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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090121/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_guantanamo_6WASHINGTON – The new Obama administration circulated a draft executive order Wednesday that calls for closing the controversial detention center at Guantanamo Bay within a year and halting any war crimes trials in the meantime. Closing the facility in Cuba "would further the national security and foreign policy interests of the United States and the interests of justice," read the draft prepared for the new president's signature. While some of the detainees currently held at Guantanamo would be released, others would be transferred elsewhere and later put on trial under terms to be determined. It was not known when Obama intended to issue the order. He has been a longtime critic of the Bush administration's decision to maintain the detention facility, which was opened after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the draft. There are an estimated 245 detainees currently held at Guantanamo, out of some 800 who were sent there during the Bush administration. The order circulated as the judge in one war crimes case agreed to Obama's request to suspend proceedings pending a 120-day review. Army Col. Stephen Henley issued the ruling Wednesday after a brief hearing at the U.S. base in Cuba. The defendants opposed the delay. All have said they want to plead guilty to charges that carry a potential death sentence. It was not immediately clear whether the request to halt proceedings was designed as a precursor to a more extensive executive order. The draft order calls for a systematic review of the cases of each of the detainees, to determine which among them can be released and which cannot. "It is in the interests of the United States to review whether and how such individuals can and should be prosecuted," it says. The facility at Guantanamo Bay has long been criticized by critics of the former Bush administration at home, as well as by other governments overseas, as a black eye for the United States. The administration established it early in the war on terror, contending that those held there were not entitled to the customary rights that prisoners in he United States enjoy, or to the protections of the Geneva Conventions that cover war prisoners. The draft order notes that some of those held at the site have been there for more than six years, and most for at least four years. The draft states that "the detention facilities at Guantanamo for individuals covered by this order shall be closed as soon as practicable, and no later than one year from the date of this order." At the Pentagon, military leaders were preparing for the order that spokesman Bryan Whitman said would begin a "comprehensive review of policies and procedures related to detainee activities." "The president has clearly made his intentions well known," Whitman said. "And he has taken the first steps with respect to his direction to order a pause to military commission proceedings." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
I hope its never...
My guess is the ones released will go straight back to Afghanistan to continue fighting. That's how they got there in the first place.
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The under is probably the safe bet.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
I believe over 60 have been caught fighting against us already.
My niece started the Kent State office of Amnesty International. It's her contention that no one in Gitmo is there because of fighting on the battlefields. I find that highly unlikely. 
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It is always a sad day when you realize you have a family member who is really stupid.
I have a few of those.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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It is always a sad day when you realize you have a family member who is really stupid.
I have a few of those.
 Actually she is brilliant. She is just misguided.
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
I believe over 60 have been caught fighting against us already.
My niece started the Kent State office of Amnesty International. It's her contention that no one in Gitmo is there because of fighting on the battlefields. I find that highly unlikely.
It would be nice if somebody had "evidence rather than inuendo" to the contrary, wouldn't it?
Seems that "IF" this could be proven, we could try them. But we haven't/can't as of yet.
So since we haven't/can't, why would you believe otherwise? Hopefully we'll see the transperancy that Obama promised and find out how much, or as I suspect, how little if any evidence other than inuendo that actually exists on the suspects being detained there.
Knowing is half the battle. And we don't....
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Oh, I know...just like with mine.....not dumb, dumb.......just stupid....like misguided.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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The defendants opposed the delay. All have said they want to plead guilty to charges that carry a potential death sentence.
So let me get this straight, the defendants in Gitmo want to plead guilty but now they can't and may be released?
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
I believe over 60 have been caught fighting against us already.
My niece started the Kent State office of Amnesty International. It's her contention that no one in Gitmo is there because of fighting on the battlefields. I find that highly unlikely.
It would be nice if somebody had "evidence rather than inuendo" to the contrary, wouldn't it?
Seems that "IF" this could be proven, we could try them. But we haven't/can't as of yet.
So since we haven't/can't, why would you believe otherwise? Hopefully we'll see the transperancy that Obama promised and find out how much, or as I suspect, how little if any evidence other than inuendo that actually exists on the suspects being detained there.
Knowing is half the battle. And we don't....
What exactly are we going to try them for? they are terrorist on foreign soil. They are not prisoners of war, and I don't know if we can actually prosecute them.
