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Seems like a better idea than this stimulus, but at this point it's too late for something so simple.
It's amazing isn't it? We try to fix a complex mess with more complexity when the simple worked for how long? I see the need for our civilizations progress, but when something can be fixed so easily. It's like trying to fix a leaky pipe with a rube-goldberg machine instead of a new pipe. Sure the rube-goldberg is fun to think up and watch, but when your ducking things around the kitchen just to make banana bread, it just gets in the way. 
And yes, I'm eating banana bread 
There are no sacred cows.
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Dawg Talker
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Uh, do you work for a rich or a poor guy?
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Dawg Talker
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When you do your income taxes this year see if the SALES taxes you claim you pay so much of can beat the standard deduction. I am willing to bet you can't, nor had the wherewithall to actually save your sales tax receipts for the computation.
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Dawg Talker
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Sorry charlie, the poor people don't pay ANYTHING in income tax. Perhaps you should research who pays taxes before spouting this rhetoric.
Right on ArchBold! Now these non-taxpayers will be getting an early Christmas bonus of $1000 dollars which you, and I, and all our fellow tax payers had taken out of our pay checks before we even saw it! Talk about Robin Hood syndrom...robbing the rich to pay the poor.
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Dawg Talker
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Either, my friend, either. I guarantee the "rich" pay more in income tax than the poor. Damn, I shouldn't even have to say that.........where has common sense gone? Where has looking at the proof gone?
And I will guarantee the "rich" pay more in sales tax as well. If you dispute that, I'll let you find the proof.
What the rich don't pay is interest. Just add up your mortgage payments and see how much that interest costs you. If you hold the note for thirty years you will end up paying three times what you initially paid for the property. If you don't see the property value increase 300% over the life of the loan then the middle class home owner works thirty years to pay off his house and ends up losing money. Home mortgages are one of the biggest drains on the middle class, unfortunately, most do not realize this.
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Dawg Talker
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I also thought it would take longer for people to realize what they voted for. Imagine how bad it's going to get if he doesn't pull things together -- and SOON. This may be the longest four years of our lives, folks. I am NOT impressed with Mr. Obama so far, are you?
DawgMichelle,
I work in the defense sector and I couldn't believe the number of people in my plant that fell for Barakus and the media rhetoric. BO had openly stated he was going to cut defense spending which would/will directly impact the flow of government defense contracts. This will directly impair my employers ability to fund and grow ongoing operations. Hopefully my plant will be OK, but when the shiat hits the fan, and people start losing their jobs and others start complaigning, I will simply ask who they voted for...that will awaken most to what it was they unleashed.
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Dawg Talker
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The only reason people get lost in thought is because it's unfamiliar territory.
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Legend
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J/C
Fox News reporting that nobody in the House of Representatives or the Senate even read the bill. Nobody even knows what's in it, but that didn't stop it from passing both houses of Congress - thanks to 3 wretched Rino's (Republican In Name Only) in the Senate and a whole bunch of Democrats who just can't wait to get their hands in your wallet.
Unbelievable.
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Legend
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I find that highly unbelievable as that seems extremely irresponsible. How can congress people approve something of this magnitude and visibility that they have not read ?
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I'd never take FoxNew (or CNN or MSNBC) as gospel but most congressmen/women get thier marching orders from the top of thier party. So it's not like they really wanted to read a bill that they were going to vote "Yay" on reguardless of what was in the bill. Do you really think any Dem. was going to oppose this? It would be political suicide.
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Legend
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Nice to know all of our representatives in Congress are owned by someone else. Why do I even bother voting.
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Legend
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Boehner had no problem voting for every Bush war initiative without reading it. Never read a word, just voted 'yes'. Now it's a problem?  He's right...unfortunately he's also part of the problem.
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Legend
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Boehner had no problem voting for every Bush war initiative without reading it. Never read a word, just voted 'yes'. Now it's a problem?
The invasion of Iraq was debated in Congress for well over a year, was supported bi-partisanly in both Houses of Congress, spent about half as much in 6 years as the Stimulus Bill does, and arguably did a lot more good than the Stimulus Bill will do.
The Stimulus Bill went to a floor vote in both Houses within 18 hours of coming out of conference, with only limited debate, before the Bill was read by all the representatives, before even a draft of the Bill appeared online for the public to read.
