|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/01/cleveland_browns_acknowledge_s.htmlCleveland Browns acknowledge staff reductions by Mary Kay Cabot / Plain Dealer Reporter Wednesday January 21, 2009, 5:04 PM BEREA -- The Browns have laid off 18 people in the last two days, including Director of Media Information Ken Mather, clevelandbrowns.com staff writer Steve King and Director of Team Operations Brendan Rowe, a source close to the situation told The Plain Dealer. The Browns confirmed that layoffs occurred, but declined to reveal how many or who. "It was a very challenging day for the Browns organization and it's important to acknowledge the contributions of those who are currently with the Browns as well as those that are leaving,'' Browns President Mike Keenan said in an email. "We are not immune to the current economic climate and in order to ensure that our business operates in an honest, efficient and realistic manner, we were faced with extremely difficult decisions." By the time the Browns are done with their layoffs, it could be as many as 40 people, a source said. =============================== This is absurd. On top of what happened this past season, I'm going to find it very hard to even think about dropping a dime towards this team this next year. No hats/shirts/tickets etc. It's absolutely ridiculous that we can pay millions of dollars for people to go away, but can't find the money to pay some office works a small percentage of that... give me a break Apparently years of sellouts and advertising revenue aren't enough.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,025 Likes: 1 |
maybe they should lay off the team instead of the people behind the scenes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
maybe they should lay off the team instead of the people behind the scenes.
Maybe they laid off Braylon for all his dropped balls..
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](http://i.imgur.com/FUKyw.png) "Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 1 |
it's not just Cleveland. other sports franchises are doing the same. for example
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 661
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 661 |
This is absurd. On top of what happened this past season, I'm going to find it
It's absolutely ridiculous that we can pay millions of dollars for people to go away, but can't find the money to pay some office works a small percentage of that... give me a break
I agree with you 110% on this.
This is bs.
How in the world can you fix something...
If you don't know how it's supposed to work?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,943
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,943 |
Like Blue said we are not the only team doing this.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,844 Likes: 639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,844 Likes: 639 |
Wow, that's pretty sad. I think priorities are out of order across the board, unless these people did virtually nothing.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
How? We sell out every year! even tho we have no team on the field! How can they do this? I feel for those that got the shaft! Boo Bah Hum Bug! 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
How? We sell out every year! even tho we have no team on the field! How can they do this? I feel for those that got the shaft! Boo Bah Hum Bug!
The Browns and other companies are doing this acrossed the board and blaming the current economy on it.. I doubt all of it is because the businesses are troubled, but the fact that they can do it and get away with it..
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
THey can get away with it for now. Until so many people are unemployed that no one can afford their product....
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Quote:
How? We sell out every year! even tho we have no team on the field! How can they do this? I feel for those that got the shaft! Boo Bah Hum Bug!
The Browns and other companies are doing this acrossed the board and blaming the current economy on it.. I doubt all of it is because the businesses are troubled, but the fact that they can do it and get away with it..
But that make's it right? This country has gone soo far off the map, its pathetic! So just because the uperclass didnt make there normal MILLION's! makes this right? I will not be able to get the new tax cuts....because I make more, But do you hear me complaining? ? No! But since I faLL under the wealthy I have no say!...I dont want it! I want it for those that need it! And for a company that makes milloion's and let's those that dont go! WTH!? Sorry too all..just a little upset over all this, If im wrong then please explain to me why? thankyou.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124 |
Have you guys seen the Browns 2008 P & L sheet, or based the '08 net income vs. '06 or '07? Simply asking, since you seem quick to condemn them for how they run their internal operations, I figure you may have actual knowledge of their books.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
No I havent...how does that swade my opinion? not trying to seem rude.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
Have you guys seen the Browns 2008 P & L sheet, or based the '08 net income vs. '06 or '07? Simply asking, since you seem quick to condemn them for how they run their internal operations, I figure you may have actual knowledge of their books.
