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Ya .. outstanding DnD ... truely outstanding ...  I agree DnD that he would be a moron to answer those questions now .. for a plethora of reasons ... but FUTURE TRADE VALUE certain is not one of them ... cause U know what ... when a team calls inquiring about DA ... do u think were going to get more for him if we say .... "U know what ... we decided on him as our starter .. hes are man .. but for U we'll consider it ... Naaa .. the 2nd isn't good enough .. we want a first BUT ONLY CAUSE HES OUR GUY .. " .. Ya OK .. *L* .. good thing for U theres posters like this around to slap your back and tell U your a genius (witch U are ... just not in this case) .. when your making no sense what so ever .... future value .. *LOL* ... thanks bro .. that was a good one ... Psst ... I'll bet sometime before anything happens that its clear who are QB is ..... and it will not decrease the value of the other by any stretch ...
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pit - to be honest, i have no idea what's going on between our exchanges but it's clear there's some sort of miscommunication going on. from your last post, i think you're accusing me of wanting more information and a decision on a qb? that's not teh stance i was taking at all. in the beginning, i was merely asking if his quote "we will have two qbs on the roster" had a LITERAL meaning, as in, we will only hold two qbs on our roster, not three like we used to. aside from that, daman and the others have cleared that up for me as i understand now the prior question implied possibly having two starters and coke replied with "well we'll have two qbs on the roster, that's for sure." that makes sense to me now.
the only comment that had anything related to who should be a starter was that i was hoping for a qb battle. i see no ambiguity anywhere so i don't really understand your reply.
your "what if" scenario is an obvious one. you don't need to educate me on something like that. please let me know what happened here because i'm still scratching my head over this exchange.
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i don't want to turn this into a DA thread but i don't want to leave your question unanswered. short answer would be that DA wouldn't have any motivation for doing so. the easy route would be to take the bonus that's guaranteed and if that's what he'd prefer, we dont' want him as our qb anyways. if DA really wants to be a top qb though, he'd remember the success he had in 07 and think of his familiarity with the browns and cleveland and who knows, maybe that's enough to get him to stay. who knows.
realistically, DA is traded though and that's fine by me. it's about time we give a qb more than a season and a half to progress and i don't care who that qb is as long as it's not dorsey.
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All Pro
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"While I still don't feel that League experience and Friendships are a substitute for Actual experience and success as a GM in the NFL....What's done is done and I wish Mr. Kokinis well ....Go Browns ! .... " ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That being said , I still have to wonder IF Mr. Lerner actually get it ....As an example , we clean house and add an experienced HC in Mangini who has had success in the NFL , IMHO a great move , especially considering our past screw ups  ....However , after claiming that Mr. Savage might have been in over his head as GM and also stating that there was a difference of opinion over management style....Mr. Lerner goes out and hires Kokinis(Mangini support set aside for the moment....) who is just as inexperienced as a NFL GM as Mr. Savage was and who comes off the same management tree as Mr. Savage , both having served under Ozzie in Baltimore....IMHO it should follow that both Savage & Kokinis would have learned the same management style from Ozzie and that if the inexperience factor didn't work for Mr. Savage that it probably won't work for Mr. Kokinis....** Now let me move on to the Patriots who have had their Talent Pool depleted with the loss of Pioli....What was their solution ?....They added Floyd Reese as a Senior Advisor  , who IMHO is the guy we should have signed as GM all along....TO succeed in the NFL on a regular basis you must have experienced individuals who have had success in the role that they are hired for in the NFL.....So far I think we are only half way there with the hiring of Mangini....
The Mammal
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R U JUST STUPID???...Maybe STUCK on STUPID???...Name a QB today and the other's value DROPS OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH...As in RELEASE versus TRADE...
These dumbasses need to flippen THINK once in awhile...
That was from your post.
The following was from mine.......
Quote:
What if Koke would have said, "BQ will be our guy!"
Now he would have just let 31 other teams know that DA is expendable to you. His value just dropped. How wise would that be?
If we weren't dolts and ostriches, we may have just made a valid point!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
please let me know what happened here because i'm still scratching my head over this exchange.
Maybe this will help.....................
Quote:
back on kokinis though, i really hope to hear about our roster though it seems we're taking that turn towards secrecy, which would be pretty brutal.
ANYTHING said about our roster right now would be tipping our hand to 31 other teams. If, for example, we have a DL player who would fit better in the 4-3 that other teams may be interested in, if you let it be known you're planning to address that, how does that effect trading him?
I mean, if you plan to replace him, wouldn't teams be wise to wait instead of giving you something in exchange for him?
So I think any "roster comments" would be kind of getting ahead of themselves at this juncture.
And don't let anybody fool you. If you KNOW a team is planning on "dumping" a player, their value decreases. It would take a dolt to think otherwise......... ( not you per say )
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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ahhh i see, i should've clarified that earlier. what i meant wasn't that he should tell us about the roster right now at this time, but after the offseason or eventually. what i can't wait to hear, if coke is allowed to talk about it, is his take on the state of our roster at this time, in the future. i agree that any comments about players that we have now, particularly ones that we plan on moving, would diminish any value.
my comment on secrecy was that, with mangini, we may not ever hear much about our roster at this present time in terms of evaluation because of how secretive mangini is.
