|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,246 |
That's all well and good, but the fact of the matter is that we have no idea how he will be as a GM with all the control and responsibilities that come with it. Now, he certainly *seems* to have the tools to be very successful. But that's no guarantee that he'll do well in his new position.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
Quote:
Well, the thing is, do any of us know just how much responsibility he had with NE? I'm not doubting the guy did his job very well. But, will he be able to take on those extra responsibilities? Isn't that the question you always ask of rookies?
I may not, but what about Bob Kraft and Belichick?
----------------------------------------
“Scott Pioli was an integral part of the many championships the New England Patriots have celebrated this decade, and I would like to thank him for his countless contributions throughout the past nine seasons,” Patriots owner Robert Kraft said in a statement.
“Scott is a great evaluator of talent. He is thorough in his evaluations, extremely organized and has done a tremendous job mining all possible resources to help Coach Belichick and his staff field the players needed to win consistently.
“He has played an important role in building a championship tradition with players that I am proud to call Patriots. … Clark Hunt and the Kansas City Chiefs have made a very wise hire.”
--------------------------------------------
“To sum up in words everything Scott Pioli has meant to this organization and to me personally would be difficult, if not impossible,” Belichick said in a statement. “From the day I met him, he has demonstrated a passion for football and respect for the game that is second to none.
“It has been extremely gratifying for me to follow Scott's career ascension from the bottom of the totem pole in Cleveland to his place as a pillar of championship teams in New England. Now with the opportunity to steer his own ship and a vision of building a winner, there is no more capable, hardworking, loyal, team-oriented person than Scott Pioli.”
Too bad all that hard work is rewarded with a Charger playoff spot instead.
Just changing the drift a little,....sorry.
How are you "team oriented and loyal" when you jump ship,...more frogs and lilly pads I guess.
Last edited by OoooRahJoice; 01/13/09 08:57 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
It's not hard to figure out that the only rookie head coaches to find success in their first gig surrounded themselves with experienced assistants and/or coordinators. Those same coaches also most likely inherited a somewhat talented roster (i.e. Mike Tomlin). When I think of the roster that RAC and Savage inherited and the fact that both of them were rookies in their respective positions, it blows my mind that I actually thought we'd be successful. Hindsight is 20/20 but geeeezzz.... we really went about that all wrong. I hope this time is different.
Better roster + experienced coaches + good working relationships between said coaches and FO = ??? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I know that's what Lerner wanted but couldn't he at least have explored the possibility of a different route?
The man owns the freaking team, it's his money, it's his reputation on the line and my guess is he felt good about Mangini and not about Pioli,, let it go,, that's all you have been harping on for several days now... he didn't dig further because he must have felt he hit paydirt......
Besides, all reports indicate that he did indeed interview Spags and McDaniels.... what more do you want. the man said he wanted experience but still took the time to interview people that would have been rookie HC's..
How many more would have made you happy... 1,,, 2,,,, 10 more interviewed candidates?
Quote:
Also... I really wish everyone would stop referring Pioli as a rookie... sounds like sour grapes to me there.
Why, Listen Spec,, you can call him anything you want,,, but he's never ever had full control as a GM of an NFL team,,, That my friend, whether you choose to admit it or not, makes him a rookie.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
j/c (on myself) but I saw on NFL Network that Pioli's official title is Head of Football Operations and he will have FULL authority over every decision made. Isn't this a bit different than simply the GM's duties? Maybe Randy wasn't willing to give up that much control afterall. If that's the case, I don't want Pioli. The last thing we need is another power-hungry, ego-maniac calling all the shots.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512 |
That seems to make the most sense as to why he wasn't hired, since there is reports of Spags and Schwartz becoming coach, but no Ferentz.(yet)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,195 |
Quote:
The last thing we need is another power-hungry, ego-maniac calling all the shots.
I'm sure the Hunt family won't let him email fans.