Good post.
Some people seem to think that if you take in millions, you must be profiting millions. Sorry folks, that is not necessarily the case. Until someone can put out the balance sheet of the Browns, we might just want to hold our words for fear of looking stupid.
Businesses need to make a profit. If there is no profit, the business doesn't last long.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821 |
Quote:
How? We sell out every year! even tho we have no team on the field! How can they do this? I feel for those that got the shaft! Boo Bah Hum Bug!
How??? Come on man...Insurance costs go up, utilities go up, taxes go up, all the costs of business have gone up....what Lerner knows is cost of tickets can't go up.
The NFL has a problem...they are hoping they don't have to lower ticket prices.
Nobody in any industry wants to lower prices, but it is just around the corner.
Deflation isn't far away...and that is a real problem.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
Quote:
Quote:
Have you guys seen the Browns 2008 P & L sheet, or based the '08 net income vs. '06 or '07? Simply asking, since you seem quick to condemn them for how they run their internal operations, I figure you may have actual knowledge of their books.
Good post.
Some people seem to think that if you take in millions, you must be profiting millions. Sorry folks, that is not necessarily the case. Until someone can put out the balance sheet of the Browns, we might just want to hold our words for fear of looking stupid.
Businesses need to make a profit. If there is no profit, the business doesn't last long.
Let's say all 40 people make 100k a year counting benefits...
They trimmed 4M off their overhead. Tell me how that makes a difference when they just paid people MILLIONS to go away.
Last edited by YepTheBrownsRule; 01/21/09 09:03 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 1
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,246 Likes: 1 |
I think, and this is just the pessimist in me, that you are going to see alot more of this, this year. This economy is tanking and everyone is taking a hit. You are looking at this from the past as a perspective, I would surmise that you need to look to what may happen later this year. What if attendance falls, what if profits from merchandise falls, what if ad revenues tank . . . even beer sales are down . . . people ALWAYS have money for beer and cigs . . I may be way off, if so, so be it, I am just saying . . . this economy SUCKS! foxnews story on the beer slump
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Another good post that some people, employees, don't seem to understand.
However, I don't see deflation as a problem. With all the money our gov't. is printing and throwing around, I see hyper inflation as our big concern. We might see deflation for a short period, but once people start spending, combined with all the money congress is throwing around, be prepared for 10% to 15% inflation.
I read a fair amount. I take what I read and put it into todays world. I've been right too many times for my own comfort. (and that's not bragging or gloating - if anything it's a sad scenario where my pessimistic views on the economy have come true)
People may want to listen to R.E.M.'s song "Its the end of the world".......as we know it.
Why? Because it is. And I'm not a doom and gloomer, it's just that the proof is in the pudding. I grew up, and my parents grew up, with every belief that they/I would be better off than their/my parents. My parents were right. I was right for a few years. That time is over.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
I know what you are saying, But I just cant comprehend why?
How much is enough? Not trying to start a fight about economics, just...is this where our nation is headed?...if so verry sad imo. Where has all the good old fasion people gone?
When a person's wellbeing was worth more then a dollar?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Have you guys seen the Browns 2008 P & L sheet, or based the '08 net income vs. '06 or '07? Simply asking, since you seem quick to condemn them for how they run their internal operations, I figure you may have actual knowledge of their books.
Good post.
Some people seem to think that if you take in millions, you must be profiting millions. Sorry folks, that is not necessarily the case. Until someone can put out the balance sheet of the Browns, we might just want to hold our words for fear of looking stupid.
Businesses need to make a profit. If there is no profit, the business doesn't last long.
Let's say all 40 people make 100k a year counting benefits...
They trimmed 400k off their overhead. Tell me how that makes a difference when they just paid people MILLIONS to go away.
Don't know. Hve you seen the books? Maybe the fact that they had to pay people millions to go away has to do with it (contracts and such) It stinks no matter what, don't get me wrong.
