|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Hey guys. I'm (obviously) a Falcons fan. We need a quality TE, and there are whispers about us going after Winslow.
I was a big fan of his dad, and he seems to be a really talented kid, himself.
The word is, he may just need a change.
What do you guys think about Winslow? Does he want out? Do yall want him out?
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Keith Bookings and your 1st round pick..............LOL.... Somebody was gonna say it, 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,149 |
He is talented, but always hurt. I do not want to see him leave, but he isn't much use in street clothes. I'll take Jenkins for him straight up.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Trade Kellen? Is Mike Vick available?
....ok, all kidding aside, I don't think we'll trade Kellen (or Braylon for that matter too). Although, Kellen would be traded before Braylon. DA will be on the trade block but I doubt we get much for him.
I'm still jealous you guys got Turner. I was pimping him hard all last offseason but we had Jamal Lewis coming off a great year....so it wasn't a possibility. Oh well...
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,531 |
Got a first rounder?
(We'd be in prime spot to pick Alex Mack...boy would that tick off Pittsburgh!)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
Keith Bookings and your 1st round pick..............LOL....
Somebody was gonna say it,
Oh God, PLEASE take Brooking, and Vick!!! 
Seriously though, the impression in the national media is Kellen isnt happy in Cleveland and the fans dont care much for him.
Does he want out?
Hell, I dont even know his contract status. I think he's a talented kid that made his "growing up" mistakes with yall, and a change would be good for him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Alex Mack? How about Duke Robinson or Max Unger. Not Alex Mack.
Falcon: I'd like to keep Winslow, but if we'd get a 2nd I take it. I don't think he wants out, but he does want a new contract and with his knee, we don't want to give him it. If it wasn't for his injury issues, there is no way I'd trade him.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
Alex Mack? How about Duke Robinson or Max Unger. Not Alex Mack.
Falcon: I'd like to keep Winslow, but if we'd get a 2nd I take it. I don't think he wants out, but he does want a new contract and with his knee, we don't want to give him it. If it wasn't for his injury issues, there is no way I'd trade him.
Hasnt he played every game for the last 3 years minus like 3 games this last season?
Is his knee still an issue?
God I would live to give yall a 4th and Brooking for him. Yall need an ankle diver that reads to kids?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
He hasn't missed a whole lot of games, but he is always hurt. 95% of the players wouldn't have played half the games he has these past few years.
Most people think he has three years left on his knee max. He has surgery on it just about every offseason.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,558 |
Last i heard he said he'd like to stay in Cleveland but it wouldn't surprise me if he got traded. He's a one dimensional player, he's got great hands but he can't block worth a damn and your first string TE needs to be able to block. Also because of his previous injuries his career will probably be shorter then normal. I say give us your 2nd rnd pick and you can have him.
#gmstrong
Live, Love, Laugh
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
This is from Michael Lombardi at his webiste The National Football Post: Quote:
I know that the Browns will also trade tight end Kellen Winslow this off-season and that he has not been a part of any discussions with coaching candidates.
I don't know how Lombardi knows this or if it's true. I'm just saying that it is definitely a possibility that Winslow gets traded, when before I didn't think it was.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
He hasn't missed a whole lot of games, but he is always hurt. 95% of the players wouldn't have played half the games he has these past few years.
Most people think he has three years left on his knee max. He has surgery on it just about every offseason.
I think we cut our last TE because of knee issues (Alge "the buffet killer" Crumpler). I assumed Kellens knee was healed. NFL.com shows he played every game in the 2006-07 seasons.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
He played in every game in 06 and 07 but was banged up throughout the season.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I believe he's had surgery on it every offseason except the last one. He almost always sits out practices prior to gameday, and he has to stretch it for over an hour before practices and games.
Give us a 2nd and he's yours.
(Or if you prefer we'll take Michael Turner and Matt Ryan)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
I believe he's had surgery on it every offseason except the last one. He almost always sits out practices prior to gameday, and he has to stretch it for over an hour before practices and games.
Give us a 2nd and he's yours.
