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The Browns are alienating their fan base. And losing is a major factor. But until we start winning the team needs to do what it can to give us hope. Whether true hope or as a PR gimmick the fans need some kind of hope that a turnaround is possible or much of our fan base will get whittled down to the diehards who hang out on sites like this. And right not most people don't see that happening any time soon. Do you?
Do actually see the the Browns becoming a well run, winning franchise any time soon? A team the other NFL teams envy and try to emulate? I hate to say it but I don't? That doesn't mean I am not a fan. It doesn't mean I don't love my Browns. It doesn't mean I will find another team to root for (except for whomever Pittsburgh is playing). It means I am a realist or perhaps a pessimist. But except for the rare small glimmer, nothing in the past 15 to 20 years has given me much reason to believe otherwise.
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It means I am a realist or perhaps a pessimist.
Based on that post, definitely the latter, hehe.
They aren't alienating their fan-base. The only time you see a fan-base turn on the franchise is when you see empty seats and protests, such as what you currently see in Cincy and Detroit. To a real extent, the Cards were that team up until this year. The Bidwells are some of the sorriest owners in the entire league, and the fans know it.
The Browns aren't in that category. Lerner is trying to learn, and from where I'm sitting as head chair of the Realist society  I believe he's made a solid move in hiring a coach who's got proven, winning experience. I know nothing about Kokinis, but let's be honest here for a moment: Based on any statements from any GM or coach who's been hired here, what HONEST conclusions can we draw? It's all the same PR crap. "I want to bring a winning tradition to the Browns." "I feel positive that we're going to work hard and go in the right direction." BLAH BLAH BLAH.........It's all the same crap whether or not they are talking to the media. In today's NFL, the RIGHT way to go about things is to break out the golden book of cliche's, talk a bunch if you like, but say very little.
Everyone is aware of what's going on with LT out in San Diego. AJ Smith talks a bunch, and basically mocked Tomlinson. The more an owner, GM, or coach talks, the more chance that person stands of saying something stOOpid. The less these guys say, the better off everything is.
Sorry Jester, but I see no evidence that this organization is alientating the fan-base. I do see people that are tired of losing, but that isn't the same. Realistically speaking, people are aprehensive because when all you've essentially done for a decade is lose, you expect to lose. Again, that's not the same as becoming alientated. That's nothing more than discouragement. So the question isn't about alienating us or not speaking to the media, but rather the perception of how this new-fangled approach works, hehe. For teams that have been run by the Tuna and Bellyache, well, it's proven to work, and that's good enough for me.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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They aren't alienating their fan-base. The only time you see a fan-base turn on the franchise is when you see empty seats and protests, such as what you currently see in Cincy and Detroit. To a real extent, the Cards were that team up until this year. The Bidwells are some of the sorriest owners in the entire league, and the fans know it.
The Browns aren't in that category. Yet. And while, according to your definition, the Browns TECHNICALLY aren't alienating the fanbase give the team a couple more 4-12 seasons and you'll see protests and signs all over the place. The empty seats are already there, bud. That 10-6 season put a tourniquet on the bleeding, so to speak. The current regime has a tough row to hoe. I don't envy them. If they want to put the clamps down that is their right. That doesn't make it right. This method may work. But so far Mangini ain't Belichick or Parcells. At least not from what I've seen in NYC. I'm more than willing to watch and form a different opinion. Let's hope all the upcoming winning changes that opinion. 
"People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they just like to pee a lot."
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Seems to me that when I was reading this website just 4-6 weeks ago there were season ticket holders who didn't want to go to the game and had trouble finding anybody to give the tickets away to. If that isn't a sign of alienating the fan base I don't know what is. Or am I mis-remembering those posts???
And maybe being surrounded by pittsburgh fans (both true and bandwagoners) and getting ready to watch them in the super bowl yet again has me on a pessimistic mood lately. But I see nothing to suggest that we will be in the super bowl in the next 3 years. Right now my 3 year goal for the Browns in not for them to win the super bowl (though I would gladly be wrong wrong) but just to turn into a well run franchise with a chance to win week in week out and be competitive for the playoffs year in year out.