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Practice Squad
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ahhh i see, i should've clarified that earlier. what i meant wasn't that he should tell us about the roster right now at this time, but after the offseason or eventually. what i can't wait to hear, if coke is allowed to talk about it, is his take on the state of our roster at this time, in the future. i agree that any comments about players that we have now, particularly ones that we plan on moving, would diminish any value.
my comment on secrecy was that, with mangini, we may not ever hear much about our roster at this present time in terms of evaluation because of how secretive mangini is.
'
Wait what? It looks like you are scrambling here to cover up an obvious error on your part. You want answers right now as a fan, without realizing it's not just fans watching the press conference, there is 31 other team in the league interested in what he says about players. 
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Psst ... I'll bet sometime before anything happens that its clear who are QB is ..... and it will not decrease the value of the other by any stretch .
Psst...Are u TRYIN' to join the "Clueless-Dolt" Club???
Hopefully u didn't get sucked into that "Browns take the Cap Hit regardless what they do with Anderson" thing that Florio spewed a couple weeks ago...Cause that ain't how it works...
Every team in the NFL knows this Roster Bonus is due March 15th...FA and the Trading bonanza begins the 27th of February...
Tell me this "GENIOUS"...
If the Browns name Quinn the 2009 Starting QB in February...If you're the GM of Minny...Do u initiate Trade Scenarios BEFORE March 15th and that RB being due???...Or...Do u WAIT 2 weeks till a decision is made to see if the Browns PAY that RB???...
IF you're a smart GM...U WAIT for one simple reason...If it's NOT paid on the 15th Anderson becomes a FREE AGENT IMMEDIATELY...No compensation to Cleveland...If Quinn is announced as the starter it makes it pretty clear to ME that we have zero intention of paying this RB to Anderson...VALUE of a trade may not diminish but u bet your ass that the LIKELIHOOD of a trade virtually DISAPPEARS...And THAT is just as good as diminshed trade value...
Any team that trades for Anderson will sign him to a new contract...They won't take this crazy contract that has 2 years left with a 10+M Cap Hit in 2009 when they can SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER the 09 hit with a new contract...
The smartest thing to do here is to keep this starting QB UN-NAMED until after the 15th of March...And by the time the 1st Mini-Camp rolls around we'll know who our QB is...Cause the Anderson fiasco will have been dealt with...Unless we pay the RB and do it during the draft...Which I can't believe Lerner would do because he just tossed 5M in the toilet...
You're not a very good Poker Player r ya'???...I'm having a 7 man game tonight...BE THERE... 
Go Browns!!!
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what type of O can he AFFECTIVELY run??? .. thats my question U must really think I'm a Dolt..put it simply...NONE...and U already know that Dolt 
Last edited by Attack Dawg; 01/28/09 09:26 AM.
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Thanks for clearing that up dong. I think you can see why I misunderstood your intent from the above quote. DinD Sometimes ya just gotta spell it out for em'.......
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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"Attack .. I know what U and tabber and pretty much every poster on here thinks of him .. what i want to know is
what type of O can he AFFECTIVELY run???"
Him? Who is him...if you are talking about Big Red that a pretty clueless question...what type of O can he run???
It just occurred to me you might just be talking about DA - on a Kokinis thread???
I think DA could run a Cameron type of offense - one that would have 7 in the box and minimal pressure. Any move the chains sustain drives type of offense which is the NFL standard I believe these days DA would fail in. Just too inconsistent. I happen to think DA is a decent Red Zone QB...his problem is getting into the Red Zone.
JMHO 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
what type of O can he AFFECTIVELY run??? .. thats my question
U must really think I'm a Dolt..put it simply...NONE...and U already know that Dolt
Is diam asking what kinda of O that Kokinis could Effectively run? cause, I didn't think he would be running any... what did I miss... I must be a dolt?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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"However , after claiming that Mr. Savage might have been in over his head as GM and also stating that there was a difference of opinion over management style....Mr. Lerner goes out and hires Kokinis(Mangini support set aside for the moment....) who is just as inexperienced as a NFL GM as Mr. Savage was and who comes off the same management tree as Mr. Savage , both having served under Ozzie in Baltimore."
Again you believe what the media says RANDY, thinks and says as some actual quote from Randy...they are guessing and mostly in a negative way cause they dislike somebody who is shy of the media...no sound bites. But they love guys like Herm Edwards  or Jones as an owner.
But what you stated as a thought and quote from Randy...is simply FALSE 
The only quote I heard and it was not a direct quote but "HEARSAY" from another party. Regarding Randy on Savage... He listened to Savage on Sunday and didn't like the Direction that he wanted to lead us. Thats the only thing I heard...nothing about experience an other garbage like that...I heard that garbage from the media - which many here seem to hail as the "GOSPEL" or something...Oooooo its in print it must be fact
Not laughing at you...laughing at the media.
Floyd Reese??? You know you all think that Mangini is a clone of Belicheck...he has a lot of similarities and core beliefs...but he is not the CZAR of the Browns like Belicheck is. What is good for Bill might not be good for Eric.