There are issues of national security. If you want to bring them to court here they have certain rights. disclosure of sensitive information may be needed in order to give them a public trail. Also, if they are found not guilty, what do we do with them? Many of their own governments don't want them back (that worries me, how about you?) so we will be stuck with them here.
I will go back to my original beliefs. If they aren't high value targets just kill them on the spot. I wouldn't give them the chance to surrender. If they are in terrorist training camps, wipe out the whole camp. I really don't give a damn about their rights. Terrorist have been fighting against us for years with us being very cautious. These people might be fighting or plotting against us in foreign countries but they are not representatives of those countries. If they are indeed soldiers of a country then they should get all rights afforded to them by the Geneva Conventions. Otherwise, bombs away.
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[ detention center at Guantanamo Bay within a year and halting any war crimes trials in the meantime.
Closing the facility in Cuba
So are we just closing the Gitmo detention facility or are we closing the whole facility?? Gitmo is a Naval base isnt it,that has been there since long before 9/11,right??
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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What exactly are we going to try them for? they are terrorist on foreign soil. They are not prisoners of war, and I don't know if we can actually prosecute them.
Look, Bush had all of these years to try them at military tribunals. Wonder why it wasn't done?
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There are issues of national security. If you want to bring them to court here they have certain rights. disclosure of sensitive information may be needed in order to give them a public trail.
Sorry, but that trump card has lost its value. All you would be trying them for is something that happenned "in one instance, years ago". What would discussing a battle or incident from 2004 have to do with national security? But it's a nice catch phrase that, in the past, let people hide everything they didn't want the public to see. But I think that time is over.....
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Also, if they are found not guilty, what do we do with them? Many of their own governments don't want them back (that worries me, how about you?) so we will be stuck with them here.
And can you explain to me what that has to do with wheather they're innocent or guilty of anything?
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I will go back to my original beliefs. If they aren't high value targets just kill them on the spot. I wouldn't give them the chance to surrender. If they are in terrorist training camps, wipe out the whole camp. I really don't give a damn about their rights.
Could that very thing be why they don't care about ours? We tried to run that part of the world by installing corrupt rulers, overtrhrowing their existing governments, all in the name of what was good for the U.S. Now? They aren't "our friends". Do you expect that to change?
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Terrorist have been fighting against us for years with us being very cautious. These people might be fighting or plotting against us in foreign countries but they are not representatives of those countries. If they are indeed soldiers of a country then they should get all rights afforded to them by the Geneva Conventions. Otherwise, bombs away.
I guess you missed "shock and awe". And forgot about our 20 ton bunker busters. We've been trying that all along. Why would we do that if we "really WANTED prisoners"? The whole idea of bombing places is to kill them. Or did I miss something?
Problem being, it doesn't always work. I guess this thing must not have been thought through very well in the beginning, huh? And as I suspected, someone else is left holding the bag to clean up the mess.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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We are not closing the base, just the detention facility. I believe we have had a base there since around the turn of the last century. It is a real beautiful place.
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We are not closing the base, just the detention facility. I believe we have had a base there since around the turn of the last century. It is a real beautiful place.
I saw it on Bad Boys II 
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
I believe over 60 have been caught fighting against us already.
My niece started the Kent State office of Amnesty International. It's her contention that no one in Gitmo is there because of fighting on the battlefields. I find that highly unlikely.
It would be nice if somebody had "evidence rather than inuendo" to the contrary, wouldn't it?
Seems that "IF" this could be proven, we could try them. But we haven't/can't as of yet.
So since we haven't/can't, why would you believe otherwise? Hopefully we'll see the transperancy that Obama promised and find out how much, or as I suspect, how little if any evidence other than inuendo that actually exists on the suspects being detained there.
Knowing is half the battle. And we don't....
http://www.nationalreview.com/lowry/lowry200506140758.asp
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090113/ts_nm/us_usa_guantanamo
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Rich Lowry is author of Legacy: Paying the Price for the Clinton Years. Yeah, nothing slanted about this guy. So let me get this straight. There were 750 sent to Gitmo, under the previous administration, 250 were released. And basicly, Biden said the same thing................ Quote:
Biden says everyone should be let go from Gitmo — except, in a crucial caveat, “Those we have reason to keep, keep.” Ah, there’s the rub.
So basicly, you're complaining about a continuation of the Bush policies at yet a different location?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Look, Bush had all of these years to try them at military tribunals. Wonder why it wasn't done?
