DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Terrys Talkin "About the Browns"

Not sure if this goes here or in Tailgate... if it's in the wrong place,, feel free to move it Refs... Thanks

Each week Terry Pluto writes for the Sunday PD, a column about the Cavs, Tribe and Browns,, this is the Browns section only.....

Quote:

---

About the Browns ...



Tracy Boulian/The Plain Dealer
The Browns' reluctance to share much information about their revamped front office may not be playing well with a fan base that is dealing with frustration over the object of their devotion coupled with the failing economy. Terry Pluto wonders if the franchise is taking its audience for granted.Wonder when the Browns will get the message that the fans -- their fans -- are begging for news -- any news -- about the team. I have received emails from fans wanting to know what kind of offense new coach Eric Mangini and offensive coordinator Brian Daboll would like to run. I have no clue. But how about making Daboll and new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan available to the media -- not just to keep the media happy, but to actually speak to the fans.
Maybe the Browns haven't noticed, or maybe they don't care, but they really need to give their fan base a reason to believe. These people are desperate to talk some football, and there are enough football men in place to do that. The excuse that these guys are on a new job and they are too busy to take an hour each week to speak to the fans through the media is insulting. The Browns could make Daboll available one week, Ryan the next, Mangini a third. Take a few questions, let people see their picture in the paper and on TV. Let the fans hear their voice, and maybe sense some passion and determination to give the town a reason to cheer.

Perhaps the Browns are waiting to put George Kokinis is place as GM, and they are afraid to let anyone talk until that happens -- as they will reveal a deep secret. Just tell the assistants they can't talk about the front office stuff -- and anything else they want to keep quiet. The fans want to get a sense of what to expect in 2009.

Instead, we have stories about the Browns laying off hard-working people such as Steve King and Ken Mather, both bleeding orange and brown, both loyal soldiers in the public relations department and the team's Web site. Most of the employees shown the door are paid like average workers in Northeast Ohio, not like the coaches and executives who walked away from the team with millions after being fired. For the Browns, this just adds to the public relations problems.

None of this is to write off Mangini and Kokinis, who may be able to turn the Browns into a winner. No one knows. But what has hurt the team with the public has been the inability to develop a message of what they wanted to be -- and then to deliver that message to the fans. Let's hope Mangini and Kokinis realize this is a weakness, and they should ask the Indians how to communicate to their customers through the media.

Trying to figure out if a Mangini defense can stop the run based on what he did in three years coaching the Jets: From 2006-08, the Jets ranked 25th, 29th and seventh vs. the run, so they did have success this season. Against the pass it was 14th, ninth and 29th. So while the run defense improved, the pass defense collapsed.

The 2008 Football Prospectus (published before the 2008 season) wrote this: "Eric Mangini and defensive coordinator Bob Sutton are extremists: some teams use more 6-man blitzes, and other teams use more 8-man coverage schemes, but no team uses them as often as the Jets."

The 2008 Football Prospectus on new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan: "Hair flying, Ryan's red-eyed, spit-splattering tirades made the (2007) Raiders more watchable on the sidelines than on the field." He was voted the Football Prospectus top defensive coordinator in 2006. But as those authors point out, it's hard to sustain success (or even judge coaches) with the Raiders.

---

http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/blog/index.ssf/2009/01/terrys_talkin_carmonas_comebac.html

Honestly, we don't really NEED to know anything, but I can see from a PR standpoint, there is a gap and for me as a fan, it's a little annoying...

If this was like july and we didn't know jack then i would be annoyed...i'm not annoyed at all right now...we don't have a freakin GM right now...we are trying to figure out how this whole thing is goin to work...give it a rest moron...they will talk when they can....jus cuz couple of fans(mostly u) can't sleep doesn't mean there is a public relation prb...

Their time should be spent on learning the roster and making decisions about the team...not talking to the press about what the are going to do before they have even finished analyzing the team...thats stupid. I'm okay with not a lot of new info commin out...as long as its not training camp time and we are still clueless...

LOL I think I know the answer, but when you say:

Quote:

---

give it a rest moron

---

And

Quote:

---

jus cuz couple of fans(mostly u) can't sleep doesn't mean there is a public relation prb...

