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It has nothing to do with "taking sides". This isn't a sporting event, although some seem to think it is. And, it isn't about giving him a couple of years. We KNOW what he WANTS to do, he's told us. There are just some of us who hope he doesn't get to do what he wants. Therefore, his failures make for his success in our eyes. 
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j/c
I have no idea why people would want our president to fail. Is it just to say, "I told you so?"
While many people may not agree with his election or his ideas, why would you want our leader to fail?
That's like wanting Mangini to fail. Someone may not like the hiring because of his philosophies, his tendencies and defense he runs. But what the hell would you want him to fail for? It just sets us back even more.
![[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]](http://pic18.picturetrail.com/VOL905/3216203/6567769/349897772.jpg) "The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Talk about not comprehending what most people have been saying. 
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Sorry Jules, I don't have time to read every post on every thread.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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Talk about not comprehending what most people have been saying.
I'm comprehending it, I just don't get it.
IF his policies, in fact, DO work, why should we complain? Our country will have crawled out of this sinkhole our former president put us in and we will prosper?
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You are right, you don't get a great many things, which is why I tend to ignore 90% of your posts. 
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I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
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All Pro
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It has everything to do with taking sides... thats all anyone does. They look at it in such finite terms. Like there is only one way to skin a cat. How do you know Obama's policies will fail when 65% of them are NEW ideas? Point me to something where it shows putting liberalism or conservatism in a country makes it fail? Show me where all democrats have failed and all republicans have got everything correct? Someone before you posted (not sure as I'm typing this) said to the effect: "It is never good to spend your way out of a recession." When in fact if you look at how we got out of the great depression... thats all we did was spend.
Truth is we know very little about what goes on in Washington. We're stuck trying to guess who is working for the majority of Americans. Thats what waterdawg I believe was trying to say...
"I'm a mog. Half man, half dog. I'm my own best friend."
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Especially when they upheld a "liberal spender" for the last eight years.
Don't be decieved Damon. They don't really care about "spending" per say. But who is getting the help from that spending. Fighting wars? That's "okay spending". Actually helping stabalize our own economy and country? Not "okay speding".
They just pick and choose.
Sure seems to me that most of us conservatives have complained about Congress (which was under Republican control) and the president spending like drunken sailors. In fact quite a few of us thought the Congressmen got what they deserved by abandoning their supposed "beliefs".
#gmstrong
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No, you are wrong. I couldn't care less about the "sides" everyone is talking about. I'm not a part of either side. Obama has made his plans very clear and I could not disagree with them more. It's really that simple, although somehow it must make some of you feel better to believe it's just because of what "side" he's on. And as far as the great depression, many mistakes were made by the government trying to get us out of that....mistakes that we are still paying for today.
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Not a big fan of Limbaugh but he does say things to get a rise out of people as well as to get their attention and he got it with these comments.
Thats my take. He's an entertainer he says what he says to make a buck.Kudos to him.I have no idea why the rants of a former DJ drug abuser carry so much weight. Guess thats why he lives in a gated waterfront Florida community and jets around the country to football games and I don't.
Hey does anybody want to hear my opinions?.... thats what I thought.
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But it's not going to happen. Unless it's "their guy", they'll do everything in their power to tear it down and opose it.
that's the thing Pit,,,, "THEY" are "WE"! It just depends on what side you are standing on..
"Their guy" vs "Our Guy" is unproductive thinking. NOTHING will ever get accomplished with that kind of base line thinking.
It is time both beliefs and parties,, conservative/liberal/whatever, democrat/republican/whatever put aside all this petty bickering..
This country has HUGE problems to solve... the Economy, Healthcare, Education, Energy, War, Terrorism and Environmental to name a few..
I don't care who caused what,,, I don't care who's at fault for any of the issues named above... we the people elect these damn fools to do the job and do it right... I don't really think that when you come right down to it, people give a damn about labels.... RESULTS are all that matter...
Maybe it's just me,, (and it could be, I've stood alone many times) But if you want to really serve the people as an elected (or appointed) official, then you have to allow for the person sitting next to you to voice his/her opinion without labels...
Listen to him/her... in thier words, you may find common ground...
But instead, what we have is,,, if it comes out of a noted liberals mouth the conservatives will bemoan it.... if it comes out of a noted conservatives mouth, then liberals will bemoan it.
And so it goes, on and on and on and on..... No end in sight and no solutions brought about.
If that's not the defination of stupid,,, I have no idea what is.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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No, you are wrong. I couldn't care less about the "sides" everyone is talking about. I'm not a part of either side.