What maybe Mangini needs more than anything is a strong young Personnel guy that he can trust as a RH man into this project. If that guy is Kokinis so be it.
You guys and Diam...chime in too with your negativity if you must but how bout bringing some facts to the discussion not your Pessimistic therefore I'm Realistic values 
But you guys fail to recognize...there were deemed by one of the best Corner men in the business so to say. One who actually built something not one with experience like Reese. One Ernie Accorsi who labeled 3 youngens as up and comers in the GM ranks.
Dimitroff, Heckert and Kokinis.
It is not this Oh he is Brown so he must be good. Its YES, hes a Brown but he was Labeled Good long before that!
Belicheck needs somebody to hold his brief case and maybe hold some meetings in his absence. Mangini needs a Partner in this!
yeah...tell me the experience of the Steelers HC and GM
tell me the experience of the Cardinals HC and GM
Last years Giants...HC and first time GM???
Can you name me the GMs of either the Steelers or Zona without looking it up?
Steelers use a 3 headed team for a GM...Colbert, Whaley and Hughes.
Zona...Graves...who essentially has been with Zona like forever. Not known for anything great - I guess he got hit by the Genius Stick this season...Pwang. Of course their success had nothing to do with Wisenhunt
But the kicker in your theory was the 07 Champions NY Giants. A rookie GM and its not like he took over a ready team. A big part of their success was who/what he did in his rookie year.
Reese...he has won just what. The get my team in Cap Hell award  and I'm talking about the Reese you wanted here not the young guy in NY.
What I see from some negatives is frustration so that anything...and trust me ANYTHING we would have done would mean disaster.
So for you...we were half right. But was I don't see is the Recognition of building a TEAM - so far so good. Its not about All Star picks and thats also true with the Staff as well as players. Its about the mesh of the "TEAM" to get a goal achieved.
No, its not an automatic. But we are difinitely heading in the right direction.
Show me why we aren't and so far nobody has. Just grading of a paper and taking points off for grammer and spelling not the core of the essay though
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Belicheck needs somebody to hold his brief case and maybe hold some meetings in his absence. Mangini needs a Partner in this!
Dead wrong..Bellyache needs someone to hold a camera and spy on opponents practices
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U know what tabber ... I know diddly about the dude ... so i won't praise or bash him (watch yourself GM ... some of the clueless homers and doom and gloomers get upset when u call them clueless .... trust me .... i have first hand knowledge of thatone .. *L*) ...
but one thing that does have me scratching my head ... a quote from U ....
Quote:
Then he spelled out that before he could assess our QB situation he would have to know what Daboll and Smith wanted from their QB to run our offense. Until he knew that he couldn't begin to provide input on the subject.
your mission is to convince me WHAT TYPE OF O THAT DA COULD RUN AFFECTIVELY ....
and I'm serious ... that is not a ball breakin set up .. i would really like to know .. Good luck with that one ....
theres my initial post to U tabber ... U brought up how Coke handled a question .. that makes it fair game .. I then asked U a DIRECT QUESTION THAT IS CLEAR AS DAY ... why the response like I was being VAGUE .. it says DA RIGHT IN MY QUESTION ...
I'm hopin U just didn't read far enough back as that fell in between my response and your last response to dong I believe .. so maybe u missed it ...
I know your not anything like DA MAN IS HOT so I will show u the respect U have earned on here ...
as for your answer ....
Quote:
I think DA could run a Cameron type of offense - one that would have 7 in the box and minimal pressure.
so the O he can run is based on the D cooperating and letting him do what he is good at ... thats what i figured .. *L* ... DA is a PERFECT STORM QB ... if everything is perfect around him he can kick some butt .. if not .. hes done ...
sorry bro ... 1 of 2 things happend here .. and it has nutting to do with Coke having to find out whay type of O Daboll and Smith want to run ... he does not have to talk to them at all .. they ALL KNOW who will be the starter and who will be shipped ...
what they have to figure out is WHAT THEY CAN GET FOR HIM and if it is WORTH IT TO KEEP HIM AROUND as a back up vs what we can get for him in a trade ...
if they have to figure out anything else .. were $CREWED ... *L* ....
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DA would be a great fit in Minnesota.
1. They have a great running game (AP and Chester)
2. good deep threats (Berrian and Rice)
3. solid OL (great for run blocking, slightly above average pass blocking)
Also:
*** They wanted Favre last offseason, so they don't mind a few careless INTs.
*** Even Derek Anderson is more consistent than Tavaris Jackson.
#gmstrong
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Psst...Are u TRYIN' to join the "Clueless-Dolt" Club???
Not only am I a member i am the PRESIDENT!!! .... 
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Hopefully u didn't get sucked into that "Browns take the Cap Hit regardless what they do with Anderson" thing that Florio spewed a couple weeks ago...Cause that ain't how it works...
What he says makes no sense to me ... but lots of things about contracts that get done make no sense to me ... so i have NO CLUE if what Florio was spewing is true or not .. NOR DO I CARE ...
bouncing ball bro .... its all about FOLLOWING THE BOUNCING BALL ...
I'll play first and then direct your attention to the bouncing ball .. then I will lead U to the water ... weather U drink it or not is up to U .. but u will have all the info needed to have a good thirst quenching drink ...