I think over half have been set free or been in front of tribunals. I don't have the facts committed to memory but I will find them.
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Sorry, but that trump card has lost its value. All you would be trying them for is something that happenned "in one instance, years ago". What would discussing a battle or incident from 2004 have to do with national security? But it's a nice catch phrase that, in the past, let people hide everything they didn't want the public to see. But I think that time is over.....
It goes way beyond that in many instances. They can get into things like our information gathering which is classified. They can also get into things like who turned on who, which can damage ongoing informational gathering.
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nd can you explain to me what that has to do with wheather they're innocent or guilty of anything?
If the country of origin refuses to take them back, we will have to still release them. Where are they going to go if no one will take them? There is no way any US court will let them stay in one of our prisons.
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Could that very thing be why they don't care about ours? We tried to run that part of the world by installing corrupt rulers, overtrhrowing their existing governments, all in the name of what was good for the U.S. Now? They aren't "our friends". Do you expect that to change?
That is how things have worked across the entire planet from the beginning of time. We have treated them no differently then anyone else. The same goes for their fore fathers as well. Humans are scum.
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I guess you missed "shock and awe". And forgot about our 20 ton bunker busters. We've been trying that all along. Why would we do that if we "really WANTED prisoners"? The whole idea of bombing places is to kill them. Or did I miss something?
Whenever possible I believe we do want to take high value targets because of the ability to get intelligence. I don't think our people on the ground want to kill anything that moves just because they are enemies. It would be much better for us if we didn't let them surrender. No need for Gitmo, no worries about them living to fight again. The biggest problem would be that our soldiers would probably be forever damaged knowing they killed people who were no longer fighting back.
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I'm not complaining about anything Biden said in that article. I also never claimed that Rich Lowery (editor of The National Review ) isn't a partisan. I just gave you two articles mentioning the return of Gitmo detainees on the battlefield. You questioned what I said so I quickly looked up saying that it happened.
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You just posed logical questions to your own proposal. Kill them all. But damage our troops?
It is a fine line to walk. And as I said earlier, in an article YOU posted, 750 were sent to Gitmo. 250 have been released. One third. And as outlined, Biden is saying pretty much the same thing.
Not, "Let them all lose". But close Gitmo. Yet keep those who they really have reasonable suspicion of detained elsewhere. Now this is coming from YOUR source that you gave. You know, the guy who wrote the Clinton bashing book?
So I'm really just a little confused of what it is that upsets you? Following the same path as Bush but at a different location?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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I just gave you two articles mentioning the return of Gitmo detainees on the battlefield. You questioned what I said so I quickly looked up saying that it happened.
I questioned if that's "why they were originoly held"? If they had "proof" of it to detain them in the first place?
Naturaly, if you detain me for years for something I DIDN'T do to begin with?
I'm probably gonna try to kill your azz too! I mean, can you blame them?
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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It is my hatred of those people that wants to kill them at any costs. I know that I could never do it myself, and that I seriously doubt many can. I really don't want to damage any of our young me psychologically.
As far as closing Gitmo goes...
We are somewhat shielded having them over there. Once we bring them into the US a whole new range of problems begin. The best idea would be to let the Afganies deal with them. The thing is instead of hearing about two or three people being waterboarded we would have massive amounts of torture going on even the minor players.
You can give it a rest already when it comes to Lowery. I am not using anything he said in the article as proof with the exception of stating prisoners were recaptured or killed. There was a second link from Yahoo that goes into more detail. I think you just keep on with Lowery because it deflects from my original point. What does him being a Clinton hater have to do with people being recaptured anyway?
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U wanna know what bothers me Pit ... well I'm gonna tell U anyhow .. *L* ...
U act like we just went and rounded people up and brought them there for the hell of it ... IMO there is a reason they were detained .. and I could care less if it was heresay and unproven inneuendo .. I COULD CARE LESS becasue of the # of americans killed BY THERE KIND before 9/11 ... on 9/11 and since 9/11 by PURELY TERRORIST ACTS ..
If we detained all 750 of them on heresay and it saved just 1 American life .. I AM FINE WITH IT ... and I GAURANTEE U that SOON ... VERY VERY SOON someone released will be responsible in some sort for the death of Americans .... and that is what bothers me ...