Maybe they were overstaffed to begin with.
Maybe it won't end with 40 positions.
Maybe the investment needs to show some sort of return.
I don't know, just saying that we can't/shouldn't gripe about how someone runs their business unless we are privvy to the details.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Mabe it has to do with the allmighty dollar? The upermanagment didnt get their bonus?..Not trying to start a war here 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
You're right... I'm sure Randy's pockets hurt.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
this economy SUCKS!
LOL how bout ya Bush! lol 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
Mabe it has to do with the allmighty dollar? The upermanagment didnt get their bonus?..Not trying to start a war here
May very well be, I don't know. I don't own the Browns (unfortunately). Just because millions come in does not mean millions are profited.
Imagine having a $500 million dollar business. And at the end of the year, you realized a scant $1 million if profit. That's a hell of a profit - $1 million dollars. But it's only a tenth of a percent.
Now, you stated you won't be eligible for Obama's tax cut - I believe you're single, so let's say you make over $75,000 per year.
If your work expenses were even 99% of your income, (say parking, gas costs, uniforms, etc) that would leave you with a profit of $750 per year. Not very much, is it? However, all I hear is "shotty makes $75,000 per year, he's a rich summagun".
Does it matter if your gross is $75,000 or $500 million if the return isn't worth it? No.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124 |
Quote:
I don't know, just saying that we can't/shouldn't gripe about how someone runs their business unless we are privvy to the details.
Well said, along with Peen's thoughts.
Not stating that this is the case, but the media can also deviate stories into something that they simply are not...I'll use this one as an example.
Media - Browns lay off 22 people
Questions not addressed in story:
Since this is the initial beginning of the offseason, do the Browns typically lay off "seasonal" positions at this time (which may have not been so magnified in economies past)?
Were some simply dead weight, or underacheiving?
In the case of those underachieving, are the Browns in the process of hiring back those positions?
Did the recent (within past year?) addition of "Team President" make others expendable? How was the salary accounted for in their payroll/taxes/benefits?
Are they responsible for any bonds that may have been issued to build any portion of the stadium, or renovate the existing Berea facility? The bond market blew some gaskets this year. (Personally, I had a few months where my bonds where 400-500% over budget) How may they be addressing this in '09 (if indeed they have some on their books)?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821 |
Good post by you too....and deflation is what they are trying to prevent. Deflation is far worse than inflation.
Shotty....it's not where we are headed....it's where we are and just don't want to admit and face.
Our money is headed towards worthless and we have no real way to fix the problem since we as a nation don't produce goods anymore.
Producing goods is the only way to grow the pie. Otherwise it leaves us shuffling the same money around....just like a game of Monopoly.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 30,436 Likes: 448 |
Quote:
You're right... I'm sure Randy's pockets hurt.
Ah, I see. You're one that feels they are entitled to cap someone else's earnings simply because "they have enough". Got it.
Little life tip for you: If you look at others and think " they have enough, they don't need more" you will forever be pessimistic, because there will always be someone richer than you.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,758 |
Quote:
Mabe it has to do with the allmighty dollar? The upermanagment didnt get their bonus?..Not trying to start a war here
Microsoft is laying people off too..
"Don't be burdened by regrets or make your failures an obsession or become embittered or possessed by ruined hopes"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
all I hear is "shotty makes $75,000 per year, he's a rich summagun".
LMAO! I wish I was rich ...But yes I do make over that, and Yes you are right, I quess what im getting at is there has to be a better way? what that is im not sure  And I think you know me well enough to know that I just want whats best for all? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,176 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,176 Likes: 136 |
Ok,, is it just me or does this seem rather odd..
Companies like Eaton for instance just announced lay offs of 5200 folks. The reason they offer up is less than expected sales revenue, dwindling demand for thier products (many of which are tied to the auto and truck industries).. so all that make sense..
Where was the revenue loss for the Browns..