Quote:
If the Browns name Quinn the 2009 Starting QB in February
1. We very well may do that ...
2. EVERYONE in the league knows he will be our starting QB weather we make it OFFICIAL OR NOT ...
3. U do not believe were going to have a meeting with DA and BQ and let them know what are plans are sometime in FEB. .. and once we do that .... U do not think that DA is not going to tell his agent and there not going to formulate a plan for what ever happens .. I mean here are the scenarios and what DA will more than likely do ...
A. We tell DA hes the starter ....
B. We tell him there will be a comp ... if that happens he will more than likely stay here ... and if it does .. THERE WILL BE NO TRADE before 3/15 ... unless U think were going to flat out lie to him ...
C. We tell him BQ is our boy and were going to try and trade U ... this is what we want for U .... If we don't get it by 3/15 ... the price will go up or U will be here as a back up for the next year at least ... U think if we tell him that his agent will not be on the phone trying to make a deal with someone toot-sweet ...
D. BQ is our boy and if we can't trade U by 3/14 .. we will CUT U ... and u question my poker skill ...
this is nothing like poker unless U play at a place where everyone else gets there hole cards dealt up but U ... CAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS WHO OUR QB IS NOW ... its no secret ... and no amount of "spinning" will change that ...
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If you're the GM of Minny...Do u initiate Trade Scenarios BEFORE March 15th and that RB being due???...Or...Do u WAIT 2 weeks till a decision is made to see if the Browns PAY that RB???...
If I want DA I do ... do i want to give up a 1st or 2nd rnd pick for him .. NOPE .. I sure don't ... but i know that Cleveland is just not going to let him walk .. NOT A SHOT IN HELL ... plus if he walks .. now I have to potentially deal with outbidding him with the following teams ...
1. KC
2. TB
3. Jets
4. Buffalo
5. Miami
6. Chicago
7. Detroit
8. Carolina
9. SF ...
now there are a couple FA's that may fit the bill here .... Garcia ... Cassell ... and I believe theres one more decent QB available ... so I may go after one of these guys for NO COMP ... but if I get none of them .. HMMMM ... INTERESTING DILEMMA I'm faced with ...
now it becomes a matter of how much I want DA ... and guess what here menZa .. WEATHER CLEVELAND MAKES IT OFFICIAL OR NOT ... as the GM of Minni .. I know BQ is there starter ... and I know they are not going to just let him walk ... I mean if my decisions are as follows:
1. Pay the $$ or let him walk ...
2. don't pay the $$ and cut him ...
then I'm pretty sure come 3/13 there going to let him go for alot less than they may like ... and again ... IT MAKES NO DIFF WEATHER WE NAME BQ THE STARTER OR NOT ...
U sure u wanna play poker with me?? ...
heres what it boils down to bro ....
what value does DA have to us pre 3/15 vs what we can trade him for ...
thats todays question ..... then ...
what value does DA have to us 3/16 vs what we can trade him for ...
weather we name BQ the starter or not is irrelivent ... everyone all ready knows the answer to that question ... and its just a matter of what someone is willing to give up for DA .. and 3/15 and the 5 mill do not play into that at all ... cause anyone that wants him ... is going to come after him or not ... there not going to wait around until 3/15 for 2 reasons ...
1. they know were not just going to let him walk .. QB's are a rare commodity in this league ...
2. if by some chance we did let him go .. lots of teams would get real interested, real quick ...
and if there not willing to give up a 1st or 2nd (my guess is no one is willing to do that at any time for him ... his trade value got shot last year) for him they really don't want him ....
that should be clear as mud now .. *L* ..
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I didn't want to start a whole new "Phil Savaged Fired" thread so I thought I'd stick this in here... Quote:
TAMPA -- In his first official comments since losing his job as Browns general manager, Phil Savage said, "I don't want to talk about it."
Savage poked his head into the Super Bowl media center and was chagrined to see a Cleveland reporter bird-dogging him.
Here's how the five-minute conversation went:
Me: "So tell me what happened?"
Savage: "You'd have to figure that out."
Me: "You had to be surprised at how abruptly it ended for you."
Savage: "Nothing surprises anybody in this league. I think I was more surprised that we trade for Shaun Rogers, he has the year that he had and we go 4-12. That's more surprising to me."
Me: "So what happened to cause that 4-12?"
Savage: "I really don't want to talk. I hope you can appreciate that. It's in the past. Maybe one day."
Me: "How do you feel about George Kokinis replacing you as Browns GM?"
Savage: (no response).
Me: "What are you plans now?"
Savage: "I don't know yet. Obviously I'm looking around, checking into a lot of different areas. I'm a football guy. I've worked 22 years in a row. I enjoy football. I love the sport. It's something I've always done. I certainly would want to stay close to it."
Me: "Have the Detroit Lions talked to you about joining their organization?"
Savage: "I've talked to a lot of teams. I'll leave it at that."
Me: "Can the Browns win next year?"
Savage: "I don't know. It's someone else's concern now."
Me: "C'mon, you had to be shocked at the way everything went down."
Savage: "I don't know what to say other than I really don't want to talk about it now."
Tony Grossi
Seems pretty low budget to do something like this. Savage obviously didn't want to talk. Maybe the reporters are so desperate for a story they are talking to the old GM.