Jules...you forget, you do have a record.
You may "claim" your not from any side, but your record says otherwise.
That said, there is not a thing wrong with having a side or supporting one party over the other...but don't claim to be independent when your record indicates you are not... ...mac
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Really Mac? What record is that? Can't wait for this answer.
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No, you are wrong. I couldn't care less about the "sides" everyone is talking about. I'm not a part of either side.
Jules...you forget, you do have a record.
You may "claim" your not from any side, but your record says otherwise.
That said, there is not a thing wrong with having a side or supporting one party over the other...but don't claim to be independent when your record indicates you are not... ...mac
You're right, she does have a record. A record of being Libaterian. She has gone against Bush a ton. You just seem to see what you want to see.
#gmstrong
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IF his policies, in fact, DO work, why should we complain? Our country will have crawled out of this sinkhole our former president put us in and we will prosper?
That's where you lose people Ammo... it's not as simple as Bush got us here.. many of the issues (don't ask me for a percentage) were there before Bush took office.. at least were started before Bush took office.
Many that Clinton had to deal with were started by the first Bush and he inherited things from Reagan who inherited problems from Carter and so on and so on.
Works the exact same way with congress as well...
It's pointless to lay blame at this point... just doesn't matter.. waste of time..
And it won't help fix it today....
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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It was in the context, but I know that doesn't matter to many.
I hope he fails too...this push towards socialism will fail. It always does.
I agree.. blast Rush as they may, he certainly is a big target and seems to enjoy being the target but if "success" means passing the initiatives Obama ran on, then I also hope he fails because I think Obama's success will cause this country to fail in far worse ways than a loss of some hope. I voted against him because I don't like his policies, of course I'm not all excited about seeing his intitiatives passed...
Not sure why that is so hard to understand.... 52 million people +/- voted AGAINST his policies and would probably prefer that VERY FEW of them ever get enacted...
yebat' Putin
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jk.
I think that it really depends on what you define as success. Is it
A. The implementation of his policies
B. The Implementation of his policies and Distinct proof that they solve the problems that they were created for.
I think it is clearly viable for people who believe that A is the definition of success to hope that he is not successful, because they think that his policies will ultimately be failures and hurt the country more than they can help. I can understand this and respect this position.
If people are hoping that Obama is not Successful and are defining successful as option B, then I think that these people Deserve Ridicule. These people would seem to be hoping that his policies fail, because it would invalidate their beliefs and that their beliefs are more important than the problems being solved.
Honestly I think that a majority if not all people (including Rush) hope that Obama fails are defining success as option A. Where as all of the people who are upset at these people are assuming that Rush and the rest of these people are defining success as option B.
Honestly this whole argument feels like a giant misunderstanding to me. Nobody wants the Country to fail, they just disagree on how to fix it.
Last edited by hungryhound; 01/23/09 02:02 PM.
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My main point is I don't care how we get out of this mess as long as we do.
And we should hope we get out of this mess soon.
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My main point is I don't care how we get out of this mess as long as we do.
And we should hope we get out of this mess soon.
You need to care how we do it... with the economy and national security and all of the other issues that Obama has to deal with, it is extremely easy to create policies that show short term gains (like send out a "stimulus check" for example) and everybody will say YEAAAA! like they did when FDR created all of those government programs... then years from now, decades from now, a couple generations from now, somebody will be stuck with an overly expensive, overly cumbersome, overly involved yet futile federal government program... like the many that we are currently saddled with now... just think, all of the government programs that we whine and complain about today because they are so expensive and largely ineffective... at some point in the past large groups of people viewed them as the best option to get us out of an immediate problem... YEAAAA US.
yebat' Putin
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How do you know Obama's policies will fail when 65% of them are NEW ideas?
What new ideas??? He is rehashing Old ideas that didn't work before and have put us in the situation we are in today...He hasn't brought in any new ideas.....He has just presented them with a new spin and people gobble it up because he brings "Change" and "Hope"....
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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And as far as the great depression, many mistakes were made by the government trying to get us out of that....mistakes that we are still paying for today.
And mistakes we keep MAKING today...and as far as it seems...the same mistakes we plan to make in the future...   
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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I didn't see where he talked about race at all Phil
LIMBAUGH: We are being told that we have to hope he succeeds, that we have to bend over, grab the ankles, bend over forward, backward, whichever, because his father was black, because this is the first black president.
This is actually the hottest of the air, fair worse than the other stuff. It's almost a mirror of his McNabb comments, where IIRC, he said that McNabb was overrated, only because the masses wanted to see a black QB succeed.
