Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
S
2nd String
OP Offline
2nd String
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
It is tough to judge Quinn based on stats. That's why it's going to be a tough decision for Mangini and Kokinis this offseason. I was just saying that statistically Quinn and Anderson are almost equal. I prefer Quinn because when he was at the helm the offense seemed to click better than when Anderson was at the helm. Granted it was for only three games and only one healthy game for Quinn but you gotta start somewhere.

Anderson definately has a stronger arm than Quinn. But in my opinion that is the only thing that Anderson has on Quinn. But like I said, it's going to be a tough decision for the men in charge. I'm hoping it's Quinn but if it's not I will support whoever it is. But if Mangini and Kokinis do decide it's Quinn and trade Anderson I think we can get a late first round to second round pick for him.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
I keep wondering if either fits what Mangini and Daboll want in a QB... I'm not saying neither does.. cause I don't know what they are planning. Of course, they may just have to keep the guy that most closely resembles what they want and live with it.


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,445
Quote:

I keep wondering if either fits what Mangini and Daboll want in a QB... I'm not saying neither does.. cause I don't know what they are planning. Of course, they may just have to keep the guy that most closely resembles what they want and live with it.




Dude...If we go the WCO variant based on what Weiss runs at ND and previously at New England...It's a hands down no-brainer who the QB of this team will be...It's really not even debateable at that point...

Anderson does not have the capability of throwing the underneath stuff on a consistent basis...END of STORY...

Quinn's got a Cap Friendly contract...Been in the league 2 years now...It's the PERFECT time to get him in as the #1 guy in Cleveland...

Mangini and Daboll can look at all the film they want...Quinn's the ONLY QB on this team that will come even CLOSE to being able to run any variance of a WCO...

Doesn't diminish Anderson's value one bit either...Other teams are looking for a vertical type QB...

And ANYONE stating Quinn's arm isn't NFL strength...Or he's a dink and dunker doesn't have a clue how things work...The dude can throw a rope 20 yards down the seam...And he can throw a rope 20 yards to the sidelines...HE'S DONE IT OVER AND OVER AT ND...Having him do it from the get go in the NFL is a sure fire way to ruin confidence...

Diam...I really didn't know there were that many College fans that DESPISE Notre Dame...Seriously...I've watched Dame since the Holtz days...What is it that creates such a DESPISE???...I understand Michigan...But ND???...WHY...Edumacate this ignorant one...


Go Browns!!!
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
S
2nd String
OP Offline
2nd String
S
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 198
Quote:

Dude...If we go the WCO variant based on what Weiss runs at ND and previously at New England...It's a hands down no-brainer who the QB of this team will be...It's really not even debateable at that point...




This is what I see happening. Mangini likes to run the ball and he already said he was impressed with Lewis. Whether or not that means anything we will see in due time. Having a first time OC is the wildcard and the reason we are guessing what direction we go offensively.

Quote:

Doesn't diminish Anderson's value one bit either...Other teams are looking for a vertical type QB...




That's why I laugh when people say the highest we can get for Anderson is a 4th or 5th round pick. A Pro Bowl and Starting Experience is better than anything a team can get in the draft.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Quote:

Dude...If we go the WCO variant based on what Weiss runs at ND and previously at New England...It's a hands down no-brainer who the QB of this team will be...It's really not even debateable at that point...





Dude, who's arguing with you?

Is that for sure what Daboll and Mangini are planning?

Quote:

I really didn't know there were that many College fans that DESPISE Notre Dame




That's really big news to me... I had no idea.... around here it's THE Ohio State University #1 and then ND... go figure.


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
M
mac Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Quote:

Yeah....welcome to the board since you've only been here for a little over 2 years.....




shep...got a bug up your butt?

You know damn well I was on this board when it was the Cleveland Browns board....then again, maybe your memory is not what you think it is...aging affects each person differently. ...

And will you look at that, shep...you've only been on this board a couple months more than me...lol... ....


FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL

Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Quote:

I keep wondering if either fits what Mangini and Daboll want in a QB... I'm not saying neither does.. cause I don't know what they are planning. Of course, they may just have to keep the guy that most closely resembles what they want and live with it.




It sounds like we'll be running something along the lines of a WCO. Which would fit Brady perfectly. DA's inconsistencies over the past couple of seasons leads me to think there's not going to be much competition here. DA is a vertical passer. He's been pretty inaccurate on the short stuff.


[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
lets add more to this....

TIM COUCH or KELLY HOLCOMB??


Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,229
Quote:



"you don't thow 29 TD passes in the NFL and be a bad bum QB"

Name we 1 QB in the NFL that did so that stunk?




Derek Anderson


Hunter + Dart = This is the way.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,532


#brownsgoodkarma
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,960
Quote:

It sounds like we'll be running something along the lines of a WCO.




well, I'm no guru, but anything resembling the WCO I'm somewhat familiar with doesn't sound like a strength of DA...


#GMSTRONG

“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan

"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,223
Egzacily.


[Linked Image from pic18.picturetrail.com]
"The Browns' defense is kicking mucho dupa."
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Quote:

Quote:

It sounds like we'll be running something along the lines of a WCO.




well, I'm no guru, but anything resembling the WCO I'm somewhat familiar with doesn't sound like a strength of DA...




Nope and its just about perfect for Quinn.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,224
Mac,

I think you got the wrong end of the stick there buddy.