---

are you speaking of me or Pluto? I mean, am I the moron you speak of and the guy that can't sleep or is Pluto

Quote:

---

Trying to figure out if a Mangini defense can stop the run based on what he did in three years coaching the Jets: From 2006-08, the Jets ranked 25th, 29th and seventh vs. the run, so they did have success this season. Against the pass it was 14th, ninth and 29th. So while the run defense improved, the pass defense collapsed.

---

Lack of Pressure dictated that one...Pass D that is...

Quote:

---

"Eric Mangini and defensive coordinator Bob Sutton are extremists: some teams use more 6-man blitzes, and other teams use more 8-man coverage schemes, but no team uses them as often as the Jets."

---

Call me confused...I take that as they mixed it up...Nothin' wrong with that...

Quote:

---

The 2008 Football Prospectus on new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan: "Hair flying, Ryan's red-eyed, spit-splattering tirades made the (2007) Raiders more watchable on the sidelines than on the field." He was voted the Football Prospectus top defensive coordinator in 2006. But as those authors point out, it's hard to sustain success (or even judge coaches) with the Raiders.

---

I like it...FIRE...Stats or no stats...The Raiders D was GOOD after Ryan took over...And there ya' go...Hard to judge coaches of the Raiders...Gee...Wonder why???...Ryan was a SOLID Signing...

I think this is funny as hell actually.

A lot of people whined and moaned that Lerner let the fans influence his decisions.

Now? We're not getting all the info and he's making calculated business decisions in private and we're hearing "opposite whining".

It's hilarious! I just hope he realises people are going to whine, criticize and complain no matter what he does UNTIL WE WIN!

So do what you need to do Randy and to HELL with all the whiners! And if we go 9-7 next year? People will still whine! So fuggetaboutit Randy and do what needs done!



JMHO

agreed

I meant you

Naw u kno what i meant..that was for him lol...

That is my take as well. Some of these writers are a little miffed their contacts are drying up while some other writers contacts may remain in place.

Quote:

---

I meant you

Naw u kno what i meant..that was for him lol...

---

I knew that,, but you know, some on here seem to think I'm really sensitive so I wanted to be sure to live up to the reputation

LOL it is kinda funny isn't it... But I do understand the fans wanting to know... I mean, we follow this team and so when info is slow in coming, it does push us to the edge a little.. again, Lerner doesn't owe us an explaination for anything really.. all he needs to do is put a winner on the field and we'll all shut up

I think the thing here is that reporters are frustrated a bunch by the lack of info to report on.. And again, I understand that.. That's thier job and without info, they got nothig to say except to say,,, "we got no info" LOL

Just a writer whining.

Then we agree..... See how easy that was

And PPE agrees too. But then again, he doesn't post as much as we do and he keeps padding his post count with one liners.......

I am so tired of "the fan is king" philosophy in cleveland.

Forget em, focus on getting it right and winning and the fans will respond. They don't need to know every little nuance of what is going on in the FO. In fact they shouldn't know, they shouldn't be able to rattle off everything that happens in the FO.

Get it right, lets the fans know what they need to know and not what they want.

Quote:

---

I knew that,, but you know, some on here seem to think I'm really sensitive

---

...not that there's anything wrong with being a

ah... er... um...

"sensitive man"....


I'd never judge. Really.

Not sure if this one was posted yet. I figured it could fit here since both articles talk about Manginis management style

Layoffs reveal priorities
Million-dollar salaries, pricey extras aren't signs of team strapped for cash

By Patrick McManamon
Beacon Journal sports columnist


Published on Sunday, Jan 25, 2009


There's no disputing the reality that economic times are difficult.

When Microsoft announces it will lay off 5,000 people the day after the Browns get rid of 15 . . . well . . . things are difficult.

The Browns are not immune, but the cutbacks sure seem tougher to take from the local football team.

It just seems so disappointing in a sport in which TV contracts are worth billions of dollars.

Yes, Randy Lerner deserves the right to run his team as he wishes.

Yes, many other businesses are facing cutbacks.

No, I do not have all the financial details.