Bipartisan support for the Invasion of Iraq resolution totalled 371 votes in both Houses of Congress, with 261 Republicans and 110 Democrats voting yes.
Bipartisan support for the Stimulus bill totals 306 in both Houses of Congress, with 303 Democrats and 3 Republicans voting yes.
The Invasion of Iraq was debated over a year, with all concerned having ample time and access to the inteligence that supported that action. It was truly bipartisan, with all points of view heard and all proposed amendments voted on.
The Stimulus Act of 2009 was debated for less than 18 hours, before any member of either House could even read the bill.
The Democrats own this monstrous POS.
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Waiting on a response from PDR...NOT holding my breath for it though.
Excellent post and smackdown on those who now will say "Well, look what Bush did" every time BO breaks a "promise"...which has been almost daily since the inauguration.
What happened to Mr. Change?
I feel duped already...and I did not vote for the guy.
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Legend
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President Obama has been warning about an impending catastrophy unless action was taken right now. No time for debate about a bill that will total nearly a TRILLION dollars, no time to even read the freaking thing, oh no, we must act NOW. So they pass the bill in both Houses and it goes right to Obama to sign because its really, really urgent, right? Its so urgent you wouldn't believe it, because the sky is falling as we speak, right? Wrong. It waits until Monday so it can be signed on Presidents' Day ... for symbolic reasons, dontcha know.
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That will make him look better to some. What a sad, sad country this has become.
#gmstrong #gmlapdance
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The invasion of Iraq was debated in Congress for well over a year, was supported bi-partisanly in both Houses of Congress
...and still no one actually read the documents.
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and arguably did a lot more good than the Stimulus Bill will do.
Neither will do any good for our country...the debate will be over which was more damaging.
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The Invasion of Iraq was debated over a year, with all concerned having ample time and access to the inteligence that supported that action
And no one used that ample time or that access. That includes Mr. Hand-Out-Lobbyist-Checks-On-The-Floor-And-Cry-Like-A-Baby-Over-War-Spending-Bills Boehner.
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The Democrats own this monstrous POS.
The future descendants of the American people own this monstrous POS.
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Legend
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Excellent post and smackdown on those who now will say "Well, look what Bush did" every time BO breaks a "promise"...which has been almost daily since the inauguration.
This has nothing to do with BO. I don't like him, nor this package.
My post was about Boehner being the moron that he always has been.
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Poser
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You know no one read it how? You have a link or is this more of your astute opinion?
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The link you provided states that ther were senators that read the report. Hmmmm, guess that you were wrong even with the link you provided. Now, the question is, was this senator one of them that DIDN'T read the report.
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The link you provided states that ther were senators that read the report. Hmmmm, guess that you were wrong even with the link you provided.
Dude, you are a trip.
Six senators read the report. I've been crowing about that on this board for years.
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Now, the question is, was this senator one of them that DIDN'T read the report.
Boehner's not a senator, he's a Congressman, and no, neither him or anyone on his staff signed in and viewed the documents.
He must've been too busy handing out tobacco lobbyist checks on the House floor and crying like an actress whenever a war spending bill came up.
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LOL, same old Phil. YOU posted:
"and still no one actually read the documents. "
Now you are calling someone else a "trip", "dude", because they questioned your statement....which you proved yourself was wrong.
Oh, and a link to Boehner not having read the report? You link says a "handful" of Congressmen resd the report and doens't list which ones.
I'm sorry you hate that people question your statements....even the false ones, but if you are going to state incorrect informatin as fact, you will ge questioned, "dude".
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Legend
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LOL, same old Phil. YOU posted:
"and still no one actually read the documents. "
That was non-literal, and everyone on this board knows it. I've been complaining about the 'six senators' for ages.
Here's me over a year ago:
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Take a look at who was properly informed in our government before voting for this war...it was six senators and if I'm not mistaken a handful of congressmen. And that only concludes that they sat down to read it.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/showflat.php?...true#Post371971
Quit resorting to semantics.
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You all are here complaining the Reps did this, the Dems did this, yet you fail to see your doing the exact same thing, arguing along party lines. Let's just all work together to solve this issue and quit all the useless bickering, it hasn't got us anywhee yet, so why think it will any time soon. 