Quote:

Seasontics....first...your new so welcome to the board...





That's what Shep was referring to. You welcomed someone to the board who has been registered here for 2 years.


#gmstrong
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
T
Legend
Offline
Legend
T
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,979
I think I agree with at least the first half of the post by Knight of Brown, I agree Derek is who I have more confidence in from watching games.
A quarterback is an on field leader of the offense, and when the other teams quarterback leads a team down the field and puts 7 points on the board, they have made a statement.

And when your quarterback takes revenge and immediately says NOTHING is going to stop us from driving the length of the field and putting 7 points on the board to take your score away, and does it. I call that an ANSWER!

I've seen Derek Anderson answer another teams drive twice, I've not seen Quinn do it. Until I see Quinn Answer with scoring drives I'm not going to say I have confidence, If DA goes away and Quinn has to start, well then what choice do we have but to watch and hope he gets his act together. The team without DA just has one more hole in talent drought. I don't beleive you can get a winning season in March, but you can give one up.
The Browns have scrapped their roster almost a half dozen times since 94 and it hasn't worked the next season, Their about to do it again? and I'm supposed to be looking forward to next season?

You are right my posts never add up.


Can Deshaun Watson play better for the Browns, than Baker Mayfield would have? ... Now the Games count.
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
M
mac Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Quote:

Mac,

I think you got the wrong end of the stick there buddy.

Quote:

Seasontics....first...your new so welcome to the board...





That's what Shep was referring to. You welcomed someone to the board who has been registered here for 2 years.




Rid...the info available on the board showed the guy had been here a little over a year with only 103 posts...a newbe, especially in terms of the great QB "debates" (wars) that have taken place on this board.

Thus, my reference to him as a newbe...

Had seasontickets info showed him as a longtime member with thousands of posts, I would not have been trying to advise him on the danger of QB comparison threads.

Had Shep addressed the issue differently, I would not have responded to him as I did.

Thus, respect must be shown in order to receive respect back, is the way I approach those who lurk waiting to take shots at me.

My post to seasontics was not disrespectful in anyway, was it?...regardless of the info available on him.

Had shep said what you did...like...hey mac, seasontics used to be registered under a different name, thus he's not a newbe...I would have thanked him for the info.

Riddler...I thank you for the info and ...

Seasontickets...I meant no disrespect to you and was simply going on the info available....QB comparison discussions have a way of erupting into WWIII...and I'm sure you know that....sorry if I offended you in anyway....mac


FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL

Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
Actually...seasontics has been around for a LONG time...he just took a time out...I remember him from 6-7 years ago when i first jumped in to this madness.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
M
mac Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
M
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 13,842
Peen...when "this" board was established after the Browns abandoned the format, the question was asked if the info such as post numbers and date of registration could be forwarded and the answer was NO.

Some people signed up to this board immediately, some did not, thus some of the old usernames changed in the shuffle. Those chosing to stay with the Browns new board for some time before signing up to this board are now shown as newbes.

I don't spend nearly as much time on this board as I used.

Thinking back, Peen, I remember when you first came to this message board when it was the Browns board...you may not remember it but I was the first person to call you "Peenie".

How do I remember that, you ask...because I got in trouble with a certain moderator at the time because he thought I was being "suggestive".

I'm not positive, but I believe my first great "disagreement" with an "oldtimer" had to do making a HCing change...how dare a "newbe" like me challenge the oldtimers....I laugh about it now.


FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL

Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
What are you talking about?


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,217
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,217
Quote:

Diam...I really didn't know there were that many College fans that DESPISE Notre Dame...Seriously...I've watched Dame since the Holtz days...What is it that creates such a DESPISE???...I understand Michigan...But ND???...WHY...Edumacate this ignorant one...




It was that arrogant assed national TV contract. Since I AM a ND hater I figured I'd answer.



But once a player is drafted, who cares where he was drafted from? At that point they're a Brown.

Well, to everyone but BE.



Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
The same reason alot of college fans hate OSU or USC.........they are consistent winners. Teams that do it over the long haul tend to ... people off, and ND has done that. Sure they are down right now, but within the next 10 years they will be competing for NCs again, and that irratates fans of lesser universities who have never or will never be able to duplicate that kind of long period success.

As far as the thread goes, DA is gone and anybody without an agenda can see that.


Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
Just hope Mangini doesn't have a 'agenda"


DA will be gone...at least 98% of me says so.

There are a few teams thinking QB....Chicago,Minnesota,Carolina,Tampa....maybe a few others....one of them is going to get shut out of drafting a guy they like.....if they like any at all.

Depending on where the team drafts, we will probably get a 2nd or 3rd for DA.....seems high, but once a team starts to realize they don't have a viable qb option, they start to make moves even if it is for a possible viable option


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
B
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
B
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,212
the supply and demand factor favors the browns this time The college qb's suck this year....

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
B
Legend
Offline
Legend
B
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 39,681
And a few of those teams aren't ready to call it rebuilding with a rookie qb...a few will take a shot on a young vet who might step in and help them win right away.


If everybody had like minds, we would never learn.

GM Strong




[Linked Image]
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
On DA going...I think we will be paying the 5 mil bonus.

So I can very well see us keeping him here as the reliable backup if teams don't give us fair market value.