Don't get me wrong here. I am not criticizing Mangini and Kokinis. I am hopeful they can turn it around for us. But I was hopeful with the hring of Butch and again with the hiring of RAC/Savage. The Browns are not at risk of losing me as a fan. I am as devoted as anyone out there. But I work a fair bit of weekends. In the past I would go in early and hope we weren't too busy so I could get home and watch the game. At the end of this last season it was more like eh if i don't get home to watch the Browns debacle I am probably better off not having to endure the pain and frustration of actually watching the game. I am probably better off just catching the score afterwards. If a diehard can have those feelings what is the casual fan doing?
Am I perfect? No
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Quote:
Seems to me that when I was reading this website just 4-6 weeks ago there were season ticket holders who didn't want to go to the game and had trouble finding anybody to give the tickets away to. If that isn't a sign of alienating the fan base I don't know what is. Or am I mis-remembering those posts???
Mis-remembering..............I think it's more about mis-interpreting.
Let's go back 4-6 weeks (I don't recall those posts, but that doesn't mean they didn't exist. So, for the sake of arguement, let's go with that line of thinking as factual).
Would you set aside a Sunday......in the middle of winter......pay 5 bucks for parking......5 bucks for a cold hot-dog.........5 bucks for a flat beer........more money at half-time while sitting out in the dead of winter.......and all just to watch Ken Dorsey lead a team to zero touchdowns?
Nah, me neither
I'll be honest: You couldn't give me free food, a free ticket, and free parking to sit out in the cold and watch a Ken Dorsey-led team get their asses kicked. That's why people couldn't give tickets away.
Furthermore, what happens at the end of every year when this team is out of the hunt, a lame-duck HC is doing his best stoic-statue impression on the sidelines, and we all know a change is coming? The fan-base is miserable and people vent on message boards.
Otto, this is to you as well man. Yeah, there were empty seats, primarily because of what is listed above. What you DON'T see are blackout threats in Cleveland while the season is in full swing. Why? Because all the seats are sold out. So if all the seats are sold out, how can the fan-base be considered in the light that's y'all believe it to be?
The answer is it can't.
The fans are angry because, due to injury, they got stuck watching a clip-board toter lead the offense to embarassment. If it were Quinn out there, you can bet many more people would have been interested to watch him. So is that alientating them, or is it a case of not wanting to fight the cold for no good reason?
When the team can't sell tickets before the season starts, THAT'S when you'll know the fans have had enough of the organization.
Whatever the fans may think about Lerner's ability to lead this organization, the fans haven't jumped ship because they all believe one thing: He's willing to do whatever it takes to win. It's easy to forgive mistakes on his part because we all know he's opened up the checkbook and is making the moves many feel necessary. He's paid big bucks for players. He's bumped up against the cap. He's given coaches and GM's contract extensions for the sake of "continuity." What he hasn't done is win, which is why people are unhappy. However, unlike the Bidwells and Fords and Mike Brown's of the league, Lerner isn't a miser and he isn't an idiot, and because of the that, the fans continue to buy tickets and avoid blackouts.
When the team can't sell tickets, THAT'S when you'll know the fan-base has become "alienated." There is a difference between frusterating and all-out revolt.
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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pay 5 bucks for parking......5 bucks for a cold hot-dog.........5 bucks for a flat beer........
Been about 20 years since you went to a game there, Toad? 
I understand the premise though, and agree with you.
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Actually, about four. It was the game where we marched out McCown against the Chargers and Brees in a blizzard in December. My brain was frozen so I've no idea what I paid for vodka and food (ok, I smuggled in food, so that should explain it *L*).
***Gordon, I really didn't think you could be this stOOpid, but you exceeded my expectations. Wussy.
Manziel, see Josh Gordon. Dumbass.***
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My brain was frozen
well that explains alot .... let me know when it thaws bro .. 
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I think we are all biased on here because we are all such die hard fans and it would really take a lot to alienate us. I am refering to the more casual fan. They may not be alienated yet but the team is becoming dangerously close to doing just that.