#GMSTRONG
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,311 |
Quote:
That seems to make the most sense as to why he wasn't hired, since there is reports of Spags and Schwartz becoming coach, but no Ferentz.(yet)
Or the fact that Randy really wanted Mangini and Pioli said "thanks, but no thanks."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
Wow....so just so we're clear. Pioli, who has never had a final say in who was drafted, traded, or signed as a FA is a "proven" commodity while Coke, who has evaluated and signed FAs exclusively and also worked contracts with draft choices isn't? NEITHER are a "proven commodity" because both were (in Belichick's words) "a part" of a process. He is no more proven than Coke. In fact, is less proven considering Coke is the one that actually signed FAs. Like I said, you have no problem with KC focusing on one UNPROVEN person, but was really upset that Mangini, a far more "proven" coach than Pioli is GM, was hired the same way?!?!?! You mentioned something about "sour grapes"? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,530 |
Sorry I didn’t even bother to read the posts on this particular subject, I knew Pioli would take the KC job over the Browns job, I would have too.
Sorry again but we are way to dysfunctional a team and town. It is what it is, we are damned lucky to have gotten EM, time to move on.
BTTB
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Or the fact that Randy really wanted Mangini and Pioli said "thanks, but no thanks."
Ya know, I think that Randy and Pioli talked for a while and in the end, Randy walked away thinking,, I don't think this is my man.... and let it go from there.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Quote:
j/c (on myself) but I saw on NFL Network that Pioli's official title is Head of Football Operations and he will have FULL authority over every decision made. Isn't this a bit different than simply the GM's duties? Maybe Randy wasn't willing to give up that much control afterall. If that's the case, I don't want Pioli. The last thing we need is another power-hungry, ego-maniac calling all the shots.
More than just likely why he didn't get the job,....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,177 |
The Hunt's are smart, get a football guy first, then decide on you coach and personnel people.
The next false rumor that will get going. "we didnt wanna give Pioli complete control".
No.....
Pioli wasnt gonna follow Randy's obsession with getting "another Bill". Maybe EM woulda gotten the job anyway, but the process woulda been different.
Randy made a pre-determined decision, he wanted someone from the NE tree, and he wanted someone with experience. This is where the Browns need a football exec to step in and help Randy look at all avaible scenarios.
That didnt happen, we explored nothing, Cowher turned us down, then for a few hours Pioli was the guy until EM was fired. At that point, nobody else was really onthe radae.
Just because EM has prior HC experience doesn't make him the best candidate, as so many fans are trying to pawn off.
I hope Randy knows more than Pioli does, and more than Broncos and Jets braintrust does, that right there is still what scares me.
Hopefully this is a diff Randy than the one that gave out contract extensions to Phil, RAC, and Chud less than a year ago.
I'm not poo-pooing the hiring, EM is better than the previous bunch, I just think it woulda been way better to get Pioli. For long term success, and better organizational structure. Let him hire a HC and maybe a personnel person under him. How many time is the HC gonna outlast the VP/GM?
We all want to win, and have what Baltimore and Pit has, and why do they have great teams? They have great football people running them, making decisions, and not the owners.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,449 |
Quote:
No, I think that he's comfortable with the top GM and head coaching candidate in many people's minds since this process opened, excluding the guys that have no desire to coach right now.
Hmmm, isn't this where we were four years ago? Top GM candidate in Savage, highly touted DC for HC....eerily similar.
Good luck KC 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
I see Pioli as a frog hopping from one lilly pad to the other,...Mangini got FIRED.
Pioli don't give a rat's ass about Kansas City, Cleveland or Ohio, let alone the Browns. Apparently he has no loyalty to New England either. Doesn't that say something ? Same for Coconuts,...
Bad process or not, I'm hoping we got the right guy.
Hope is all I have anymore, because the past did not work and I only have so much future left.
You win with people.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
A football exec did help Lerner made the decsion. I'll take Ernie Accorsi's judgement over Pioli's ANY DAY. Pioli is a rookie and has never had final say in a decision before. Accorsi is a PROVEN NFL executive. Of course, Pioli is the flavor of the month so everybody thinks he would be incredible....kind like the flavor of the month a few years ago in a wunderkind called Phil Savage.
It's been well documented as to Pioli wanting full control and his hiring in KC verifies that. Do you have a link to that not being true?
Last edited by CoachB; 01/13/09 11:21 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
If the Chiefs somehow pull off a Piolo/Spagnuolo combination, I'm going to be very jealous.