Fair Market value for even what Diam described DA as - something along the lines as a traveling Starter or sticking with one team as a Good Backup. Well those guys get 2nd round picks. So if push came to shove we keep DA here for a year as the reliable backup and hope that his fragile ego isn't shot if he gets a chance to start.

But once the draft is over teams have less regard for their 2010 draft picks. So he could go to a team who loses a QB in Training camp and they have Urgency. You never know.

JMHO


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,109
Quote:

But once the draft is over teams have less regard for their 2010 draft picks.




You know what, I wouldn't be opposed to trading DA for a fairly high pick in '10. It's going to be a SWEET year for 3-4 d-linemen.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Quote:

Diam...I really didn't know there were that many College fans that DESPISE Notre Dame...Seriously...I've watched Dame since the Holtz days...What is it that creates such a DESPISE???...I understand Michigan...But ND???...WHY...Edumacate this ignorant one...




The list is endless ... there are alot of reasons to hate ND ... were like the Yankees in baseball (except we don't BUY are championships or CREATE UN LEVEL playing fields .. ) ... heres a list of the reasons ... for some its just one ... for others its 3 or 4 and for aothers its all of them .. *L* .... usually when U decide to start hating us everything we do pi$$e$ U off so the list just gets bigger and bigger .. *L* ... these are in no particular order ...

1. Were the most storied program in the history of college football ... were the GOLD STANDARD ... were way down right now but in the HISTROY of the game we still DOMINATE in just about every category ... other schools will have there era's .. (The U ... USC ... Fla ... Free Shoes U ....) ... us ... were always in the SPOTLIGHT ...

most NC's ..
most Hiesman trophy winners (I believe) ...
2nd in wins (soon to be first as D-Rod may not be the answer the wolves thought he'd be .. ) ...
the most ATTENTION ... were the highest profile school out there and WE'VE STUNK for the better part of 15 years ... we've had a few blips but for the most part we've STUNK ... and thats just makes the HATERS EVEN MADDER ...

2. National Schedule .... we play all over the country .... we play in Cali (either stanford or USC) every year .... we now play in Texas every year ... we now play in Fla every year ... plus we play in the East and your neck of the woods every year ...

WERE NATIONAL .... like U guys ... why would the folks in the SEC or pac 10 or Big 12 hate U ... they may see U once a decade ... the folks in EVERY AREA are treated to us EVERY SINGLE YEAR ...

and where ever we play were that schools BIGGEST GAME OF THE YEAR ... everyone knows who ND is and what they stand for ... and everyone wants to beat us ...

U guys are a good example here also .... I know your hatred of Michigan and I know U want to kick there ass every year ... but thats the point .. U play them every year ... when we come to your town every 20 years or so .. ITS SPECIAL ... its DIFFERENT ... and guys .. when we come and pretty much where ever we go .. the ATTENDANCE RECORD at where ever we play is BROKEN EVERY SINGLE DAMM TIME ...

plus ... and I know U guys won't admit this .. but when U play us .. it is not an inter sectional rivalry game that folks in your area get all hyped up over but no one else in the country really gives a rats ass about it .... when U play us it is a NATIONAL GAME .... like this year and last with the Condums and the 2 years before that with the Longhorns .... but were ND and that makes it BIGGER ...

3. Our TV contract ... folks are very jealous of that .. they call us greedy and not team players ... that just makes no sense and has me *LMAO* when I hear that .... just come out and admit it pi$$es U off cause we can do it and U can't ...

4. were and Independant ... again nuttin more than jealousy ..

5. Hype/Over rated ... ND sells ... we sell news papers, magazines, TV .. we travel well .... so were always over rated in the pre-season polls and mags ... we get invites to BCS bowls we don't really deserve (in 05 we deserved it ... in 06 ... NOT A SHOT IN HELL ... ) .... and we get invites to BOWLS we don't deserve at all levels ... if were deserving a level 3 bowl we'll go to a level 2 bowl ... if were deserving a level 4 bowl (one played on a Tuesday night in the fist week of dec ... *L*) .. we'll go to a level 3 bowl ...

were like the guy that gets to go to first class for free while the rest of U toil in coach ... and people HATE THAT .... for one simple reason ... THERE JEALOUS ...

6. We do things the RIGHT WAY ..... Randy Moss wanted to come to ND ... WE WOULDN'T LET HIM ... everyone school in the country then wanted him ... then he got in trouble 3 or 4 more times after we SENT HIM PACKING before most of the rest of the schools int he country told him to go blow ...

A kid at ND got caught with a joint in his ashtray ... arrested for a mis deamenor ... he was KICKED OUT OF SCHOOL for a year ... he went to a local school and then went back to ND ... but he was BOOTED for a joint in his car ..

We have kids not in school every single year for academic ineligibilty that at other schools they would prolly be in the top 10% of there classes ... *L* .. last year it was a kid from Pitt ... Darrin Walls ... he would have been a Jr. and our #1 CB ... he did not qualify for the fall semester ... he went back to Pitt and went to school locally ... he is now back at ND .. but HE MISSED THE SEASON .... and like I said .. this kid more than likely had a GPA that met and surpassed NCAA standards .. but he did not live up to ND'S STANDARDS and PAID THE PRICE ....

we have the kid that started in his place now back home in SC cause he became in eligible .. reports are that he will back for the fall ...

