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Link Big-play linebacker Karlos Dansby was the team's franchise player this season and wants a long-term deal. He said he wants to stay with Arizona but would be frustrated if he retains the franchise tag, which would give him the average of the NFL's five highest-paid players at his position. Dansby said the Cardinals "know I want to stay" but if they franchise him again "that would be a tough situation." "I want to sit down and talk and see where we're at," he said. "Hopefully, we can get something done." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm crossing my fingers they don't franchise Dansby.
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The Cards have, what, $42,000,000 in cap space? I have to think they'll sign him to a long-term deal.
I am unfamiliar with this feeling of optimism
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But the Bidwell's are known to be very cheap. Here's there whole list of FAs. Add Boldin complaining about his contract to the list too. While they have 42M, they have a lot of holes to fill based on this list (though he's one of the bigger ones along with Warner). I bet Dansby ends up in Miami within hours of FA (assuming he doesn't get tagged)
Bertrand Berry Arizona UFA
Antonio Smith Arizona UFA
Gabe Watson Arizona RFA
Monty Beisel Arizona UFA
Karlos Dansby Arizona UFA
Clark Haggans Arizona UFA
Ralph Brown Arizona UFA
Eric Green Arizona UFA
Brian St. Pierre Arizona UFA
Kurt Warner Arizona UFA
Terrelle Smith Arizona UFA
J.J. Arrington Arizona UFA
Leonard Pope Arizona RFA
Elton Brown Arizona UFA
Scott Peters Arizona UFA
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They need to let Dansby and Bolden go and use that money to resign Ralph Brown. 
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The Cards have, what, $42,000,000 in cap space? I have to think they'll sign him to a long-term deal.
Yeah they have mega bucks for 2009...Problem's the Owner not willing to spend it...
That's a major reason why some teams have alot of Cap Space every year...Just because the caps high don't mean they have the budget for it...
I really don't think they'll let Dansby get away...
We'll find out by the 19th if they Tag em'...And the 27th if he hits the open market...
Damn...That's in 2 and 3 weeks... 
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I'd be thrilled with him or Channing Crowder.
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I'd be thrilled with him or Channing Crowder.
Convince me on Crowder?????????????...Cause I ain't convinced...
Miami's another one...WHY would Parcells let a solid LB walk when he's trying to build down there???...And make no mistake about it...2008 was a GIFT SCHEDULE to the Fins...It wasn't a miracle turn around...
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WHY would Parcells let a solid LB walk when he's trying to build down there???
I honestly have no clue. I don't think Crowder is the stud that Dansby is, but I do think he is solid. And at this point, I'd be extremely happy with a solid inside linebacker. He is good against the run and is decent against the pass. He is ideal for the 3-4 because he doesn't have that great of speed. There is no way to convince you that Crowder would be better for us than Dansby, because he wouldn't be. The only reason I'd rather have Crowder is that he's 2 years younger.
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Crowder would also be a lot cheaper. He'd be an upgrade, that's for sure. I wouldn't mind that signing at all. We are not in the position to turn down "solid."
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Miami's another one...WHY would Parcells let a solid LB walk when he's trying to build down there
I've been hearing they're going after Bart Scott.
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" if he retains the franchise tag, which would give him the average of the NFL's five highest-paid players at his position."
I believe this was misreported by the journalist...what else is new 
If he gets Franchised tagged a 2nd season in a row...I believe he gets a 20% hike from last years Tag price which was an average of the top 5.
Just remember - we got some money as a franchise. If we make a move in the FA market for a TOP PLAYER we got room for only ONE.
Thats if we make a FA move at all. Just get prepared for a bunch of 2nd tier acquisitions. No home runs.
If we do so hopefully it will be in the Pass Rush...OLB spot.
JMHO
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CHRIST HAS RISEN!
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I just read on ESPN Insider that Dansby is looking for a big payday (no surprise here). He said compares himself to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs. He wouldn't mind landing in New York (Giants) or Dallas.
I don't think we will pursue him in FA or trade..
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I couldn't agree more - I don't see a huge splash either - small strategic strikes makes the most sense to me considering they haven't even met with all of their current players yet.
I don't know Mangini's relationship with Vilma, but I fear we sign him. Wouldn't be very happy with that one...
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don't mean to change the topic of discussion, but why do you hope vilma wouldnt be coming here? i get the bad rap on him working in a 3-4, that hes too small and he doesnt know how to play it, but remember when D'Qwell Jackson was being talked about the same way? remember that vilma is still young, is a great athlete and at the cost we would get him at it wouldn't be as a starter anyway. Wouldn't you rather have someone like him over our past back up free agents? Just a thought. 