But these moves speak to judgment and to leadership and to priorities. And they speak to decisions. In a business in which players are paid what they are and coaches make what they do, it boggles the mind to think that people making $50,000 or $60,000 can have any effect on the bottom line.

The people who were fired by the Browns this past week are our neighbors and friends and, in some cases, our families.

They worked for the Browns because it was a job, and also because it was the Browns and the orange helmet stood for something. At least it used to.

These are real people with babies on the way and young children and children in college. They came to work Wednesday and were blindsided, then told they had 10 minutes to clean out their desks.

Among those released include Ed Suggs (youth development director), Lorne Novick (legal counsel), Carla Davis (whose days go back to the Cleveland Browns Trust), Ken Mather (director of media information), Beth Malafa (events and special projects manager), Steve King (Internet writer and resident Browns historian), Chetan Tanna (senior manager for information technology), Dena Squire (accounts payable coordinator), Brendan Rowe (director of team operations), Cathy Slezak (executive assistant for team operations), Seth Hall (fan relations), Russ Digney (assistant groundskeeper), Justin Harbaugh (art director) and Angel Morales (security manager).

All contributed to the team, but none had a thing to do with coaching the players or playing the games. All merely worked their hardest to make sure the team functioned as best it could.

The Browns have not won, and a disconnect seems to be growing between the fans and the community.

So a team that suffers because it can't put a winning team together in tough economic times responds by taking people's jobs.

Readers have written and asked: Why does it matter? These people don't make the difference between winning and losing.

Well, the way people are treated matters. If it didn't matter, we wouldn't teach our kids manners.

The better a business treats its employees, the more the people will respond.

The difference with the Browns is that people also responded because it's the Browns. Those fired dreamt of working for the Browns — then were shown the door while players who make millions demand more.

Any winning team needs support inside the building, and it needs competent people doing those jobs. Eliminating them like disposable pieces cuts at the team fabric.

These individuals returned to their families and neighborhoods Wednesday without jobs. The team did pay severance, and it surely protected itself with a ''no criticism'' clause, but it doesn't change the reality of what happened.

No doubt they greeted family with some blank stares, worries and confused looks.

Any move like this chips away at the bond between a team and its fans — and the last thing the Browns need now is anything that will chip away at this bond.

The Browns have lost an entire generation of young people because of the constant struggles that go back to the 1990s. The new generation sees more problems — and wonders why their fathers were dismissed when they were working so hard.

Yes, times are tough — and making these decisions is not easy.

But there are other options besides outright firing people, options that take on new meaning in tough times. Options like temporary salary cuts, a weeklong furlough, voluntary givebacks. And perhaps flat-out common-sense decisions.

Why not ask everyone with the team who can to give back? Think about it: Would you want to root for a team if the coaches protected their several-hundred-thousand-dollar salaries at the expense of an individual losing his or her job?

A team that feeds its players breakfast and lunch in gourmet style can't afford these salaries?

A team that pays $20 million for a fired coach and general manager has to make these cuts?

A team that goes to the absurd length of providing valet parking for players wipes a person's job away?

A team that chartered two planes to take sponsors to an away game last year, then wound up with half-empty planes because it didn't take the sponsors, turns and shoves a trusted employee out the door?

People will have to be re-hired for some of these jobs. The team will need a media relations director and someone to run team operations. Is that the economy?

It doesn't add up.

New coach Eric Mangini is entitled to do things his way, and he deserves a fair chance. But when he's complaining because he doesn't like the look of the building's interior and demanding it be painted and it's done without question while people are losing their jobs, the priorities seem skewed.

This team needs to build good will, not chip away at it.

The Browns could be responsible for the league strengthening the criteria of the Rooney Rule, because the team interviewed defensive coordinator Mel Tucker while stating it wanted an experienced head coach. There are rumblings the interview lasted less than an hour.

The other night at the Cleveland Sports Awards banquet, Mangini and defensive tackle Shaun Rogers crossed paths without a greeting.

Apparently, the Pro Bowl defensive tackle had never met Mangini, and even though the two had a chance to shake hands, they walked within a few feet of each other and said nothing.

The Browns are painting walls and painting over murals of their hall of famers and discussing ways to stop information from getting to the media — which in turn keeps information from reaching the public.