PEOPLE HATE that we do things the right way ... guys like Clarrett would have never sniffed the air on our campus ... yet he won U guys a NC so its all good ... and PEOPLE HATE THAT FACT ... either that or they think were STUPID cause they believe WINNING FOOTBALL GAMES is more IMPORTANT than trying to teach kids to be MEN and to do the RIGHT THINGS ....

either way .... they should be applauding us for what we do ... and not HATING ON US ...

7. Alot of ND fans are ARROGANT and RUB PEOPLE THE WRONG WAY ... and that includes me .. I hate the ND fans that act like there beter than other folks .. no place for that ..

I have never said a word about being "houlier than thou" to anyone on this board or to folks I meet ... I did in here cause U asked ... and thats how i feel ... but alot of ND fans go around beating people over the head like were better than U ... and thats WRONG ...

thats the one thing were hated for I agree with .. *L* ...

anyhow .. thats a start ...

theres alot of reasons to hate ND ... and some of them are valid, somd just human nature and some spurn from PURE JEALOUSY ...

picka category or two and join in .. its a good time to be a HATER ... well it was a good time to be a hater ... thats about to change ....

HERE COME THE IRISH!!!!!!!!!!

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
"were like the Yankees in baseball (except we don't BUY are championships or CREATE UN LEVEL playing fields"

Don't stop at buying (although just what is recruiting???)

But how bout you don't WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS period... lol

Well its been 20 years since the last one - not exactly Yankeesque.

And don't think I'm a Yankee fan...as I am not.

I think the National TV contract, the fact that ND has held themselves on a pedestal to join a Conference as in they didn't - while their Basketball program and others did.

ND get those national games cause of the draw they have Money wise - no taking away from that.

Always wondered why you were a ND fan. I mean not having a big program near me growing up I was always fond of Oklahoma and Penn State myself. But nowhere on the level you are with ND...if you Irish I could even understand it...

JMHO tough times - I'd even have to say its tougher right now than being a Brown's fan.


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Quote:

Don't stop at buying (although just what is recruiting???)




And this is exactly what I'm talking about DnD ....

tabber at ND we do things the right way ... we do not lower our sandards to let "border line" kids in ... and when I say OUR STANDARDS I mean OUR STANDARDS ....

as OUR STANDARDS are MUCH HIGHER THAN THE NCAA'S STANDARDS ...

this reluctance to LOWER OUR STANDARDS is one of the things that KILL US on Saturday afternoons ... hell tabber .. the proof is in the pudding .. Lou Holz who LOVES ND with all his heart told Urban Meyer that if he wanted to put himself in the best situation to win he should take the U of F job (and Meyer always said that ND was his DREAM JOB) ... and why??? it was simple ... ABILITY TO RECRUIT ... Lou said U had a much LARGER POOL to recruit from because ND's ACADEMIC and ETHICS standards eliminated over 1/2 of the BEST PLAYERS IN THE COUNTRY EVERY SINGLE YEAR ... and recruiting is like sales ... a pure numbers game ....

U guys can make up and believe what ever U want .. BUT THAT IS THE TRUTH and there is only one reason a guy like Holtz would say that and that Meyer(who said that ND was his dream job) would heed his advice ... there is rumors floating around that Meyer actually told ND if they allowed him " 2 or 3 exceptions" a year he would go to SB ... i have NO CLUE if thats true or not ... but it certainly makes sense ...

we do not LIE to kids ... we do not BRIBE KIDS .... we just don't do it ... If u come to ND your going to go to classes .. your going to get NO PERKS .. NONE .. we do not have atheletic dorms or seperate cafeteria's .. you live, sleep and eat with the student population ... YOUR GOING to work hard and get no special treatment be it in the class room or outside of it ..

nd makes mistakes like every school ... but WERE WAY ABOVE BOARD and do things the RIGHT WAY ....

and that includes with recruiting ... so no clue why U would throw that zinger in there ... other than you just throw us in with the rest out of IGNORANCE or for some reason your JEALOUS ...

Quote:

the fact that ND has held themselves on a pedestal to join a Conference as in they didn't - while their Basketball program and others did




How do we hold ourselves up on a pedastal?? .... where did that come from??? were a NATIONAL PROGRAM when it comes to football .... and for NOW we can stay that way ... WHY WOULD WE NOT??? ...

I don't get it .. was our football program suppose to join a conference because our other programs did?? ... is that how it works ....

tabber .... OTHERS PUT US ON A PEDASTAL ... thats why we can STAY AN INDEPENDANT in football ... we stood an independant for a reason .. and a big part of that was BECAUSE WE COULD ...

don't blame ND for that ... were a NATIONAL PROGRAM ... for now anyhow .. when we have to joing a conference and that time is drawing near .. as an ND fan I will be bummed ... but i won't be upset at and blaming others and act BITTER and make statments about us putting ourselves on a "pedastal" for no unfounded reasons ...

Its not hard to be an ND fan bro .. U get used to living with the target on your back and all the hatred and jealousy from others ... but thats OK .. cause I love ND for what they stand for and how they do things ... its a refreshing change in todays society ....

I became a ND fan becuase I admired what they stood for even at a young age ... that and the fact my dad would have beat me if I didn't become one ...

HERE COME THE IRISH!!!!!!!!




Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
Hall of Famer
Online
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
And don't forget the preferential rules to get ND into the BCS at the end of each season.