PS. as I said before ... if they were detained they were detained for a reason ... SOMEONE GOT some type of concrete info on them from what is considered a credible source ... and that is fine by me ... they can rot there for all I care .. and i am sure there are some innocent people in that group .. but there are also WAY MORE GUILTY ONES WE HAVE NONE OF THE TYPES OF PROOF LIBERALS LIKE U WOULD NEED TO HOLD THEM ... they will be released ... and why?? CAUSE THEY KNOW HOS TO PLAY OUR PRESS AND POLITICIANS ... its as simple as that ..
P - your wasting your time ... liberals like Pit know it all ... and when one of the released is caught in a terrorist act and responsible for the deaths of americans .. they'll all say it was because they were bitter and driven to it by there stay at Club Gitmo ..
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I'm counting on just flat out killing them next time around. 
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Where would you draw the line on the Geneva Conventions (I know this is something that experts have been arguing for years)?
I think P made the point that they don't wear the uniform of a foreign country, so should they be afforded the guarantees of the Geneva Convention? I think one of the problems is that they don't have a state sovereignty which may be threatened as collateral to numerous human rights violations.
I know that you may make the counterargument that the US has made alleged HR violations at Gitmo and that nobody has threatened our state sovereignty, but I just want to hear your take.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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Pit, you stated that we didn't have any proof of them being guilty. DId you read the entire article? It states the defendants were against the delay Obama put in place because they wanted to plead guilty. Seems to me that if they are wanting to plead guilty, it's pretty cut and dry, no?
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... SOMEONE GOT some type of concrete info on them from what is considered a credible source ...
Hopefully it wasn't the same "credibale sources" that we used as a reason for invading Iraq. That's the problem here Diam. Wheather you wish to care or not.
You can't say on one hand how wrong we were about WMD in Iraq, then on the other hand use the word "intelligence" in our findings.
The world is watching. And despite what some believe, we can't conquer the world. Hitler already tried that.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
Perhaps you should read more into the "closing of Gitmo.""
They are not going to be closing Gitmo and releasing everyone! They are going to investigate everyone's case and determine what to do with them beyond that.. If there's a case that can be brought against them, they will be tried.. If there is nothing on them, they will be released.. They are not going to be releasing everyone.. The people determined to do harm to the U.S. will continue to be detained.. It could be all of them.. or some of them..
People need to stop being completely reactionist to these news items.. They hear that they are closing Gitmo and think that everyone in that facility is going to be released back into the wild.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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everyone in that facility is going to be released back into the wild.
I was going to say we should release them by putting them into a row boat and giving them a good push off but then I realized they would just end up in Miami
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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everyone in that facility is going to be released back into the wild.
I was going to say we should release them by putting them into a row boat and giving them a good push off but then I realized they would just end up in Miami
KING
Well I don't think they'd make it.. I think most Cubans launch from the Northern sde of Cuba...
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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Pit...all I will say is this. I honestly don't believe we are running a gulag down there and just put these people down there for no reason.
I am sure all of these people were on Military Intel lists, FBI, CIA.
They are pretty good at what they do......sometimes you have to let them do what they do.
From a legal standpoint......nope, most would beat the charge. and all want the death penalty applied because they know that would play in to their favor at this point.
Burden of proof can be a beach....I am sorry we will be letting some of these people go.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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People need to stop being completely reactionist to these news items.. They hear that they are closing Gitmo and think that everyone in that facility is going to be released back into the wild.
I didn't realize it was closed, or closing soon. I DID know that Obama wants it closed - but has the final decision been made?
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I am with you 200% here. The people that are in Gitmo deserve to be there and have zero sympathy from me.
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The US has plenty of other detention camps. If these people can't be released they will probably just be relocated and Gitmo still closed so Obama can have his "win".
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I am with you 200% here. The people that are in Gitmo deserve to be there and have zero sympathy from me.
The problem is not that they deserve to be there or not.. it's just how they are placed and kept there.. It is going against what everyone takes for granted here.. Just remember that liek any prison.. not everyone there deserves to be there.. there's bound to be a few that are not suppose to be there, but are stuck because they are not being heard because the lines of justice are being blurred by propoganda stating that everyone there is a terrorist.
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
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What do U want to make the over/under on how long it is before one of the folks released is involved in killing americans??? ...
By the same logic, we should never release anybody who has ever been in jail.
One of them is likely to kill somebody at some point.