The Browns talk about treating former assistant coaches well, but the first two days after Mangini was hired, they were told not to come to the building. They couldn't come in the building even though they were under contract — and in some cases held to that contract and unable to interview for new jobs.

The Super Bowl will be played in a week. Nine of the coaches in the game were fired by the Browns, including Arizona Cardinals coach Ken Whisenhunt.

So were two coordinators: Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and Cardinals defensive coordinator Clancy Pendergast.

Others include Billy Davis, Maurice Carthon and John Lott of the Cardinals, and Larry Zierlein, Ray Jackson and Keith Butler of the Steelers.

Meanwhile, the Browns have rehired a coach they fired a few years ago. Carl Smith is a good coach, but was he a bad one a few years ago?

One assistant coach in the league said the Browns keep changing things around every couple of years, which keeps the fans believing things are getting better.

That perpetuates the problems, because it always involves starting over.

That means things get no better, which prompts another restart.

Dante Lavelli, a Browns hall of famer, died Tuesday night. By week's end, the team had not released a single statement on his death. A call about Lavelli from a Beacon Journal reporter was not returned.

They did have a story on the Internet about Lavelli. It was written by Steve King. He wrote it Tuesday night, then was laid off Wednesday morning.

At every home game in the press box, the team announces its attendance.

Reporters can see empty seats in the stadium, but without fail, the Browns announce a sellout of 70-something-thousand ''tickets distributed.''

Tickets distributed.

You wonder whether people will ever realize they're being distributed a bill of goods.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/38289874.html

I personally think people are getting canned because there are always leaks with any Browns story....i think they are trying to fill the cracks. While I don't like anyone getting canned, IF this is the reason, I can understand it.

Now these pure excuse of Sports Journalist are laying the guilt trip and using the fans for them to have more EASY WORK THROWN THEIR WAY.

"The excuse that these guys are on a new job and they are too busy to take an hour each week to speak to the fans through the media is insulting."

I see so it has nothing to do with you having to go out and make an actual deadline and do some digging up on your own. You want a weekly presser to fill the column. How nice.

Get off your butt and track these guys down. Knock on some doors - you know, ask some questions.

Right now they are busy trying to put things together...looking at film getting this right.
Guess what will make the fans HAPPY? --- WINNIG!!
Guess what would be insulting to these Frustrating fans? --- Losing!

Information that the media is to provide...go get it and give it too us. Stop looking for somebody else to do your jobs! Boy we got nothing but Shaun Smiths of Sports Journalism covering the Browns!

Them working hard and not giving us news is not insulting. I can't believe this guy is that lazy that he has to pin it on the New Regime not caring about the fans for not giving the media a weekly report to fill their papers.

JMHO

I guess I should be surprised that so many of you are clueless about what a real team does for and with it's fans. But since we haven't had a real team here in about a dozen years perhaps it's understandable.

Terry Pluto is an outstanding writer. Not one of you could carry his jock in that respect. But because he has the audacity to criticize the Browns he's a moron and a lazy bum......Laughable at best.

The buffoons in Berea haven't managed to do one thing the right way on the first shot since '99. What in God's name makes you think shutting off all access to an information starved fanbase would be an intelligent way to do things?

Give me a break, boys. Terry Pluto is right. Y'all need to stop drinking that orange kool-aid. Or the team will continue to treat us like crap from here to eternity.

"I guess I should be surprised that so many of you are clueless"

I see so anyone who don't think like you all of a sudden is clueless?

Yeah Pluto knows - sorry but he couldn't even do a School paper here in NY...so don't tell me how big time he is...lol


But lets see what exactly is your point...since you are the one who isn't clueless
something tells me though you know about as much as you do with Football as in what goes on.

Lets see here...Ok they are buffoons since 99...but the new guys are doing something different and closing the media access as they work diligently towards their building this thing. So what are you saying...they should continue to do it the way "THE BUFFOON'S" did.

So they are going about it a little different. You think its tight here...what about KC?

How bout this OH CLUELESS ONE...

You got Bellicheck, Parcells, Pioli, McDaniels all building something including Mangini. They have many of the same tree, contacts and history.