Why? We don't even know that Pioli ever made a decision on his own.. we don't know if Belichick made all the final decisions or not, but knowing his propensity for control, my guess is that Pioli is a not a decision maker.
As for Spags,, I like him and think he'll be a pretty good head coach.. But there isn't a single guarantee of that..
So I ask again, why would you be jealous?
Forget for a second that Mangini is officially ours and Kokinis probably will be soon to remove all bias...
If, at the beginning of this process, you were offered the choice between Pioli/Spagnuolo or Mangini/Kokinis, who would you have chosen?
The latter.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,528
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,528 |
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224 |
Coin flip. 
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Good.....I never liked the guy, never quiet trusted him, maybe I shouldnt say that, since I really dont know the guy, but something about him says dont turn your back.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Quote:
A football exec did help Lerner made the decsion. I'll take Ernie Accorsi's judgement over Pioli's ANY DAY. Pioli is a rookie and has never had final say in a decision before. Accorsi is a PROVEN NFL executive. Of course, Pioli is the flavor of the month so everybody thinks he would be incredible....kind like the flavor of the month a few years ago in a wunderkind called Phil Savage.
Well put.....I agree 100%,
I'd also love to have Erine back in some aspect.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7,234 |
Quote:
Whatever happned to, "if you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with?"
Nothing.
It's the offical motto of the new era Browns fans with this front office and its revolving doors.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Sorry I didn’t even bother to read the posts on this particular subject, I knew Pioli would take the KC job over the Browns job, I would have too.
I doubt you could have known that...
Quote:
Sorry again but we are way to dysfunctional a team and town. It is what it is, we are damned lucky to have gotten EM, time to move on.
I think we aren't at all dysfunctional... not even in the least. I think Phil Savage was dysfunctional when looking back with a clear eye.
Dysfunction is when you don't see the problems and thus you don't repair the problems and continue down a path of destruction and failure.
Randy may not be the best owner, but he's clearly working at it and seems to be relentless in his pursuit of the right guys. (as he defines them, not as you or I do)
At the end of the season, he was quick to move! He wasted no time in releasing Savage... I think the pittsburgh game was over at about 4pm that day and by 5:10 I had heard Savage was gone.
Randy met, as agreed, with RAC the next morning and the deal was done quickly there.
Randy has done exactly the right things all along based on information he's had.
He hired Savage and RAC because at that moment, they were the Pioli/Spags or the Pioli/Farentz of that moment.
In a power struggle, he stood by his football guy
And when the team of Savage and RAC failed, he made decisions about how to do it the RIGHT WAY.
he's following his beliefs..
The only way this team is dysfunctional is if the owner is.. it all starts at the top.
Randy lerner is clearly not the most experienced guy in that role.. But look at how some of the best have done it or ARE doing it this year, and you can clearly see the goal he has in mind and the direction it's going to go.
You can call that dysfuntional if you want,, But I can't agree with that..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Pioli is a rookie and has never had final say in a decision before.
That's the point I was trying to make to some folks on here that think that we should have hired him (pioli) and let him run the show.
He's a rookie in the traditional sense, as a GM..
And, if that's not enough for some, we just did the same thing with Savage.. We took a guy,, highly touted guy I might add, put him in total control and look where that got us.
Thanks, But I'm pretty happy that Lerner didn't take that path again.
Why is it so hard for some folks to understand.,, if a guy hasn't done the job, then he's a rookie at the job.. it doesn't matter how much experience he has with some of the duties, until he's had responsibility for ALL the duties, he's a ROOKIE.
Why is that such a hard concept for some to follow.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
What it was, wasn't working -- so it was broke.
If it is broke -- fix it.
Randy fixed it. I'm glad he's trying something different.
I actually don't care if we get a GM, if it lent itself to winning.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I actually don't care if we get a GM, if it lent itself to winning.
Given that the title of GM is only a title in this case (since he's not handing over complete control as he did with Savage) it might be better if he didn't hire a new GM and just kept TJ and let it go at that. I think Mangini and TJ knew each other from Baltimore... not sure, but I think so.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
Quote:
And, if that's not enough for some, we just did the same thing with Savage.. We took a guy,, highly touted guy I might add, put him in total control and look where that got us.