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Just remember Mangini got rid of Vilma already...him coming here would be hard to swallow.
DQ is about 20 pounds heavier than Vilma.
JMHO
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not to mention that while "in theory" Vilma could pickup the 3-4....Mangini already tried it with him and he was horrible and looked lost the entire time before losing his job to a rookie who tore things up (David Harris).
then, he goes to a 4-3 team and magically he looks like a NFL starting LB again. i assume he has already told his agent that he will only sign with a 4-3 team (IMO).
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Quote:
Just remember Mangini got rid of Vilma already...him coming here would be hard to swallow.
DQ is about 20 pounds heavier than Vilma.
JMHO
Are you sure? NFL teams lie about weights all the time. DQ was/is considered to be undersized. I dont think DQ is over 245 (he was around 230-235 when he came into the league). I can't imagine Vilma is under 230.
***EDIT*** DQ is listed at 240 and Vilma 230.
I do know Vilma was let go by the Jets when they made the switch.
Last edited by Pdawg; 02/06/09 08:28 PM.
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"I can't imagine Vilma is under 230."
Unfortunately living 20 minutes from Jet camp I got more face time with the Jets camps than with my Browns. Also Hofstra was the only facility of note with good camps for the youth...between the two I was there a lot.
Vilma was never over 225. I can't speak for DQ to put it with the same ratio. But I does anyone have Vilma's weight at the combine...thats after bulking up for the weigh in from the Agent Camps.
JMHO
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I just read on ESPN Insider that Dansby is looking for a big payday (no surprise here). He said compares himself to Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs. He wouldn't mind landing in New York (Giants) or Dallas.
I don't think we will pursue him in FA or trade..
I just wanna know...how the hell does Dallas always have money to throw around????
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
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If we do so hopefully it will be in the Pass Rush...OLB spot.
I think we'll make a big play for Suggs. That would end the need to make a "reach" pick at # 5 like E. Brown. We would immediately upgrade our pass rush, and also be able to take the BPA at # 5. There isn't a player out there who would benefit this organizations chances for success next year more than Suggs..............not only because of what he brings to the table, but because he would allow us to go BPA at # 5 and add another great talent.
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That would end the need to make a "reach" pick at # 5 like E. Brown.
Everette Brown at 5 is not a reach.
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I understand what you are saying...we should not go into the draft with "URGENT NEED" at one position.
But as deepthreat stated Brown is not a reach pick at #5...regardless what the Draftniks show and most don't have him ranked too far down. But they go into this draft analyst stuff with an overall NFL perspective and its still a 4-3 D dominate League. Tweeners like Brown have much more value to 3-4 teams. If the entire NFL were 90% 3-4 defenses...Brown would be in that top 5 a lot more.
I wouldn't mind getting Suggs or Peppers...and then Pick Brown also. Trust me I wouldn't mind a KICK BUTT AWESOME PASS RUSH
Of course that would make Wimbley expendable but he doesn't have an overburdening Contract to remain as a backup...rotation guy.
JMHO
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I was not trying to disparage EB, but was stating that if we had another guy rated ahead of him like Crabtree or Jenkins then the pressing need that is OLB right now wouldn't force us to take him over a higher rated player. It's nothing against EB, but when your are picking top 5 you better get the BPA because you probably need it. Contrary to popular opinion, the O stunk just as bad as the D did last year (even with healthy QBs). I would understand an investment there. BM is better suited for the slot, and a guy like Jenkins or Davis would improve this team. I understand why everybody is in love with everything LB right now, but I don't want to go into a draft having to spend a top 5 pick on a LB because of need. Suggs provides us the flexibility to pick the BPA, and if that's EB then great. However, if not then I am fine with quite a few other prospects as well..............and we are in need of every one of them not just the LBs. That's my point. 
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The O stunk due to not having a second reciever to go to..since Headcase couldn't catch a cold..and Dainty got his panty hose too tight and pulled a muscle trying to slip them on  ..and the right side of the oline sucked... Oh not to mention horrible QB play..
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What past backup FAs? We drafted Andra Davis, we drafted Leon WIlliams, we drafted DQ, we drafted Beau Bell...ok, maybe Kris Griffin, just because I don't know off the top of my head. The FAs were at OLB, and Vilma isn't an OLB.