Diam - It's the whole favoritism thing. Unfair playing field gives ND certain priviledges.


Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
preferential rules??? .. *LOL* ...

the rules don't change .. ND either qualifies or they don't ... now more teams qualify than there is BCS bowl spots .. and if ND QUALIFIES there GOING ... PERIOD ...

in 06 we did go to a BCS bowl when we didn't deserve it .. the day the season ended I said exaclty that .. WE WOULD GO TO A BCS BOWL EVEN THOUGH WE DID NOT DESERVE IT ..

but dude .. WE QUALIFIED .. we had the minimum # of wins and we were in the top 12 (i believe) in the final BCS poll .. that means WE QUALIFIED ... PERIOD ...

U see DnD this is exactly what i mean ... Jester is 100% we recieved FAVOROTISM (prefferential treatment would be a better phrase .. buts its close enough) ... but he also says THE RULES WERE CHANGED (BROKEN) to allow us in .. AND THATS JUST WRONG ...

NO RULES WERE MANIPULATED OR CHANGED .... we QUALIFIED ... PERIOD ...

we were picked because were ND .... and NO WAY DID WE DESERVE TO GO ...

and Jester ... I did MENTION THAT .. it was one of my points as to why FOLKS LIKE U HATE US ....




Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
Hall of Famer
Online
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
http://www.bcsfootball.org/bcsfb/eligibility

BCS Selection Procedures


57 days ago



Bowl Championship Series

Automatic Qualification, At-Large Eligibility and Selection Procedures, 2007-2010 Games
Automatic Qualification


1. The top two teams in the final BCS Standings shall play in the National Championship Game.

2. The champions of the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-10 and Southeastern conferences will have automatic berths in one of the participating bowls after the 2008 through 2013 regular seasons.

3. The champion of Conference USA, the Mid-American Conference, the Mountain West Conference, the Sun Belt Conference or the Western Athletic Conference will earn an automatic berth in a BCS bowl game if either:


A. Such team is ranked in the top 12 of the final BCS Standings, or,
B. Such team is ranked in the top 16 of the final BCS Standings and its ranking in the final BCS Standings is higher than that of a champion of a conference that has an annual automatic berth in one of the BCS bowls.

No more than one such team from Conference USA, the Mid-American Conference, the Mountain West Conference, the Sun Belt Conference, and the Western Athletic Conference shall earn an automatic berth in any year. (Note: a second team may be eligible for at-large eligibility as noted below.) If two or more teams from those conferences satisfy the provisions for an automatic berth, then the team with the highest finish in the final BCS Standings will receive the automatic berth, and the remaining team or teams will be considered for at-large selection if it meets the criteria.

4. Notre Dame will have an automatic berth if it is in the top eight of the final BCS Standings .

5. If any of the 10 slots remain open after application of provisions 1 through 4, and an at-large team from a conference with an annual automatic berth for its champion is ranked No. 3 in the final BCS Standings, that team will become an automatic qualifier, provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game.

6. If any of the 10 slots remain open after application of provisions 1 through 5, and if no team qualifies under paragraph No. 5 and an at-large team from a conference with an annual automatic berth for its champion is ranked No. 4 in the final BCS Standings, that team will become an automatic qualifier provided that no at-large team from the same conference qualifies for the national championship game.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At-Large Eligibility


If there are fewer than 10 automatic qualifiers, then the bowls will select at-large participants to fill the remaining berths. An at-large team is any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible and meets the following requirements:


A. Has won at least nine regular-season games, and
B. Is among the top 14 teams in the final BCS Standings.


No more than two teams from a conference may be selected, regardless of whether they are automatic qualifiers or at-large selections, unless two non-champions from the same conference are ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in the final BCS Standings.



If fewer than 10 teams are eligible for selection, then the Bowls can select as an at-large team any Football Bowl Subdivision team that is bowl-eligible, has won at least nine regular-season games and is among the top 18 teams in the final @CS Standings subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15-18, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.


If expansion of the pool to 18 teams does not result in 10 teams eligible for selection, then the pool shall be expanded by blocks of 4 teams until 10 eligible teams are available subject to the two-team limit noted above and also subject to the following: (1) if any conference has two or more teams in the top 14, then two of those teams must be selected and (2) from the teams ranked 15 or lower, a bowl can select only a team from a conference that has fewer than two teams in the top 14.

Relative to the two preceding paragraphs, all teams ranked in the top 14, other than those from conferences which have already had two teams selected, must be included in the bowl selections.


Note: in order to participate in a BCS Bowl game, a team (i) must be eligible for post-season play under the rules of the NCAA and, if it not an independent, under the rules of its conference and (ii) must not have imposed sanctions upon itself prohibiting participation in a post-season game for infractions of the rules of the NCAA or the rules of its conference.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Team-Selection Procedures


The bowls will select their participants from two pools: (1) automatic qualifiers, all of which must be selected, and, (2) at-large teams, if fewer than 10 teams qualify automatically. The following sequence will be used when establishing pairings:

1. The top two teams in the final BCS Standings will be placed in the National Championship Game ("NCG").

2. Unless they qualify to play in the NCG, the champions of selected conferences are contractually committed to host selected games:


Atlantic Coast Conference-Orange Bowl
Big Ten Conference-Rose Bowl
Big 12 Conference-Fiesta Bowl
Pac-10 Conference-Rose Bowl
Southeastern Conference-Sugar Bowl

3. If a bowl loses a host team to the NCG, then such bowl shall select a replacement team from among the automatic-qualifying teams and the at-large teams before any other selections are made. If two bowls lose host teams to the NCG, each bowl will get a replacement pick before any other selections are made. In such case, the bowl losing the No. 1 team gets the first replacement pick, and the bowl losing the No. 2 team gets the second replacement pick. If the Rose Bowl loses both the Big Ten and Pac-10 champions to the NCG, it will receive two replacement picks.