Thanks, But I'm pretty happy that Lerner didn't take that path again.
If we bring in Kokinis, that's exactly what we're doing because that's what his contract would entail. If he doesn't actually get the responsibility, you can bet Baltimore will file some kind of grievance. The only difference is that this time, the GM and head coach will be on the same page. Will that be enough to give us success?
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180 |
Quote:
Quote:
A football exec did help Lerner made the decsion. I'll take Ernie Accorsi's judgement over Pioli's ANY DAY. Pioli is a rookie and has never had final say in a decision before. Accorsi is a PROVEN NFL executive. Of course, Pioli is the flavor of the month so everybody thinks he would be incredible....kind like the flavor of the month a few years ago in a wunderkind called Phil Savage.
Well put.....I agree 100%,
Seconded.
At the start of the process, I was on the Pioli bandwagon for GM, so to the question Pioli/Spags vs. Mangini/Kokinis, I say Pioli/Spags. Keep in mind, that I am talking about GM/Head Coach. I also did not know much about Kokinis - actually, nothing. I also did not know Accorsi's recommendation or involvement.
Unfortunately, we are blind to a lot of information and all we can really assess are the moves that Lerner has made. I can't see anything that he has done wrong. He interviewed a variety of candidates, solicited the advice of leading football men, and was up-front with everyone since the start. C'mon!!! How could Hunt leave Edwards hanging like that for the past 2 weeks??? And Edwards had to find out about it through the media???  Besides, what have the Chiefs really done in the past 20 years? Any AFC championships??? 
And while I am on the topic - to lend any credence to Mangini's firing as an indication that he is a failed coach is weak. Keep in mind that you are assuming the Jets to be smart enough to make the right choice between Mangini and Tennenbaum. 
So, to sum up - yes, at the start of this process I wanted Pioli very much. But, as more information has come to light (e.g., he wants complete control; no indication that he will have any "experienced" coaches; Lerner spent 7 hours speaking with him) I'm not as disappointed that we did not get him.
And as of now, it looks like Lerner is making the smart moves compared to the Chiefs and Jets... 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
If we bring in Kokinis, that's exactly what we're doing because that's what his contract would entail.
That's unconfirmed at this time.. and I'm pretty sure it won't matter whats in his contract with the Ravens, it's what he agrees to here... don't be fooled by that stuff.. That's probably a Balitmore Media type trying to stir the pot..
Quote:
The only difference is that this time, the GM and head coach will be on the same page. Will that be enough to give us success?
One would think so, but it's a good question.. is it enough? I think the answer is this.. if the page they are both on is the RIGHT page,, yes,, if not,, in about 4 years, we'll be talking about all of this again.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
You're missing the whole point. You blasted Lerner for doing something you are praising the Chiefs for doing. Why? What's the difference? There is no difference other than your preferences based on what you're posting.
Actually, that very well could be enough. Even if Coke were given full authority, and at this point there are only rumors it would take that due to his contract and no one knows for sure, if they are on the same page, share the same philosophies, there will be no problem. Lerner has stated that there won't be full authority, as the GM and the Mangini will report to him, not one to the other. I'm pretty sure that Lerner knows whether or not he would have to give Coke full control. He's not a business moron after all. Since there is going to be a second interview and Lerner stated clearly that the GM would not be over the HC, I would say that Baltimore was blowing smoke to keep from getting another exec taken away.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
Since there is going to be a second interview and Lerner stated clearly that the GM would not be over the HC, I would say that Baltimore was blowing smoke to keep from getting another exec taken away.
Exactly Coach.. it's not like any of this happened in a smoke filled back room. it's all been out in the open.. so that's why I think the whole deal that the Ravens control what his next jobs duties will be is all bull.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
J/K
Pioli's options were beginning to run out and so was his negotiating power compared to Pioli's first interview with the Browns.
It was written that Pioli had demands that Randy Lerner could not agree to and that it was likely and no other team in the NFL would agree to those demands. So, Pioli moved on and thankfully, so did Lerner.
Then Pioli's show moved on to the Chiefs and for an extended time, he interviewed and discussed with the Chiefs, the possibility of being their GM. In the mean time, McDaniels was hired by the Broncos and it is yet to be seen if Ferentz is staying at Iowa.