Sold out stadium every sunday at home, advertising dollars might have dropped a little I suppose. All of thier luxery boxes are sold except a few. There is still a waiting line for seasons tickets.
maybe sales of shirts and hats and other Browns gear is down a little... but that's not something I would think is a HUGE revenue stream.
So outside of some advertising dollars and some merchandise sales dips... where is the significant enough loss to require a dump of 30 or more folks.
Unless I'm missing my guess, this is an excuse to clean out some folks that weren't thought highly of. This may sound rude, but kinda cleaning house of least productive folks.
Just wondering, but this sounds really odd to me.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032
Dawg Talker
|
|
OP
Dawg Talker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,032 |
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Quote:
Good post by you too....and deflation is what they are trying to prevent. Deflation is far worse than inflation.
Shotty....it's not where we are headed....it's where we are and just don't want to admit and face.
Our money is headed towards worthless and we have no real way to fix the problem since we as a nation don't produce goods anymore.
Producing goods is the only way to grow the pie. Otherwise it leaves us shuffling the same money around....just like a game of Monopoly.
Wow ! you are right, but how do we do it? not being an azz  But we as a country need to stick together and do it! ...Now am I to say how? Now! havent the slighest idea... But we do need ot some how. Okay im a lil drunk and yamming on here ..sorry 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,124 |
Quote:
Where was the revenue loss for the Browns..
Doesn't necessarily have to be revenue loss but perhaps an increase in fixed and variable expenses.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,612 Likes: 500
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,612 Likes: 500 |
No Craps Given
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
Where was the revenue loss for the Browns..
Sold out stadium every sunday at home, advertising dollars might have dropped a little I suppose. All of thier luxery boxes are sold except a few. There is still a waiting line for seasons tickets.
maybe sales of shirts and hats and other Browns gear is down a little... but that's not something I would think is a HUGE revenue stream.
So outside of some advertising dollars and some merchandise sales dips... where is the significant enough loss to require a dump of 30 or more folks.
Unless I'm missing my guess, this is an excuse to clean out some folks that weren't thought highly of. This may sound rude, but kinda cleaning house of least productive folks.
Just wondering, but this sounds really odd to me.
Bingo! that is what im wondering also
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,176 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,176 Likes: 136 |
Quote:
Doesn't necessarily have to be revenue loss for an increase in fixed and variable expenses.
What could have gone up that much to cause a bigg enought increase to have to lay off 40 folks
Facility costs,,, gas, electric, water, janatorial supplies, toilet paper..... Maybe building maintenence.....
if the average salary was 40k,, that's about 1.2 million plus payroll taxes and insurance and benefits. Total maybe 1.8 or 1.9 million annually.... 2 million tops.
No No,,, I don't think this was about money,, I think this was cleaning out the least productive folks...... JMO
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 34
Rookie
|
|
Rookie
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 34 |
FWIW,
This guy I know who works for the Browns told me back in early december this was coming. He said it would be masked as the economy, but the heart of the matter that there is to many "chiefs" who seem to answer to no one. if they want to get something done, they are bumped to three or four people for approval.
the layers of managment are ridiculous.
The orange 99 cent stickers will return one day if the fun nazi's allow it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 38,613 Likes: 821 |
Quote:
There is still a waiting line for seasons tickets.
I don't think that is the case today.
And.....business owners, if they are good, have to act before if it critical.
If you are waiting to cut costs until you actually are losing money, you are doomed.
A good executive sees where things are trending and acts before it actually hits.....that is what they are paid to do....protect the company.
Not always a popular position,.
Nobody wants to lay people ,off.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,274 Likes: 2 |
heart of the matter that there is to many "chiefs" who seem to answer to no one.
Ah Ha!!!!!!!!!! There we go!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,844 Likes: 639
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,844 Likes: 639 |
Are the Browns incorporated? If so, I could also see some sort of financial decision loyalty to the shareholders.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Browns layoff 18 people, possibly
22 more...
|
|