A bowl choosing a replacement team may not select any of the following:


A. A team in the NCG;
B. The host team for another BCS Bowl;
C. When two bowls lose host teams, then the bowl losing the number one team may not select a replacement team from the same conference as the number two team, unless the bowl losing the number two team consents.

4. After steps No. 1, 2 and 3 have been completed, any bowl with an unfilled slot shall select a team from the automatic qualifiers and/or at-large teams in the following order:


A. The bowl played on the date nearest to the National Championship Game (for 2009, Fiesta Bowl) will pick first;
B. The bowl played on the date second-nearest to the National Championship Game (for 2009, Sugar Bowl) will pick second;
C. The bowl hosting the game that is played in the time slot immediately after the Rose Bowl game (for 2009, Orange Bowl) will pick third.

The rotation noted in paragraphs A, B and C is as follows:
January 2007 games: Sugar, Orange, Fiesta
January 2008 games: Orange, Fiesta, Sugar
January 2009 games: Fiesta, Sugar, Orange
January 2010 games: Orange, Fiesta, Sugar

All teams earning automatic berths must be selected.

5. After completion of the selection process as described in Paragraph Nos. 1-4, the conferences and Notre Dame may, but are not required to, adjust the pairings taking into consideration the following :

A. whether the same team will be playing in the same bowl game for two consecutive years;
B. whether two teams that played against one another in the regular season will be paired against one another in a bowl game;
C. whether the same two teams will play against each other in a bowl game for two consecutive years; and
D. whether alternative pairings may have greater or lesser appeal to college football fans as measured by expected ticket sales for the bowls and by expected television interest, and the consequent financial impact on Fox and the bowls.

The pairings may not be altered by removing the Big 10 Champion or Pac-10 champion from the Rose Bowl.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Tie-Breaking Procedure


The following steps will be used to resolve any ties in the standings after the computation is carried out to full decimal points:

1. Look to head-to-head result;

2. If the tie is not resolved by paragraph No. 1, then evaluate results against the highest-ranked common opponent in the BCS standings;

3. If the tie is not resolved by paragraph Nos. 1-2, then calculate tied teams' place in BCS Standings using all six computer providers (i.e., do not throw out the high and low computer rankings) and the Harris and Coaches polls;

4. If the tie is not resolved by paragraph Nos. 1-3, then draw.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


BCS Standings


The Harris Interactive College Football Poll, USA Today Coaches Poll and computer rankings each comprise one-third of the BCS Standings. To derive the three percentages, each team is assigned an inverse point total (25 for No. 1, 24 for No. 2, etc.)

The two poll percentages are calculated by dividing each team's point total by a maximum 2850 possible points (Harris) and 1525 possible points (USA Today). The computer rankings percentage is calculated by dropping the highest and lowest ranking for each team and then dividing the remaining total by 100 (the maximum possible points).

The BCS Average is calculated by averaging the percentage totals of the Harris Interactive Poll, USA Today Poll, and computer rankings. The teams' BCS Averages are ranked to produce the BCS Standings.

The six computer ranking providers are Anderson & Hester, Richard Billingsley, Colley Matrix, Kenneth Massey, Jeff Sagarin and Peter Wolfe. Each computer ranking provider accounts for schedule strength within its formula.

The BCS Standings are used for:


* Determining the two teams that qualify to play in the BCS National Championship Game;


* Determining any other automatic qualifiers; and,


* Establishing the pool of eligible teams for at-large selection.

The BCS Standings are released eight times each season, including the final Standings on selection Sunday. The National Football Foundation compiles and releases the Standings each week.

Harris Interactive College Football Poll


To provide the initial pool of potential panelists for the Harris Poll before the 2005 regular season, each Conference submitted the names of 30 qualified individuals; Harris Interactive randomly selected 10 panelists from among the names submitted by each Conference. Notre Dame submitted a list of six qualified individuals, from which Harris randomly selected three . Army and Navy together submitted a list of three qualified individuals from which Harris selected one.

When a person leaves the panel, the conference that originally nominated the individual nominates three others to take the spot, one of whom is randomly selected.

The first Harris poll is released on the last Sunday in September each season.

Standards for Future BCS Automatic Qualification


The champions of the Atlantic Coast, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-10 and Southeastern Conferences will have annual automatic qualification for a BCS game after the regular seasons of 2008 through 2013, based on mathematical standards of performance during the 2004-2007 regular seasons.

The 2008-2011 regular seasons will be evaluated under the same standards to determine if other conferences will have annual automatic qualification for the games after the 2012 and 2013 regular seasons. The champions of no more than seven conferences will have annual automatic berths.

If the BCS continues under the same or similar format, conferences will be evaluated on their performances during the 2010-2013 regular seasons to determine which conferences will have automatic qualification for the bowls that will conclude the 2014-2017 regular seasons.

