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2nd String
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I was watching Jon Stewart the other night and he said something that I have been telling people for a while now. Instead of bailing out the automotive and financial institutions why doesn't the government bailout the taxpayers? If the economy is based off of consumer (taxpayers mostly) confidence then the way to fix it is to boost the consumer's confidence. Take the $900 billion dollars, that President Obama is currently trying to get passed, and divide it up amongst all of the middle to lower class taxpayers. They will use the money to pay off their debts (mortgages, credit cards and other loans), buy houses, automobiles, or put it in the bank. Wouldn't this fix the economy? I mean afterall, if the taxpayers are the ones who are fronting the $900 billion shouldn't they (we) be the first ones directly impacted with some relief??
Am I just ignorant or does this seem like the solution?
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Have you taken into consideration inflation??
Just something to consider.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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I don't agree with the part about dividing the money between middle and lower income brackets, and isn't that essentially what it does now anyway with the exception of some "public works" and other pork stuffed in it? Back in December HR7309 was proposed and would have eliminated income taxes and FICA taxes for employees AND employers for the first 2 months of the year utilizing the remaining 350B in TARP money. I sure liked the idea, but of course it never gained any traction. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d110:h.r.07309:This also would have shown people how much money actually comes out of their check each month once they saw the full amount deposited to their accounts, which would have hopefully led to my favorite tax initiative, www.fairtax.org  I know most of the people I work with have no idea how much comes out of their checks; it is electronically deposited and they never look at the stubs.
#gmstrong
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Assuming the proposed "giveaway" would range between 35-40 grand, how long would it take before inflation would have ANY effect ??
The assumed benefactors would have this money spent so fast, "Inflation" would haven't time to capitalize itself.
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2nd String
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Why don't you agree that the money should be divided up by middle and lower class? Aren't they the majority of the taxpayers in this country? It is amazing how many people don't realize how much they pay in taxes. It makes me sick when I look at my pay stub and 1/3 of it goes to taxes whether it's federal, state or local. I think taxes are important but the way the money is spent by our government is insulting.
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Quote:
Aren't they the majority of the taxpayers in this country
The majority of the tax MONEY comes from the top 5% of the population - they pay about 60% of all income tax collected by the government. If you move up to the top 25% of wage earners it's near 90%.
#gmstrong
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Quote:
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Aren't they the majority of the taxpayers in this country
The majority of the tax MONEY comes from the top 5% of the population - they pay about 60% of all income tax collected by the government. If you move up to the top 25% of wage earners it's near 90%.
I wondered who was going to jump on that  ..Or is it whom ?
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2nd String
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The top do pay the most, but buy much less than the middle class. The middle class drives the economy more so than any other class.
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2nd String
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I didn't say where the majority of the money comes from. I said the majority of the people who pay taxes are middle to lower class. The ones who are directly affected by the economy. How does the economy affect the top 25% percent of wage earners? Do they have to sell one of their vacation homes to makes ends meet? Or trade in one of their Mercedez Benz?
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Legend
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Quote:
Assuming the proposed "giveaway" would range between 35-40 grand, how long would it take before inflation would have ANY effect ??
The assumed benefactors would have this money spent so fast, "Inflation" would haven't time to capitalize itself.
900 bil / 300 mil residents = 3,000
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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2nd String
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Not residents..taxpayers..what's the number of taxpayers ranging in the middle and lower class?
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The top do pay the most, but buy much less than the middle class. The middle class drives the economy more so than any other class.
That is so, so wrong. The "rich" people spend more. They have it, they spend it. Keep in mind, they hire construction people, they go to restaurants, the buy "luxuries".........gees, the list goes on and on.
They buy everything anyone else does - middle class, or poor. They also hire services that the middle class doesn't, and that the poor don't.
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Legend
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I didn't say where the majority of the money comes from. I said the majority of the people who pay taxes are middle to lower class.
Sorry charlie, the poor people don't pay ANYTHING in income tax. Perhaps you should research who pays taxes before spouting this rhetoric. Take a look. You're on the internet. Take a look at who pays taxes.
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
Assuming the proposed "giveaway" would range between 35-40 grand, how long would it take before inflation would have ANY effect ??
The assumed benefactors would have this money spent so fast, "Inflation" would haven't time to capitalize itself.
900 bil / 300 mil residents = 3,000
So what's a trillion here or there,.... 
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2nd String
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Are we talking income tax or sales tax?
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I'm not spouting rehotirc. I pay taxes. I'm middle class. But I think the middle class and the lower class should directly benefit from the $900 billion stimulis package. I know that the lower class doesn't pay anything in taxes. They pay taxes paycheck to paycheck but they get all of it back when they file their tax return.
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All Pro
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Quote:
I didn't say where the majority of the money comes from. I said the majority of the people who pay taxes are middle to lower class. The ones who are directly affected by the economy. How does the economy affect the top 25% percent of wage earners? Do they have to sell one of their vacation homes to makes ends meet? Or trade in one of their Mercedez Benz?