3 of them are in the process of building something new top to bottom with a coaching staff.

But NAH...In your INTELLIGENCE (and I'll use that expression real loosely) for the sake of PLUTO writing his column - they should spill the beans on exactly what they are doing...what they are going to do...and how they are going to do it.

I can't believe you got the gall to claim others clueless...but thats ok. Don't actually Think and figure out why we are tight as a drum right now. Its more important for a fool like Pluto to have a story line.

real smart.

"Yo, 'Shot You be one; I'll be the other. I want to sleep nights soon to. O would love to see the K hire happen. But gimme sumpin', a bone, something with our stripe and colors. I nned to know there is life after figure skating in Cleveland (wife is watching that as I type). LOL

Why do you guys think Mangini would have the 'legends' painting covered? There cant be any good covering up a painting that someone put alot of time and effort in.
I can see that maybe he wants to put the "what can you do for me now" mentality. But to cover up such a good painting seems pointless to me. I guess I dont see anything bad coming from it, I just dont see any good either.
I remember when Butch was getting some heat for having nothing to do with former players. I wonder if Mangini is going to bring the same approach.
Its not like covering the painting or ignoring the alumni is going to win football games. I think you can win and keep a fan/family friendly environment.

This post has nothing to do about leaked info to reporters conversation, just dont see why the painting had to be covered as one of the first things to do on the job. I recently attended my daughters b-ball game at my old school and saw the new gym. I liked the paintings in the building. I thought it gives a little team spirit.

Gosh, arguing with one of the board gurus....how dare I......

Where to start.....how about here.... something tells me though you know about as much as you do with Football as in what goes on

What the hell does that mean? Pretty sure you were trying to insult me. That is your style. But I really can't be insulted when the sentence makes no sense.

Yeah Pluto knows - sorry but he couldn't even do a School paper here in NY...so don't tell me how big time he is After reading a lot of your stuff I'm pretty sure you can't either so I guess that would make you even.....

You got Bellicheck, Parcells, Pioli, McDaniels all building something including Mangini. They have many of the same tree, contacts and history.

Parcells has a good record. So does Belichick. The others, including Mangini, haven't done anything to speak of without the direct help of one of those two. Let's see how they all do in their current new jobs before we anoint them saints in the Parcells line. And I might point out that Billy boy didn't do such a great job in his first head coaching gig. You may remember it. And part of that, by his own admission, was because of his non-existent media skills.

for the sake of PLUTO writing his column - they should spill the beans on exactly what they are doing...what they are going to do...and how they are going to do it.

Now, I know reading comprehension is apparently not the strong suit of most on here, but I would expect better from a NY scholar such as yourself. Nowhere did Terry Pluto say they needed to spill state secrets. Just a little Q&A with the locals. Show that they care about the fans. Even if they're faking it. You know damn well if they did that we'd eat it up and proclaim them the greatest coaching staff since Paul Brown left town. At least until they lose a few.....

I can't believe you got the gall to claim others clueless...but thats ok.

I know it's OK....you and Diam do it all the time and are almost never called on it. Why shouldn't the rest of us be able to do it?

I'm feelin ya Bard.... I can wait,, and I know ole randy don't owe me squat, but I guess I just like hearing the news...LOL

and I know ole randy don't owe me squat,

Of course he does. Without you and the rest of us fans what has he got? A really expensive man-toy. Not an investment. Treating the fans better is just good business sense. Period.

Doesn't matter anymore,, Koks is hired and it's been anounced ... Officially

I think we'd better get used to not hearing much about the team through the front office.

Mangini was trained by Belichick. Belichick doesn't let anyone know anything. That combined with the fact that Phil Savage is no longer around means we are not going to be hearing much from the front office.

No doubt.

The writers are accustomed to having Savage and before that Policy who was never shy to say a few words. Now they don't and they are a bit ticked.

Yeah, imagine that.....writers covering the Cleveland Browns, a team that is almost a public trust in Ohio, ticked because the people running it are treating them like they are terrorists and facts about the team are state secrets.

Whiners........

He wants to hear that the Browns are the evil in football...
''FOOTBALL IS THE DEVIL!!!""