Word is, Pioli is looking at the defensive coordinator Steve Spagnuolo and Tennessee Titans defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz to fill the Chiefs HC position...once Pioli or Chiefs owner Clark Hunt get up the nerve to fire Herm Edwards and his staff.
What does that mean?
It means that Pioli adjusted his position/demands upon being hired. It was said that Pioli had McDaniels or Ferentz packaged as HC upon his being hired as GM.
Had Pioli presented himself to Randy Lerner as a GM candidate only, willing to include the wishes of Lerner, in the search for a HC, he would have been hired for the Browns GM opening. It appears that Lerner didn't want a college coach (Ferentz) or a NFL coordinator (McDaniels) to be the Browns next HC. Lerner wanted someone with NFL HC experience.
Lerner went his way and did his hiring his way, and Pioli went his way and if Ferentz is not hired as the Chiefs HC, Pioli adjusted his demands. But Lerner could not wait two weeks to see if Pioli would adjust his demands and the rest is history.
Back to the Chiefs..I looked last evening to see if Herm Edwards and his staff had been fired by Pioli or the Chiefs owner Clark Hunt yet and I came up with nothing but "rumors" of Herms dismissal.
The Chiefs did Herm Edwards dirty and they know it. I'm sure one of the discussions between Pioli and Hunt was how to fire Herm and who was going to do it.
Herm Edwards followed the owners instructions and tore the Chiefs down, starting two years ago. In Herms first year, the Chiefs went 9-7 and made the playoffs...the following year, against the wishes of GM Carl Peterson, Herm Edwards with the support of owner Clark Hunt began the task of tearing down the Chiefs and beginning a rebuilding process..the Chiefs were 4-12. Last season, the tear down/rebuild continued and the Chiefs went 2-14.
The tear down is complete and now Herm Edwards is going to be fired. It looks like Herm got used by Clark Hunt and now Clark is through with him. Unlike Randy Lerner who notified his HC of his dismissal the day after the season ended, Clark Hunt has not found the courage to do the same for Herm Edwards and the KC coaching staff.
So Herm Edwards and his staff were left to dangle and twist in the wind for 2 weeks while coaching vacancies on other teams were being filled. As of this morning, there still is no news of Herm Edwards being fired... web page
Pioli moved on, changed his demands and found a home...great for him...at least Lerner didn't allow the Browns to twist in the wind for weeks waiting on Pioli.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,160 |
It means that Pioli adjusted his position/demands upon being hired. It was said that Pioli had McDaniels or Ferentz packaged as HC upon his being hired as GM.
Had Pioli presented himself to Randy Lerner as a GM candidate only, willing to include the wishes of Lerner, in the search for a HC, he would have been hired for the Browns GM opening. It appears that Lerner didn't want a college coach (Ferentz) or a NFL coordinator (McDaniels) to be the Browns next HC. Lerner wanted someone with NFL HC experience.
Even though EM said he and Pioli had a good relationship..he might have doing that in good faith..knowing that the guy wasn't going to work with him..
I think Lerner wanted a Pioli/Mangini team..and Pioli didn't want that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
You've made some assumptions there Mac, but basically, I think that's how it could have happened..
Lerner has reportedly said that Piolis damands were not out of reach.. (paraphrasing) but then, what would you expect he'd say in the press. he's not going to knock Pioli in public.
Personally, I think he sat down with Mangini and fell in love with him. Then talked to Pioli and simply put, Pioli didn't want Mangini.. That left Lerner with a decision to make,, go after Pioli or stick to his gut and take mangini and find another GM type guy.
Pioli was then left with two choices... stay in NE or go to KC.
Someone tell me how Herm Edwards could be allowed to find out from the media that he has a new boss that will most likely fire him and his staff..
How in the hell does that happen... Geesh.. That was stupid. And there are those that think WE are dysfunctional.....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842 |
Quote:
It means that Pioli adjusted his position/demands upon being hired. It was said that Pioli had McDaniels or Ferentz packaged as HC upon his being hired as GM.
Had Pioli presented himself to Randy Lerner as a GM candidate only, willing to include the wishes of Lerner, in the search for a HC, he would have been hired for the Browns GM opening. It appears that Lerner didn't want a college coach (Ferentz) or a NFL coordinator (McDaniels) to be the Browns next HC. Lerner wanted someone with NFL HC experience.
