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I flly support a man and woman's right to choose. If they choose abortion then I'm fine with it. What makes me sick is all you crazy people that hound them day in and day out because of their decision. Leave them in peace why don't you? There are untold numbers of rape in thsi country and situations where a couple simply cannot have children. Whether economic or mentally, there are people that can't handle having children and there is no need to have another person soaking up welfare. It's a perfectly logical solution to the problem.
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And your preferred option would have been aborting these foster kids??? Nice
Please point out where I stated that....fact is, you can't. If you've read what I said, you would see that I'm against abortion as a means of birth control. What worries me are the kids CURRENTLY in the system that aren't being adopted. Guess it's different with babies... 
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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1st String
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Whether economic or mentally, there are people that can't handle having children and there is no need to have another person soaking up welfare. It's a perfectly logical solution to the problem.
Don't want people soaking up welfare? Kill a child. Makes perfect sense.  The fact of the matter is almost all abortions are done out of convenience not because of rape or incest. You can look the numbers up yourself. 100 years ago, no one believed in abortion. A few organizations and members of the mass media start pushing the issue, and now a majority of people support abortion.
In public schools many of the sex ed speakers that schools bring in are certified by an organization run by Planned Parenthood. Funny because PP is the world's largest abortion provider. They're also funded with our tax dollars. Abortion in the eyes of those running the industry has never been about choice, reproductive rights, or women's empowerment. It's been about money. Much of the sex research used by the FDA and federal govt. is done by the Guttmacher Institute. Who runs it? PP.
Lawmakers in the House of Commons in Britain are discussing possibly allowing women of children born with disabilities to "abort" their already born child. People are already using amniocentesis(sp?) to decide whether to kill children born with Trisomy 21. In the Ukraine, there are reports of newborn children being taken out of maternity wards and killed for their stem cells. Where does it end? Kill a child, avoid a hardship. What a great life lesson.
I am truly shocked at both political parties at the true callousness they have toward certain individuals. Why do I care about preborn children, why do I care about bringing home our troops from Iraq, why do I care about national healthcare, why do I care about the rights of individuals to immigrate to the country of their choice? It all goes back to one quote from the Bible: "Am I my brother's keeper?" Talk about women's rights, avoid looking at the homeless guy, talk about national security, just don't answer yes to that question.
![[Linked Image from iveyfiles.com]](http://www.iveyfiles.com/my_weblog/images/me.jpg) Determined Worker Intense Good worker Hard worker Terrific
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"...sick is all you crazy people that hound them day in and day out because of their decision. Leave them in peace why don't you? "
and to think all of this rancor comes from a reminder of what anniversary Jan. 22 signifies....and I'm crazy
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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What worries me are the kids CURRENTLY in the system that aren't being adopted. Guess it's different with babies...
A slightly different topic but I certainly agree with you. Kids don't belong in "group homes" People wait 10 years to adopt a baby but no one wants 8 yr. old orphans. I definitely agree with you. The first thing is that the cost of adopting needs to be substantially lowered. The waiting process is crazy too. I don't know if you're familiar with the Marcus Fiesel case but that certainly pointed out the need for adoption reform. I do still believe that there are plenty of people willing to adopt, it's the system that needs fixed.
Determined Worker Intense Good worker Hard worker Terrific
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It's been about money.
Wouldn't surprise me. Wars are fought for money, people are killed for money. Money makes the world go around. Not love.
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Where does it end? Kill a child, avoid a hardship. What a great life lesson.
Here, let me offer you a choice. Whether abortion is legal or illegal, women will still do it to avoid birth. Would you rather have abortions done by professional doctors and surgeons, or in the back alleys?
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Why do I care about preborn children, why do I care about bringing home our troops from Iraq, why do I care about national healthcare, why do I care about the rights of individuals to immigrate to the country of their choice?
Maybe you care too much.
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It all goes back to one quote from the Bible: "Am I my brother's keeper?"
Okaaayy... 
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Here, let me offer you a choice. Whether abortion is legal or illegal, women will still do it to avoid birth. Would you rather have abortions done by professional doctors and surgeons, or in the back alleys?
That's just not true. The number of abortions performed before Roe v Wade in this country was only a couple thousand a year. We now stand at roughly 50,000,000 from legalized abortion. The number of abortions performed each year illegally in Ireland is only estimated at about 5000.