Research the "Luxury Tax" on expensive boats that was adopted a few years ago. The rich stopped buying yachts, and all the "middle class" boat building laborers lost their jobs.
Your shortsighted attack on people that spend a lot in our economy may result in fewer jobs for people constructing vacation homes and selling/servicing Benzes.
Don't tell me I don't pay enough in taxes. There is already a provision to take my $500 in tax money and give it to some lazy POS that only works 10 hours a week and doesn't pay any income tax. I won't see a dime.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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2nd String
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I didn't say you don't pay enough taxes. And I don't assume because someone who doesn't make as much as much money as your or I is a lazy POS.
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Legend
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Quote:
How does the economy affect the top 25% percent of wage earners? Do they have to sell one of their vacation homes to makes ends meet? Or trade in one of their Mercedez Benz?
LOL... If you think being in the top 25% means you have multiple vacation homes and luxury cars, then you are mistaken.. Maybe the top 5%...
And how does it affect them? Well, most of them own businesses, so they lay people off, they cut costs for their business... then they don't invest in new plants, equipment, research, etc...
yebat' Putin
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The majority of people that don't make as much are not lazy. However, I believe there are some that are lazy.
I stand by my original assertion that there is a lazy POS that will get $500 from my pocket.
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Legend
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I am "unemployed."
I am semi-retired,...
I actively seek work, but am UNQUALIFIED to draw benefits. (And were I, I would not accept them anyway.)
I'll wager a six-pack, I pay more in taxes a year than 50% of America's populace.
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If I were you, I'd up the wager to a 12 pack.  You still want to give $500 to a lazy POS?
Thomas - The Tank Engine
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Legend
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Are we talking income tax or sales tax?
Either, my friend, either. I guarantee the "rich" pay more in income tax than the poor. Damn, I shouldn't even have to say that.........where has common sense gone? Where has looking at the proof gone?
And I will guarantee the "rich" pay more in sales tax as well. If you dispute that, I'll let you find the proof.
Here's something to gnaw on while you're looking for stats that don't exist: take money from the rich, the poor and middle class suffer. The rich don't. There have always been rich and poor. When the "rich" see an opportunity to make money, they hire the "poor" or "middle class" to make it for them. Sorry, just a fact. In doing so, they pay wages. Wages, if used correctly, can lift a person from what ever "class" they were in.
On the other hand, if you tax the hell out of the rich, they tuck their money away and say "screw it. I'm not spending money to create jobs on an "if" basis. If being "if I make money, they're going to take it anyway".
Look up and down your street. You will see people that make more than you, and people that make less than you.. It's called life. There is only 1 richest person in this country. Everyone else is poorer. You want that rich guy to take his money and go home?
Now, extrapolate that into, say, 5000 rich people. Do you want them to create jobs that create them more money, as well as pay 5 million people wages? Or would it be better for those 5000 people to just sit on their money?
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If I were you, I'd up the wager to a 12 pack.
You still want to give $500 to a lazy POS?
In what universe do I have a choice,....??
The POS is still gonna get $500,....no??
I think the point is, this (these) problem(s) are so big, and have so many dynamically intertwined convolutions, that they are almost impossible to solve.
I don't even pretend to have a solution, but I enjoy the give and take. Carry on. 
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I think the point is, this (these) problem(s) are so big, and have so many dynamically intertwined convolutions, that they are almost impossible to solve.
I know, I feel the same way when trying to decide between a 6-pack and a 12-pack. 
yebat' Putin
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Just go for a big jug of vodka. It's cheaper and lasts longer.
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Yes but its harder to down a case of those in one day 
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Quote:
Quote:
I think the point is, this (these) problem(s) are so big, and have so many dynamically intertwined convolutions, that they are almost impossible to solve.
I know, I feel the same way when trying to decide between a 6-pack and a 12-pack.
I compute the tax loss to the state first,...THEN decide whether to buy four 6 packs, or two 12 packs. 
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Hall of Famer
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The top do pay the most, but buy much less than the middle class. The middle class drives the economy more so than any other class.
#gmstrong
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I'll wager a six-pack, I pay more in taxes a year than 50% of America's populace.
Considering 45% of wage-earners don't even pay income taxes, I'd say that's a safe bet.
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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Quote:
Now, extrapolate that into, say, 5000 rich people. Do you want them to create jobs that create them more money, as well as pay 5 million people wages? Or would it be better for those 5000 people to just sit on their money?
I always like the saying "I've never worked for a poor person". Not always true, but I'd say it's true 90% of the time.
#gmstrong
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That really wasn't where I was "guessing" my math from, but you're probably right,... OK,...3 six-packs,....