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I agree ... he'd be a good as fit as he can possibly be in Minni (he really fits no where .. ) ... they have about as close to the perfect storm as your going to get ....
were going to find out just how much interest over the next 6 weeks ... we'll also see how much pull Childress has casue he's coaching for his job ... so U know he wants DA as its prolly more than likely his job is contingent upon him getting a QB in there ..
Cassell and Garcia would also be good options there .... and is there another decent potential FA QB I am forgetting .. I think there is ... maybe DA is the one I can't remember .. *L* ..
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If I remember last year Minni inquired about DA ..but it was a low profile thing..something I stumbled across but not a lot was made from it..it could happen again this year..
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"I then asked U a DIRECT QUESTION THAT IS CLEAR AS DAY ... why the response like I was being VAGUE .. it says DA RIGHT IN MY QUESTION"
hmmmm Diam you got Cabin Fever or something???
vague??? here is your exact quote...not a what I thought was the quote...the exact "QUOTE". and I'm putting your entire post so not as to miss anything.
"WOW ... what a genius it took not to fall for that remarkably concealed ruse of a question .....ALL HAIL COKE ....Gotta love the honeymoon ... short of this guy coming to one of your houses and crapping in it he will get tons of love for doing pretty much nuttin ... but thats OK ... as the other side will be crucyifin for how he says hello ... so i guess it all evens out .. *L* ...
Attack .. I know what U and tabber and pretty much every poster on here thinks of him .. what i want to know is
what type of O can he AFFECTIVELY run??? .. thats my question ...
Not only did you not MENTION DA!!!! You didn't even mention the word QB in there...all you did was talk about Kokinis and then asked your question. And it read more you asking what Offense Kokinis ran not DA cause you might of thought you put DA in there...all you wrote was "HE"...and I asked..
Who is "HE"...then I figured it out DA...but trust me it was a freakin puzzle...
"so the O he can run is based on the D cooperating and letting him do what he is good at"
ummm...yep. I didn't say you would like it...you asked me a question and I answered you. But thats my assessment I don't think too highly of DA as our future QB. Actually I've been saying that in not so vague terms for like 2 years now. You get DA to move laterally and he's dead.
He's great dropping back and stepping forward into a pocket. You asked me what kind of O I think he can effectively run and I did.
Perfect Storm...call it what you may...I have gone one step further and called it a Comfort Zone. When he's in it - he's actually a very good QB. Well the only time I've seen him consistently in that Zone is under those conditions.
Your obsession with BQ is too much. As for them stating which one is the starter or not. I've already gone on record that Mangini and Kokinis will not want to name a starter until after the draft. Cause if they name BQ then DA's value could drop.
I don't understand what you want from me in a post??? I'm not going to put BQ in the HOF...Pro-Bowl...even All time Browns QB greats...YET. I hope to see all that. But its a long road ahead of him.
Heck he won't be the starter till after April. And if we still didn't deal DA we will maybe keep an open competition open for a while to possibly move him???
But its not written in stone. Do I think he is? yep. Never said different.
Do I think Mangini, Daboll and Kokinis think BQ is the starter... Yep.
You seem to take offense that I quoted what Kokinis responded to the QB question. I don't understand what the heck you are upset about. Thats what he said. Then you get all mad and start with the Offense DA can run. Like I'm saying he's going to pick DA...lol 
ease up there.
anyways...take care of Ole Buck up there and get over the Cabin Fever... 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Not going to adress the rest on here as there is obviously a mis-communication going on here .. just wanna say one thing ... Quote:
I've already gone on record that Mangini and Kokinis will not want to name a starter until after the draft. Cause if they name BQ then DA's value could drop.
how is his value going to drop ... EVERYONE KNOWS IT .... just because they don't announce it does not mean everyone does not know it ...
its like when your kid is at the age where he is 98% sure that santa does not exist but he wants to play the game and have U believe he does cause he figures he will get more presents that way ... and U know he knows but go along with just in case ... that and the fact U don't want that joy to slip away ..
its the same thing .. EVERYONE KNOWS ....
DA's value is in no way contingent upon us "hiding" it from anyone .. they all ready know .. his value is strictly contingent upon two things ...
1. How much said team wants him ....
2, what is he worth to us ...
everyone knows BQ is going to be the starter ... they can say what they want ...
I mean seriously ... lets say Minni calls us to talk about DA ... here is the how u suggest the convo will go ...
Minni ... Hey were interested in a trade for DA ...
Coke .... OK .. I'm listeneing ...
Minni ... Were willing to part with a 4th rounder this year ...
Coke ... Well he may be our starter so we will need more than that ...
Minni .... Oh OK ... we'll give U a 1st in that case cause we believe that to be true ..
please bro ... when push comes to shove .. EVERYONE KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON HERE ... in my scenario ... heres what happens ...
Coke ... Well he may be our starter so we'll need more than that ...
Minni .... *uncontrallable laughter* followed by "hey guys .. hes trying to drive up the trade value by saying DA may be the starter" ... *more uncontrollable laughter throughout the room* .....
sorry bro ... the cat is out of the bag .... the I's are dotted and the T's are crossed ... the mustard's on the ham .. the lid is off the jar .. EVERYONE KNOWS ....