He's had decent numbers, especially his 2nd year if I recall correctly. But, I just think he's overrated. And I believe he'll be starting somewhere - he's talented enough that he will be somewhere, he's not coming to Cleveland to play backup.
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"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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That would end the need to make a "reach" pick at # 5 like E. Brown.
Everette Brown at 5 is not a reach.
Tell me the last time a 3-4 pass rushing OLB went in the Top 5.
The closest you'll find recently is Gholston last year at #6 and we all know how well that worked out. Instead, look where other 1st round 3-4 rush specialist OLBs who actually get playing time have gone in the past few years - Terrell Suggs (10th), DeMarcus Ware (11th), Shawne Merriman (12th), Kamerion Wimbley (13th), Lawrence Timmons (15th), etc. That's the range Brown should be going in... not the Top 5.
Last year's #5 pick, Glenn Dorsey, got a 5 year, $51M contract. Compare that to the 10 slot where I think Brown should be drafted, 5 years $18.9M, which makes a LOT more sense. Can you honestly say that Brown (or any 3-4 rush OLB for that matter) is worth a ten million dollar contract?
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Tell me the last time a 3-4 pass rushing OLB went in the Top 5.
The closest you'll find recently is Gholston last year at #6 and we all know how well that worked out.
Umm....how do you know how Gholston worked out? He played 1 year and was transitioning from a DE to an OLB...the Jets obviously expected him to make more of an impact during the season than he did, but it was only his rookie year
Heck, even Mario Williams took a year to adjust and he was the #1 overall pick and stayed as a DE in NFL (same position as in college).
Gholston may very well continue to be a bust...but it is awfully early in his career to put such a label on him.
Also, I don't personally support Everrette Brown at #5...but that is more because of our other options there.
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Tell me the last time a 3-4 pass rushing OLB went in the Top 5.
The closest you'll find recently is Gholston last year at #6 and we all know how well that worked out.
Umm....how do you know how Gholston worked out? He played 1 year and was transitioning from a DE to an OLB...the Jets obviously expected him to make more of an impact during the season than he did, but it was only his rookie year
Heck, even Mario Williams took a year to adjust and he was the #1 overall pick and stayed as a DE in NFL (same position as in college).
Gholston may very well continue to be a bust...but it is awfully early in his career to put such a label on him.
Mario Williams was never declared inactive because he just couldn't cut it. He also got a few sacks his rookie year and didn't struggle to reach double digits in tackles. Gholston was a reach because his freak combine vaulted him up the draft boards. He wasn't even all that special at OSU and he was pitiful with the Jets. If he ends up being a stud like they expected him to be, I will be flabbergasted.
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Of course I'd rather trade back and get him, but do you consider that likely? I don't. Trading back isn't easy to do. And I consider Brown to be a talent worthy of the #5 pick. He is MUCH better than Gholston is/was. There were certain "questions" with both Ware and Merriman. There were questions about Ware playing at a small school and there were concerns about Merriman using steroids and having character issues. And don't you think those two would be worth the #5 pick? Don't draft someone based on where players at that position usually go. Draft them at where you think they should go, and I think Brown will almost certainly got top 10.
And you could pose the same thing you presented with many positions. That same argument can be used against Aaron Curry, and I think it is a weak one.
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He is ideal for the 3-4 because he doesn't have that great of speed.
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A 3-4 linebacker doesn't have to cover near the space that one in a 4-3 does.
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The problem is Deep, at # 5 money you could buy any LB in the NFL on the FA market. Therefore if you draft one top 5 you better be getting someone who is truly special.........and I'm talking top 3 at his position in 3 years to justify the loot he'll be making compared to his counterparts. This is the reason as Spectre alluded to that most LBs just don't go top 5..........why draft a prospect when you can get a bonafide stud for the same money??? It's the reasons that you mostly see QBs, LTs, DEs, WRs, and CBs taken that high........you can't sign those positions with studs even with top 5 money.
I'm not neccessarily against getting Brown or Curry, but I hope to God that we know what we are getting with either. People talk about Kam being easy to cut in year 3 now (and he is), but whoever we draft at # 5 won't be. So we better dang sure to get a guy who we won't want to cut in 3 years. Like Savage or not, one of his bright spots was when he picked in the top 5. He went BPA that filled a need, and walked away with BE (who is a nut job, but certainly no one is wanting him cut), and JT. In other words he went for sure things, and didn't "reach" for guys with big upside and big ???s. To Phil's credit, he understood you simply can't miss that high in the draft, because of the financial ramifications. I hope these guys follow a simular philosophy, and get us a sure fired impact player......no matter what position he plays.