The evaluation data includes the following for each conference (1) the ranking of the highest-ranked team in the final BCS standings each year, (2) the final regular-season rankings of all conference teams in the computer rankings used by the BCS each year and (3) the number of teams in the top 25 of the final BCS standings each year.

Conference agreements with bowls will continue. The Pac-10 and Big Ten champions will host the Rose Bowl if their teams are not in the BCS national championship game. Likewise, the Southeastern Conference champion will host the Sugar Bowl, ACC champion will host the Orange Bowl and Big 12 champion will host the Fiesta Bowl.


Look at the bold/underlined areas. To me that is preferential treatment for ND. What would you call it?


Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Quote:

Look at the bold/underlined areas. To me that is preferential treatment for ND. What would you call it?




I'd call it the RULES .... *LOL* .... WTF Jester .. how is it prefferential treatment ... I mean ... lets be realistic ... is ND not suppose to have paramaters to qualify ... there just suppose to be left at the whim of the committee .. oh wait .. if that was the case ... THEY'D GO EVERY YEAR cause of the $$$ .... se I guess we can't have that ...

the winners of the conferences in #3 only have to finish in the TOP 12 to AUTOMATICALLY QUALIFY ... ND has to finsih 4 SPOTS HIGHER ....

1st off why should the winner of ANY CONFERENCE be afforded the LUXURY of finishing 4 SPOTS LOWER than ND to automatically qualify .. and secondly just how in the hell is that "prefferential" treatment for ND ... if ANYTHNG its ALOT HARDER ON ND ...

just how in the hell is that prefferential treatment? .. GOOD LUCK EXPLAINING THAT ONE ...

and then u have the winners of the "major" conferences pretty much automatically qualyifing ... well how in the hell does the winner of the Big LEast and the ACC automatically qualify .... those CONFERENCES SUCK ASS NOW ....

THEY DON'T HAVE TO FINISH IN THE TOP 8 .... if they finish 9th there AUTOMATICALLY IN ... not ND .. yet ND is getting "prefferential" treatment ...

PLEASE .... come on Jester ... take a look at that with your non ND hater glasses on and get back to me ...

as for highlighted area #2 ...

1. It has nuttin to do with ACTUALLY SELECTING THE TEAMS ... so its irrelivent .

2. ND gets a say as there representative .. ALL THE OTHER TEAMS IN THE BCS BOWLS HAVE A SAY ALSO THROUGH THERE CONFERENCES ...

Everyone else should get a say but ND shouldn't because???????????? ...

as for your 3rd highlighted area

again .. why should ND NOT HAVE A REP like EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED??? ...

it seems U want ND to just be left out in the cold here ...

there actually given a HIGHER BAR to qualify than CONFERENCE WINNERS yet u call that prefferential treatment .... *L* ...

sorry dude ... but i really see no prefferential treatment here ... All I see is a HATER reaching for straws .... cause what u just pointed out makes no sense in regard to the point U wanna make ..

please explain to me how finishing 8th is EASIER than finishing 12th .. until u can do that .... you may need to re-asses your analysis of the situation ...




Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 65
C
Rookie
Offline
Rookie
C
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 65
Wow... I've seen QB threads turn into all kinds of crazy things over the years. But, an Irish debate?



Go Browns!!

RIP RK
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,217
P
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,217
He won't admit it even when you paste it, bold it and underline it.



But are you surprised by that? I would think not.


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
Hall of Famer
Online
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,826
1st - I am not a Notre Dame Hater. I could care less about them one way or the other. The only time I watch college football is to scout players for the Browns draft and occasionally OSU because I grew up a buckeye fan and when they are on national TV it is usually against good competition plus it's nice to watch something other than ACC sports which is on all the time down here in NC.

2nd - It doesn't say ND has to be in the top 8 it says if they are they get an automatic bid. As for having a parameter to qualify, why do the other independents not have similar parameters?

3rd - Their Harris poll representation is skewed. The conferences get 10 which works out to roughly one per team. ND gets 3. Army and Navy get one between them.


Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Good job Pitt ..... as usual U wonlt let the FACT ENTER INTO THINGS ...

by your logic ... it would be OK if they instituted new division winner rules for our conference that basically go like this ...

if C-town goes 11 - 5 ... and Pitt goes 10 - 6 ... PITT AUTOMATICALLY WINS THE DIVISION ... the Browns have to finish 2 games better than them ...

and according to U and Jester that would somehow show PREFFERENTIAL TREATMENT to the browns ...

what he copied and pasted CLEARLY SHOWS its harder for ND to AUTOMATICALLY QUALIFY than the conference winners ... CLEARLY ... not even you can deny that ... ITS IN BLACK AND WHITE ...

and yet somehow I won't admit sumptin ... .. I guess I'm guilty of not admitting Im an IDIOT that can't READ and actually UNDERTAND WHAT I;VE JUST READ .... if thats being a moron ... color me moronic ...

you've now entered into mac's category as a complete and utter waste of time ... I won't be wasting another second reading what u have to say much less responding to U ...

Its been nice knowing U bro ... Good Luck and Enjoy ...

SEE YA ..... Knock yourself out slamming me ... U and your "little" club can have a blast ... but i wonlt be wasting my time anymore reading it or aknowledging it ..




Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
*LOL* ..... REMARKABLE ..... ABSOLUTELY REMARKABLE .... what is wrong with U ... really .. what is wrong with U ...

I DID EXACTLY WHAT U SAID TO DO ... I FOLLOWED YOUR INSTRUCTIONS .... I went to the PARTS U BOLDED AND HIGHLIGHTED ...

here is the first thing U BOLDED AND HIGHLIGHTED .... in your first response to me regarding the contract ...

4. Notre Dame will have an automatic berth if it is in the top eight of the final BCS Standings .

1. that was in the first section ... THE AUTOMATIC BID SECTION ...

2. they have an AT LARGE BID SECTION .. witch I ASSume U found to be FINE ... BECAUSE U BOLDED AND UNDERLINED NONE OF THAT SECTION ...

I then go show u that its EASIER for other teams to AUTOMATICALLY QUALIFY (u know .. the SECTION U SENT ME TO ... *LOL*) .....

and dude .. U can't refute it ... unless U want to try and convince me finishing in 8th is EASIER TO FINISH IN 12TH ....

then u come back with this as some weak ass response to getting proven wrong ..

2nd - It doesn't say ND has to be in the top 8 it says if they are they get an automatic bid.

THEN WHY DID U SEND ME TO THE AUTOMATIC BID SECTION AND NOT THE AT LARGE SECTION ... WHY DID U BOLD NOR HIGHLIGHT NONE OF THE AT LARGE SECTION???

I DID WHAT U SAID ... EXACTLY WHAT U SAID .. AND NOW U WANNA CHANGE IT CAUSE U WERE PROVEN WRONG ...

sad ... thats for folks like Pit and mac ... IGNORE THE FACTS and make things up when your proven wrong to change the argument ...

as for Army and navy .. I have no clue .. MAYBE CASUE THERE WORSE THAN US ... *L* ...

I don't know ... but the ARGUMEN U MADE IS NOT SUPPOERTED BY THE CONTRACT U POSTED ... AND ESPECAILLY NOT BY THE SECTIONS U POINTED OUT ...

on #3 .. U got me .. there representation is skewed on the Harris Poll ... WOW ... good for U ... ND is "over represented" in something that adds up to 1/3rd of the POLLING PROCCESS .... WOW .. WHAT A HUGE ADVANTAGE ... were SLIGHTLY OVER REPRESENTED IN 1/3RD of the polls ....

and guess what ... the other 2 polls are voted on by coaches and sportswriters I believe ... and I wonder if the coaches or sportswriters from say Big 10 cities would VOTE FOR A MARGINAL BIG 10 TEAM OVER ND .... gee i WONDER .... *LOL* ...

PS. before U answer that ..... the BCS bolw payouts are "split" between all teams in the conferences .... so the COACHES and AD's at say Indiana and Purdue and all the other dredges of your conference have a PRETTY BIG FINANCIAL STAKE in voting for say Iowa or Wisconsin over some one like ND ...

but YA ... ND IS GAINING SOME HUGE ADVANTAGE cause there OVER REPRESENTED in the Harris while having no one else with a vested interest in them in the other two polls ..

I mean that certainly outweighs the fact we have to finish 4 SPOTS HIGHER THAN CONFERENCE WINNERS TO GET AN AUTOMATIC BID ...

OH and by the way menZa ..

U did not HIGHLIGHT OR BOLD any of the AT LARGE PORTION ... cause we pretty much have the SAME EXACT RULES AS THE CONFERENCE PLAYERS IN THAT SECTION ...

so good luck finding someone DUMB enough to believe that your argument has ANYTHING TO DO with the AT LARGE PORTION ...

No .. u posted something that PROVES its actually HARDER FOR ND ..... U got caught .. and now your BACK PEDALING like someone who just does not want to admit they were PROVEN WRONG ...

NICE TRY THOUGH ... the old tried and true strategy of CHANGING THE ARGUMENT when your dead wrong ...

unless ... again .... U can somehow prove to me that finishing 12th is harder than finishing 8th ..

Please ...

U see DnD .. the haters have no clue .... Jester proved me right and still can't admit it .. *L* ...




Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,030
It's the same reason OSU went to a BCS game this year when their were more deserving teams this year. Who sells tickets?? OSU or Texas Tech???...lol. The reason ND gets exceptions is because they are the most beloved/hated team in the NCAA (with USC and OSU steadily closing the gap might I add), and that sells a ton of tickets and guarantees a ton of ratings.

I'm not saying it's right, but the BCS bowls aren't in this to give a 2nd tier program (no matter how deserving) a feel good story at the end of the year...........their in it to make $$$....*shrug*.........some teams are going to get exceptions over other teams because of their ability to do that. People need to realize this is a business and get over it..........the idea that the Bowls are really based on rewarding deserving teams is naive.............it about the $$$$.


Against logic,the most effective armor is willful ignorance.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
P
PDR Offline
Legend
Offline
Legend
P
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,465
I don't follow college ball outside of prospects...but I didn't know ND still had haters...you'd think most people would just feel sorry for them by now.

It's kind of foolish to carry hate for a loser.

If there's anyone to hate on, I imagine it should be OSU...winners, undeserving, the most moronic and abrasive fans in all of college football (if not football)...methinks that the OSU fans see themselves in the mirror and don't like it.

Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Stats: Anderson & Quinn

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5