(Or if you prefer we'll take Michael Turner and Matt Ryan)
Wow, now I hope those rumors are wrong. 
I think we should hold on to ole matty Ice and the Burner.
btw, I think yall made a good hire with mangenious. The Jets are idiots.
Yall gonna stick with Quinn or is Anderson coming back?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
Quote:
Yall gonna stick with Quinn or is Anderson coming back?
Oh great, you went and started another QB thread. 
At this point we don't know for sure. RAC had named Quinn the starter but he's gone now. Quinn seems to fit Mangini's Offense better and DA, along with not playing well, has a big roster bonus coming up in March, so we're guessing Quinn, but who knows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Knee...will always be an issue. He literally destroyed it to smitherings in that stupid Crotch Rocket accident. He might have 5 years left in him, which makes him tradeable. But he would come "AS IS" and there is not team Medical Physical that he would pass. Keep that in mind.
Trade value...I was hoping to deal him straight up to Zona for Boldin. Someone who would want out there.
Draft pick...a 2nd rounder or more. Wouldn't have the value of a Mid-first round pick or earlier due to the KNEE thing. Maybe late first or 2nd rounder +
Wants out of here???: He dug himself a deep hole injuring himself on the Cycle. It was actually WRITTEN in his contract...forbidding him to ride a Cycle. We could have taken all his bonus away...we were stand up and paid him his money but because of the lost healing time we made him Extend his contract. Ends in 2010.
He has Rosenhaus as his agent. KW2 wants out of the contract cause he knows his time is limited to make the big bucks do to the knee and pretty much Rosenhaus has drilled that into him. So of course a new contract would have to be worked out from the Falcons before he would show up.
Skills: What a great player he could have been. Even on one leg he is very talented. Has good hands and a fiery competitiveness. Can't block too well if thats what you want him for. I'm not quite sure he's the smartest guy in the world and doesn't pick up formations quickly. Has been known to change routes or didn't know the route.
Probably a top 5 TE still even with the knee as far as providing mismatches. He does work hard he is no Slacker!
Good luck
As always JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223 |
I personally don't want to get rid of him. He kind of dug his on grave by severely screwing his knee up, but when healthy, he's a threat that rarely can be countered.
It sounded as though Kellen may have wanted out for a bit, but his issue was with Phil Savage. Savage was fired, and all has been quiet on the Winslow front.
I'd like to keep our weapons intact. We saw what they all can do when healthy and on the same page.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
Winslow is somewhat of an enigma.
First and foremost his most endearing qualities are that he has wonderful hands, and is so very very competitive. So he will always go all out when he's on the field, and he catches just about anything that comes near him. He is a pretty god route runner, and is a good 3rd down option (when you have other ones)
On the negative side, he doesnt block very well. Additionally he sometimes makes bad decisions running routes (he was called for offensive pass interference about 10 times this season, for just leveling a defender before he makes his break). Also, his knee is still an issue, he has surgery every offseason and rarely practices during the week (this leads to the next iffy), and thus leading to mistakes in game plans. He seems to have a lack of football smarts from time to time because he misses practices with that knee. Also, he can be a malcontent from time to time, he has been asking for a new contract from us despite already having a good contract and not really proving to be worth more than what he already makes. And there have been reports of him being very demonstrative in the huddle and with a now 2nd year QB that could be an issue
I know it seems like theres more negatives than positives...but all those things asie its hard to argue with a guy who will generally give you 80 catches, between 6-10 TDs and is fiery. Hes a good player who gives his all. Hes slightly misguided but in all, is worth the risk I think.
Personally, I could take him or leave him. While he is an undeniable talent, we seem to play better without him (when Heiden is healthy). I think a change of scenery would do him good.