Last edited by BigWillieStyle; 02/09/09 10:47 PM.
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The problem is Deep, at # 5 money you could buy any LB in the NFL on the FA market.
And the problem with that is, those studs don't ever hit FA. Even if Terrell Suggs hits the market, I wouldn't consider him worth that type of money as I think he is overrated. I understand the logic you are using, and I agree with it. The Browns need to do a lot of research on all available options and decide on the best plan, taking both need and ability into consideration. You take the player that will help your team the most. Period.
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Of course I'd rather trade back and get him, but do you consider that likely? I don't. Trading back isn't easy to do. And I consider Brown to be a talent worthy of the #5 pick. He is MUCH better than Gholston is/was. There were certain "questions" with both Ware and Merriman. There were questions about Ware playing at a small school and there were concerns about Merriman using steroids and having character issues. And don't you think those two would be worth the #5 pick? Don't draft someone based on where players at that position usually go. Draft them at where you think they should go, and I think Brown will almost certainly got top 10.
And you could pose the same thing you presented with many positions. That same argument can be used against Aaron Curry, and I think it is a weak one.
I understand trading back isn't easy to do. Otherwise, I'd be pulling for Brown as one of our options. At the #5 pick though, I don't consider him. The thing is, projecting a guy who was a former 4-3 DE into a 3-4 OLB isn't an exact science, and there is a calculated risk involved. Just imagine (not saying it will happen at all) that he busts like Wimbley and you're stuck paying him $10M for a few sacks a year. That risk is too great at the #5 spot. Of course I would take Merriman/Ware there but the thing is, they're proven now and Brown is not.
The difference between Brown and Curry is that Curry is a much safer bet, both in terms of ability and in terms of how he projects. There aren't really a lot of flaws in Curry's game and it's pretty easy to see him playing 3-4 ILB. Curry might not have as high of a ceiling as Brown but his floor is so much higher that he makes for a smarter bet in the Top 5. Ideally I wouldn't have to take a LB in the Top 5 period, but what are you gonna to do this year? If you have to go LB though, go with a safe bet or don't do it at all... Brown, as much as you may like him, is not a very safe bet.
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It's hard to argue with that. I'm sorry if I've come across as only wanting Brown. I'd be THRILLED with him or Curry. After that I'm not so happy. I'd take Andre Smith, but I wouln't be elated. If we took Jenkins I'd probably be complaining despite thinking he'll be a stud. Anyone else and I'm downright furious unless we traded down.
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It's hard to argue with that. I'm sorry if I've come across as only wanting Brown. I'd be THRILLED with him or Curry. After that I'm not so happy. I'd take Andre Smith, but I wouln't be elated. If we took Jenkins I'd probably be complaining despite thinking he'll be a stud. Anyone else and I'm downright furious unless we traded down.
Fair enough, can't really argue with any of the guys you named, though I'd hope we wouldn't take Smith unless we move Shaffer. I'm actually a quiet Beanie Wells supporter too... based on attributes alone, he's the perfect back for Mangini's New England style offense, but he'd be a stretch in the Top 5 right now unless the combine changes things (which I'm hoping it will). Pretty much, I want a trade down more than anything but if not, my biggest concern right now is that our biggest needs would all be overpaid in the 5 slot... that's not a good thing.
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" He is ideal for the 3-4 because he doesn't have that great of speed. "
Just would like to clarify this up for you a bit.
1. In no shape or form would Not Having that GREAT of Speed ever be "IDEAL" for any defense - 3-4 or 4-3.
2. An INSIDE LB can get away with being a tad slow as long as he is a Great Football player if he's on the ILB of a 3-4 Defense...Playing MIKE in a 4-3 he has to have more Sideline to Sideline speed. Where in a 3-4 You have to have A,B,C,D gap speed on just the one side...and be there for the Cut back gap on the other.
In the past you have had considerably slower LBs do well...Holmes was the best case I can think of showing this. He played ILB with the Steelers and was studly...he played MIKE for us in a 4-3 and was OK but no where near as effective as he was in the Steeler D.
But lets get one thing straight...Speed is very effective in the 3-4 Defense even on the inside. It doesn't have to always relate to great 40 speed but Quickness and explosion, Closing Speed. In the NFL...GOOD AND FAST will always be better than GOOD AND SLOW 
JMHO
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I realize all of that. I meant more along the lines of him prefering to go to a 3-4, because he'd be better at that.
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