Your logic seems to imply that it's okay for the law to protect something that's wrong because it's going to be done anyway. Maybe the police should just pull out of the inner cities and let drug dealers fight it out. I mean, it's going to happen anyway. The logic of "don't like abortion, don't have one" is similar to the attitude that many citizens took in 1930s Germany. "Don't like genocide, don't join the SS. Don't tell other people how to live their lives"
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The number of abortions performed each year illegally in Ireland is only estimated at about 5000.
Estimated eh?
That pollster just sat at his desk and 'estimated' (Estimated is a logical guess based off of past events). Back Alley Abortions have been going on for millenia. Women in areas occupied by Romans refused to bear their children brought on by rape and get rid of those children by any means necessary. The same goes on in Back Alleys today I assure you. If it is Illegal, people Improvise with Hangers, et cetera. Believe me, I'd much rather have it legal and have it done by professionals rather than someone who doesn't know what the heck they are doing.
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If something's wrong and people are going to be doing it anyway, that doesn't mean it should be legalized.
Where I hope we can agree is that there is a need to eliminate the feeling that some women feel they have to have an abortion. Women shouldn't have abortions because they have no health care and can't afford to have a child. In the richest country on earth you shouldn't have so many millions of people living below the poverty line that they feel it is financially impossible to raise a child. I am certainly in favor of outlawing abortion, but I feel an effort must also be made to get rid of the conditions that make a woman feel she needs to abort her child. Unfortunately the 2 political parties are split on that issue and there's no alternative. My opinions about the American political system and this "democracy" we have are probably just as strong as this issue.
Determined Worker Intense Good worker Hard worker Terrific
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If something's wrong and people are going to be doing it anyway, that doesn't mean it should be legalized.
Where I hope we can agree is that there is a need to eliminate the feeling that some women feel they have to have an abortion. Women shouldn't have abortions because they have no health care and can't afford to have a child. In the richest country on earth you shouldn't have so many millions of people living below the poverty line that they feel it is financially impossible to raise a child. I am certainly in favor of outlawing abortion, but I feel an effort must also be made to get rid of the conditions that make a woman feel she needs to abort her child. Unfortunately the 2 political parties are split on that issue and there's no alternative. My opinions about the American political system and this "democracy" we have are probably just as strong as this issue.
The way the school system is and the lack of concern for the lower class by the politicans and people in power does not leave the people much hope. Sure, there is the occasional feel good story of someone breaking free of their socio-economic problems and rising to great highs. But, on the whole, what is the percentage of those coming from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods finishing high school? Going to college? Finishing college?
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The way the school system is and the lack of concern for the lower class by the politicans and people in power does not leave the people much hope. Sure, there is the occasional feel good story of someone breaking free of their socio-economic problems and rising to great highs. But, on the whole, what is the percentage of those coming from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods finishing high school? Going to college? Finishing college?
I definitely agree with that. This country as a whole and Ohio in particular have a serious problem with this. If you grow up in Over the Rhine and go to a Cincinnati Public school you have no chance at going anywhere in life. You're set up for failure. I'd love to see a lot more money being pumped into public education. I'd also like to see substantial raises for teachers that teach in high poverty areas so that there'd be an incentive for top-line teachers to go there.
Then you have the costs of college. Most inner-city people who did well in high school have no means of paying for college. The aid that they are given is in the form of loans rather than scholarships and grants. I had trouble going to college and my parents would be considered upper-middle class. That's an absolute joke. I know it's a little off topic from this thread but it is related in a way. I currently see an America where there is no American Dream for half of its citizens.
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I definitely agree with that. This country as a whole and Ohio in particular have a serious problem with this. If you grow up in Over the Rhine and go to a Cincinnati Public school you have no chance at going anywhere in life. You're set up for failure. I'd love to see a lot more money being pumped into public education. I'd also like to see substantial raises for teachers that teach in high poverty areas so that there'd be an incentive for top-line teachers to go there.
Then you have the costs of college. Most inner-city people who did well in high school have no means of paying for college. The aid that they are given is in the form of loans rather than scholarships and grants. I had trouble going to college and my parents would be considered upper-middle class. That's an absolute joke. I know it's a little off topic from this thread but it is related in a way. I currently see an America where there is no American Dream for half of its citizens.