I think a first day pick would be a decent value for him (because of his deteriorating knee) and if it were say a 3rd rounder and a decent DB who is young and maybe doesnt fit in ATL's scheme thatd be perfect for me, because thatd fit two needs as we're missing a 3rd rounder and our DB depth isnt all its cracked up to be despite our having a large number of them.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Moss went for a 4th, healthy. Yes, Al is nearing pure insanity, but I think a 3rd is the best yall can hope for.jmo.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
I disagree. He has a ton of talent and a team will take three good years for a 2nd.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
"Moss went for a 4th, healthy. Yes, Al is nearing pure insanity, but I think a 3rd is the best yall can hope for.jmo."
Then go deal with Al Davis and the Raiders.
If you want to play trade games...Joey Galloway was traded for 2 first round picks...So 1 first round pick for KW2 is all ya can hope for 
lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
When healthy,, KW2 is pretty amazing really.. Great hands,, lots of moves and a great mismatch for any defense.
I'd hate to see him go in that regard, but from an attitude standpoint, in 07 he was terrific.. But during a losing season in 08 he was kind of a malcontent. (that might be too strong a word for it, but he didn't appear happy with our GM)
I'd part with him if what we got in return had value to us... at this moment in time, I don't know what that would be.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,151 |
And the difference is that Moss had NO (zero, none, is there anything less than zero?) value in Oakland. He was never going to play another down, and if he would, it wouldnt provide any effort, in Oakland.
Winslow will play in Cleveland if he is there. That drives up his value. Which is why we could ask for higher than a 4th.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
I disagree. He has a ton of talent and a team will take three good years for a 2nd.
I think the deal breaker is when he meets with your new HC, and if they hit it off or not. I think a 2nd is high, but who knows.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,850 |
Honestly, I think Mangini will love him. He is intense and works hard.
1. His issues are that his knee is deteriorating to the point that he really can't be used as a blocker (he was a decent blocking TE in college).
2. He is does not handle the media well at all. He is a bit brash in his character as it is and lets guys in the media goad it out of him (ok, they don't have to goad).
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960 |
Quote:
I think the deal breaker is when he meets with your new HC, and if they hit it off or not. I think a 2nd is high, but who knows
No No,, I think that's very unlikely to be a deal breaker...that's wishful thinking on your part. Winslow is firey,,, I can't help but think that Mangini will love his attitude.. His athletic ability amazing.... so the sticking point, if there is one, will center around his ability to contribute due to health.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
Quote:
I think the deal breaker is when he meets with your new HC, and if they hit it off or not. I think a 2nd is high, but who knows
No No,, I think that's very unlikely to be a deal breaker...that's wishful thinking on your part. Winslow is firey,,, I can't help but think that Mangini will love his attitude.. His athletic ability amazing.... so the sticking point, if there is one, will center around his ability to contribute due to health.
welp, either way, I wish you guys luck.
Take care, and good luck going forward.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,086 |
Just pretending to be surprised. Not sure what is in cards, but I suspect Mangini will need to leverage some picks if possible to get a core corps for his own "vision" thing. His knee still is an issue and will continue to be. If you want to trade, I am sure you would certify it. I would like to keep him, because our Chud as O coordinator didn't show much vision for this weapon. Lot of hype, but saw VERY limited use as far as how used. Square in, middle for first down. Didn't challenge deep well as intended, but usually only tried that late in the game. I characterize him as a guy with "kid" issues and a parent and agent who really helped him to the wrong things too often. His production (JMO, and just saying) has not equalled his own opinion of his ability and worth. Stat leader, but it wasn't enough to win in the ultimate analysis. Shamefully out of control at times with stupid plays and penalties that cut the team's throat several times in the clutch. Savage seemed an issue as well. He certainly held up his end as far as making it worse. Just an old man's opinion as a final analysis: Be careful what you wish for (especially in the media and on public TV, and the rest) as far as trade, wanting out, being willing to leave without a higher regard for the Team; it just might come true. We made him one-dimensional, but being hurt so much hurts the Browns. If he can be traded for something proven, like a solid FA, especially a linebacker and maybe a late 2 or early three, I think Mangini will spend some of the distractions and harvest draftees after the FA. Hope I am wrong, because I really would like to see him a solid offensive scheme that goes after people vertically much more than we did so far. I wish him well, but I think trade rumors are also an effective "message" sent during negotiations. He better wise up if he is staying. I am often wrong, but this is how it might play out IMO. Have one for "Ol' Gluefingers"!  