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Heck Diam even this Dolt knows BQ is our starter, but did you have to drag Santa into this?
nordawg
The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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"2, what is he worth to us ."
And that is what teams have to figure out. If we give no indication that DA is our Back up they will try to always get a player as cheap as they can regardless of their needs. Its not a Favre situation where Green Bay KNOWS he's their Special ONE and when we say...ummm first round pick and they jump at it. No there is no mistake of prowess at that degree but I think your are wrong in the NFL wide Assessment of DA. But not naming him a starter could mean the difference in a 2nd round pick and a 3rd round pick. Cause the Value of LEVERAGE drops a bit in trade negotiations.
Not everyone is as certain of DA's NONE WORTH as you seem to be. I too don't think that highly of him. But I also know that he is young has shown some glimpses of good things (far n few between). As much as I don't like him as a QB I think he's a good Red Zone QB - he is not a Dorsey. He could be an asset to a team. And one thing I know exists in the NFL...is the coaches ego of ---- Well I CAN MAKE HIM BETTER. He has value and if we can create any edge in a trade we will do so.
Its not a big edge but enough to not name or indicate who is the starter. Camps don't really start with any meaning what so ever until after FAgency impact in March and the Draft in April. There is absolutely no need to show your hand. And I'm sorry to say no where as conclusive as you state and this coming from a guy who really has never been enamored by DA.
As far as your take on Minnie...yeah thats exactly what I was suggesting would transpire. Thank your making that so realistic and non biased to your views.
1. There better be more than one team in the running. Supply and Demand Diam its as old...as old...well as old as the oldest business in the world
2. Sure if we don't create a dead weight scenario it could give some leverage in negotiations. But don't paint my view as ludicrous as them going from a 4th round pick to a first. How subjective is that?
I think it could be the difference of a 3rd rounder to a 2nd. Especially draft day.
JMHO... oh btw I totally missed your post on page 3 as it was done time wise close to my post to dong and so that I didn't see it at all. My Bad 
Hopefully you saw my confused attitude from reading your post on the top of Page 4? But within one sentence I still figured it out
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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This is a league where Rex Grossman gets 7th and 8th chances, where Damon Damon Huard and Brodie Croyle start games, and where Tavaris Jackson starts a playoff game and the teams' fans are wondering why they don't pull him for freaking Gus Frerotte.
With that said I think we can get at least a 3rd round pick for Derek Anderson. Regardless of his situation in Cleveland. I can count eight teams (Jets, Lions, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Panthers, Buccaneers, and 49ers) who possibly need a new starting QB next season. And two teams (Rams, Seahawks) who have aging starters who need a quality backup.
One of those teams mentioned above won't want to risk having Derek Anderson released and not being able to get him.
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Quote:
how is his value going to drop ... EVERYONE KNOWS IT .... just because they don't announce it does not mean everyone does not know it ...
How does EVERYONE KNOW IT???...
Quinn was drafted in the 1st by SAVAGE...Quinn was named 2009 STARTER by???
New regime dude...We don't have a clue what Mangini and Koke think right now...FACT...
No other team in the League has a clue either...FACT...
What makes u think they KNOW ALREADY???...Seriously...
There's no "Slick Tricks" goin' on here...IT IS WHAT IT IS...New regime...2 QB's...One a Pro Bowler 1 year removed...The other a #1 pick in a draft...This thing is WIDE OPEN and I PRAY PRAY PRAY u don't get deflated by these guys naming ANDERSON the QB of this team...PLEASE NO...No...No...No...
There's no way in hell these teams ALREADY KNOW...U "DOLT"...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
there may be some team dumb enough to give us a 1st or 2nd rounder for DA ... but that will be because ...
1. there dumb as hell and there ego's got in there way ... there enamored with his physical tools and think they can make him accurate and smarter (making better decisions with the ball) ...
Dumb???...NO...
Enamored???...YES...
U just pounced on it...PHYSICAL TOOLS...Possibility of working with him and making him a better QB...
DEMAND...That's the key...And Cassell may very well be FRANCHISED in NE...And that can lead to a semi-bidding war...And I see SEVEN teams right off the bat that would be interested...This league is ALL EGO...Tell me someone out there doesn't think they can make Anderson a REAL QB...
1)Detroit
2)Carolina
3)Minny
4)Jets
5)Seattle
6)Tampa
7)Chicago
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
How does EVERYONE KNOW IT???...
Quinn was drafted in the 1st by SAVAGE...Quinn was named 2009 STARTER by???
New regime dude...We don't have a clue what Mangini and Koke think right now...FACT...
No other team in the League has a clue either...FACT...
What makes u think they KNOW ALREADY???...Seriously...
I don't know ... so many reasons to choose from ... I'll start with the general one and if u need me to I will be more speicific ...
watching the games the last two years is a good place to start ....
Quote:
New regime...2 QB's...One a Pro Bowler 1 year removed
*LOL* .. can't believe Uhad the gaul to actually put that in print .. for over a year now I've watched U DESTROY POSTERS that said that .... rip them to shreds ... now that it fits your agenda its a damm fine reason .. *LOL* ,,,, never expected that from U ...