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j/k
Rush is entertainment. The Clintons did wonders for his career and Obama will assure he continues to rake it in. From my point of view you have to listen carefully because he often ventures into half truths and character assassination that is a waste of time. I find his unwillingness to actually debate a liberal caller rather pitiful given his strong stances (Mike McConnell from WLW, a libertarian, takes all comers and usually wins). I sometimes wish that he and other conservative talk show hosts would be as tough on the Republican party's penchant for deficit spending. In that effort they have attempted to equal their counterparts, but the other side of the aisle owns that dangerous "talent".
I do hope that the Dems don't try to use the Fairness Doctrine to silence or counterpoint Rush and company. Al Franken failed for a reason. Rush's career is based on ratings and thereby advertising dollars.....capitalism defined. Of course subsidizing failure is popular right now.
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Mike McConnell from WLW, a libertarian, takes all comers and usually wins
Mike is very good. He's got far too much of a common sense approach to make it nationally....although I know he's filled in for Limbaugh and done some nationally syndicated stuff. He's not flashy enough for the masses. Too bad though, because he makes a hell of a lot of sense most of the time.
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Mike McConnell from WLW, a libertarian, takes all comers and usually wins
Mike is very good. He's got far too much of a common sense approach to make it nationally....although I know he's filled in for Limbaugh and done some nationally syndicated stuff. He's not flashy enough for the masses. Too bad though, because he makes a hell of a lot of sense most of the time.
I didn't realize he subbed for Rush. He topics are well thought out. I have listened to him for years, but not so much lately. I do occasionally catch his weekend show that 610 (Columbus) airs.
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How are tax cuts "conservative"? he says if bush's tax cuts are not erased that's a success for conservatives? I always thought the main tenents of a conservative where
small federal government
State rights
Personal rights.
So in a time of massive deficits somehow a tax cut is conservative? I don't get it.
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I always thought the main tenents of a conservative where
small federal government
State rights
Personal rights.
You answered your own question.
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I always thought the main tenents of a conservative where
small federal government
State rights
Personal rights.
Seriously? You don't know how tax cuts are associated with conservatives? 
yebat' Putin
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You can't be serious. 
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Seriously??
That's it? That's all ya got to show that he's "talking about race"? He's simply making an observation of an incidental condition, and a very accurrate one, not making it the topic.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Really Mac? What record is that? Can't wait for this answer.
Jules...Your obviously anti left wing and anti President Obama as you want him to fail.
Now, your going to claim you don't want Obama to fail just his policies, but can you separate a President from his policies? A President is defined by his policies, actions and beliefs, therefore, IMO, your attempting to have it both ways, which I refuse to accept.
Jules, there is nothing wrong with you being anti left wing and anti Obama as long as your honest about it and don't pretend to be something other than what you are.
You might want to claim your something other than right wing, but IMO, you sure seem to be pro right wing more than anything else.
In my lifetime, I have never wished a President or his policies to fail. I did not vote for George W. Bush either time, yet I did want him to succeed. I wanted Bush's economic policies to succeed and continue to create good jobs for the American people. I especially wanted Bush to succeed after 9/11 and supported his war against the taliban and al Qaeda. Bush lost my support when he went to war in Iraq and the threat Bush claimed, did not exist.
Jules...if your not pro right wing, tell us what you are and what your beliefs are. But remember, if you are a RWer, its certainly ok to say so.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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No, you are wrong. I couldn't care less about the "sides" everyone is talking about. I'm not a part of either side.
Jules...you forget, you do have a record.
You may "claim" your not from any side, but your record says otherwise.
That said, there is not a thing wrong with having a side or supporting one party over the other...but don't claim to be independent when your record indicates you are not... ...mac
This one is just too precious to let go - YOU telling someone else they have a record? This one might need to be archived.
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Talk about not comprehending what most people have been saying.
I'm comprehending it, I just don't get it.
IF his policies, in fact, DO work, why should we complain? Our country will have crawled out of this sinkhole our former president put us in and we will prosper?
If the policies he supports would have worked in the past, I'd be all for them
What you aren't getting is that massive gov't. spending does nothing but fire up yet another backhoe digging this countries burial site.
I didn't care for Bush's spending. If you think he spent a lot, just wait and see what Pres. Obama's plans, if enacted, spend.
Here's a little clue: If you are so in debt you can't see the way out, would it be wise to get another credit card?