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 604 |
Personally, I think it's a win win situation for us......if we keep him, then we have a TE that creates an instant mis-match no matter who covers him. I know he can't block, but that is why we have Heiden.....he shouldn't have to block...that is what the OC gets paid to do, figure out ways to makes these kinds of problems work, and if we trade him...then I think we can ask for at least a 2nd RD pick...and depending on the team, maybe even more....Package him up with one of the other players we are trying to dish off to one of the teams in re-build mode, and I think we could possible gain another 1st round pick......if we pair Winslow up with a Stallworth, Davis, DA, BQ....just throwing some names out there.....I'm not saying anything about our QB's, so please don't start on the QB thing again......just trying to give my opinion on both sides of Kellen.....
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Roscoe5319/Marty2.jpg) "Winning is not a some time thing, it's an all the time thing" ....-Lombardi-
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,201 |
Quote:
Seriously though, the impression in the national media is Kellen isnt happy in Cleveland and the fans dont care much for him.
Does he want out?
Hell, I dont even know his contract status. I think he's a talented kid that made his "growing up" mistakes with yall, and a change would be good for him.
As is typically the case, the national media is all wrong and just squawking to hear itself make noise.
Kellen is actually quite well loved here, the only issues anyone tends to have with him is his talking about contracts... and honestly, as long as he doesn't miss time with the team (which he never does) and he doesn't break the bank (which he won't, he's damaged goods with a limited shelf life) then I don't think anyone really cares beyond not wanting to hear about contract demands in the morning paper when the entire team sucked this year.
Unless it is a really sweet deal, or he is more injured and closer to the end of his career than we thought, or Martin Rucker turns into Superman in the next two months, I would doubt that we trade Winslow. He has, bar none, the best hands I've ever seen... the kid is velcro. If he can't catch it, it was more than likely an uncatchable ball. His downside, however, is his lack of enthusiasm in blocking... it just isn't really a part of his game. But... he punks Joey Porter really, really well
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 512 |
Quote:
But... he punks Joey Porter really, really well
I used to have that video saved on my computer, it never got old watching that 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 23 |
Quote:
But... he punks Joey Porter really, really well
Ahhh, yes!! '07 vs Miami. Porter talked the talk, Kellen walked the walk.
Kellen has the best hands in the NFL. In '07, he played the whole season with a torn labrum in his shoulder. Everyone knows about his knee, yet he just doesn't miss any games. He's tough as nails. Rex Ryan, the new Jets head coach, said Winslow is the one person on the Browns he had to take away in his gameplan during his time as the Raven's Defensive Coordinator.
And after watching Braylon drop after drop after drop without seeming to care at all. It is refreshing to see how much pride Kellen takes in his craft, he gets so angry at himself if he drops just one pass. (Which rarely happens)
In times like these, Hal Lebovitz would remind us we didn't have a team for four years.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10
Rookie
|
|
OP
Rookie
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 10 |
Quote:
Quote:
But... he punks Joey Porter really, really well
I used to have that video saved on my computer, it never got old watching that
link please
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,950 |
Hey...Who's that QB....why didnt we resign him....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,015 |
Quote:
We need a quality TE
If you have a need of a receiving TE, then he's one of, if not the best, in the game.
If you need a quality TE, as in terms of being a good teammate, a blocker, and reliable every Sunday, look elsewhere.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,850 |
Quote:
Hey...Who's that QB....why didnt we resign him....
B/c he had an ego... He loved doing all those McDonalds commercials, that he lost his "moxy". 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 434 |
Can't see that video enough.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 750 |
Quote:
Quote:
But... he punks Joey Porter really, really well
I used to have that video saved on my computer, it never got old watching that
Here's a link to watch it some more.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xrrnl_winslow-punks-porter_fun
Go Irish!
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kellen Winslow
|
|
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/6WV79RV/Browns-Coach-Sig.png)