Quote:
This thing is WIDE OPEN and I PRAY PRAY PRAY u don't get deflated by these guys naming ANDERSON the QB of this team...PLEASE NO...No...No...No...
Deflated ... I'll be way past deflated .. if these guys choose DA I will be CONVINCED we made a HORRIBLE move in bringing this team in ... All i will do is rip them and call them idiots ..... why?? .. cause thats what they would ne ... anyone who can't see what DA does and DOESN'T bring to the table oughta be looking for work ...
Dude .. U know it .. I know it ... EVERYONE KNOWS IT ...
seriously DnD .. if they named DA the starter .. what would your feelings be on that?? .. would it make any sense to U ...
this has nuttin to do with who has what invested in who .. and everything to do with what DA has shown on the field over the last 2 years .. its not that hard bro ... again .. BE HONEST when U tell me what U would think of Jeannie/Coke if they chose DA ...
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DEMAND...That's the key
Ya ,... I get that ... its what i said in the first or 2nd post on this page ... did U just copy and paste my teams of interest and omit KC and Buff and add Seattle just for craps and giggles .. *L* ..
and i said DEMAND will dictate what we get for him alot more than some mythical shot he has of starting for us next year ... unless ... unless ... U think Coke has any of that "fairy dust" so he can make the other GM's believe that ..
Quote:
And Cassell may very well be FRANCHISED in NE
that'll fill one job .. that leaves 2 or 3 SERIOUS BIDDERS ....
Minni .. Chicago .. Carolina ... Jets (ASSuming Favre don't come back) all have other things in place that coulod make them feel the window is open for them .. the rest all have majot holes and rebuilding .. there picks are way more important than a QB like DA ...
well OK ... U can possibly throw TB in there to ...
but Cassel will only fill one job even if he is not franchised (and my guess is they franchise him and then trade him for less that the franchise requires .. ) ..
the other one to watch out for is Warner ... he needs to stay in Zona .. and he is really upset about 500,000 and will want that made up .. and the Bidwells are BRUTAL ... they may not do it .. in that case he could very easily end up in chi - town ...
but thats only 2 spots ... so that leaves 2 or 3 POTENTIAL landing spots for him ..
DEMAND DEMAND DEMAND ....
Quote:
Tell me someone out there doesn't think they can make Anderson a REAL QB...
are u looking for an answer other than ANYONE WITH A BRAIN .... cause that about sums it up for me.. *L* ..
SF needs a QB .. Coach Mike has said so .. but no way will he take some one like DA .. NO WAY IN HELL ...
I doubt that Seattle would .. theres a bunch of teams that would have no interest in DA .... CAUSE THEY GET IT ...
well at least not as a starter and giving up a 1st or 2nd rnd pick to get him .. theres prolly 3 maybe 4 teams that fall in that category ... and the fewer QB's out of this group that make it to FA the better ...
Garcia ... Cassel .... Warner ..
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"And Cassell may very well be FRANCHISED in NE...And that can lead to a semi-bidding war."
You heard it here first...the rich get richer.
watch who is going to end up with the 3rd pick in this draft...thats right the Pats trading the franchised rights to KC for their first round pick Overall #3.
The Pats are forever pulling something out of their butt...sure last year they lost their 31st pick...ooooo wow. Meanwhile for trading their 28th or something like that to the 49ers so they could pick Joe Staley they ended up with a top 10 pick and Mayo for their LB stud
Well it comes down to Cassell being the real deal? if so No way Pioli takes a chance on Sanchez...he'll trade the pick and get Cassell.
JMHO
Diam I really don't think it written in stone what we are doing. Even if most of us who know the team backwards and forwards think its a NO BRAINER...its not written anywhere as much as you think.
Young, 25, 27 starts of experience...excellent arm...Some success. Loads of good film on him especially in the Red Zone.
Me I'd be happy with a 2nd rounder. First??? That is something I'm not even thinking about.
Is making BQ the starter or not the KEY ingredient which just because I say we won't cause there is possible leverage even small. Absolutely not...Its on the list but not even close to top 3 variables. But that doesn't mean we should. There is no, none, zilch, zip, nada benefit to name a starter before the draft. I will be surprised if we did so.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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How can you think Detroit and Kansas City are set at QB? Especially with new head coaches and GM's coming in. Detroit has Orlovsky, Culpepper, and Drew Stanton. KC has Thigpen, Huard, and Croyle.
And how can you think Buffalo doesn't have their QB when they have Trent Edwards and the same head coach (Dick Jauron) as last season?
Also, Cassell will be franchised. But if the Patriots are uncertain about the health of Tom Brady's knee, there is no way they trade Cassell.
Like I said before I can count eight teams (Jets, Lions, Bears, Vikings, Chiefs, Panthers, Buccaneers, and 49ers) who possibly need a new starting QB next season. And two teams (Rams, Seahawks) who have aging starters who need a quality backup.
Someone will trade for Derek Anderson because he has had success on the NFL level and they don't want to risk us cutting him and have him go to a different team. We will get at least a 3rd round pick
A similar situation to this one is when Daunte Culpepper was traded from the Vikings to the Dolphins after a major knee injury. Culpepper's career record with the Vikings was 37-40, yet the Dolphins traded a 2nd round pick for him even though it was unclear if his knee was healing properly after tearing his ACL, MCL, and PCL.