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
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Legend
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You all are here complaining the Reps did this, the Dems did this, yet you fail to see your doing the exact same thing, arguing along party lines.
How am I arguing along party lines? 
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So, people are supposed to remember you whining over a year ago? You ALWAYS whine and complain so this wouldn't stand out. You repetatedly said two or three times that "no one" read the bill and ONLY stated the truth when I asked you about it and then mentioned your link showed you were wrong. Don't blame me that you posted something false and are now saying it wasn't what you meant. Someone with your vast intelligence and knowledge of all the government issues should understand that using hyperbole to make a point isn't always the best tactic. Of course, you try to defelct it onto someone that called you on your false statement by saying they're arguing semantics You made a claim and I asked for proof of it because I didn't believe it. You proved your statement was wrong. Instead of simply stating you didn't mean it literally, you attack. Typiical Phil.
I still wish you would answer why you don't run for office. You have so much more knowledge and plans for the country than those running it and no one is even close to being able to do anything right. Why are you behind a computer whining on a messageboard. With all that you could do, this country would be perfect.
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I still wish you would answer why you don't run for office.
"I truly believe of all the people in the whole country who could not win an election, I am very near the top of the list. Somewhere between Father Geoghan and Al Gore. And the reason is, I have at one time or another, insulted everybody - and I'm proud of that. Politically incorrect means not political, not like a politician, and to give you an idea how unlike a politician I am, I don't even have a wife to cheat on. So when people say, why don't you run for office?...Folks, let me sum it up for you: I think religion is bad and drugs are good. I think America causes cancer, longevity is less important than fun, and young people should be discouraged from voting. I think stereotypes are true, abstinence is a perversion, Bush's lies are worse than Clinton's and there's nothing sexy about being old or pregnant. I think September 11th changed nothing and if I had known the onset of war would add 100 points to George Bush's IQ, I would have started one. I think pornography stops rape, AIDS ribbons are stupid, and flag burning makes me feel patriotic. I think death is not the worst thing that can happen to you, people have too much self-esteem, and being drunk is funny. I think children are not innocent, God doesn't write books, and Jesus wasn't a Republican. I'm for Mad Cow disease and against suing tobacco companies. I think girls hate each other, you have to lie to stay married, women's sports are boring and the Olympics are gay."
~Bill Maher
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Let's just all work together to solve this issue and quit all the useless bickering ...
How can we do that when the party in power closes debate? Republicans didn't block debate during the run-up to Iraq, but the Democrats sure as hell did ram this bill down all our throats.
Why was a vote necessary on Friday when the president won't sign it until Monday?
Why couldn't there have been at least 1 day for the conference bill to be studied, absorbed, and then debated in full sessions of both Houses before voting?
I'll tell you why; because the Democrats and the 3 Rino's that joined them knew that this bill couldn't stand scrutiny in the full light of day.
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How can we do that when the party in power closes debate? Republicans didn't block debate during the run-up to Iraq, but the Democrats sure as hell did ram this bill down all our throats.
You're right in your rebuke of the Dems...but don't pretend like the Republicans haven't been doing the same for a long time...remember Bush's constant 'we need to pass this thing now or our kids will die' crap?
I'm really tired of people acting like these are two vastly different parties.
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I'll tell you why; because the Democrats and the 3 Rino's that joined them knew that this bill couldn't stand scrutiny in the full light of day.
Yup.
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Other people are tired of you comparing apples to oranges, too. Did Bush pushthe vote for going to war in 18 hours? Yes or no? The answer is no, so it was different. Of course, you couldn't complain without the hyperbole and comparing things that were different and igrnoring said differences. 
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I see little difference between Bush trying to quickly pass bunk and Obama trying to quickly pass bunk.
And stop saying 'other people' when you mean 'I'.
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You think I'm the only one tired of reading your slanted stuff? Please, read the replies about what you spew  Just so we're clear, you don't see a difference between rushing a bill through in EIGHTEEN HOURS and having a bill be debated for almost a YEAR?!?!?!?! Ummmm, ok, whatever you say, Phil. There's no difference there.