Then throw in the kids into that. Kids having kids, et cetera. It drags them down farther into the gutter and they can't get out. It's like quicksand. Little to no hope of bettering themselves. You see tons of them having children and becoming welfar dependant, and others that exploit the government by purposely having more kids while they sit on their arse. If it is a wealthy family and the people are having abortions, I'd have a problem with that. But when it is poverty stricken I can understand why they wouldn't want to have kids and dig themselves into a hole that is near impossible to get out of.
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Legend
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Yanno GM.. She's a freshman in HS. I don't think I have a thing to worry about. She's very bright, has high standards and wants a future. Her mom and I worked pretty hard on being good parents and so far the results show it.
My wife's parents thought the same thing about here, and look at the bum she ended up with 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Yanno GM.. She's a freshman in HS. I don't think I have a thing to worry about. She's very bright, has high standards and wants a future. Her mom and I worked pretty hard on being good parents and so far the results show it.
My wife's parents thought the same thing about here, and look at the bum she ended up with
I see your point. She meets someone like you and the grades, the standards and the future go out the window.
SaintDawg™
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Legend
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That pollster just sat at his desk and 'estimated' (Estimated is a logical guess based off of past events). Back Alley Abortions have been going on for millenia. Women in areas occupied by Romans refused to bear their children brought on by rape and get rid of those children by any means necessary. The same goes on in Back Alleys today I assure you. If it is Illegal, people Improvise with Hangers, et cetera. Believe me, I'd much rather have it legal and have it done by professionals rather than someone who doesn't know what the heck they are doing.
Well people have been killing each other since the beginning of time. Why don't we just make hitmen legal so all the murders will be nice and clean 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Well people have been killing each other since the beginning of time. Why don't we just make hitmen legal so all the murders will be nice and clean
Nice spin, but still doesn't fit whatever argument you were making. My point was that Abortion would still go on even if it was illegal but in back alleys and with unsound practices which could very well do more harm than good. Just like assassinations, illegal, but can you really stop a person that determined to get someone?
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"... But, on the whole, what is the percentage of those coming from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods finishing high school? Going to college? Finishing college?"
The percentage is unknown to me but I would hope the determination, intelligence and hard work would make the typical student of meager means an attractive student for many colleges.
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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The percentage is unknown to me but I would hope the determination, intelligence and hard work would make the typical student of meager means an attractive student for many colleges.
In the ideal world? Yes.
In Reality? No.
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Legend
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Nice spin, but still doesn't fit whatever argument you were making. My point was that Abortion would still go on even if it was illegal but in back alleys and with unsound practices which could very well do more harm than good. Just like assassinations, illegal, but can you really stop a person that determined to get someone?
No spin at all. Abortion kills a child that has not left the womb. Murder kills a child or adult who has left the womb, yet people want to pretend abortion is not murder by giving it a different name. Now your saying well abortion would still go on if it were illegal. Hello Earth to Charlie, murder still goes on and it's illegal, but you won't use the same standard your using for abortion.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Legend
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The percentage is unknown to me but I would hope the determination, intelligence and hard work would make the typical student of meager means an attractive student for many colleges.
In the ideal world? Yes.
In Reality? No.
Wealthy kids will always have an advantage... that's just the way it is... But on a positive note, some colleges are starting to use "need blind" admissions... Duke is one of them, it kills me to say anything nice about that University, but if you submit an application, whether or not you can afford it is not considered. If they accept your application, they will do everything they need to so you can go. This will involve helping you apply for any and all aid you are entitled to, grants, work study, whatever they need to do. And yes, some loans may be a part of it... but it's a step in the right direction.
yebat' Putin
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No sir the world is not fair when it comes to intelligence,birth location,physical appearance,genetic health concerns or parental economic success.
Do many kids carry a more difficult load in so far as achieving success when compared with others...Of course! Do many more affluent kids waste many of their "talents"..of course.
While some American kids have a very difficult road to proper education it is not out of their reach. We can't pick our parents nor can we change the place of our birth, but we can continue to strive for advancement on the personal level.
If you waste your opportunities you generally have one more chance...if you waste that chance...well..."some one has to make the fries"!
The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, .
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum A reminder that 1/22/07 is the
34th anniv. of Roe v. Wade
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