Just as with a person's personal finances - look at what the national debt takes out of our pockets. Is it wise to increase that? On a personal level, if someone has say, 5 credit cards, all maxed out at, say, $5000. (that's $25,000), is it wise to borrow more? Any clue how much those 5 credit cards take out of your monthly income? All for things you have long since enjoyed?
Our gov't. is doing the same thing - taking out a new credit card.
Look at the social programs we currently have. They are sucking this country dry. Well, actually, it was dy a long time ago, just no one cared. And that's republican, democrat, and independent - there is no exclusivety.
All these things our gov't. spends on - it is literally beyond belief. Do you think adding MORE spending will somehow take care of the problem? Another example: you're in college. You have loans, right? Lets say you graduate, get a job, and you find you can't pay your college loans. Would it make sense for you to sign a 1 year lease on a nice apartment when you already can't pay the bills you have? Well, but, golly gee, you should be able to have a nice place to live, right? Sure, sign the lease.
Then you go buy a car - take out a 6 year loan, cause, after all, you deserve a car, right? No, you couldn't make the payments on your student loan, but you needed a place to live, and a car - so now you can't afford ANYTHING you have. So, you have to live on credit cards.......see how the hole gets deeper and deeper?
By the way, for anyone interested, our national debt is closer to $57 trillion. And we think we can take on socialized medicine?
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I see you backed off your "record" thing and then went totally off the deep end trying to come up with something else. See, we were talking about "sides" as in the Democrats and Republicans disliking a certain candidate because of their party. Do you understand that Mac, or do I need to go over the thread again? I'm not a part of either party. I never said I don't have strong opinions one way or another, what I was saying, and you know this, was that I have no allegiance to either "side". Therefore, party affiliation means nothing to me in my support or defense of candidates. You decided you "knew" what my "record" was based on the last election, decided to use it to try and discredit what I just said, and now you end up looking foolish and trying to back track. Let's take a look at my record. I voted for Clinton twice, voted for an independent against Bush the first time, voted for Kerry against Bush the second time and voted for McCain this time. Yeah, go ahead and try that little number again, Mac. 
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Wow... another thread where Dems think the Rep is wrong. Reps think the Rep is right.
I'll settle it... Rush is doing what he always does. He's not a stupid man. He is looking for ratings from his faithful followers and anyone else who hates Obama. Spewing this stuff has made him into a billionare.
That's why I married a girl from Erie,...common sense. It's not Rush,...nobody really cares what he says,...they're just mad that the same things they think don't put money in their bank accounts.
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Now, your going to claim you don't want Obama to fail just his policies, but can you separate a President from his policies?
I'm sure not going to answer FOR jules - first of all, she's quite capable of doing so herself, and secondly, nobody wants to put words in her mouth lest the receive the wrath.
BUT, yes, I can seperate a president from his policies. Especially when a presidents policies have been tried and failed before.
But, fear not. President Obama will be attempting to enact these new policies under the "hope and change" banner, so I'm sure they'll work.
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BUT, yes, I can seperate a president from his policies. Especially when a presidents policies have been tried and failed before.
You answered quite well for me.
Wrath. LOL. When you guys go at it it's good old fashioned arguing. When I do it it's wrath.
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Might be wrong ( who would believe ) but I think what you heard during the Campaign was the usual rhetoric both Major Party's blab ... I think Obama will govern more Centrist than the left is going to like .. No , he is not going to make Libertarians like myself real happy  .. But I don't think it is going to be the end of America as we have known it  ..
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Mac, I want to see some of Obama's policies fail, but that doesn't mean I want the COUNTRY to fail. I want the policies that will HURT our countries to not be approved by Congress, thus "failing". Call me whatever you want, but I feel that the tax system is wrong. I feel like the spending Obama has laid out is not something he has the funds to cover so once again, he is going to tax those that have succeeded in life. In his own words he wants to "share the wealth". I am totally against the government FORCING me to help those less fortunate. I do that on my own and think it is something that those blessed with things SHOULD do. I do not think that the government should force people to do it, though.
There is far too much entitlement from many who want others to foot the bill for them. They want the government to take from whoever it has to and give to them. That is a policy that Obama ("share the wealth") endorses. I want him to fail in getting those policies put in place and I want them to fail to be put in place for the betterment of our country. You aren't guaranteed that you will have everything you want in life. In fact, you are guarante life, liberty, and the PURSUIT of happiness.....notice it doesn't say anything about the government GIVING you anything.
So, label away. I really don't care. There are too many plans that he has that will hurt our country We can't tax and spend our way out of the economic crisis we are in. If anything, we should be tightening the government's belt so that the taxpayer gets some relief, more money in their pocket, and therfore more money into the economy.
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