Even though EM said he and Pioli had a good relationship..he might have doing that in good faith..knowing that the guy wasn't going to work with him..
I think Lerner wanted a Pioli/Mangini team..and Pioli didn't want that.
Tacker...It goes back to what I said, Pioli was not flexible when it came to the owner being included in the hiring of a HC. Pioli appears to have adjusted his position of naming his guy as HC upon his being hired as GM.
Pioli might need to grow up some if he could not stand the thought of working with Mangini. As we know, a new GM goes through a maturing process once they get their first job and are on their own...so will Pioli.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659
Poser
|
|
Poser
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,659 |
I think it's a little deeper than that, mac. You notice that Pioli got full control i KC. Lerner has been clear that the GM wil not have full control here and the HC and GM will report to him, not one to the other. That is probably just as big a sticking point for Pioli.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180
1st String
|
|
1st String
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 180 |
I'm with you, mac. Something doesn't smell right in KC. All of this is idle speculation, but... I wonder if Pioli doesn't smell it, or he smells it and thinks he can fix it. Maybe Pioli thinks the KC owner is a weak pushover and he will be able to run rough-shod over him (if a man can't fire his head coach, how is he going to be able to stand up to the GM/Head of Operations?)
Perhaps Pioli feared a strong boss who would challenge him on decisions. Mind you, the strong boss is not forcing the GM to make specific decisions, just asking important questions about the decisions...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
Maybe Pioli has tired of being a Belichick puppet. Again, just speculation.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,227 |
I'm not missing the whole point, you are. I get what you're saying but it's on a faulty assumption. Pioli is a three time Executive of the Year, who was one of the two most important figures in building a 3 time Super Bowl winner and last year's 16-0 team. For those who say that Pioli wasn't important to the Patriots, read the words of Bill Belichick about him and tell me if you've EVER heard Belichick talk about someone like that. Both he and Bob Kraft say that he was instrumental in the success, so I'll take their word on it over yours. When he gets promoted to the GM role, the only real adjustment he has to make is making the decisions by himself, without the help of Belichick, as he was already the head of a front office. Pioli has been pursued left and right the past few years.
On the other hand, Kokinis is a bright, well regarded individual within Baltimore's front office. However, he isn't even the 2nd in command in Baltimore's front office (Ozzie Newsome, then Eric DeCosta) and only has a qualified background in pro personnel, not in college scouting which he'll have to lean on McCreight for if he comes here. He's less qualified for the position than Phil Savage coming out and the curve to become an NFL GM is a steep one. The only time his name has seriously been brought up before has been the last time Mangini was a head coach.
So... the difference here is that you're just saying "they're both rookies" and failing to actually look into qualification. I'm saying that they're both rookies at the GM position by definition, but saying they're both rookies and comparing them like that is like comparing natural rookies to Ichiro Suzuki when he came over to the US from Japan. Sure, he was technically a rookie. Doesn't mean he wasn't leaps and bounds above every other rookie when he not only won Rookie of the Year, but MVP in 2001.
Pioli's qualifications dictate that if he's a guy you want, there isn't really a lot of risk there. His qualifications, resume, references and reputation speak for itself. He's proven himself, even if it's not with an official title that you seem to want. Kokinis on the other hand, isn't nearly as qualified, regardless of how you want to spin it. He could end up being a good candidate, but THAT is the kind of guy I want vetted. Instead, Lerner is conducting a 2nd interview with him despite conducting no other interviews other than Pioli (who was out of the picture when Randy chose the HC first).
Say they're both rookies if you want and technically you're correct, but if you think they're at the same level and deserve the same kind of vetting process, you're off your rocker.
We're... we're good?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,222
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,222 |
Quote:
If the Chiefs somehow pull off a Piolo/Spagnuolo combination, I'm going to be very jealous.
Quote:
So you're comfortable with a first-time GM and a rookie head coach?
Aren't you glad he isn't running things in Berea? Yeah, we should have went with an all rookie line up. It's proven to be SO successfull here!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Pioli to join Chiefs
|
|