Derek Anderson has had one above average season and one below average season. He went 10-5 as a starter last season and 3-6 as a starter this season, giving him a combined record of 13-11. He ended the season with a minor knee injury.
I don't think Derek Anderson will be our QB next season. But I don't know. My gut feeling is he will be traded. I think we will get at least a 3rd round pick for him because he has the tools to be a starting QB in the NFL and that by itself is valuable. But he also has game experience and has had success on the NFL level which makes him even more valuable.
With that said, I don't think a team will give us more for Anderson because we haven't announced who our starting QB is. I think teams will give us something for Anderson because they think he can start in the NFL.
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Quote:
How can you think Detroit and Kansas City are set at QB? Especially with new head coaches and GM's coming in.
I nevere said that dude .... READ ... I said they do need QB's but will not be a serious trade partent cause they have LOTS OF OTHER PROBLEMS ... big difference there ...
and dude ... if U think Edwards is the answer or that Jauron and co. are sold on him ... your DREAMING ...
Edwards was HORRIBLE last year .. and I mean HORRIBLE ... Losman played almost as good as him ... that should be all U need to know ..
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Thankfully I only got to Edwards one time,and my god was that awful.The worse display of professional qb'ing I've seen since '99.
There must have been some sort of injury he was dealing with.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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and dude ... if U think Edwards is the answer or that Jauron and co. are sold on him ... your DREAMING ...
Edwards was HORRIBLE last year .. and I mean HORRIBLE ... Losman played almost as good as him ... that should be all U need to know ..
What are you talking about?
This past season Trent Edwards went 7-7 as the starting QB with a 65.5% completion rate and a 85.4 QB rating. He threw 11 TD's and 10 INT's . Edwards was sacked 23 times in 14 games. Not HORRIBLE at all. Edwards was sacked 23 times in 14 games.
J.P. Losman started in two games (both losses by the Bills) and played in two others (both losses). In those games Losman completed 60.6% of his passes with a QB rating of 62.3. He threw 2 TD's and 5 INT's. Losman was sacked 15 in those games. That dude is HORRIBLE.
*Losman did play in one other game besides the 4 mentioned above, he ran the ball 3 times for -2 yards in a blowout against KC)
I'm sorry I didn't read where you said, "I nevere said that dude .... READ ... I said they do need QB's but will not be a serious trade partent cause they have LOTS OF OTHER PROBLEMS ... big difference there ..." mostly because I couldn't find where you said that.
But now that I've read it I disagree with it. You say they wouldn't be serious trade partners because they have lots of other problems. Well not having a QB would probably be the biggest problem. Having other problems doesn't mean they ignore their QB problem. It probably means they address that first, either through draft of a trade.
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Quote:
This past season Trent Edwards went 7-7 as the starting QB with a 65.5% completion rate and a 85.4 QB rating. He threw 11 TD's and 10 INT's . Edwards was sacked 23 times in 14 games. Not HORRIBLE at all. Edwards was sacked 23 times in 14 games.
J.P. Losman started in two games (both losses by the Bills) and played in two others (both losses). In those games Losman completed 60.6% of his passes with a QB rating of 62.3. He threw 2 TD's and 5 INT's. Losman was sacked 15 in those games. That dude is HORRIBLE.
Anyone lnow whats coming?? .. its been awhile... but here goes ...
STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!
Trust me man ... I WATCHED him ... he STUNK ... and I said Losman was ALMOST as bad ..
believe what u want man .. your wrong but it ain't worth arguing about ...
Quote:
You say they wouldn't be serious trade partners because they have lots of other problems. Well not having a QB would probably be the biggest problem. Having other problems doesn't mean they ignore their QB problem. It probably means they address that first, either through draft of a trade.
maybe through the draft .. I see Detroit and maybe one or two others take a QB in rnd 1 ... that part I agree with .. when u have as many holes as those teamd so u do not trade a 1st or 2nd rounder for someone of DA's abilitites .. NOT GONNA HAPPEN ... if your a team on the brink .... that makes a hell of alot more sense ...
again .. believe what u want ... and we'll watch and see how it plays out .. time will tell ...
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STATS ARE FOR LOSERS!!!!!
Do you have any stats to back that up
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
What are you talking about?
This past season Trent Edwards went 7-7 as the starting QB with a 65.5% completion rate and a 85.4 QB rating. He threw 11 TD's and 10 INT's .
C'mon dude.....you're hanging a loss in Edwards' column in which he only made it through 3 plays before he got his concussion. Technically he was 7-7 as a starter but you can't count that one (vs Zona) against him so make him 7-6, it looks better.
I wouldn't call him a horrible QB, but he is not yet a "good" QB......and he's also a fumbler.....
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This league is ALL EGO...Tell me someone out there doesn't think they can make Anderson a REAL QB...
Ding Ding! We have a winner. That is so right, it's almost left.
Anderson has shown he can win in this league. This league has no shortage of guys who think they are better and smarter than the other guys. "If Anderson can go 10-5 under that guy, I can make him an All Pro."
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