~Lyuokdea
~Lyuokdea
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I didn't realize it was closed, or closing soon. I DID know that Obama wants it closed - but has the final decision been made?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090122/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_suspected_terrorists_20
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama began overhauling U.S. treatment of terror suspects Thursday, signing orders to close the Guantanamo Bay detention center, review military war crimes trials and ban the harshest interrogation methods.
"We intend to win this fight. We're going to win it on our terms," Obama said as he signed three executive orders and a presidential directive in the Oval Office. Obama explained each order before he put his pen to them and occasionally solicited input from White House counsel Greg Craig to make sure he was describing them correctly.
With his action, Obama started changing how the United States prosecutes and questions al-Qaida, Taliban or other foreign fighters who pose a threat to Americans — and overhauling America's image abroad, battered by accusations of the use of torture and the indefinite detention of suspects at the Guantanamo prison in Cuba.
"The message that we are sending the world is that the United States intends to prosecute the ongoing struggle against violence and terrorism and we are going to do so vigilantly and we are going to do so effectively and we are going to do so in a manner that is consistent with our values and our ideals," the president said.
The centerpiece order would close the much-maligned Guantanamo facility within a year, a complicated process with many unanswered questions that was nonetheless a key campaign promise of Obama's. The administration already has suspended trials for terrorist suspects at Guantanamo for 120 days pending a review of the military tribunals.
In the other actions, Obama:
_Created a task force that would have 30 days to recommend policies on handling terror suspects who are detained in the future. Specifically, the group would look at where those detainees should be housed since Guantanamo is closing.
_Required all U.S. personnel to follow the U.S. Army Field Manual while interrogating detainees. The manual explicitly prohibits threats, coercion, physical abuse and waterboarding, a technique that creates the sensation of drowning and has been termed a form of torture by critics. However, a Capitol Hill aide says that the administration also is planning a study of more aggressive interrogation methods that could be added to the Army manual — which would create a significant loophole to Obama's action Thursday.
"We believe that the Army Field Manual reflects the best judgment of our military, that we can abide by a rule that says we don't torture, but that we can still effectively obtain the intelligence that we need," Obama said. He said his action reflects an understanding that "we are willing to observe core standards of conduct, not just when it's easy, but also when it's hard."
_Directed the Justice Department to review the case of Qatar native Ali al-Marri, who is the only enemy combatant currently being held on U.S. soil. The review will look at whether al-Marri has the right to sue the government for his freedom, a right the Supreme Court already has given to Guantanamo detainees. The directive will ask the high court for a stay in al-Marri's appeals case while the review is ongoing. The government says al-Marri is an al-Qaida sleeper agent.
An estimated 245 men are being held at the U.S. naval base in Cuba, most of whom have been detained for years without being charged with a crime. Among the sticky issues the Obama administration has to resolve are where to put those detainees — whether back in their home countries or at other federal detention centers — and how to prosecute some of them for war crimes.
In his first Oval Office signing ceremony, Obama was surrounded by retired senior military leaders. He described them as outstanding Americans who have defended the country — and its ideals.
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"My signature line goes here."
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Hopefully it wasn't the same "credibale sources" that we used as a reason for invading Iraq. That's the problem here Diam. Wheather you wish to care or not.
Once wrong always wrong. Right Pit? If it has anything to do with Bush, its a lie...oops...sorry...falsehood.
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You can't say on one hand how wrong we were about WMD in Iraq, then on the other hand use the word "intelligence" in our findings.
The world is watching. And despite what some believe, we can't conquer the world. Hitler already tried that.
 You love that "Hitler" one don't you. On what page of the "How to Give a Liberal a Bad Name" do you folks find this crap?
I would love to put a fence up at the very edge of the Grand Canyon and place George Bush on the safe side. It would be fun to watch you struggle with the decision on whether to jump it just to be on the other side.
"My signature line goes here."
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465 |
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The people that are in Gitmo deserve to be there
And you know this how?
It staggers the imagination that so many who don't trust the government with their tax money are content with the idea of a secretive military prison that doesn't follow standard trial law. None of us have anything but a vague idea of who is in there or what they did to get there. We're just told that it houses 'terrorists'.
There are some fairly vicious animals in there, and we know who some are...but the whole idea of a clandestine system developed by the most incompetent administration in American history, a terror group themselves? No, thanks. I'm very pleased that Obama stuck to his word on this, although I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop...I can imagine when all is said and done there will still be plenty of loopholes that water it down.
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