanting to share the wealth,...I bet it's part of the CBA. But I'm just guessing. If it was my call, I'd have 60-65 guys on tap.
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It was part of the CBA changes when they changed the IR rules to eliminate player "stashing" ..... and was designed to allow a team to keep an injured player on their active rister, but inactive for a particular game. (or games)
I understand the reasoning behind it ...... but dislike it all the same. I think it eliminates th epossibility that a player shines in game situations who might not otherwise have an opportunity to do so.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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All Pro
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Quote:
I agree with you, except for the Smith thing. I know there were alot of things said about it in the media, but from what I heard, and I trust what I hear completely, it wasn't quite what it was made out to be. There was some jawing back and forth and it got serious (immaturity on both sides IMO). There was more of a push shove kinda thing and there wasn't an intentional punch to the face as much as BQ getting hit during the scuffle. That's no excuse, but it's not like Smith went over and started thrwoing haymakers (wow, an old time saying LOL) at BQ's head. As always, take it for what you will, just passing along what I heard about it.
You throw things or hit your franchise qb, you either better be doing it bc you are setting an example on the field or you should be cut. Pure and simple.
Example...a d-lineman or LB like Merriman knocking off Ryan Leaf's block several years ago would be 'okay' because it might have been done to wake the guy up (I know this didn't happen and the two never played together).
Or you can be an idiot in Smith who was jawing, like he routinely does on the field, along with showing nothing spectacular on the field to a guy who handled being 2nd string and his starting status with class.
That's a cancer, pure and simple.
![[Linked Image from thumb0.webshots.net]](http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/34/34/0/73/58/2594073580091396520Miskbz_th.jpg)
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1st String
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Quote:
I guess I'm talking more about your first and second round guys. Proven players is what I want.
Then, who exactly are you talking about? Wimbley?
I see no other first and second round picks that were "reaches" for us. Thomas, Quinn, Wright, Edwards...Wimbley.
There were no 3-4 proven OLBs at the spot where we took Wimbley. Everything is a reach when you're drafting 3-4 OLBs.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Hall of Famer
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Quote:
I think our team really missed Robaire Smith though.
No doubt. He was our best DL in 2007 BEFORE we added Williams and Rogers.
I'll take R Smith over S Smith any day of the week.
If he can recover fully next season, and we upgrade 2 LB spots, our defense will look much better. IF he can recover from that and play to par. That's a nasty injury.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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refresh my memory please: what injury did R. Smith have??
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Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
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Ruptured his achilles.
Remember Jamir Miller?
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Quote:
Remember Jamir Miller?
I was at the dome that night, happened about 30 yards in front of me.....
but we've come along ways in repairing the achilles now, so hopefully he makes a decent recovery.
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