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Quote:
I didn't say where the majority of the money comes from. I said the majority of the people who pay taxes are middle to lower class. The ones who are directly affected by the economy. How does the economy affect the top 25% percent of wage earners? Do they have to sell one of their vacation homes to makes ends meet? Or trade in one of their Mercedez Benz?
lol. The low end of the top 25% is 64K per year. I don't think most of them have vacation homes or Benz's sitting in the garage. The top 5% low end is 153K; good money but far from ultra wealthy. The top 1% is where you start getting into truly rich; about 400K+ and they pay a whopping 40% of all taxes!
Those numbers are from 2006, but I'm sure they are probably pretty close to today's numbers.
#gmstrong
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That really wasn't where I was "guessing" my math from, but you're probably right,...
OK,...3 six-packs,....
Hold on there friend.. are you brand specific or will you look for a good sale? Do you have any coupons? What about your Kroger card, sometimes that can save you some cash. These are tough times, we have to be frugal.
yebat' Putin
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It's not just the consumer that needs help, it's corporations... they employ the people that need the jobs to make the money to spend that will have a positive effect on the economy.
To me, find worthwhile investment in new technology,,, fund it right,, not this piddly stuff...
in the process you still have to do something that helps the old smoke stack industries.
But there has to be a catch...if you take the money, you gotta create jobs,,, if you don't,, you owe the money back.
yes, tax breaks for people would be great.. another thing is tax forgiveness.. not just going forward but looking back.
I'll be damned if I can find it cause I wanted to make a point with it, but there is something like 600 billion in delinquent federal taxes owed. That's on a personal and corporate basis.. The surprise in that was that it wasn't the wealthy,, it was typical folks... (dont' hate me but) Joe the Plumber types.
As crazy as it sounds, offer up tax amnesty for those in the rears, and a tax vacation for those not.
Person A; Owes 3000 in personal income tax from the last two years
Forgive that 3000.. but make it contingent on him paying his taxes on time going forward for a minimum of so many years... if he doesn't, he then owes the 3000 plus penalties and interest..
Person B: all up to date on his taxes.... no issues at all.. mr. perfect taxpayer. Give him a vacation from payroll taxes for a year or two. Another way might be to refund his entire tax bill for the last year.. so if he paid 3000 in taxes,, give it back to him.
If I knew that for the year 2009 that I woudln't have to pay any Federal Income tax,,, I'd be a happy camper and it would give me a little breathing room.
If I were a corporation and knew that if I could do business and not have to pay Federal Income tax for 2009,, I'd be very inclined to use that money to grow my business (not everyone would do that I know)
If I owed 10 grand in taxes to the fed and they said to me,, dude, it's forgiven but don't be late again or you will owe it all plus interest and penalties.
That would make me wanna get straight with the fed in a hurry..
Just some crazy dumb thoughts..
I have no idea what the direct ramifications are.
Remember the old saying: Power to the People
Well, try this... Stimulus to the People.... hey,, it's maybe a little nutty, but is it any more nutty than funding some of the freaking pork out there now?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Quote:
offer up tax amnesty for those in the rears,
Ok, that's funny right there...
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Quote:
Quote:
That really wasn't where I was "guessing" my math from, but you're probably right,...
OK,...3 six-packs,....
Hold on there friend.. are you brand specific or will you look for a good sale? Do you have any coupons? What about your Kroger card, sometimes that can save you some cash. These are tough times, we have to be frugal.
I got you by the short hairs now boy,...!! Kroger (and I have the Giant Eagle card too,..) doesn't give points when you buy alcohol,....  
Of course, one MIGHT say I don't buy beer--since I only buy Stroh's.
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Not residents..taxpayers..what's the number of taxpayers ranging in the middle and lower class?
According to this the 2006 IRS reports showed the breakdowns as such:
Top 1% - 388.8k+ AGI 22% of total income and 40% tax burden
Top 5% - 153.5k+ AGI 37% of total income and 60% tax burden
Top 10% - 108.9k+ AGI 47% of total income and 71% tax burden
Top 25% - 64.7k+ AGI 66% of total income and 86% tax burden
Top 50% - 32k+ AGI 87% of total income and 97% tax burden
Bottom 50% - under 32k 13% of total income and 3% tax burden
LIbertatem Defendimus!!
2010 Dawgtalkers NCAA Bracket Challenge Champ!!
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I did my part to stimulate the economy, just this morning I bought a pack of smokes some zingers and a coffee!!
LET'S GO BROWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/OldSixty-Two/new0400001.jpg) [b]WOOF WOOF[b]
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Legend
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Ok, that's funny right there...
well, it's really no different than some of the proposals being floated out there.. how many times have you heard that we should suspend federal income tax..(this of course in lieu of a 900 billion stimulus package, obviousely doing both would be insane)
So what's the difference in giveing a forward tax break from a retroactive tax break......
I mean, it's no nuttier than some other iideas.. but I agree, it is rather funny... I chuckled writing it.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Stimulating the Economy..
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