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You think I'm the only one tired of reading your slanted stuff? Please, read the replies about what you spew
Coming from the laughingstock of political threads.
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Just so we're clear, you don't see a difference between rushing a bill through in EIGHTEEN HOURS and having a bill be debated for almost a YEAR?!?!?!?!
A year? Where do you come up with this stuff?
Do you know how many bunk war spending bills have been passed through quickly in "emergency" sessions? I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure they rushed two through in one month back in '06.
A year...seriously, do you read newspapers? 
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When there was a vote to go to war, was the bill available for review and for debate? Yes, there was. You, however, refuse to accept that because it doesn't further your whining. The only laughingstock of political threads is the one guy that whines and cries no matter what is done or not done, invents things to post and tries to pass them off as fact, and then plays the martyr and tries to insult people tha have a clue. That is you, "dude". You have never proven any of your accusations. You have twisted arguements when called on your statements. You have even posted lnks that DEBUNK the crap you spew (as on this very thread). Yet, in your own little world, you can call someone else a laughing stock.  Yes, I read the newspaper.....I just don't read it like you do....with tin foil wraped around my head and pretend I know more than anyone else on the face of the earth. Keep ranting, Phil. Anyone above the age of 9 realizes that you have once again tried to distort reality to fit your litle agenda. The difference between the vote to go to war and the vote on this stimulus bill is PLAIN to anyone that can look at anything objectively. That's what was being discussed, yet you try to twist things as usual.
Last edited by CoachB; 02/14/09 05:47 PM.
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When there was a vote to go to war, was the bill available for review and for debate? Yes, there was. You, however, refuse to accept that because it doesn't further your whining.
No, it's because that's not what I'm talking about...I'm talking about war spending bills.
I said this to Dave:
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...remember Bush's constant 'we need to pass this thing now or our kids will die' crap?
In case you missed that, let's make it clear -- Bush's war spending bills - not the decision to go to war - were as hasty and rushed as this stimulus plan (although the war was equally as dumb and was certainly rushed along in haste). Both the stimulus and war funding packages are completely idiotic wastes of taxpayer money, and both presidents are using fear as a tool to get them through cleanly.
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You have never proven any of your accusations.
Are you serious? For how many years now have I been cleaning your clock with link after link after link that you have to worm out of with semantics?
I mean, it *just* happened...you made some smarmy comment asking if I could link the fact that no one read the intel...I give you a link showing that 6 senators and a handful of Congress read it and you twisted in the wind.
In fact, I don't think I've ever even seen you post a link.
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That's what was being discussed, yet you try to twist things as usual.
Do you realize that you're projecting or does it just kind of happen?
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And now here comes the anal intruder to really stick it up our poop shoots...how we will pay for all this...as if we didn't already know. An excerpt from www.foxnews.com as Obama changes focus to the budget deficit: Quote:
Along those lines, White House budget director Peter R. Orszag has committed to instituting tougher budget-discipline rules -- once the economy turns around. Those include a mandate that any "nonemergency" spending increases be offset by equal spending cuts or tax increases.
Yeah thats right TAX INCREASES! 
This will be the final nail in the coffin for the economy. Everyone that voted for BO start patting yourself on the back right now.
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If only we could live in your world, Phil. You admit that you said "no one" read the intel and then brag you posted a link showing that there were some that did READ THE INTEL. LOL, In your world, providing a link that says people read the intel proves "no one" read the intel. LOL, I didn't have to provide a lnk because I didn't post anything as fact, but if I did, I would actually post a lnk that said, you know, that I was right......not one that proves my statement false and then pretend it backs the false staement.
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I'm really tired of people acting like these are two vastly different parties.
Sorry Phil, they really are two vastly different parties. Its the difference between being in favor of equal opportunity or equal outcomes ... huge.
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Not trying to speak for Phil because he is quite capable of doing that himself. I just dont feel he meant literally " no one", I think that is why he is saying you are arguing semantics.
I guess the better way for him to have said it would have been, The majority of lawmakers did not read the bill. I find that disturbing, and one of the main reasons that disturbs me is that rather than read the bill and make a educated guess the guys are making up their minds based on what their political parties are telling them to do. They are voting based on what is best for their political careers, rather than what is best for the nation.
KING
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
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