Let me ask you this 'toad. Do you live in Cleveland? If not when was the last time you were there during football season? I don't live in Cleveland anymore but the past few times I was there during football season and ventured out to the mall it was easier to find a Roethlisberger jersey than any Browns jersey (possibly than all the Browns jerseys put together). I personally found that disgusting.
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What Toad said. Just because they aren't writing a novel to give us every three days or exchanging trade secrets with the fan base.......... That isn't alienating anyone. Besides, buying Browns gear at the MALL?  Think you could find a place a little pricier?  Every time I make the trip I stock up on Browns gear. Never have a problem finding it. But I don't go to the mall. Ever think they were sold out? 
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Besides, buying Browns gear at the MALL?
I ask because I don't know what he meant originally....I thought he meant that people weren't wearing Browns jerseys around the mall....
Jester, did you mean to buy or what people were wearing?
#gmstrong
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Haha - I wasn't there to buy Browns gear just there shopping with Mom But no it didn't cross my mind that they were sold out. All shelves were stocked. Just to contrast, I went to Pittsburgh to attend the Browns - Steelers game (not this past season but in the 10-6 season). Everywhere had steelers gear out the wazoo and not a sniff of a Browns jersey. Just an observation take it for what you will but it indicates to me that the retailers know it is easier to sell steelers gear in either city than Browns gear.
And I don't expect the team to let me in on all it's little secrets. I am just saying they need to find a way of giving fans hope that the future will be brighter or they will lose a lot of fans. There are lots of ways they can accomplish that but just don't seem to care. In the past when we had losing teams I took solice that even with a losing record we had a well run and classy organization. I just don't feel confident in that anymore 
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On the shelves and hangers. This past year I saw about the same number of people wearing steelers gear as Browns gear. Granted I had a very limited sample size. I welcome input from those of us still living in Cleveland.
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Just curious?
Do you put more stock in talk, or action?
Because they have shown a LOT in regards to action. New HC, new OC, new DC, new GM..................
Not trying to pull the "old school" card out or anything, however....... ( you KNEW there would be a catch didn't you? )
.......... actions do speak louder than words. I believe Lerner has sent a crystal clear message that he was tired of losing and is dedicated to bringing a winner here through "his actions".
I've heard many people in my life speak empty words. And you usually figure out they're just that, empty words, by watching a person's actions.
So I'm far more about "seeing evidence" that dictates he cares than hearing him talk about it. To me, that speaks volumes.
JMHO
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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Just to contrast, I went to Pittsburgh to attend the Browns - Steelers game (not this past season but in the 10-6 season). Everywhere had steelers gear out the wazoo and not a sniff of a Browns jersey.
From my experience in buying retail, it's the item they were out of, that were the sought after items, not the items where they had plenty of stock.
But I'll submit this, what are you expecting the people in pittsburgh to spend their cash on, the Pirates? 
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From my experience in buying retail, it's the item they were out of, that were the sought after items, not the items where they had plenty of stock.
I have no retail experience but seems to mean you stock the items will sell.
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But I'll submit this, what are you expecting the people in pittsburgh to spend their cash on, the Pirates?
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Just curious?
Do you put more stock in talk, or action?
Because they have shown a LOT in regards to action. New HC, new OC, new DC, new GM..................
Not trying to pull the "old school" card out or anything, however....... ( you KNEW there would be a catch didn't you? )
.......... actions do speak louder than words. I believe Lerner has sent a crystal clear message that he was tired of losing and is dedicated to bringing a winner here through "his actions".
I've heard many people in my life speak empty words. And you usually figure out they're just that, empty words, by watching a person's actions.
So I'm far more about "seeing evidence" that dictates he cares than hearing him talk about it. To me, that speaks volumes.
JMHO
I agree that actions speak louder than words. While the actions you describe may indicate that Lerner is as tired of losing as we are, these actions have been done before - numerous times without any better results. I hope this time will prove different.
The actions I want to see are actions that show me the team treats its players, fans and employees with respect. Actions that show me they respect the legacy of the team. Actions that show me that the 2 steelers game each year are not just 2 games on the schedule like the other 14 are. And I want to see actions that show me the organization is being run competantly (too early for this administration but a clear failure of the prior ones) and making strides toward making this a quality team both on the field and off.
Is that asking too much?
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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